Mega Charizard X vs Gigantamax Charizard

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

Fight is very simple, which Charizard variant has the best advantage? The tough claws boosted draconic mega or the kaiju sized gigantamax?

Both start in their respective forms as base vs base would be pointless here as they are literally the same pokemon, assuming fights between two seperate and distinct versions of the same pokemon species are allowed.

Votes:
Mega X: 0
Gigantamax: 1

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Gigantamax most likely

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

So a vote for gigantamax then?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Obviouskly

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

Added, though do you have any specific reasons why? (Since that is kinda important lol)

 

[Mickey1940]

Added, though do you have any specific reasons why? (Since that is kinda important lol)

this is a late reply but

Other Gigantamax Pokemon like GMax Centiskortch can match and nearly overpower Ash's Pikachu, Dragonite, and Riolu simultaneously. with Pikachu and Dragonite having feats that put them on par with Megas, and Riolu throwing hands with fully evolved pokemon
meaning GMax Zard has a 2.5 times AP advantage, 1.9 times advantage if you include Tough Class boosts

Not only that, but even though Mega Zard X has a bunch of useful utility moves like Dragon Breath para, Air Slash flinches, Scary Face, Fire Spin set residual damage, Smokescreen and Growl attack debuffs, Max Guard literally invalidates everything. In return, GMax Charizard can raise his own speed by up to 4 times via Max Airstream and lower attack and speed via Max Wyrmwind and Max Strike respectively. PLUS GMax zard's Max Wyrmwind is super effective on Mega Zard X, which doubles his damage output.

Mega Zard X simply doesn't have enough going for it to do anything of significance against GMax Zard

 

[Darkvie123]

GMAX FRA

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

this is a late reply but

Other Gigantamax Pokemon like GMax Centiskortch can match and nearly overpower Ash's Pikachu, Dragonite, and Riolu simultaneously. with Pikachu and Dragonite having feats that put them on par with Megas, and Riolu throwing hands with fully evolved pokemon
meaning GMax Zard has a 2.5 times AP advantage, 1.9 times advantage if you include Tough Class boosts

You do realize Mega Evolution scales to Dynamax right? We have seen many feats of Mega Evolution VS Gigantamax, and they're shown to be comparable

For example: Ash's Lucario and Bea's Machamp were evenly matched in Base, and Mega Lucario overpowered G-Max Machamp.

Diantha's Mega Gardevoir could redirect a G-Max Wildfire from Leon's G-Max Charizard, and overpower its Max Airstream with it. While Charizard did won, the point still stands as they were not evenly matched in base.

Diantha's Mega Gardevoir also overpowered Lance's Dynamax Dragonite

Ash's Lucario also managed to overpowere Dynamax Togekiss, despite the two being able to match each other in base

So I completely disagree with Dynamax scaling above Mega Evolution

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I'm pretty sure the outcome of this match heavily depends on the moveset of the Charizards, but Mega Charizard X resists most of Charizard's standards moveset, so it could generally take some Max moves from G-Max Charizard

Mega Charizard X being able to use Dragon Dance also can counter the speed buffs G-Max Charizard get from Max Airstream. And, Mega Charizard X only need to outlast it for 3 turns, as after that it turns back to Base and from there Mega X should win easily

I do believe that while the Charizards are comparable, Mega X can outlast the Dynamax turns and win that way

 

[Mickey1940]

You do realize Mega Evolution scales to Dynamax right? We have seen many feats of Mega Evolution VS Gigantamax, and they're shown to be comparable

For example: Ash's Lucario and Bea's Machamp were evenly matched in Base, and Mega Lucario overpowered G-Max Machamp.

Diantha's Mega Gardevoir could redirect a G-Max Wildfire from Leon's G-Max Charizard, and overpower its Max Airstream with it. While Charizard did won, the point still stands as they were not evenly matched in base.

Diantha's Mega Gardevoir also overpowered Lance's Dynamax Dragonite

Ash's Lucario also managed to overpowere Dynamax Togekiss, despite the two being able to match each other in base

So I completely disagree with Dynamax scaling above Mega Evolution

Right now the pages on their profile have GMax set as a 5 times multiplier, while Mega Evolution upscales from a x2 via Marowak Thick Club and Pure/Huge Pokemon.

