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Hello, everybody! Migue79 here to give you all another Mega Man X and Zero CRT after many eons of not updating their stats! This time, I bring you all huge game changing upgrades for our Maverick Hunters and everyone else in the Mega Man X, Zero and ZX series. After many years of searching and formulating arguments for trying to get their AP out of 1 kiloFOE, I proudly present the new arguments for the cast!
Now with this first argument out of the way, the next one up is...
And finally, the final argument I have in store that I had pushed many moons ago, killed but now I am bringing back after careful re-evaluations...
Oh, and one last minor thing that is technically a downgrade is:
And yeah! That's pretty much all that I bring forth to the table. Hope you all enjoyed the read and please leave your thoughts on everything in this CRT.
Agree - @DarkDragonMedeus @Dalesean027 @UchihaSlayer96
Disagree -
So, this is kind of a new argument that has been brought up. The long and short of it is that Techno and Sigma both re-write an entire Cyberworld's data inside of the Mother Computer and use their data manip to both resurrect and augment their forms. The data in the Mother Computer is of the past which encompasses both the enemies themselves and the stages themselves. The Mother Computer is argued to contain 1 Universe-sized space-time in the first blog linked in this section and this other blog AmiAlloy made argues it to contain 27 Universe-sized space-times. Please read the blogs in detail as they not only justify both AP ratings and contain speed calcs that were accepted, but also justify how the characters scale to the values.
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
The low-end AP would make this feat Low 2-C, with the high-end making it 2-C (27 space-times). And no matter which end is accepted, the speed would be buffed to Quintillions C. For the staff member that evaluates this, please decide which end is more accurate based on the information provided.
Mega Man Xtreme: Techno and Sigma screw about with Cyberworld
vsbattles.fandom.com
Tier 2 Mega Man Xtreme Explanation
vsbattles.fandom.com
The low-end AP would make this feat Low 2-C, with the high-end making it 2-C (27 space-times). And no matter which end is accepted, the speed would be buffed to Quintillions C. For the staff member that evaluates this, please decide which end is more accurate based on the information provided.
Now with this first argument out of the way, the next one up is...
So! This is another new argument and this one is a lot more straightforward. Basically, the Zero Virus' energy signature creates a series of pocket dimensions called Zero Space. Within X5 itself, we do not know how large each of the dimensions are. However, thanks to X DiVE's canonicity, we can use lore from it to help with the size of it.
In X DiVE, it is portrayed as an event level, which are essentially Deep Logs. Deep Logs in X DiVE are explicitly alternate universes. Given this connection, a dimension of Zero Space would be the size of a Universe. And given that there are 4 of these, it would be 4 space-times into 2-C. In addition, this was merging with the real world as it can be seen at the beginning of the game. How would the X-era cast scale to this? Well, Zero is constantly being amped by Zero Space during his fight in addition to him or X being flat out stated to be more powerful than these dimensions here.
In X DiVE, it is portrayed as an event level, which are essentially Deep Logs. Deep Logs in X DiVE are explicitly alternate universes. Given this connection, a dimension of Zero Space would be the size of a Universe. And given that there are 4 of these, it would be 4 space-times into 2-C. In addition, this was merging with the real world as it can be seen at the beginning of the game. How would the X-era cast scale to this? Well, Zero is constantly being amped by Zero Space during his fight in addition to him or X being flat out stated to be more powerful than these dimensions here.
And finally, the final argument I have in store that I had pushed many moons ago, killed but now I am bringing back after careful re-evaluations...
There is quite a bit to unpack here, so take your time while reading this:
To start off, I want to say that I do not think any of the debunks I and others have made in the past hold up. And I will be addressing them here.
Previous debunks and my rebuttals to them
The first thing one would ask is “Omega created Cyberspace? Where was this stated?”. Well, here and here. Ages ago I argued against the credibility of the source Hirondelle (the NPC in the first screenshot), but this argument simply does not hold up at all. He’s deliberately meant to be “lore dump & useful tips: the character” by Capcom explicitly, with the in-lore justification being he travels a lot - heck, he even confirms he went there. Given this, there’s no reason to assume he’d just be wrong just based on credibility especially when the Official Complete Works link flat out said Cyberspace was a rift/distortion created by Omega - the same thing Hirondelle says in-game. Basically, he’s 100% a reliable source and information given by him should be prioritised.
Now, another concern that will be brought up is “But that doesn’t make sense! Cyberspace existed even back in the X-Era! This can’t be true!”. Well, the concept of Cyberspace did indeed exist back in those days, but not this dimensional rift Omega created. And do not be mistaken: none of the Cyberspaces in the X series are the same ones as the one in Zero 3 for the fundamental reason that the lores & functions behind each and every Cyberspace are all different:
But then one starts looking more into the Zero series lore, and then you might think, “Wait, doesn’t Hidden Phantom singlehandedly debunk the notion with him saying he opened the portals to Cyberspace and him making it there to begin with?”. Well, no. Why? Because for one thing, he doesn’t say portals, he says doors in the Japanese raws. ‘Opening the door to something’ is just a figure of speech that means to introduce or make that something happen. Which… makes sense. Up until Omega’s creation and the beginning of the Elf Wars, the Mother Elf (which was created in the real world btw) and the Baby Elves were the only Cyber-Elves to have actually existed. And then when the Elf Wars happened, suddenly everyone and their mother had them (aka they were mass exploited). Given that we know that Cyber-Elves dwell in the rift Omega created thanks to Phantom saying so, the most likely way people got their hands on it is through that rift. In other words, the rift wasn’t created in Zero 3, but it had existed even before the Elf Wars but after Omega’s creation and ceeeeeeenturies before Phantom wound up there. This pretty much solves this point of contention.
