Meliodas vs Natsu (Not restricted to the wiki ratings)

[HelloThere1089]

Meliodas (The Diddy King):
vs
Natsu (Power of Friendship Dealer):

The rules of this matchup are as follows:

1. You are not restricted to the wiki ratings of these characters. However you need to state your scaling chain and logic.
2. Speed is equalized.
3. Strongest versions of the characters.
4. Both start 50 meters apart.
5. Other SBA follow.

 

[Makai641001]

Meliodas (The Diddy King):
vs
Natsu (Power of Friendship Dealer):

The rules of this matchup are as follows:

1. You are not restricted to the wiki ratings of these characters. However you need to state your scaling chain and logic.
2. Speed is equalized.
3. Strongest versions of the characters.
4. Both start 50 meters apart.
5. Other SBA follow.

AP:
Meliodas upscales from Teen Liones Lance.

Prime Chaos once created the world, the deities and the races from nothingness.
One of his first creations was the Lady of the Lake a near omniscient being that’s linked to a dangerous world named The World Beyond.

This world was once created by Chaos with a mere thought as a storage of infinite magic.

Lance was abducted there and according to the most recent spoilers drank the infinite magic which allowed him to match the strength of High tier sins.

Meliodas upscales far higher than Kid Lance and is the closest being to Prime Chaos according to the author.

High 3-A AP possibly 2-C being a threat to a being capable of destroying all forms in the verse.

Infinite speed upscaling from Lance

Layered passive/aoe Existence Erasure that bypass powernull/power modification
Layered passive/aoe deconstruction that bypass powernull/power modification
All 10 commandments curses with Resistance negation

 

[HelloThere1089]

AP:
Meliodas upscales from Teen Liones Lance.

Prime Chaos once created the world, the deities and the races from nothingness.
One of his first creations was the Lady of the Lake a near omniscient being that’s linked to a dangerous world named The World Beyond.

This world was once created by Chaos with a mere thought as a storage of infinite magic.

Lance was abducted there and according to the most recent spoilers drank the infinite magic which allowed him to match the strength of High tier sins.

Meliodas upscales far higher than Kid Lance and is the closest being to Prime Chaos according to the author.

High 3-A AP possibly 2-C being a threat to a being capable of destroying all forms in the verse.

Infinite speed upscaling from Lance

Layered passive/aoe Existence Erasure that bypass powernull/power modification
Layered passive/aoe deconstruction that bypass powernull/power modification
All 10 commandments curses with Resistance negation

And I'm assuming your vote is for Meli.

 

[Makai641001]

And I'm assuming your vote is for Meli.

Waiting for Natsu’s arguments about EE resistances etc…

 

[Kaydee1648]

Uh isn’t natsu like a billion degrees hot

 

[Makai641001]

Uh isn’t natsu like a billion degrees hot

Above Lightning plasmas degrees of heat is straight up energy Meliodas can tank it.

Meliodas can erase magic, curses etc… too btw

 

[Himokashi]

AP:
Meliodas upscales from Teen Liones Lance.

Prime Chaos once created the world, the deities and the races from nothingness.
One of his first creations was the Lady of the Lake a near omniscient being that’s linked to a dangerous world named The World Beyond.

This world was once created by Chaos with a mere thought as a storage of infinite magic.

Lance was abducted there and according to the most recent spoilers drank the infinite magic which allowed him to match the strength of High tier sins.

Meliodas upscales far higher than Kid Lance and is the closest being to Prime Chaos according to the author.

High 3-A AP possibly 2-C being a threat to a being capable of destroying all forms in the verse.

Infinite speed upscaling from Lance

Layered passive/aoe Existence Erasure that bypass powernull/power modification
Layered passive/aoe deconstruction that bypass powernull/power modification
All 10 commandments curses with Resistance negation

The Lady of the Lake did say that the lake is made of dense and infinite magic.
What I’m wondering about is the spatial part of that statement. Is the amount of “water” (dense magic) infinite across the whole space, meaning the dimension itself is infinite? Or is it just regenerative, which wouldn’t really prove the space is infinite?