I DON'T disagree that Megas should scale to GMax pokemon. But you might want to make a CRT to change the pages properly

 

[Mickey1940]

I'm pretty sure the outcome of this match heavily depends on the moveset of the Charizards, but Mega Charizard X resists most of Charizard's standards moveset, so it could generally take some Max moves from G-Max Charizard

Mega Charizard X being able to use Dragon Dance also can counter the speed buffs G-Max Charizard get from Max Airstream. And, Mega Charizard X only need to outlast it for 3 turns, as after that it turns back to Base and from there Mega X should win easily

I do believe that while the Charizards are comparable, Mega X can outlast the Dynamax turns and win that way

Except Mega Zard X doesn't have access to DD here. IIRC unless specified otherwise, pokemon VS battles are based on their current-gen level up moves since hey use wild pokemon

Also, GMax can last indefinitely so long as the battlefield has a steady source of Gigantamax energy. Dynamax pokemon last forever in Raid battles, so why wouldn't it last forever here?

Also, no, Mega Zard X is weak to Max Wyrmwind, which GMax has access to via Dragonbreath, not to mention it negs Mega Zard's attack, while Mega Zard X has no moves that can deal super effective damage to GMax in return

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Except Mega Zard X doesn't have access to DD here. IIRC unless specified otherwise, pokemon VS battles are based on their current-gen level up moves since hey use wild pokemon

I'm pretty sure Egg Moves are allowed too here. Only TMs aren't iirc, and since Egg Moves are allowed, Mega X can use ancient power to not only deal 4 times effective damage on G-Max Zard, but also potentially get an omni-boost, making it very good. While G-Max Charizard could use it too, a Max Rockfall creates a sandstorm which hurts it, so I doubt it'll opt to use it

Also, GMax can last indefinitely so long as the battlefield has a steady source of Gigantamax energy. Dynamax pokemon last forever in Raid battles, so why wouldn't it last forever here?

Because the battle doesn't specify the location, and it can't be a raid battle since you can't fight in a raid battle alone, there are rules to this

Also, no, Mega Zard X is weak to Max Wyrmwind, which GMax has access to via Dragonbreath, not to mention it negs Mega Zard's attack, while Mega Zard X has no moves that can deal super effective damage to GMax in return

Mega X have 130 Sp. Atk stat, so Max Wyrmwind reducing attack ain't gonna affect it all that much aside from the damage as even without D-Dance it has a variety of special moves to use against G-Max Charizard

Not to talk about the fact that all Mega X needs to do is to outlast G-Max Charizard's turns, which it can do since it can only attack 3 times, and considering they don't fight in a Galar power spot raid battle (which is impossible to do alone anyways), it'd say Dynamax turns are limited

 

[XXKINGXX69]

this is a late reply but

Other Gigantamax Pokemon like GMax Centiskortch can match and nearly overpower Ash's Pikachu, Dragonite, and Riolu simultaneously. with Pikachu and Dragonite having feats that put them on par with Megas, and Riolu throwing hands with fully evolved pokemon
meaning GMax Zard has a 2.5 times AP advantage, 1.9 times advantage if you include Tough Class boosts

Not only that, but even though Mega Zard X has a bunch of useful utility moves like Dragon Breath para, Air Slash flinches, Scary Face, Fire Spin set residual damage, Smokescreen and Growl attack debuffs, Max Guard literally invalidates everything. In return, GMax Charizard can raise his own speed by up to 4 times via Max Airstream and lower attack and speed via Max Wyrmwind and Max Strike respectively. PLUS GMax zard's Max Wyrmwind is super effective on Mega Zard X, which doubles his damage output.

Mega Zard X simply doesn't have enough going for it to do anything of significance against GMax Zard

No, Pikachu can one shot megas

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

No, Pikachu can one shot megas

Depends on the Mega. Pikachu certainly can't one shot the top tier Megas. Even Steven's Mega Metagross survived (barely) a Z Move from Pikachu that is literally way above his usual AP

Wait, which Mega did it one shot?

 

[Chariot190]

i would like to point out using Leon's Zard as evidence for Gigant being stronger is invalid, that thing is built different.
Like that specific Charizard is roided the **** out, he can beat a Megazard X in base if it wanted to, and even did.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Depends on the Mega. Pikachu certainly can't one shot the top tier Megas. Even Steven's Mega Metagross survived (barely) a Z Move from Pikachu that is literally way above his usual AP

Wait, which Mega did it one shot?