Another argument against this is that a Capcom magazine says that rifts/distortions take you to Cyberspace, therefore the rift is just the doors. This is a weak argument as all it really tells us is that the doors are a part of the rift and it absolutely does not overwrite the image Hirondelle, Phantom and the Official Complete Works already painted with the official information provided. Some blogs that I have assisted in brought up this argument to argue against Omega’s feat, but those were oversights on my part that they were there.
“But isn’t the Zero series Cyberspace an afterlife? Where do Reploid souls go if this Cyberspace didn't exist in the X-series?” This argument is definitely on the more understandable side of things, but there is one misconception here that needs to be addressed before proposing other possibilities. The reason why it’s compared to one is because the souls of dead Reploids roam about here. But one thing to consider is that Cyberspace “The Dimensional Rift” isn’t the last place souls go. Remember that it is an interval between life and death of Reploids (since the souls of the dead dwell here alongside Cyber-Elves which are living creatures) and Phantom calling it a ‘realm between worlds’ points to it being more of a transitional place than a final one, meaning this isn’t an actual afterlife and the final destination of Reploid souls. Of course, the reason for souls ending up in this rift is because all data explicitly flows into it which would include the DNA data (souls) of Reploids. But I digress. There are other potential places the souls of Reploids wind up outside of the Zero series Cyberspace such as the Mother Computer’s Cyberworld that stores the data of the past, or even just stay in the scraps of all the Reploids in junkyards given that’s how Metal Shark Player does his DNA resurrection moves.
And I guess to add a nail on the coffin against the debunks, Omega legit materialises an entire reality in X DiVE in his own event not too dissimilar to what he did in Zero 3. So this just solidifies Omega’s passive reality warping and dimension screwing capabilities that already explicitly existed in Zero 3.
So, yeah. I think that covers my thoughts on every argument made against him creating the green space Zero goes into in Zero 3. I do not think they hold up and ultimately I think he created that green space Zero goes in.
Bare Minimum Size
Well, very impressive lol. We know that this rift shows the Moon and even sunsets, so natural phenomena exist. We also know that it is portrayed as a mirror copy of the real world, and the real world is a universe on its own. But a really damning factor is that all data flows into this Cyberspace which would include this data. All phenomena in the real world in data form are in this rift. Phenomena such as:
You could extrapolate the “all data flows into this space” to make it more impressive, but I think this CRT will mostly serve to solidify the feat’s legitimacy, get it back on the pages and give it a reasonable baseline since I do have to admit that Solar System level is downplaying the scale of this rift.
To start off, I want to say that I do not think any of the debunks I and others have made in the past hold up. And I will be addressing them here.
Previous debunks and my rebuttals to them
The first thing one would ask is “Omega created Cyberspace? Where was this stated?”. Well, here and here. Ages ago I argued against the credibility of the source Hirondelle (the NPC in the first screenshot), but this argument simply does not hold up at all. He’s deliberately meant to be “lore dump & useful tips: the character” by Capcom explicitly, with the in-lore justification being he travels a lot - heck, he even confirms he went there. Given this, there’s no reason to assume he’d just be wrong just based on credibility especially when the Official Complete Works link flat out said Cyberspace was a rift/distortion created by Omega - the same thing Hirondelle says in-game. Basically, he’s 100% a reliable source and information given by him should be prioritised.
Now, another concern that will be brought up is “But that doesn’t make sense! Cyberspace existed even back in the X-Era! This can’t be true!”. Well, the concept of Cyberspace did indeed exist back in those days, but not this dimensional rift Omega created. And do not be mistaken: none of the Cyberspaces in the X series are the same ones as the one in Zero 3 for the fundamental reason that the lores & functions behind each and every Cyberspace are all different:
- Xtreme 1’s Cyberworld: This is a cyberworld inside of the Mother Computer. The purpose of it is to store all data of the past including that of the enemies and stages themselves.
- X4 Cyberspace: This is a virtual space that is also just a huge network system connecting important computers.
- Zero Space: This is a series of dimensions created by the Zero Virus. The stages looking similar to past stages is possibly due to the stages being created from Dr. Wily’s memories.
- X7 Cyber Field: This is an electrosphere(????) located in South Asia where it serves as just another cyberspace stage. Curiously, data of the future can somehow make its way here.
- Troia Base: This is a training facility that uses digital simulations of phenomenon.