About the latest chapter spoiler, it says that Lancelot consumed the entire lake (which some people use to argue infinite speed). But how exactly did that happen? Did he actually consume an infinite lake, or did he just merge with the Lady of the Lake or the dimension instead?

And about the whole “infinite dimension” thing, was that directly said by the Lady of the Lake, or was it just Jericho’s way of speaking? She doesn’t really seem like someone who would know that for sure.

 

[Kaydee1648]

Above Lightning plasmas degrees of heat is straight up energy Meliodas can tank it.

Isn’t mel heat resistance a few layers into lightning heat

 

[KLOL506]

There is no layering with elemental manip

 

[Makai641001]

The Lady of the Lake did say that the lake is made of dense and infinite magic.
What I’m wondering about is the spatial part of that statement. Is the amount of “water” (dense magic) infinite across the whole space, meaning the dimension itself is infinite? Or is it just regenerative, which wouldn’t really prove the space is infinite?

The output would be H3-A anyway
The dimension is stated to last forever too

About the latest chapter spoiler, it says that Lancelot consumed the entire lake (which some people use to argue infinite speed). But how exactly did that happen? Did he actually consume an infinite lake, or did he just merge with the Lady of the Lake or the dimension instead?

Drank it apparently

And about the whole “infinite dimension” thing, was that directly said by the Lady of the Lake, or was it just Jericho’s way of speaking? She doesn’t really seem like someone who would know that for sure.

Both of them gave infinite statements

Isn’t mel heat resistance a few layers into lightning heat

If he can erase it it’s not a problem, and heat above plasma lvls is just AP at some point it’s just concentrated joules.

There is no layering with elemental manip

Yeah he was saying this cause we don’t have a higher value but higher feats

 

[Saqphire]

Unrestricted to wiki ratings, Fairy Tail already exceeds the above scale if we use Ultear being able to shrink infinite parallel universes/timelines which is considered as significantly affecting a 2-A construct (or if we’re being conservative, Low 2-C is she did it individually. Regardless, either interpretation would agree with infinite speed either way)

Eclipse Celestial Spirit King threw Earthland and the Celestial Spirit World into chaos during his arc according to Mard Geer. The arc is accepted as canon already so the statement would already be 2-C and again, infinite speed since both universes are infinite in size. During the same arc, Natsu destroyed the King’s stomach which was comparable to a universe

Zeref after obtaining Fairy Heart not only says in the Japanese raws that his power transcended time, he had feats to support the statement being literal and said he had complete dominion over space and time. Neo Eclipse, which was going to destroy the universe, was also going to destroy the countless of timelines revealed by Carla because of Lucy’s statement that ”anything that happens in this timeline affects the others” back in the GMG arc

Acnologia, who is the strongest, is superior to all of this and Natsu when amped was able to defeat him. This is also just a lowballed scale btw, not including Happy’s spin off manga statements or different interpretations of some of the args above

In conclusion, Natsu one shots

 

[HelloThere1089]

The plot thickens

 

[Makai641001]

Unrestricted to wiki ratings, Fairy Tail already exceeds the above scale if we use Ultear being able to shrink infinite parallel universes/timelines which is considered as significantly affecting a 2-A construct (or if we’re being conservative, Low 2-C is she did it individually. Regardless, either interpretation would agree with infinite speed either way)

Eclipse Celestial Spirit King threw Earthland and the Celestial Spirit World into chaos during his arc according to Mard Geer. The arc is accepted as canon already so the statement would already be 2-C and again, infinite speed since both universes are infinite in size. During the same arc, Natsu destroyed the King’s stomach which was comparable to a universe

Zeref after obtaining Fairy Heart not only says in the Japanese raws that his power transcended time, he had feats to support the statement being literal and said he had complete dominion over space and time. Neo Eclipse, which was going to destroy the universe, was also going to destroy the countless of timelines revealed by Carla because of Lucy’s statement that ”anything that happens in this timeline affects the others” back in the GMG arc

Acnologia, who is the strongest, is superior to all of this and Natsu when amped was able to defeat him. This is also just a lowballed scale btw, not including Happy’s spin off manga statements or different interpretations of some of the args above

In conclusion, Natsu one shots

No scans ?

