(Mega Man X) Fine Tuning the World of X, Misc. Revisions

[TheHedgememe]

This is NOT a downgrade or an upgrade thread. Rather, this is a thread intended to clean up the profiles and their contents just a bit more.​

That means there's nothing major in regards to AP, hax, or speed. Just mainly proposing that evidence should be linked within the profiles, and that justifications should be changed for certain ratings in addition to some minor details I'd personally correct.​

Honestly as I write it it just looks more and more like a Zero CRT. whoopsie. I handled it just like the actual X series.

X, Zero and Sigma:​

AP and Speed justifications:​

Xtreme 2 Mother Computer:
AlloyAmi’s article justifying X, Zero, and Sigma’s tier 2 AP should be linked within “Should be stronger than Techno who could overwrite all of the Mother Computer's data and reproduce it with the power of his own CPU.” I suggest also changing "should be stronger than" to simply "stronger than" because X and Zero are pretty clearly among the top tiers (if not top 2 outright) in the X Era. No reason to say "should" in this case.

Migue79's calculation for these speed feats should also be linked for their speed under “superior to Techno who could re-write all data in the Mother Computer.”

I would also give justification to the “Likely Infinite” rating to the profiles mentioning Techno’s speed feat, linking scans to the likely infinitely-sized Mega Man universe from this thread.

Zero’s X5 Shenanigans (scrapped, more details given in the thread):
In Zero’s case, I’d simply remove the mention of Awakened Zero altogether and instead simply state that he was being amped by the Zero Virus throughout X5. While the Awakened Zero fight is a legitimate possibility as that is Sigma’s plan over the course of the game, it actually doesn’t canonically happen as it leads to X5’s bad ending where Doctor Light erases X’s memories of Zero, directly contradicting the events of X6 as X clearly remembers Zero when they reunite in that game. X6’s opening additionally only seems to acknowledge the good ending and its events, as Eurasia is destroyed and X has the Z-Saber.

For X Challenge stuff this is fine, since X fights Awakened Zero there. But in the context of X5 (which the profile clearly uses to help solidify 2-C ratings) it’s best to simply go with Zero being amped by the Zero Virus. The overall X5 Tier 2 justification shouldn’t change overall however. The only difference is whether or not Zero himself turns evil, but in both cases he’s clearly amped by the Zero Virus that creates the four Zero Spaces that merge into reality, X then scales to the amped Zero—etcetera. Maybe Awakened Zero is a bit stronger, but that’s not saying much when even the regular goodie-two-shoes Zero’s being amped by the Zero Virus to the point where he’s likely about to be consumed by it according to X.

The point is, the way that the profile exclusively mentions Awakened Zero is a little weird and should just refer to an amped Zero, since the good ending of X5 is the canon one. Weirdly enough, I should also mention that Sigma’s profile itself even simply opts to go for an amped Zero instead of Awakened Zero. That’s a weird inconsistency between profiles that needs to be addressed.

Speaking of, since Sigma’s plan was already mentioned to be awakening Zero, he should still have the form on the profile—just maybe with some caveats, such as him needing to be exposed to a certain amount of the Zero Virus beforehand. It’s not a form we see before or since X5, so giving Awakened Zero a non-standard status should be acceptable (if he doesn’t already have it).

The scans from the original thread should also be given for the profile’s statements of Zero being above Zero Space.

Otherwise, the given AP justifications are suitable. They really just needed some minor tweaks, which bothered me a lot (especially in regards to Zero).

Zero’s weaknesses:
While we’re on the topic of Zero, actually: He should have other weaknesses aside from “mentioning Iris is a sore spot for him.”

Keep in mind that he is continuously reminded of his original purpose and suffers extensive guilt regarding it and its consequences throughout even well after the X series. He also reacts negatively to the mention of it in X8.

I suggest adding “Mentioning his original purpose of creation, or the consequences of his existence on the world is shown to disturb him greatly.” I'd also put this new weakness before “mentioning Iris is a sore spot for him” as this specific weakness is more integral to Zero’s character overall, thus being more important.

Iris’ death really just serves to motivate this complicated relationship with himself further. Curiously, (to my knowledge) Zero also doesn’t seem to mention her past his ending in X5. However, in that ending he does think of her as he’s dying. So I think he should probably still keep it, just perhaps after the new weakness because Zero’s relationship with his past, given purpose, and how that affects the world is more important than the death of Iris haunting him.

Additionally, Zero’s shown to be overconfident throughout the series. In X1, Zero pursues and fights Vile during Sigma Fortress 1 only to get captured by him (lol). In X5, an amped Zero taunts X for being too kind only to stalemate with him in their duel. Additionally, when Doctor Light gives him the Black Zero armor, Zero states that he "doesn’t need enhancement." There’s definitely more instances of this but these are just a few that come to mind for me.