His thunderbolt can partially block yveltal's oblivion wing, Pikachu would one tap regular megas

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

His thunderbolt can partially block yveltal's oblivion wing, Pikachu would one tap regular megas

I'm pretty sure that's an outlier for Pikachu. Pikachu is never shown to be this strong without something to boost his power (such as a Z Move)

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

i would like to point out using Leon's Zard as evidence for Gigant being stronger is invalid, that thing is built different.
Like that specific Charizard is roided the **** out, he can beat a Megazard X in base if it wanted to, and even did.

Yeah. Leon is clearly stated to be the strongest trainer, so him beating Alain's Mega Charizard X in Base isn't proof for G-Max > Megas

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I'm pretty sure that's an outlier for Pikachu. Pikachu is never shown to be this strong without something to boost his power (such as a Z Move)

Show an anti feat for Pikachu

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Show an anti feat for Pikachu

Every instance of Pikachu being overpowered by Pokèmon way weaker than Legendaries?

For example: Pikachu losing to Wulfric's Avalugg, Sawyer's Base Sceptile, Alain's Base Charizard, Guzma's Golisopod, Bea's Grappeloct and more

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Just one feat isn't enough when he is consistently shown to be relative to regularr mons, and weaker than Legendaries (without Z Moves), such as Tapu Koko, Mewtwo (in Journeys), Articuno and more

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Every instance of Pikachu being overpowered by Pokèmon way weaker than Legendaries?

For example: Pikachu losing to Wulfric's Avalugg, Sawyer's Base Sceptile, Alain's Base Charizard, Guzma's Golisopod, Bea's Grappeloct and more

Why are those pokemon weaker than legendaries? What anti feats do they have?

Just one feat isn't enough when he is consistently shown to be relative to regularr mons, and weaker than Legendaries (without Z Moves), such as Tapu Koko, Mewtwo (in Journeys), Articuno and more

Why can't Tapu Koko and that Articuno upscale? What regular mons is he "consistently shown to be relative" to? Mewtwo was one of the strongest legendaries at the time, not an anti feat

 

[Chariot190]

Why are those pokemon weaker than legendaries? What anti feats do they have?

Alain's Megazard got memed on by legendaries on screen my dude (Primal Groudon basically one shot it, Fug humiliates it, 50% Zygarde is beyond tough, etc). And it's way stronger than half the things he listed off explicitly, like that sceptile.
Alain's Megazard X > Ash Greninja > Sawyer's Mega Sceptile.
And that Avalugg as well is below Ash Greninja.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Alain's Megazard got memed on by legendaries on screen my dude (Primal Groudon basically one shot it, Fug humiliates it, 50% Zygarde is beyond tough, etc). And it's way stronger than half the things he listed off explicitly, like that sceptile.
Alain's Megazard X > Ash Greninja > Sawyer's Mega Sceptile.
And that Avalugg as well is below Ash Greninja.

Ash's Pokemon also lost Moltres and Zapdos in XY, Tapu Koko, Zeraora and many UBs stomped Base Pikachu and more to add to your point

 

[Mickey1940]

I'm pretty sure Egg Moves are allowed too here. Only TMs aren't iirc, and since Egg Moves are allowed, Mega X can use ancient power to not only deal 4 times effective damage on G-Max Zard, but also potentially get an omni-boost, making it very good. While G-Max Charizard could use it too, a Max Rockfall creates a sandstorm which hurts it, so I doubt it'll opt to use it

Because the battle doesn't specify the location, and it can't be a raid battle since you can't fight in a raid battle alone, there are rules to this

Mega X have 130 Sp. Atk stat, so Max Wyrmwind reducing attack ain't gonna affect it all that much aside from the damage as even without D-Dance it has a variety of special moves to use against G-Max Charizard

Not to talk about the fact that all Mega X needs to do is to outlast G-Max Charizard's turns, which it can do since it can only attack 3 times, and considering they don't fight in a Galar power spot raid battle (which is impossible to do alone anyways), it'd say Dynamax turns are limited

Why does it matter if you can't fight raid battles alone? the wild pokemon in the raid battles are perma dynamaxed. I don't see your point
I do agree that outside of raid battles, Pokemon can't perma dynamax, but then that would make this a massive mismatch since Gigantamax lasts for like 2 minutes. I was under the assumption that both forms would last indefinitely

I'm pretty sure raw stats aren't actually considered here since both Charizard are using transformations that have the same scaling. Base Stat increases via Mega evolution don't make any sense in the scaling chain. For example, Charizard goes from 84 ATK to 130 ATK, even though the accepted multipliers for megas are at minimum x2 via upscaling from thick club and pure/huge power.