Cause H 3-A is the current realistic for the verse

We can argue that Meliodas scale to Cath a cluster of destructive will that was gonna destroy all forms within the verse aka the infinite parallel timelines once unified fully to Chaos. (2-A)

Her destroying one timeline would be equal to destroying multiple separate universal spacetimes (2-C)

We already know Chaos powers can affect the other separate worlds on top of having infinite range within them.

(Btw 2-A Natsu would still get passively erased by wall lvl TMF Meliodas)

 

[HelloThere1089]

I think both sides should drop scans. Cuz Hitchens's I guess.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

can they beat Goku tho

 

[Kaydee1648]

can they beat Goku tho

According to sapphire, Natsu might get the job done

 

[Kaydee1648]

but can he beat shibai tho

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Can shibai beat Sailor Moon tho

 

[Zackra1799]

Non-wiki pages, huh? I'll bite

Natsu's story is constantly written by Mashymre, a 1-A Outer God, basically Natsu's got 1-A passive plot manip protecting him, as anything he does or will do is protected under 1-A plot manip

 

[Makai641001]

I think both sides should drop scans. Cuz Hitchens's I guess.

Unrestricted to wiki ratings, Fairy Tail already exceeds the above scale if we use Ultear being able to shrink infinite parallel universes/timelines which is considered as significantly affecting a 2-A construct (or if we’re being conservative, Low 2-C is she did it individually. Regardless, either interpretation would agree with infinite speed either way)

Ultear never used infinite orbs, and each orb is a specific take on a possible trajectory.

Eclipse Celestial Spirit King threw Earthland and the Celestial Spirit World into chaos during his arc according to Mard Geer. The arc is accepted as canon already so the statement would already be 2-C and again, infinite speed since both universes are infinite in size. During the same arc, Natsu destroyed the King’s stomach which was comparable to a universe

Isn’t the ECS arc deemed partially canon on top of being considered full of PIS and outliers

Zeref after obtaining Fairy Heart not only says in the Japanese raws that his power transcended time, he had feats to support the statement being literal and said he had complete dominion over space and time. Neo Eclipse, which was going to destroy the universe, was also going to destroy the countless of timelines revealed by Carla because of Lucy’s statement that ”anything that happens in this timeline affects the others” back in the GMG arc

Nice ED feat through fairy heart

Acnologia, who is the strongest, is superior to all of this and Natsu when amped was able to defeat him. This is also just a lowballed scale btw, not including Happy’s spin off manga statements or different interpretations of some of the args above

In conclusion, Natsu one shots

 

[Makai641001]

I think both sides should drop scans. Cuz Hitchens's I guess.

Chaos inf magic storage (H 3-A)
The dimension possess it’s own warped timespace where 116 days = 3 years akin to purgatory (Low 2-C)

Cath with Chaos was gonna destroy all forms with infinite range and the ability to affect separate universes. (Purgatory, main universe, World beyond etc… 2-C)
Even to access alternate timelines lol

Regarding the number of timelines it’s made pretty clear in the seven catastrophies side story that there is an infinite number and Origins confirmed that their world is basically a canon extension of Nakaba’s universe that involves timelines. (2-A)

On top of that the life spirit is a conceptual being omnipresent in every place that holds life and death across every worlds throughout those infinite timelines. (2-A) reminder that even rocks have an essence.
Here is the life spirit ******** itself cause a portal to Neo Camelot is near him.

Also does Natsu resist EE ???
Else he is fvcked no matter the tier

 

[Demon_Lord18]

AP:
Meliodas upscales from Teen Liones Lance.

Prime Chaos once created the world, the deities and the races from nothingness.
One of his first creations was the Lady of the Lake a near omniscient being that’s linked to a dangerous world named The World Beyond.

This world was once created by Chaos with a mere thought as a storage of infinite magic.