When implemented, this could look something like: “Zero is overconfident, which often gets him into serious trouble. He also consistently displays sacrificial tendencies."

Iris:​

Iris’ AP justification:
As previously mentioned in another thread, Iris’ justification for having Likely 2-C Attack Potency should be changed. Specifically, there should either be evidence linked for Iris being stronger than Colonel, or such a claim shouldn’t be on the profile at all.

It’s okay if her AP’s justified by just being a reploid, however. Especially considering she’s able to fuse with Colonel’s core and she was one half of the reploid she and him were supposed to be. The fact that the Navigators are able to combat the X8 Mavericks should help Iris’ case as well, as I doubt Alia, Layer, and Palette were designed with combat in mind.

Possible New Abilities?
Additionally, and only if those participating in this thread deems it suitable (which I don’t see an issue in as DiVE is accepted as secondary canon), base Iris could have her abilities from Rockman X DiVE. This one might be a stretch, and it’s the only ability related thing in this thread, but I figured it’d be worth mentioning. If she can't, that's fine. This is just me throwing something at the wall and hoping it sticks. If someone would like to corroborate this, they're more than welcome to.

Misc:​

Vile’s AP justification:
While it’s true that he fought X, Zero, and Axl all together in X8, I suggest this be changed to something along the lines of “consistently battles X and Zero throughout the series, and eventually also fights Axl in addition in X8.” The reason for this is that using his encounter with the Hunters in X8 alone doesn’t do justice to how long he’s fought X and Zero for. He's appeared in X1, X3, Xtreme 1 (through past data), X Challenge, and finally X8.

Flame Hyenard’s AP justification:
Flame Hyenard is from X7, not X8. This is an error on the profile.

X's Ultimate Armor:
X's Ultimate Armor first appeared in X4, not X5. While I suppose you can make an argument for X5 being its first "canonical" appearance, it still originated in X4 (albeit through a cheat code, but I digress).

I also propose general citations for the feats in question justifying the Tier 2 scaling chain.

THAT'S ABOUT IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT​

Now I gotta go sleep, it's very late.

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EDIT (10-22-25): New things to implement!

Scans for Magna Centipede's Power Nullification should be linked under his justification, where there is currently none.

Sigma should additionally get Power Nullification on his profile due to the fact that the Sigma Virus is the Maverick Virus that turns reploids into Mavericks and is Sigma's true form. It's also what turned Sigma evil in the first place.

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EDITS AND THEIR REASONING

Awakened Zero is fine to include considering that X Challenge is canon. As such I scrapped the whole section about him and his scaling. Even if it doesn't canonically happen in X5 it's a possibility within the main story and X fights him there and also later in the series anywho.

While it's true that Zero is deeply disturbed by his origins and how his existence affects those around him, it doesn't typically impair his performance in combat or get him killed.

X's Ultimate Armor is incorrectly organized under X's armors in X5 despite first appearing in X4. (EDIT: It's a cheat code in X4 and has no actual plot relevance so it's fine to keep it in X5.)

Proposed Magna Centipede and Sigma edits. See above.

 

[AlloyAmi]

i think its fine to keep x5s awakened zero route because in that situation x is able to beat him, and he should be no different then any other timeline. and with them canonically being games technically everything that can happen is a possibility that exists in the multiverse. if you want it can be worked around with "Can defeat awakened zero" instead of just "defeated awakened zero" as he can still do it in that situation no differently then what the timeline follows. kinda like kirby minigames being non canon what ifs but are still based on things the character can do.

the zero space scans are used as support in for low multi in the blog

i think both the iris and origin weaknesses should just be removed, mentioning iris has literally never affected his abilities or combat whatsover nor does mentioning his origin. at most he just feels guilty on the side for the latter but this again doesnt affect his ability in combat. i do agree with the overconfident part for weakness additions though with how he just says he doesnt need upgrades to light.

rest is fine.

outside of this i really have an issue with how lackluster the pages of this verse is in terms of scans.

i also think z era should be fused back into 1 profile, its not that big of a seperation in content for their to be a split with the purpose of splits being to organize lots of content better. its only 4 really short games and a few audio dramas, and having them as 1 profile allows there to perfectly slide in an elf wars key in the middle along with the fact that they have their x era hax, it makes no sense to have to jump through pages to see them. it also perfectly includes everything in the canon timeline for the character, and more appropiately, command mission which is treated as the non canon side story should be the seperated profile.

at most like cyber elf x+model x and model z can be a seperate profile

 

[TheHedgememe]

i think its fine to keep x5s awakened zero route because in that situation x is able to beat him, and he should be no different then any other timeline. and with them canonically being games technically everything that can happen is a possibility that exists in the multiverse. if you want it can be worked around with "Can defeat awakened zero" instead of just "defeated awakened zero" as he can still do it in that situation no differently then what the timeline follows. kinda like kirby minigames being non canon what ifs but are still based on things the character can do.

