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MCU Spider-Man Upgrade

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Rogue_Forge

Rogue_Forge

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Ok lets put this simply

Captain Americas physical AP scales to 1.232 tons of TNT

Bucky is physically comparable

His bionic arm is far stronger than his physical strength (Bionic Arm > 1.232 tons of TNT)

Base Spider-Man stopped a hit from his arm with little effort (Spider-Man = or above Bionic-Arm >1.232 tons of TNT)

Iron Spider is stronger than base Spider-Man (Iron Spider>Spider-Man = or above Bionic-Arm >1.232 tons of TNT)

I don't know how many times Peter needs to upscale to get a strength upgrade that's less than 2x but I think he already hit it, at least with his iron spider suit.

Hell if you wanna high ball it, the Iron spider-suit is a Nano-Tech suit made by Tony Stark

Tonys suits have been at least small town level since Mark 6

During infinity war he was on Mark 50

He made the Iron Spider suit around the time he made mark 50 (Within a year, cause spider man is 16 when the Iron spider suit is made and still 16 when mark 50 is used) so no matter how much it downscales there's no logical reason he would make it weaker than a suit he made 44 suits ago, It just doesn't make sense.

And he definitely wouldn't trust peter to even join the avengers considering how inexperienced and naive he can be, he's just a kid to Tony, if other weak members like Hawkeye and Black Widow want to risk their lives they can do it but Tony has shown that he feels responsible for what happens to Peter, and he wouldn't just let Peter go out to die, cause what if something like Sokovia or the attack on New York happened? Yeah Tony wouldn't risk making peter an avenger unless he knew the Iron spider suit could handle it.

So uh, the first part would put him at High 8-C with Iron Spider suit

High Ball would land him at around Low 7-C with Iron Spider suit

Agree (High 8-C):

Agree (Low 7-C):

Disagree:
 
I always wondered why the Iron Spider scaled so low if Tony had already advanced so far with his technology. I think the High 8-C makes sense, perhaps the Low 7-C as a probable.
 
Following, the High 8-C makes sense but remember whatever the Iron Spider is scaled to it also upscales Doctor's Octopus' tentacles and Green Goblin's glider blades
that part makes doubt the Low 7-C scaling
 
Even without the iron-spider he should scale Low 7-C via enduring multiple shots and even an unibeam from reactor amped electro.
 
If upscaling usually involves an increase within 1.2x, it would take at least three upscales of 1.232 tons to reach baseline High 8-C.

Though there's probably still an argument to be made for upgrading super soldier tiers to High 8-C outright...
 
Lilybitdun said:
The sonic cannons wouldn't need High 8-C AP to knock down a skyscraper, they just need to be powerful enough to damage the foundation
Click to expand...
The sonic cannons are stated to be a boombox of fire power compared to all other stark weapons which includes the jerchio missile that can create shockwaves several miles long
 
Hmm, I thought bringing down a skyscraper by just taking out the base was High 8-C, though I guess ISL would probably render it moot either way.

Yes, the Jericho missile is well into tier 7, though I though the sonic cannon statement was just that it made a LRAD 500 seem like a simple boom box.
 
Dinobot1996 said:
Yes, the Jericho missile is well into tier 7, though I though the sonic cannon statement was just that it made a LRAD 500 seem like a simple boom box.
Click to expand...
I thought it says it’s a boombox compared to our firepower of our stark patented technology so it should compare it’s on the same catalog as the Jericho

According to classified documents Ross says that military weapons is useless against hulk and they requested the cannon because they lacked firepower to bring the big green giant to his knees
 
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I found the statement:
LHPOIpS.png
 
It says "Its a boom box compared to the sonic firepower of our Stark patented technology", is just saying a LRAD is just a normal boom box next to Stark Tech super military weaponry that is the Sonic Cannons
also why would ross get jericho missiles if he knows Hulk is in urban areas? bro isnt dropping literal nukes in civilian areas, the sonic box is far more practical and deals less damage to the surrounding environment and doesnt have to deal with the fact the Hulk can basically dodge the missiles
 
Upscaling is a case-by-case basis but from what I can see it's not within the 1.1x threshold of the next tier to justify any upgrade to High 8-C, let alone Low 7-C. Spidey's best feats with that suit are basically one-shotting multiple Dark Riders and that too with its legs.