Max Wyrmwind cuts Mega Zard X's ATK by 33%, which is pretty significant considering that the move's spammable

Even though egg moves gives Mega Zard X a significant advantage, the issue lies in the fact that GMax Zard can just spam Max Guard and not only protect itself from damage, but also prevent Mega Zard X from getting stat boosts besides using Dragon Dance

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Why does it matter if you can't fight raid battles alone? the wild pokemon in the raid battles are perma dynamaxed. I don't see your point
I do agree that outside of raid battles, Pokemon can't perma dynamax, but then that would make this a massive mismatch since Gigantamax lasts for like 2 minutes. I was under the assumption that both forms would last indefinitely

Well they don't fight in a power spot, which means Dynamax turns are limited, and last for a short while (3 Max moves)

I'm pretty sure raw stats aren't actually considered here since both Charizard are using transformations that have the same scaling. Base Stat increases via Mega evolution don't make any sense in the scaling chain. For example, Charizard goes from 84 ATK to 130 ATK, even though the accepted multipliers for megas are at minimum x2 via upscaling from thick club and pure/huge power.

Max Wyrmwind cuts Mega Zard X's ATK by 33%, which is pretty significant considering that the move's spammable

Sp. Atk doesn't care about the drop from Max Wyrmwind, and Charizard has plenty of special moves to use in case Max Wyrmwind hits

Even though egg moves gives Mega Zard X a significant advantage, the issue lies in the fact that GMax Zard can just spam Max Guard and not only protect itself from damage, but also prevent Mega Zard X from getting stat boosts besides using Dragon Dance

Using Max Guard will prevent G-Max Charizard from attacking, and given that Dynamax turns are limited, it'd have less oppertunities to damage Mega Charizard X if it spams Max Guard. Max Guard cab also fails in succession, so there's a very real chance it'll try and fail to use Max Guard and let Mega X get a free hit on it, especially with how slow Dynamax Pokemon are, as we see Mega Pokemon (and non Megas such as with Gengar VS G-Max Grimmsnarl or Goodra VS G-Max Gengar)

 

[Mickey1940]

Well they don't fight in a power spot, which means Dynamax turns are limited, and last for a short while (3 Max moves)

Sp. Atk doesn't care about the drop from Max Wyrmwind, and Charizard has plenty of special moves to use in case Max Wyrmwind hits

Using Max Guard will prevent G-Max Charizard from attacking, and given that Dynamax turns are limited, it'd have less oppertunities to damage Mega Charizard X if it spams Max Guard. Max Guard cab also fails in succession, so there's a very real chance it'll try and fail to use Max Guard and let Mega X get a free hit on it, especially with how slow Dynamax Pokemon are, as we see Mega Pokemon (and non Megas such as with Gengar VS G-Max Grimmsnarl or Goodra VS G-Max Gengar)

1. Then this match is a mismatch lmao. Mega Zard outlasts since it lasts more than 2 minutes

2. Good point, but then Mega Zard X can't take advantage of Tough Claws

3. Well, assuming infinite Dynamax, then that wouldn't be a problem here, buuuuuut yeah thats fair
Also yeah tbh I forgot Max Guard fails in succession, but it's still an amazing utility tool

Changing my vote to Mega Zard X via Ancientpower omniboosts and Counter

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

1. Then this match is a mismatch lmao. Mega Zard outlasts since it lasts more than 2 minutes

I'm not so sure. Depending on what G-Max Zard uses, it could cripple Mega X's attack with Max Wyrmwind, and increase its speed with Max Airstream, but if you think it's a mismatched then alright

2. Good point, but then Mega Zard X can't take advantage of Tough Claws

That is true, but it has pretty good special attack even without the tough claws boost so it'd still hit pretty hard

I'll also vote for Mega X for the reasons I provided

 

[Mickey1940]

I'm not so sure. Depending on what G-Max Zard uses, it could cripple Mega X's attack with Max Wyrmwind, and increase its speed with Max Airstream, but if you think it's a mismatched then alright

That is true, but it has pretty good special attack even without the tough claws boost so it'd still hit pretty hard

I'll also vote for Mega X for the reasons I provided

1. if he can only use 3 attacks before detransforming, once he detransforms Mega Zard X will have a x5 AP and speed advantage. It doesn't matter what reg Zard does after that since at that point they both have the exact same moveset and they can boost themselves