I wrote the initial post with the mindset of keeping the good ending of X5 as the primary focus of the justification as it's the canon one. And since Zero's still being amped by the Zero Virus anyways I doubt it'd change much.

I do think you raise a very valid point, however. And after thinking it over, I actually do like the suggestion you made. How do you feel about something like "Can defeat Zero (or Awakened Zero if Eurasia isn't stopped) who was being empowered by the Zero Virus during the Eurasia incident"? I think something like this that acknowledges both possibilities of the narrative would be ideal. The wording would obviously change between profiles but hopefully you get the gist of it.

the zero space scans are used as support in for low multi in the blog

Ah, crap. I forgot. I guess just link the Tier 2 blog under the whole AP justification up to the stuff that happens in X5 on the profiles.

i think both the iris and origin weaknesses should just be removed, mentioning iris has literally never affected his abilities or combat whatsover nor does mentioning his origin. at most he just feels guilty on the side for the latter but this again doesnt affect his ability in combat. i do agree with the overconfident part for weakness additions though with how he just says he doesnt need upgrades to light.

It's not even that he feels he doesn't need upgrades. Zero consistently demonstrates a capacity to severely overestimate his capabilities or underestimate his enemies, as shown with his encounters with Vile in X1 and X in X5 respectively as I've stated in the original post.

I guess even if those other weaknesses don't affect him during combat, we've already got plenty of things that aren't combat applicable on profiles across the whole site. Not to mention that there are definitely characters on the site that would absolutely be able to dig deep into Zero's psyche or history and force him to confront his demons. Not that I think Zero would cower in fear over it or anything but there's definitely ways to get under his skin which could be maybe leveraged.

I also can't believe I forgot to mention this, but I think his tendency to sacrifice himself for others should also be added. He does that a LOT lol. Surprised that isn't already there.

outside of this i really have an issue with how lackluster the pages of this verse is in terms of scans.

For sure. I think we need to be better about linking scans or blogs in justifications on profiles. Makes it easier for the average lurker to see why a character is as strong as they are. I'm sure to most people just getting into Mega Man scaling, 2-C AP and possibly Infinite speed MMX stuff will absolutely confound them if they've never seen the arguments before.

i also think z era should be fused back into 1 profile, its not that big of a seperation in content for their to be a split with the purpose of splits being to organize lots of content better. its only 4 really short games and a few audio dramas, and having them as 1 profile allows there to perfectly slide in an elf wars key in the middle along with the fact that they have their x era hax, it makes no sense to have to jump through pages to see them. it also perfectly includes everything in the canon timeline for the character, and more appropiately, command mission which is treated as the non canon side story should be the seperated profile.

at most like cyber elf x+model x and model z can be a seperate profile

I'm indifferent in terms of this. I actually do like the separate profiles but I think maybe the Z Era profile could have an Elf Wars key before the main Zero Era stuff like X does since the Elf Wars is mainly a bit of lore that originated from the Zero Era. X Era hax could just be simply a "has all the abilities/resistances of his X Era counterpart" in their Powers and Abilities. But that's just me though. I don't think it'll be the end of the world if they get merged again but I actually do somewhat like that they're separated. Makes it a bit easier to navigate and even if MMZ is much shorter than MMX, it is treated as a distinct series for the most part.

 

[AlloyAmi]

"Can defeat Zero (or Awakened Zero if Eurasia isn't stopped) who was being empowered by the Zero Virus during the Eurasia incident"

tbh the entire reason this is there is due to the awakened zero scaling, zero empowered by the thing is kinda just not relevant overwise.

id just change the current thing to go from "defeated" to "is capable of defeating" or "could defeat". because its just something he could do, the same way kirby could crack a planet in megaton punch.

I guess even if those other weaknesses don't affect him during combat, we've already got plenty of things that aren't combat applicable on profiles across the whole site. Not to mention that there are definitely characters on the site that would absolutely be able to dig deep into Zero's psyche or history and force him to confront his demons. Not that I think Zero would cower in fear over it or anything but there's definitely ways to get under his skin which could be maybe leveraged.