Also Propellor put up an excellent response himself. Disagree.
 
KLOL506 said:
Upscaling is a case-by-case basis but from what I can see it's not within the 1.1x threshold of the next tier to justify any upgrade to High 8-C, let alone Low 7-C. Spidey's best feats with that suit are basically one-shotting multiple Dark Riders and that too with its legs.

Also Propellor put up an excellent response himself. Disagree.
Click to expand...
Don't forget Iron Spider took an L to Doc Ock who has no feats anywhere close to that level despite his arms being able to get easily chopped off by Norman's glider blades.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Don't forget Iron Spider took an L to Doc Ock who has no feats anywhere close to that level despite his arms being able to get easily chopped off by Norman's glider blades.
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Feat for ock and the glider lol they scale to Peter who scales above cull

Also the suit has a weakness to being pulled outwards rather then blunt force mark 50 has the same weakness because thanos easily pulled it off with a single grab but strikes it immediately after effortlessly pulling it and could only dent it with repeated punches the same applies to iron spider ock pulled a chunk off but the 2nd he went for a killing blow the suit no sold it and bent his blade leaving even ock surprised
 
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darkphantom9805 said:
Feat for ock and the glider lol they scale to Peter who scales above cull

Also the suit has a weakness to being pulled outwards rather then blunt force mark 50 has the same weakness because thanos easily pulled it off with a single grab but strikes it immediately after effortlessly pulling it and could only dent it with repeated punches the same applies to iron spider ock pulled a chunk off but the 2nd he went for a killing blow the suit no sold it and bent his blade leaving even ock surprised
Click to expand...
I've definitely not heard these before... nope, never...
 
Me when no upgrade:
83648d7498f35936b735c8504f489cc8.jpg


Anyways this seems pretty disagreed upon even though stuff like the bionic arm one shotting pretty much everyone is probably high enough imo

but if everyone else disagrees then I guess I cant do much
 
Rogue_Forge said:
Anyways this seems pretty disagreed upon even though stuff like the bionic arm one shotting pretty much everyone is probably high enough imo
Click to expand...

While the bionic arm is a bit stronger than Bucky's standard 8-C+ attacks, it never one-shots the 8-C+ cast. We've seen it explicitly not one-shot 8-C+ guys before
Again, I'm not denying the fact that yes, Bucky's bionic arm is stronger than his regular attacks. But it's not one-shotting the 8-C+ cast or anything
 
Lonkitt said:
While the bionic arm is a bit stronger than Bucky's standard 8-C+ attacks, it never one-shots the 8-C+ cast. We've seen it explicitly not one-shot 8-C+ guys before
Again, I'm not denying the fact that yes, Bucky's bionic arm is stronger than his regular attacks. But it's not one-shotting the 8-C+ cast or anything
Click to expand...
Only way I see him ever one-shotting a dude on his level with it is if he packed all of his strength behind a blow to the back of someone's head or something. Also didn't Walker throw  his shield so hard at Bucky that when he tried to pull what he did against Steve he got sent flyig backwards and dislocating his Vibranium arm?
 
Lonkitt said:
While the bionic arm is a bit stronger than Bucky's standard 8-C+ attacks, it never one-shots the 8-C+ cast. We've seen it explicitly not one-shot 8-C+ guys before
Again, I'm not denying the fact that yes, Bucky's bionic arm is stronger than his regular attacks. But it's not one-shotting the 8-C+ cast or anything
Click to expand...
Ok but it is significantly stronger than his normal AP

The first 2 videos show the bionic arm significantly overpowering cap every time

The third video is against T'challa who already upscales from from Shuri's 1.232 tons of TNT feat due to having years more training and far time with his powers and that's just in base, with the suit, which buff his strength again, the bionic arm was shown to be roughly comparable (Feat)