- Z3 Cyberspace (The Dimensional Rift): A dimensional rift/spatial distortion created by Omega’s appearance. Hirondelle and Hidden Phantom make it clear that the green spaces Zero goes into is the dimensional rift/spatial distortion (NOTE: Phantom describes the space they’re standing on as a realm between worlds, confirming the space’s nature as a rift).
But then one starts looking more into the Zero series lore, and then you might think, “Wait, doesn’t Hidden Phantom singlehandedly debunk the notion with him saying he opened the portals to Cyberspace and him making it there to begin with?”. Well, no. Why? Because for one thing, he doesn’t say portals, he says doors in the Japanese raws. ‘Opening the door to something’ is just a figure of speech that means to introduce or make that something happen. Which… makes sense. Up until Omega’s creation and the beginning of the Elf Wars, the Mother Elf (which was created in the real world btw) and the Baby Elves were the only Cyber-Elves to have actually existed. And then when the Elf Wars happened, suddenly everyone and their mother had them (aka they were mass exploited). Given that we know that Cyber-Elves dwell in the rift Omega created thanks to Phantom saying so, the most likely way people got their hands on it is through that rift. In other words, the rift wasn’t created in Zero 3, but it had existed even before the Elf Wars but after Omega’s creation and ceeeeeeenturies before Phantom wound up there. This pretty much solves this point of contention.
Another argument against this is that a Capcom magazine says that rifts/distortions take you to Cyberspace, therefore the rift is just the doors. This is a weak argument as all it really tells us is that the doors are a part of the rift and it absolutely does not overwrite the image Hirondelle, Phantom and the Official Complete Works already painted with the official information provided. Some blogs that I have assisted in brought up this argument to argue against Omega’s feat, but those were oversights on my part that they were there.
“But isn’t the Zero series Cyberspace an afterlife? Where do Reploid souls go if this Cyberspace didn't exist in the X-series?” This argument is definitely on the more understandable side of things, but there is one misconception here that needs to be addressed before proposing other possibilities. The reason why it’s compared to one is because the souls of dead Reploids roam about here. But one thing to consider is that Cyberspace “The Dimensional Rift” isn’t the last place souls go. Remember that it is an interval between life and death of Reploids (since the souls of the dead dwell here alongside Cyber-Elves which are living creatures) and Phantom calling it a ‘realm between worlds’ points to it being more of a transitional place than a final one, meaning this isn’t an actual afterlife and the final destination of Reploid souls. Of course, the reason for souls ending up in this rift is because all data explicitly flows into it which would include the DNA data (souls) of Reploids. But I digress. There are other potential places the souls of Reploids wind up outside of the Zero series Cyberspace such as the Mother Computer’s Cyberworld that stores the data of the past, or even just stay in the scraps of all the Reploids in junkyards given that’s how Metal Shark Player does his DNA resurrection moves.
And I guess to add a nail on the coffin against the debunks, Omega legit materialises an entire reality in X DiVE in his own event not too dissimilar to what he did in Zero 3. So this just solidifies Omega’s passive reality warping and dimension screwing capabilities that already explicitly existed in Zero 3.
So, yeah. I think that covers my thoughts on every argument made against him creating the green space Zero goes into in Zero 3. I do not think they hold up and ultimately I think he created that green space Zero goes in.
Bare Minimum Size
Well, very impressive lol. We know that this rift shows the Moon and even sunsets, so natural phenomena exist. We also know that it is portrayed as a mirror copy of the real world, and the real world is a universe on its own. But a really damning factor is that all data flows into this Cyberspace which would include this data. All phenomena in the real world in data form are in this rift. Phenomena such as:
- Time: Cyber Elves affect time by interacting with Cyberspace, therefore time exists as a phenomenon program.
- Space: Dark Elf can make Elpizo teleport about the place by interacting with Cyberspace too, therefore space also exists as a phenomenon program.
- Matter: The data Zero legit walks on and even the fact that Cyber Elves can turn spikes into blocks by interacting with Cyberspace.
- Energy: Cyber Elves can turn projectiles into energy drops, so energy is a phenomenon program.
- Information: Phantom learned about the past through this rift (about Omega, the Dark Elf and Zero) and every phenomenon lurking in this rift is already in data form.
You could extrapolate the “all data flows into this space” to make it more impressive, but I think this CRT will mostly serve to solidify the feat’s legitimacy, get it back on the pages and give it a reasonable baseline since I do have to admit that Solar System level is downplaying the scale of this rift.
Oh, and one last minor thing that is technically a downgrade is:
So... This feat, whose legitimacy as surprisingly withstood the test of time, will have to receive a calc downgrade. Since the way the destruction of the sun in his pocket dimension is portrayed in a vague way, the 4-B calc is not usable. However, despite this, he still technically creates a pocket dimension with that sun and ultimately makes the celestial body disappear. As such, the calc that got 1 kiloFOE will have to be replaced with this one that gets 267 Quettatons of TNT which is 4-C and the justification changed.
And yeah! That's pretty much all that I bring forth to the table. Hope you all enjoyed the read and please leave your thoughts on everything in this CRT.
Agree - @DarkDragonMedeus @Dalesean027 @UchihaSlayer96
Disagree -
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