The thing is its literally just never treated as a weakness period though either outside or in combat. there is no "weakness" to be listed to begin with. sigma already is extremely manipulative and always tells zero about his true purpose and stuff and he literally just doesnt care and just says shut up and then fights like he would normally. same deal with iris, who sigma also brings up. its a genuine non issue. x not wanting to fight anymore is a legitimate weakness brought up in the series that holds him back. iris and zeros origin on the other hand has never been a "weakness" for zero, he just shuts them up and keeps throwing hands

i only agree with overconfident and how he doesnt hestitate to self destruct or sacrifice himself being weaknesses

lastly I don't like the seperate profiles because it creates an unnecssary split overall, when its part of the same canon timeline nor would it be an overloaded anyway, its literally just 2 more tabbers in a page that doesnt even have tabbers. mega man profiles imo should be organized by canon timelines, and a single profile showing off the progression through x era, elf wars, and z era can be executed fairly well. i also completely disagree with it being "easier to navigate" having to jump 2 profiles to see hax is extremely inconvienient in general. its just a really uneeded split imo.

 

[TheHedgememe]

tbh the entire reason this is there is due to the awakened zero scaling, zero empowered by the thing is kinda just not relevant overwise.

id just change the current thing to go from "defeated" to "is capable of defeating" or "could defeat". because its just something he could do, the same way kirby could crack a planet in megaton punch.

I recall the scan has Alia implying that there's something stronger than Zero Space itself in there and I totally believe that it's probably Zero, but is there additional context from that guidebook that clarifies that it's specifically Awakened Zero and not the regular virus amped Zero? Either I've forgotten or I haven't seen it (I mean this genuinely btw, not written in a condescending manner).

I also don't know much about Kirby, so the comparison doesn't work for me personally. But I do get the overall point. I've actually never disagreed with the fight itself being a possibility as, again, it's Sigma's plan to awaken Zero during the events of X5.

The thing is its literally just never treated as a weakness period though either outside or in combat. there is no "weakness" to be listed to begin with. sigma already is extremely manipulative and always tells zero about his true purpose and stuff and he literally just doesnt care and just says shut up and then fights like he would normally. same deal with iris, who sigma also brings up. its a genuine non issue. x not wanting to fight anymore is a legitamate weakness. iris and his origin has never been a "weakness" for zero, he just shuts them up and keeps throwing hands

i only agree with overconfident and how he doesnt hestitate to self destruct or sacrifice himself being weaknesses

In combat, it absolutely isn't. You're right in that he just keeps throwing hands. It's completely in-character for him to ignore it to the best of his ability and keep fighting.

But outside of it he very clearly is bothered by it, literally proven by the fact that he feels guilt over it as you yourself said. It's not something he ever tries to show to anyone besides X, but it is there. Maybe it doesn't stop him from doing what he needs to do, but I still don't think it's accurate to disregard it completely. I've even linked multiple instances of it in the OP.

Do what you will with it being on the profile or not since it isn't combat-applicable. I just really want to emphasize this part of Zero's character that I feel doesn't really go noticed by most. Zero's relationship with his intended purpose given to him by Wily is seriously one of the most interesting parts of his character imo. The thing with Iris is definitely a bit corny and he does seem to just never mention it again past X5 so I'm fine if that's removed lol.

lastly I don't like the seperate profiles because it creates an unnecssary split overall, when its part of the same canon timeline nor would it be an overloaded anyway, its literally just 2 more tabbers in a page that doesnt even have tabbers. mega man profiles imo should be organized by canon timelines, and a single profile showing off the progression through x era, elf wars, and z era can be executed fairly well. i also completely disagree with it being "easier to navigate" having to jump 2 profiles to see hax is extremely inconvienient in general. its just a really uneeded split imo.

Fair enough. I'm well aware that MMX/MMZ are connected and are part of a larger timeline but if I wanna engage in "here's stuff that's already allowed on the site" we've got pages for Goku for the original Dragon Ball, DBZ, and so on and so forth and then even stuff like Sonic from all the different eras in his series. I don't think it's that big of a deal, personally. But if it bothers you that's valid. Just appreciate you even replying to the thread at all.

If anyone else wants to contribute to this thread I'd also like to hear. I've already gotten some pretty good feedback so far and I'd love to hear more.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Following.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I have the same opinion as Ami, so overall the CRT is good

 

[Starsprite53]

I agree.

 

[TheHedgememe]

'Kay, got a bit of an update.

I went googling and was looking for possible clarification (because it still hasn't been established whether or not it's Awakened Zero that scales to this) but after finding the dang guidebook online, I find the pages for it and lo and behold, it's either Zero or Awakened Zero as the bosses for Zero Space stage 3 (in addition to X, if you play as Zero).

I'm still doubting Alia's statement applies exclusively to Awakened Zero. It just looks like a statement for either Awakened Zero or the virus amped Zero. Which should still be good for the scaling chain since again, Zero's already got so much of the Zero Virus in him at this point (to where X believes it'll consume him) and Zero Space itself was created with a strong energy reaction from it, and X beats this virus amped Zero and thus should scale regardless.