The last 2 are from Falcon and the Winter Soldier, a show which is already hella inconsistent but even still it shows that the bionic arm is significantly stronger than his normal attacks with his normal punches looking normal and his bionic arm punches launching people backwards

And there's other feats for it too like being able to do minor damage Iron Mans armor (Feat)

Its literally just a 1.6x upgrade to get Iron Spider to Large Building level when, AGAIN this is how much Iron Spider upscales

(Iron Spider > Spider-Man = or above Bionic-Arm > 1.232 tons of TNT)

I've seen characters jump over 2x in stats by massively upscaling to just ONE character, Peter can upscale possibly 3 times and he only needs a 1.6x difference
 
Rogue_Forge said:
Ok but it is significantly stronger than his normal AP

The first 2 videos show the bionic arm significantly overpowering cap every time

The third video is against T'challa who already upscales from from Shuri's 1.232 tons of TNT feat due to having years more training and far time with his powers and that's just in base, with the suit, which buff his strength again, the bionic arm was shown to be roughly comparable (Feat)

The last 2 are from Falcon and the Winter Soldier, a show which is already hella inconsistent but even still it shows that the bionic arm is significantly stronger than his normal attacks with his normal punches looking normal and his bionic arm punches launching people backwards

And there's other feats for it too like being able to do minor damage Iron Mans armor (Feat)

Its literally just a 1.6x upgrade to get Iron Spider to Large Building level when, AGAIN this is how much Iron Spider upscales

(Iron Spider > Spider-Man = or above Bionic-Arm > 1.232 tons of TNT)

I've seen characters jump over 2x in stats by massively upscaling to just ONE character, Peter can upscale possibly 3 times and he only needs a 1.6x difference
Click to expand...
Two wrongs don't make a right. We have rules against upscaling like that.
 
Rogue_Forge said:
Ok but it is significantly stronger than his normal AP

The first 2 videos show the bionic arm significantly overpowering cap every time

The third video is against T'challa who already upscales from from Shuri's 1.232 tons of TNT feat due to having years more training and far time with his powers and that's just in base, with the suit, which buff his strength again, the bionic arm was shown to be roughly comparable (Feat)

The last 2 are from Falcon and the Winter Soldier, a show which is already hella inconsistent but even still it shows that the bionic arm is significantly stronger than his normal attacks with his normal punches looking normal and his bionic arm punches launching people backwards

And there's other feats for it too like being able to do minor damage Iron Mans armor (Feat)

Its literally just a 1.6x upgrade to get Iron Spider to Large Building level when, AGAIN this is how much Iron Spider upscales

(Iron Spider > Spider-Man = or above Bionic-Arm > 1.232 tons of TNT)

I've seen characters jump over 2x in stats by massively upscaling to just ONE character, Peter can upscale possibly 3 times and he only needs a 1.6x difference
Click to expand...

Stronger, sure. One-shotting range like you claimed? No

Also, we can't assume exact multipliers based on this alone like you're suggesting here. That's not how things are done in the wiki
 
DaReaperMan said:
Show me these characters, and if you're correct, I WILL DOWNGRADE THEM MYSELF.
Click to expand...
Actually now that I think about it, the thread I was thinking of just used an already pre existing multiplier and just applied them to things that didn't have stated multipliers (Also it was a Naruto CRT iirc so it having a UES probably allowed that to happen)
 
Lonkitt said:
Stronger, sure. One-shotting range like you claimed? No
Click to expand...
I didn't mean like killing in one blow I meant being knocked out or rendered unable to fight in one blow, but yeah there's probably to many anti feats for the few times he one shots to matter
Lonkitt said:
Also, we can't assume exact multipliers based on this alone like you're suggesting here. That's not how things are done in the wiki
Click to expand...
This is just incorrect, several characters have been upscaled to higher tiers just from being stronger than other characters

Examples that I can think of off the top of my head:

Metro Man upscaling from 800 tons of TNT to 1 Kiloton

All low 7-C characters from TAWOG upscaling from 900 tons of TNT to 1 Kiloton

Gojo used to upscaling from 540 Kilotons as AP, to 550 Kilotons with dura just cause his durability supposedly was higher than his AP

And there's definitely way more than that but I don't wanna look through dozens of pages for only a few more examples

And of course the thread regarding upscaling says that in general one shotting characters grants up to a 1.5x power increase as long as its obvious that character A is far above character B

Putting Iron Spider at 1.6x higher isn't all that crazy considering he one hit kills dozens of outriders in instant kill mode, who all upscale from the same 1.232 tons of TNT feat
 
Rogue_Forge said:
This is just incorrect, several characters have been upscaled to higher tiers just from being stronger than other characters
Click to expand...

You're misunderstanding my claim entirely. I never said we've never upscaled characters based on them being stronger. I've done that with a Spider-Man on this wiki in (that being Raimi Games Spider-Man). I only said that we can't introduce multipliers that aren't explicitly stated (ex. Super Saiyan is officially stated to be a x50 amp)

I can't speak for the examples you listed since I didn't apply those values and I don't scale those verses, but I'm gonna cover the example I used to explain why that can work and why the one you're suggesting here cannot. Raimi Games Spider-Man was a case where upscaling to the next tier via the Black Suit was very fair

In the first game, Shocker has a feat where he creates a giant hole. Because of how the feat is framed, the calculation is actually a low end, with the results having been 1.7679 Tons of TNT. That value is 1.13636363636 times below 2 tons, which is baseline High 8-C

Not only is Shocker someone who Peter consistently took out easily while in base, but Green Goblin was toted as a greater foe than any of the others in the first game, and by the second game, Doc Ock is toted as being stronger than any of the previous villains. Peter's able to outright battle and defeat Ock. Because there's all this upscaling off of a feat that was already considered a lowball, with the results being on the high end of 8-C+, I placed the Black Suit key at baseline High 8-C. In my opinion, this is the perfect example of where there is enough upscaling provided to place a key such as the Black Suit in the next tier over, at baseline


Let's compare this to the upscaling you're proposing

The MCU's 8-C+ guys scale to 1.232 Tons of TNT. As you mentioned, that's a bit over 1.6 times weaker than 2 tons (1.62601626016 to be precise). Bucky's bionic arm upscales this value. Not to an insane degree, but enough to where someone like Cap takes slightly more damage. Spidey caught a bionic arm punch with ease. Now we get to the Iron Spider. It is considered stronger than his base given it's more durable than his regular suit (something that is outright stated on Marvel's site) and it's powered by an advanced outlet. On top of that, it's arms were able to match Ock's tentacles, with said tentacles being stronger than Base Raimi Spidey and Base TASM Spidey. Even then, it's not like Ock's arms were ever one-shotting Raimi Spidey, they just overwhelmed him. He still managed to have extended fights with the guy, not dissimilar to how Steve can keep fighting after having taken blows from Bucky's bionic arm

Ultimately, the power difference between Base MCU Spidey and the Iron Spider doesn't have enough to prove it breaches into the next tier

And regarding the argument that "Tonys suits have been at least small town level since Mark 6"...that just isn't true. The suit that Tony rocks during CW is literally a non-combative suit that Cap and Bucky can keep up with and even overwhelm. Of course, since it's an Iron Man suit, it's still gonna be tough. But you can't tell me that prior suits, like the ones used in Avengers, are "non-combative" just because the one in CW is. Tony doesn't make progressively stronger suits, that's not how the Mark numbers work

This ain't it
 
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Rogue_Forge said:
Putting Iron Spider at 1.6x higher isn't all that crazy considering he one hit kills dozens of outriders in instant kill mode, who all upscale from the same 1.232 tons of TNT feat
Click to expand...

This also isn't true. Outriders are literally ranked "At most 8-C" and are described as nearly comparable to Black Panther and Cap on their page. They've never upscaled from the 8-C+ feat. It makes sense for them to be ranked this at most since they were only as effective as they were due to strength in numbers
 
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