2. ye

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

1. if he can only use 3 attacks before detransforming, once he detransforms Mega Zard X will have a x5 AP and speed advantage. It doesn't matter what reg Zard does after that since at that point they both have the exact same moveset and they can boost themselves

I think the gap was only for AP iirc. Speed for Megas is unquantifyably higher than Base, but I could be wrong

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Alain's Megazard got memed on by legendaries on screen my dude (Primal Groudon basically one shot it, Fug humiliates it, 50% Zygarde is beyond tough, etc). And it's way stronger than half the things he listed off explicitly, like that sceptile.
Alain's Megazard X > Ash Greninja > Sawyer's Mega Sceptile.
And that Avalugg as well is below Ash Greninja.

Primal Groudon basically one shot it

That never happened, a Dragon Ascent from Mega Rayquaza which KO'd Primal Groudon and Kyogre doesn't ko mega charizard X. It did one shot him but it was super effective. Mega Charizard X can overpower and blitz Primal Groudon

Sceptile doesn't have anti feats, neither does Greninja

Ash's Pokemon also lost Moltres and Zapdos in XY, Tapu Koko, Zeraora and many UBs stomped Base Pikachu and more to add to your point

Also never happened. While Fletchinder was evolving, it took like no damage from Moltres' Flamethrower. A brave bird from Talonflame could overpower Moltres

"Lost to Zapdos" you mean one shot Zapdos?

Losing to UBs isn't an anti feat. Zeraora is stronger than Pikachu, but not that much, Pikachu could clash evenly with it.

Tapu Koko stomped base Pikachu? Pikachu could overpower him with Quick Attack. This was also a trained Tapu Koko, who is stronger than a regular one. If you want to use anti feats, at least use ones that actually happened, making up stuff doesn't help

 

[Chariot190]

That never happened,

Things that happened, more at 11.
You need to stop making claims if you can't even bother to watch the very things you're arguing.

Mega Charizard X can overpower and blitz Primal Groudon

Do you not realize Groudon was in the middle of doing something? Was blindsided, taken by surprise and every other qualifier for why the fact you even thought of bringing that was somehow a good idea being the exact opposite. Honestly, the fact Groudon was more preoccupied trying to get the energy than dealing with Zard should tell you he wasn't that big a threat to them, wasn't even a priority.

ko mega charizard X. It did one shot him but it was super effective. Mega Charizard X can overpower and blitz Primal Groudon

"didn't ko him. but it one shot him".
Did you actually just contradict yourself that hard in the exact same line of text? If Megazard got put on his ass by Fug, that isn't an indication of scaling at all, to anything, in fact it's more proof he doesn't scale to legends.
And no, it doesn't work that way, just because it one shot them two doesn't mean they're equal, it just means MegaRay is insanely powerful and can one shot things far, far, beyond Zard X as well (Doubly so given how Zard X stacked up against them, which is to say very badly).

Anyway no, you're being disingenuous.
You say Megazard X "overpowered" Groudon, but failed to mention the fact Groudon was completely unscathed, unharmed, and immediately turned around and one shot Megazard X.
Not only that here's the Megagross and Megazard X attacking Primal Groudon at the same time and doing quite literally no damage to it despite their best efforts.
Every single attack that landed on Groudon from Megazard failed to even harm it. The worst part is, Steven's Megagross is actually quite a bit above megazard X at this point, and it can't even hurt them either, and it also got floored by Kyogre, so super effective or not isnt a factor. Mega Ray> Primals > Megagross > Megazard.

Sceptile doesn't have anti feats, neither does Greninja

Sceptile's anti feat is getting its ass kicked by Greninja and having zero feats to begin with, and Greninja's anti feat is getting its ass kicked by Blast Burn.
Who got its ass kicked by Groudon and couldn't even damage it.

The only thing Megazard has going for it, is that it actually did react to Groudon's attacks and managed to slice through a rock, so that's an objective claim. Unfortunately that doesn't change the fact it got one shot by Groudon and completely and utterly lacks the capability to even tickle Groudon.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Things that happened, more at 11.
You need to stop making claims if you can't even bother to watch the very things you're arguing.

Do you not realize Groudon was in the middle of doing something? Was blindsided, taken by surprise and every other qualifier for why the fact you even thought of bringing that was somehow a good idea being the exact opposite. Honestly, the fact Groudon was more preoccupied trying to get the energy than dealing with Zard should tell you he wasn't that big a threat to them, wasn't even a priority.