Of course, if anyone wants to add onto this (or actually knows Japanese and can read or translate) you're more than welcome to.

TL;DR: It looks like the X5 Tier 2 argument is not exclusive to Awakened Zero so either can be used.



Pages 94-97 looked like they were describing the stage layout and obstacles so I omitted those.

Edited for further clarification.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Also, i feel like the Hyenard part doesn't need a part in the CRT, just a quick edit fix in the profile would be enough.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Also, i feel like the Hyenard part doesn't need a part in the CRT, just a quick edit fix in the profile would be enough.

It probably didn't but I felt that I needed to mention it anyway in case.

 

[AlloyAmi]

shes saying she feels an incredibly evil presense beyond the entirety of zero space itself, i dont know why that would apply to zero while hes still in his normal state but slightly amplified but not consumed by it. as alia directly mentions how its an evil/malicious energy which X also says he feels at a level comparable to or even greater then sigma specifically in the awakened zero scenario dialogue. in the normal sceario they just say hes powered up a bit and they just want to bring zero to safety before anything bad can happen. theres no reason for him to have such a evil presense in that scenario as hes literally not even evil or consumed at all there vs awakened zero

 

[TheHedgememe]

shes saying she feels an incredibly evil presense beyond the entirety of zero space itself, i dont know why that would apply to zero while hes still in his normal state but slightly amplified but not consumed by it.

Except the guidebook doesn't do this level of glazing for Awakened Zero specifically (I don't know how much clearer it gets that it lists BOTH versions of Zero as the stage boss) and I have already mentioned that X saw Zero's virus readings as a legitimate threat even in his "normal" state. Y'know, the same one that he firmly believed would still consume him regardless.

He is not "just powered up a bit." Zero has been actively benefitting from the Zero Virus over the course of the entire game and is a significant narrative threat, a fact that is made very clear. It doesn't even matter if Eurasia drops and kills everyone, Zero just getting stronger from the virus at all is seen and treated as a genuine threat by the narrative. Why do you think X needed to bring Zero back to HQ in the first place? Stop minimizing this part of X5's narrative.

Awakened Zero's stronger. Cool. But Alia's statement in the guidebook is nowhere near specific enough for her to be referring to Awakened Zero exclusively and even just this supposed "normal but powered up a bit" Zero poses a significant threat to X and the Hunters. Remember when Signas and Lifesaver discussed this exact thing?

But if you WANT more proof? They still stalemate and are lying on the ground after BOTH versions of the fight. Only real difference is that Zero takes a shot from Sigma during the bad ending while he's up and about ready to fight him in the good ending.

Even DURING the bad ending route, Sigma notes that Awakened Zero didn't even reach his full potential. And while I guess it's a testament to his power, Awakened Zero is still very much incomplete and judging by the results of both fights—is it not logical to assume that they're still comparable in power with a slight edge to Awakened Zero?

EDIT: The fight actually does end in the "losing" character using Soul Body to catch the winner off-guard, but even then, the exact outcome of the overall fight is rather unclear given that there's also Zero's POV in which he's the one to best X. Also, the fact that Zero's increase in power is yet again acknowledged here as being a threat at all is still should be even more proof of my overall point. Zero growing in power throughout X5 via the Zero Virus, even when NOT as Awakened Zero, is still treated as a major threat in the narrative by X and the other Maverick Hunters. Why SHOULDN'T he scale to the large energy readings that brought the Zero Spaces into existence?

 

[AlloyAmi]

Except the guidebook doesn't do this level of glazing for Awakened Zero specifically (I don't know how much clearer it gets that it lists BOTH versions of Zero as the stage boss) and I have already mentioned that X saw Zero's virus readings as a legitimate threat even in his "normal" state. Y'know, the same one that he firmly believed would still consume him regardless.

Contextually its very obvious. only 1 of the 3 possible bosses can have such an immense evil/malicious energy. unless youre implying ultimate armor X also has this evil malicious energy because the guide of a game is indexing every possible boss in the area, because its meant to be a guide for the game. thats why its going over each piece of stage design throughout the book. youre ignoring 1 crucial fact, and that is the playable zero route. When you fight X, its literally from the same perspective of when youre fighting non maverick zero as X, but youre zero in this scenario. Zero is objectively not evil in this scenario, X was just worried about him endangering himself and being potentially consumed if too much got to him as that would be even more dangerous then the situation they are already dealing with.

He is not "just powered up a bit." Zero has been actively benefitting from the Zero Virus over the course of the entire game and is a significant narrative threat, a fact that is made very clear. It doesn't even matter if Eurasia drops and kills everyone, Zero just getting stronger from the virus at all is seen and treated as a genuine threat by the narrative. Why do you think X needed to bring Zero back to HQ in the first place? Stop minimizing this part of X5's narrative.