Lance was abducted there and according to the most recent spoilers drank the infinite magic which allowed him to match the strength of High tier sins.

Meliodas upscales far higher than Kid Lance and is the closest being to Prime Chaos according to the author.

High 3-A AP possibly 2-C being a threat to a being capable of destroying all forms in the verse.

Infinite speed upscaling from Lance

Layered passive/aoe Existence Erasure that bypass powernull/power modification
Layered passive/aoe deconstruction that bypass powernull/power modification
All 10 commandments curses with Resistance negation

Use Meliodas SMT, he apparently scales to characters like Sandalphon.

Chadiodas 1-A

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

In conclusion, Natsu one shots

Not restricted to wiki ratings AND Sapphire’s Gooning?

Yeah 7DS never stood a chance

 

[HelloThere1089]

We really got 1-A Natsu vs 1-A Meliodas going on out here

 

[Makai641001]

Use Meliodas SMT, he apparently scales to characters like Sandalphon.

Chadiodas 1-A

1-A Characters like Virtue and Sandalphon can get damaged by things Base SMT Mel and Ban could clear in hordes.

If strongest versions are authorized yeah Natsu is against 1-A Meliodas Gg’s

Else he is against a Meliodas that scales to Chaos a being that obliterates the life spirit that’s omnipresent through all parrallel timelines and that has the power to destroy all forms in verse. (2-A) apparently their highest argument would be 2-A using ultear but it’s shit ngl so ig they are capped at wanked Low 2-C

 

[Makai641001]

We really got 1-A Natsu vs 1-A Meliodas going on out here

No, the 1-A dude is the one that writes Natsu it’s just a weak ass plot armor argument that holds no ground in a neutral setting.

Natsu’s 2-A argument is washed too and the others come from ECS arc which is known for being partially canon and full of outliers/PIS on top of having feats that were never replicated.

 

[MountainWine]

Holy! The scaling logic in here….anyway, Natsu smacks the crybaby pedo and calls it a day

 

[HelloThere1089]

Holy! The scaling logic in here….anyway, Natsu smacks the crybaby pedo and calls it a day

Any reasoning you would like to share? Makai makes some good points

 

[MountainWine]

Any reasoning you would like to share? Makai makes some good points

I don’t agree with either of the scaling going for both sides here. Especially the scaling for tier 2 here. While true that tier is very subjective (both on and off site) the scaling logic in here is massively reaching and extremely inconsistent to the stories.

let’s not bring up any crossovers hereI don’t want to be reminded of the Fortnite crossover scalings (H1A Peter Griffin).

Personally I don’t see either being above tier 5 (for now). Natsu however does scale far higher and his peak being able to nullify 4D conceptual slop simply stacks on too much for Mel. Not to mention his 200+ million degrees heat. Mel gets vaped the moment the heat gets turned on. I can see Mel winning via some of his haxes (a lot of them aren’t new to Natsu). I just see Natsu winning more times out of a hundred.

 

[Makai641001]

I don’t agree with either of the scaling going for both sides here. Especially the scaling for tier 2 here. While true that tier is very subjective (both on and off site) the scaling logic in here is massively reaching and extremely inconsistent to the stories.

Tier 2 is the realistic for NNT lol wdym

let’s not bring up any crossovers hereI don’t want to be reminded of the Fortnite crossover scalings (H1A Peter Griffin).

Isn’t it stronger versions tho ?

Personally I don’t see either being above tier 5 (for now).

Lance < Meliodas (Lance absorbed infinite power)

Natsu however does scale far higher and his peak being able to nullify 4D conceptual slop simply stacks on too much for Mel. Not to mention his 200+ million degrees heat. Mel gets vaped the moment the heat gets turned on. I can see Mel winning via some of his haxes (a lot of them aren’t new to Natsu). I just see Natsu winning more times out of a hundred.

Mel can basically erase his heat passively it’s been 5 times since i’ve talked about it and no one actually gave an answer.

Heat beyond plasma lvls is basically just energy and can be tanked btw.