"didn't ko him. but it one shot him".
Did you actually just contradict yourself that hard in the exact same line of text? If Megazard got put on his ass by Fug, that isn't an indication of scaling at all, to anything, in fact it's more proof he doesn't scale to legends.
And no, it doesn't work that way, just because it one shot them two doesn't mean they're equal, it just means MegaRay is insanely powerful and can one shot things far, far, beyond Zard X as well (Doubly so given how Zard X stacked up against them, which is to say very badly).

Anyway no, you're being disingenuous.
You say Megazard X "overpowered" Groudon, but failed to mention the fact Groudon was completely unscathed, unharmed, and immediately turned around and one shot Megazard X.
Not only that here's the Megagross and Megazard X attacking Primal Groudon at the same time and doing quite literally no damage to it despite their best efforts.
Every single attack that landed on Groudon from Megazard failed to even harm it. The worst part is, Steven's Megagross is actually quite a bit above megazard X at this point, and it can't even hurt them either, and it also got floored by Kyogre, so super effective or not isnt a factor. Mega Ray> Primals > Megagross > Megazard.

Sceptile's anti feat is getting its ass kicked by Greninja and having zero feats to begin with, and Greninja's anti feat is getting its ass kicked by Blast Burn.
Who got its ass kicked by Groudon and couldn't even damage it.

The only thing Megazard has going for it, is that it actually did react to Groudon's attacks and managed to slice through a rock, so that's an objective claim. Unfortunately that doesn't change the fact it got one shot by Groudon and completely and utterly lacks the capability to even tickle Groudon.

Mega Charizard X was still not KO'd from that Precipice Blades. That's also a super effective move, Charizard could shatter them with dragon claw.

Do you not realize Groudon was in the middle of doing something? Was blindsided, taken by surprise and every other qualifier for why the fact you even thought of bringing that was somehow a good idea being the exact opposite. Honestly, the fact Groudon was more preoccupied trying to get the energy than dealing with Zard should tell you he wasn't that big a threat to them, wasn't even a priority.

This didn't drop his durability, and if Groudon thought Charizard wasn't a threat, he must have been underestimating zard

"didn't ko him. but it one shot him".

You can one shot someone without knocking them out.

If Megazard got put on his ass by Fug, that isn't an indication of scaling at all, to anything, in fact it's more proof he doesn't scale to legends.

I never used that to say Charizard scales to Rayquaza, so that's a strawman. Him losing to mega rayquaza doesn't mean he doesn't scale to legends, rayquaza isn't one of the weaker legendaries.

And no, it doesn't work that way, just because it one shot them two doesn't mean they're equal, it just means MegaRay is insanely powerful and can one shot things far, far, beyond Zard X as well (Doubly so given how Zard X stacked up against them, which is to say very badly).

Why would this mean Rayquaza can one shot Pokemon far stronger than charizard? Dragon Ascent did less damage to Charizard then it did to Kyogre and Groudon. It would at the very least mean Charizard's durability is better than them

Not only that here's the Megagross and Megazard X attacking Primal Groudon at the same time and doing quite literally no damage to it despite their best efforts. Every single attack that landed on Groudon from Megazard failed to even harm it. The worst part is, Steven's Megagross is actually quite a bit above megazard X at this point, and it can't even hurt them either, and it also got floored by Kyogre, so super effective or not isnt a factor. Mega Ray> Primals > Megagross > Megazard.

Groudon literally resists flash cannon and flamethrower. Sure, its true Metagross may not be equal but he isn't too much weaker. Charizard's Steel wing staggered Primal Groudon and yeah he didn't take much damage, but even staggering him is a feat. This Mega Absol can tank steel wing without issue, and Charizard's Dragon Claw sent it flying. If Charizard can stagger Groudon with steel wing, dragon claw would do a lot of damage

Sceptile's anti feat is getting its ass kicked by Greninja and having zero feats to begin with, and Greninja's anti feat is getting its ass kicked by Blast Burn.

Charizard could have gotten stronger. Charizard also didn't use Blast Burn on Groudon, so you can't even compare the two. Greninja was already damaged by dragon claw and even more dragon claws after that

 

[Gaaraofthedesert801]

Wow this thread suddenly got active again when I didnt notice lol

 

[Mickey1940]

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