He objectively doesn't get powered up THAT much in non awakened zero routes. his power boosts are more on and off and the gameplay even reflects this and at most its very slight empowerments that they are noticing and are unsure where it will go overtime. They are just worried because of how it makes him stronger upon contact instead of taking damage and want to stop something bad (like awakened zero whos ACTUALLY consumed) from happening.) X only wanted to bring him back for safety, in the Zero route hes fine, and can beat the rest of the game as normal. They aren't treating zero in the state hes in as the narrative threat, they treat the fear of the unknown as the narrative threat, because they dont know what will happen if it continues.

Awakened Zero's stronger. Cool. But Alia's statement in the guidebook is nowhere near specific enough for her to be referring to Awakened Zero exclusively and even just this supposed "normal but powered up a bit" Zero poses a significant threat to X and the Hunters. Remember when Signas and Lifesaver discussed this exact thing?

It is very specific, she directly notes an evil/malicious energy so strong to the degree of being beyond the dimension that was literally created and filled with the virus. only awakened zero is described in this way. zero route or non maverick zero scenario is objectively not evil. Hes a "threat" because hes literally the 2nd protag if something bad were to happen like zero getting potentially consumed that would be devestating as literally nobody would be able to stop him except X. they directly admit their bodies are a mystery in that signas and life saver cutscene, so they would want to stop something bad from potentially happening out of worry before its too late.

But if you WANT more proof? They still stalemate and are lying on the ground after BOTH versions of the fight. Only real difference is that Zero takes a shot from Sigma during the bad ending while he's up and about ready to fight him in the good ending.

Yeah the scaling is not too far, the entire point of listing the feat on the profile is that the power output of the ultimate armor was able to beat it. even though its not the canonical route taken its something x would still be able to do if put in the exact situation in the same timeframe.

Even DURING the bad ending route, Sigma notes that Awakened Zero didn't even reach his full potential. And while I guess it's a testament to his power, Awakened Zero is still very much incomplete and judging by the results of both fights

This isn't relevant, his evil energy was far beyond even sigmas even at this point which is the entire correlation with the book statement. a fully awakened zero would probably not be able to be knocked out of him as done in the route and would likely be permanent.

is it not logical to assume that they're still comparable in power with a slight edge to Awakened Zero?

X1 still scales to X8 nothing is too far off in power. should be noted that awakened zero eventually will just spam an attack thats an auto one shot irregardless of anything you do and he becomes completely invulnerable to damage if you take too long.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

This thread deserves more attention.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Sorry for taking so long to reply. Was a bit burnt out which led me to think about this thread some more here and there. I'll address the given points as best as I can.

Contextually its very obvious. only 1 of the 3 possible bosses can have such an immense evil/malicious energy. unless youre implying ultimate armor X also has this evil malicious energy because the guide of a game is indexing every possible boss in the area, because its meant to be a guide for the game. thats why its going over each piece of stage design throughout the book. youre ignoring 1 crucial fact, and that is the playable zero route. When you fight X, its literally from the same perspective of when youre fighting non maverick zero as X, but youre zero in this scenario. Zero is objectively not evil in this scenario, X was just worried about him endangering himself and being potentially consumed if too much got to him as that would be even more dangerous then the situation they are already dealing with.

Obviously it refers to Zero. When have I ever implied it was X? Otherwise yeah, makes sense. Wasn't intentionally ignoring it though, I kinda just forgot.

He objectively doesn't get powered up THAT much in non awakened zero routes. his power boosts are more on and off and the gameplay even reflects this and at most its very slight empowerments that they are noticing and are unsure where it will go overtime. They are just worried because of how it makes him stronger upon contact instead of taking damage and want to stop something bad (like awakened zero whos ACTUALLY consumed) from happening.) X only wanted to bring him back for safety, in the Zero route hes fine, and can beat the rest of the game as normal. They aren't treating zero in the state hes in as the narrative threat, they treat the fear of the unknown as the narrative threat, because they dont know what will happen if it continues.

I'd be very careful with trying to use gameplay to justify your argument. What you're saying could very well be ludonarrative dissonance. Otherwise the logic's fine.

That's about all I want to say about this though because I just remembered that semantics like this don't even matter if X just fights him in the X Challenge anyways, since that's canon and all now.

I guess I can also use this as an opportunity to propose citing for each of the feats listed on the profiles? I just checked X's and I think it'd be nice if for the Techno/Sigma and Awakened Zero feats could simply be cited properly (i.e, Mega Man Xtreme and Mega Man X5/Mega Man X Legacy Collection - X Challenge).