Also H3-A would make heat basically useless as they are able to tank infinite energy outputs.

So it’s either:
1-A Meliodas vs tier 2 at best Natsu
Tier 2 Meliodas vs tier 2 at best Natsu but Mel passively erase his ass
Tier 3 Meliodas vs tier 2 at best Natsu but Mel still passively erase his ass

 

[MountainWine]

Tier 2 is the realistic for NNT lol wdym

Cosmology wise? sure. AP wise for characters? Not entirely realistic for now. Could definitely be argued but you’d have to ignore inconsistencies.

Isn’t it stronger versions tho ?

Personally I don’t use crossovers for “strongest versions”. I stick to the actual stories. Again H1A Fortnite. DS is rumored to be joining FN soon enough. I’m not about to give Tanjiro or Nezuko a dub over Doomsday because of a crossover.

Also going that route leads to questions such as if an established characters 10 layered fear manipulation should be given 10 layered FM on a 1A scale because they FM a 1A. You guys can argue that if you want.

Lance < Meliodas (Lance absorbed infinite power)

Absorption/devouring/nullifying/etc of infinite power doesn’t equate to AP. Same logic could be used for Natsu > Zeref. Terrible on both side.

Mel can basically erase his heat passively it’s been 5 times since i’ve talked about it and no one actually gave an answer.

Evidence for him erasing 200+ million degrees? DK and Mel couldn’t even do that against Escanor whose heat scales well below Natsu’s.

Heat beyond plasma lvls is basically just energy and can be tanked btw.

Heat is energy regardless of being plasma levels or not. Unfortunately that isn’t how it works. Plenty of strong characters get hurt by heat well below plasma levels. Fiction doesn’t always obey real world physics and is a case by case basis. Nothing backs up Mel just shrugging off 200+ million degrees.

Also H3-A would make heat basically useless as they are able to tank infinite energy outputs.

That’s fridge logic and opens up a can of worms that leads to massive assumptions. Go down that route and you’d basically be arguing immunity regarding all laws of physics. Most communities (including vsb) don’t use durability = tanking heat. I also personally don’t use that logic regardless of the community.

So it’s either:
1-A Meliodas vs tier 2 at best Natsu
Tier 2 Meliodas vs tier 2 at best Natsu but Mel passively erase his ass
Tier 3 Meliodas vs tier 2 at best Natsu but Mel still passively erase his ass

As I said above, you can argue that with people who subscribe to crossovers counting as composites

2A Natsu has better arguments (and a far higher scaling chain) than 2A Mel and EE isn’t anything new to Natsu, terrible tiering and still a reach for both regardless

Again EE isn’t anything new

 

[Kaydee1648]

Love how quickly this thread turned into r/powerscaling

 

[Shigeonnt]

Tier 2 is the realistic for NNT lol wdym


Isn’t it stronger versions tho ?


Lance < Meliodas (Lance absorbed infinite power)

Mel can basically erase his heat passively it’s been 5 times since i’ve talked about it and no one actually gave an answer.

Heat beyond plasma lvls is basically just energy and can be tanked btw.

Also H3-A would make heat basically useless as they are able to tank infinite energy outputs.

So it’s either:
1-A Meliodas vs tier 2 at best Natsu
Tier 2 Meliodas vs tier 2 at best Natsu but Mel passively erase his ass
Tier 3 Meliodas vs tier 2 at best Natsu but Mel still passively erase his ass

Lance > meliodas

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Lance > meliodas

lol

 

[Makai641001]

Cosmology wise? sure. AP wise for characters? Not entirely realistic for now. Could definitely be argued but you’d have to ignore inconsistencies.

There is a confirmed correlation between the absorption of the lake and physicals getting increased

Personally I don’t use crossovers for “strongest versions”. I stick to the actual stories. Again H1A Fortnite. DS is rumored to be joining FN soon enough. I’m not about to give Tanjiro or Nezuko a dub over Doomsday because of a crossover.