Also, the Ultimate Armor originated from X4. Not X5 like the profile has it. That should be fixed, too.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Sorry for taking so long to reply. Was a bit burnt out which led me to think about this thread some more here and there. I'll address the given points as best as I can.


Obviously it refers to Zero. When have I ever implied it was X? Otherwise yeah, makes sense. Wasn't intentionally ignoring it though, I kinda just forgot.

youre saying it mentions the other zero fight in the guide as part of your argument on why it isnt awakened zero, so i involved X because it also mentions him because the book is going to mention every possibility because the entire point im making is that its a video game guide thats going to index all 3 fights

I'd be very careful with trying to use gameplay to justify your argument. What you're saying could very well be ludonarrative dissonance. Otherwise the logic's fine.

the point is hes not treated as immensely stronger outside of awakened at any point. he generally is basically the same and its not really portrayed otherwise.

I guess I can also use this as an opportunity to propose citing for each of the feats listed on the profiles? I just checked X's and I think it'd be nice if for the Techno/Sigma and Awakened Zero feats could simply be cited properly (i.e, Mega Man Xtreme and Mega Man X5/Mega Man X Legacy Collection - X Challenge).

the pages in generally are really horrible with how they are presented. the x page literally only has FOUR youtube links, classic mega man only has 11. this is absolutely ridiculous for the literal main characters of the franchise filled with large arsenals and hax. theres just a single sentense at most of text or sometimes even nothing without any scans for nearly all their abilities.

 

[TheHedgememe]

youre saying it mentions the other zero fight in the guide as part of your argument on why it isnt awakened zero, so i involved X because it also mentions him because the book is going to mention every possibility because the entire point im making is that its a video game guide thats going to index all 3 fights

That paired with Zero's empowerment through the Zero Virus, yes. I don't think bringing up X was a very good counterargument on your part because X doesn't have the same thing going on as Zero during X5. At least regular Zero has the additional context of being empowered by the Zero Virus (that we have discussed) to justify making a potential argument. As such, X was never really relevant in this discussion at all even if he's also in that guidebook.

But, I digress. X Challenge canonicity goes brr and as such I think it's totally fine to keep the Awakened Zero bit for that alone. Sorry for starting a wild goose chase lol.

the pages in generally are really horrible with how they are presented. the x page literally only has FOUR youtube links, classic mega man only has 11. this is absolutely ridiculous for the literal main characters of the franchise filled with large arsenals and hax. theres just a single sentense at most of text or sometimes even nothing without any scans for nearly all their abilities.

Yeah. That's hopefully more or less what this thread aims to solve in the end. At minimum just citing the titles of the games the feats happen in or even linking scans would be wonderful, and also fixing errors like the ones in Flame Hyenard's AP justification and X's Ultimate Armor being put in X5 despite originating from X4.

 

[TheHedgememe]

OP's been updated btw. Feel free to read the changes made.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Kinda curious actually, when would we be allowed to make edits to profiles? Wouldn't we need staff permissions first?

 

[AlloyAmi]

yeah you need staff perms unless its some minor stuff.
also
the verse page has sigma "significantly affecting cyberspace" as an ap feat calc for 3-b but this isnt true, sigma merely reprogrammed the program (the defensive mechanic that protects cyberspace) and made cyber peacock the boss we fight by infecting it.

 

[TheHedgememe]

yeah you need staff perms unless its some minor stuff.
also
the verse page has sigma "significantly affecting cyberspace" as an ap feat calc for 3-b but this isnt true, sigma merely reprogrammed the program (the defensive mechanic that protects cyberspace) and made cyber peacock the boss we fight by infecting it.

I see. Anything in the new, edited OP that'd be considered minor enough to change?

Definitely another thing we should get rid of, if that's the case. Appreciate you sticking around.

Also, I can't believe I'm back on the whole Zero Virus thing but while skimming through it for fun, I found that the Maverick Hunter's Field Guide actually has a bunch of statements about Zero growing in power due to the Sigma and Zero Viruses. Most notably, and while in Zero Space (which is filled with the virus), Zero's power is stated to be growing with every passing moment, and even describes the virus proliferating (meaning to increase or reproduce rapidly) within his systems.

He objectively doesn't get powered up THAT much in non awakened zero routes. his power boosts are more on and off and the gameplay even reflects this and at most its very slight empowerments that they are noticing and are unsure where it will go overtime. They are just worried because of how it makes him stronger upon contact instead of taking damage and want to stop something bad

Dunno if this proves that this virus-amped Zero scales to Zero Space or anything of the sort, but I definitely believe these scans prove that the power boosts that Zero got were definitely genuinely significant and not on-and-off like you once argued. It's definitely also not solely contact-based as the guidebook specifies that it's the virus' mere presence that empowers him, where it would normally infect other reploids.

( Edits made for clarification. It's nearly 4 AM lol. Forgive me. )

 

[AlloyAmi]

I see. Anything in the new, edited OP that'd be considered minor enough to change?

Definitely another thing we should get rid of, if that's the case. Appreciate you sticking around.

Also, I can't believe I'm back on the whole Zero Virus thing but while skimming through it for fun, I found that the Maverick Hunter's Field Guide actually has a bunch of statements about Zero growing in power due to the Sigma and Zero Viruses. Most notably, and while in Zero Space (which is filled with the virus), Zero's power is stated to be growing with every passing moment, and even describes the virus proliferating (meaning to increase or reproduce rapidly) within his systems.

Dunno if this proves that this virus-amped Zero scales to Zero Space or anything of the sort, but I definitely believe these scans prove that the power boosts that Zero got were definitely genuinely significant and not on-and-off like you once argued. It's definitely also not solely contact-based as the guidebook specifies that it's the virus' mere presence that empowers him, where it would normally infect other reploids.

( Edits made for clarification. It's nearly 4 AM lol. Forgive me. )

i haven't checked the field guide in a while but yeah thats good, apologies on the oversight. I still think the guidebook is specifically refering to awakened zero considering its refering to someone evil but this actually can explain how base zero can fight ultimate armor x seemingly "even".

also regarding the ultimate armor, i think it exists and was being developed in x4, but he doesn't canonically get it until x5 considering lights dialogue

 

[TheHedgememe]

i haven't checked the field guide in a while but yeah thats good, apologies on the oversight. I still think the guidebook is specifically refering to awakened zero considering its refering to someone evil but this actually can explain how base zero can fight ultimate armor x seemingly "even".

It's all good! It happens. Definitely agree tho.

also regarding the ultimate armor, i think it exists and was being developed in x4, but he doesn't canonically get it until x5 considering lights dialogue

This I can buy, too.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Hey, back again after so long.

I've noticed that X and Zero have resistances to Power Nullification because of the Maverick Virus. And, after some off-site digging, I've found that it originates from Magna Centipede from X2. He injects the Maverick Virus into X and disables his functions (like charge shots, rapid fire, dashing, and jump height) for the remainder of the fight against him. However, on the profiles present in this site, no such justification is given and it genuinely threw me in for a loop for the longest time.

Sigma should additionally upscale from this and naturally have Power Nullification due to the fact that the Sigma Virus is Sigma's soul/data/consciousness merged with the virus.

Edit: Ok so Magna Centipede does have a page but there's no scans present for the justification, and Sigma doesn't have Power Nullification at all.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

You should ask some staff members to participate here.

 

[TheHedgememe]

You should ask some staff members to participate here.

Good point! Any I can tag in particular?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Good point! Any I can tag in particular?

Regular users can't tag other users, but you can ask them via their message walls or using this promotion thread.

Content Revision Promotion Thread

This thread can be used to link to discussions in the content revision forum regarding changes to verses or profiles, so that they may be seen and evaluated by staff members without the need of contacting them individually. In the event that posting the revision here fails to obtain enough...

vsbattles.com

 

[TheHedgememe]

Regular users can't tag other users, but you can ask them via their message walls or using this promotion thread.

Content Revision Promotion Thread

This thread can be used to link to discussions in the content revision forum regarding changes to verses or profiles, so that they may be seen and evaluated by staff members without the need of contacting them individually. In the event that posting the revision here fails to obtain enough...

vsbattles.com

Hell yeah, thanks!

 

[TheHedgememe]

It's been posted onto the CRT promo thread. Hopefully we can get some of these changes made soon.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Hell yeah, thanks!

No problem.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Bump?

I guess in the meantime, I've also working on a doc for the Sigma Virus and its variants. I feel it's worthy of its own page (as several characters should inherit its abilities due to carrying it) but I feel like advocating for that would be best handled in another CRT.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Bump?

I guess in the meantime, I've also working on a doc for the Sigma Virus and its variants. I feel it's worthy of its own page (as several characters should inherit its abilities due to carrying it) but I feel like advocating for that would be best handled in another CRT.

Interesting. Also, the Sigma's page in terms of quality is very outdated so it definitely needs some quality revision.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Interesting. Also, the Sigma's page in terms of quality is very outdated so it definitely needs some quality revision.

Yeah, agreed. Sigma's page is very outdated. He should have a LOT more hax imo (as do most characters in the verse tbh). Though I imagine whatever CRT and evidence for that is still in the works. Data goes brrr.

If you (or anyone else even) would like to read it, uh. Here you go. It's a bit messy and barebones so far. Ironically, I did use Sigma's current page as a reference while drafting this (among other things on this site) lol. Again, probably best handled in another CRT but I feel like it's worth exploring.