It depends on the OP then

Also going that route leads to questions such as if an established characters 10 layered fear manipulation should be given 10 layered FM on a 1A scale because they FM a 1A. You guys can argue that if you want.

In this case Meliodas has fear hax strong enough to FM Natsu

Absorption/devouring/nullifying/etc of infinite power doesn’t equate to AP. Same logic could be used for Natsu > Zeref. Terrible on both side.

Thing is said water amps physicals (there’s a ues for nnt)

Evidence for him erasing 200+ million degrees? DK and Mel couldn’t even do that against Escanor whose heat scales well below Natsu’s.

He erase the source of the 200 million degrees aka magic, curses, souls, memories bypassing power modification and anything that reverts effects, and on an interdimensional scale

Heat is energy regardless of being plasma levels or not. Unfortunately that isn’t how it works. Plenty of strong characters get hurt by heat well below plasma levels. Fiction doesn’t always obey real world physics and is a case by case basis. Nothing backs up Mel just shrugging off 200+ million degrees.

Has Natsu’s flames ever resisted layered EE

That’s fridge logic and opens up a can of worms that leads to massive assumptions. Go down that route and you’d basically be arguing immunity regarding all laws of physics. Most communities (including vsb) don’t use durability = tanking heat. I also personally don’t use that logic regardless of the community.

I could agree with this

As I said above, you can argue that with people who subscribe to crossovers counting as composites

Waiting for OP to clarify this

2A Natsu has better arguments (and a far higher scaling chain)
than 2A Mel and EE isn’t anything new to Natsu, terrible tiering and still a reach for both regardless

Both of these metas are shit none of them have better arguments than the other especially when the 2-A meta is about Ultear worlds.

Again EE isn’t anything new

Layered EE, Layered FM, Layered decon, 10 commandments are though.

This thread is trash and should honestly be closed.

 

[Makai641001]

Lance > meliodas

Kid Lance < Liones Lance < Meliodas ≈ 18 y.o Lance

Arthur tanked a full power shining road and asked himself if Lance passed High tier sin lvl.

This thread is dumb, while the realistic for Meliodas is H3-A to Low 2-C Natsu stands in tier 5 to tier 4 without wanks or using outliers.

Meliodas have too much layers on too many hax.

Also Meliodas’s NE powernulls passively with a pretty decent potency

 

[MountainWine]

This thread is trash and should honestly be closed.

No hate to OP but agree for the most part (kinda fun to see wacky scaling again). Any matches that allow supporters to scale how they like leads nowhere. Just make an official match with their current pages. Mel has the better page format to pull a win. It’ll probably get removed once Mel gets tier 4 regardless.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Waiting for OP to clarify this

Hmm. I'll say no crossverse. So like no Fortnite cameos or skins allowed to scale Goku or scale to him. (He is NOT above bullet level). NNT is restricted to all the IP's owned by NNT. Same for FT.

This thread is trash and should honestly be closed.

No hate to OP but agree for the most part (kinda fun to see wacky scaling again). Any matches that allow supporters to scale how they like leads nowhere. Just make an official match with their current pages. Mel has the better page format to pull a win. It’ll probably get removed once Mel gets tier 4 regardless.

None taken. But also "fun and games".

@MountainWine since you didn't respond to Makai, should I assume you're conceding to Meli winning?

 

[MountainWine]

@MountainWine since you didn't respond to Makai, should I assume you're conceding to Meli winning?

Not conceding but it doesn’t matter where you add me to tally (if there is one). I don’t think any future replies will lead to anything but circles. peace

 

[Makai641001]

No hate to OP but agree for the most part (kinda fun to see wacky scaling again). Any matches that allow supporters to scale how they like leads nowhere. Just make an official match with their current pages. Mel has the better page format to pull a win. It’ll probably get removed once Mel gets tier 4 regardless.

Mel already got tier 4 and tier 3 is incoming.

Not conceding but it doesn’t matter where you add me to tally (if there is one). I don’t think any future replies will lead to anything but circles. peace

Agreed it’s just bad wanks vs bad wanks still Meli has hax to actually win this