Meltlilith vs Yuuki Kagurazaka Match Removal Discussion

[Elizhaa]

As you know, I said I was going to remove a match: Meltlilith vs Yuuki Kagurazaka but the topic seems to have turned to a large misunderstanding where some believe I did not have a valid discussion before removing the match when even being willing to wait for hours. In any case, this thread is toward rectifying this point.

The main reason Meltlilith won the match as she had Conceptual Manipulation with Saraswati Meltout (Can wash away the concepts of civilization and anything else that "flows") that she used which Yuuki didn't resist, Now, a revision took place and she lost the abilities so the match would have much much different in result. Conceptual Manipulation was removed from this Content Revision thread: Making BB, and Gilgamesh More OP.

Conceptual Manipulation is something Yuuki does not resist in the verse,

Meltlilith used the Conceptual ability in conjunction with her Melt virus for attacks which Yuuki could not resist.

A counter-argument was absorption but Yuuki has the resistance in the verse. It is a lower skill that should not affect Ultimate SKills Users.

The weakest of the monster slime has absortion and and even dissolving effect:

Slime specific skill [Dissolve], [Absorption], [Restoration]
	~ Chapter 02 - First Contact​

Even Rimuru's absorption based unique skills: Predator and Gluttony which can absorb souls, powers, abilities, magic, one's opponent strength to become stronger and information like memories which is similar to Meltlilith's absorption.

For reference, here is a usurper.

• Usurper: The ability to gain the knowledge, techniques, and other abilities of her opponents.

There is also Orc Disaster Gerudo (Web Novel)'s unique skill Starving One that has absorption, corrosion effect like dissolving, and other abilities. The key effects were integrated into Rimuru's Gluttony after Rimuru's absorbed it.

Meltlilith's Absorption (Can melt anything, physical or immaterial, and absorb it into herself, granting herself the experience, power, and capabilities of her victims). It looks entirely comparable to what Ultimate Skills User can resists.

Even at worst, Meltlilith's absorption has no feat of Regenerationn (Mid-Godly) negation so arguing she can when she has no feat No Limits Fallacy (NLF).

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Saraswati Meltout is conceptual manip. Literally one person questioned it and you immediately removed it.

Melt Virus is 4D hax from what I remember, so US resistances don't help.

Meltlilith just melts the regen. It's literally that simple.

 

[Paul_Frank]

^

 

[Elizhaa]

Yuuki has 4-D taxes resistances from his Ultimate Skill as Ultimate Skils are unbound by 2-C fate-induced timeloop.


Why is Melt Virus is 4D hax just because I wanted know?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

that's resistance to fate and time manipulation. Not literally everything as you are implying.

It eats Servants who resist digitization from within the Moon Cell iirc

 

[Elizhaa]

that's resistance to fate and time manipulation. Not literally everything as you are implying.
It eats Servants who resist digitization from within the Moon Cell iirc

The fate-loop was higher-D like 4-D.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

ok.

that's just good fate and time manipulation resistance.

 

[Elizhaa]

The higher-D nature does matter so there is no reason to restrict the resistance to one spefic ability.

Besides, even abilities like Space-Time Manipulation would be 4-D by as Space (3-D) and Time (1-D) from my talk with @Donttalk.

Space-Time Manipulation is resisted by Tensei Top tiers.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I'm 100% certain that Celestial debunked every US resistence being 4D due to only a few being 4D and is that isn't even remotely how we treat resistances. Nice try though.

 

[Elizhaa]

I'm 100% certain that Celestial debunked every US resistence being 4D due to only a few being 4D and is that isn't even remotely how we treat resistances. Nice try though.

No, @Hl3 or bust, @Celestial agree with 4-D resistances for US users. He didn't agree with 4D Ultimate Skills.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Nice job not reading what i wrote at all.

I said that Celestial debunked every single US resistance being 4D just because of a few of them were.

As in, they aren't all 4D because that's dumb and we don't treat resistances like that.

 

[Elizhaa]

Nice job not reading what i wrote at all.
I said that Celestial debunked every single US resistance being 4D just because of a few of them were.

As in, they aren't all 4D because that's dumb and we don't treat resistances like that.

@Hl3 or bust, it is not really what you wrote. It is exatly as I said, you are welcome to ask him. To clarify, he didn't agree with 4D Ultimate Skills Hax.

 

[Schnee_One]

This is silly...

 

[The_Causality]

That make no sense.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

No. I know what i wrote.

I have contact with two people who follow TSSDK revisions and they have both stated that what you believe about US resistances is both wrong and not supported by the very person you claim to do so.

Even if it wasn't the case, that's still not how we treat resistances here and you're point is moot regardless.

 

[Elizhaa]

That make no sense.

Which?

 

[The_Causality]

The fact that a single 4-D resistance scale to all resistance of a character, and the 4-D come from a Time based ability, it the same as scale a 4-D resistance to all of an characters's resiastance to because he can resist Space time attack

 

[Elizhaa]

@Hl3 or bust , my mistake he was ambilavent of about Users' resistance: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3081533#351

He did agree the Time abilities tend to be 4-D which I believe is closer to Space-TIme Abilities that Donttalk mentioned.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

that literally makes no difference to the topic at hand. At all.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

@Schnee Yes, this is exceptionally silly. Taking this much effort to remove a match you don't like is, well, quite frankly asinine.

 

[Elizhaa]

that literally makes no difference to the topic at hand. At all.

Technically, I think it does as it help me check Moon Cell. Moon Cell is actually 8-D from BB (Fate/Extra CCC): Moon Cell, which can create 8 dimensional spaces

Yuuki doesn't resist 8-D effects.

 

[Elizhaa]

So, Melt Virus is 8-D. Well, it now seems like a stomp match for Meltlilith.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Melt Virus sure as hell isn't 8D.

 

[Elizhaa]

Melt Virus sure as hell isn't 8D.

"It eats Servants who resist digitization from within the Moon Cell iirc"

Well, Moon Cell looks 8-D.

Edit:

Is there proof Moon Cell is 4-D?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

that literally makes no difference to the topic at hand. At all.

Technically, I think it does as it help me check Moon Cell. Moon Cell is actually 8-D from BB (Fate/Extra CCC): Moon Cell, which can create 8 dimensional spaces
Yuuki doesn't resist 8-D effects.

There is actually an ongoing thread regarding her 8-D stuff .. would you like to see it??? https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3185171?useskin=oasis

I could bring proof it's at least 4-D when I get home though

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

-_-

The literal scan for that shows that it isn't the entire Moon Cell being refered to

 

[Elizhaa]

@TheUpgradeManHaHaxD, yeah, I would appreciate the help

 

[Elizhaa]

@The Causality, the fate-time is not the only space-time hax in the verse.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

@TheUpgradeManHaHaxD, yeah, I would appreciate the help

I edited it into my above comment

 

[Elizhaa]

@TheUpgradeManHaHaxD, thanks, I will check!

 

[The_Causality]

@The Causality, the fate-time is not the only space-time hax in the verse.

That change absolutly nothing about the fact that this resistance doesn't scle to all of his resistance, that all.

 

[Elizhaa]

@The Causality, the fate-time is not the only space-time hax in the verse.

That change absolutly nothing about the fact that this resistance doesn't scle to all of his resistance, that all.

The same can be said with some sub-abilities giving 4-D higher D hax and scaling to all other effects of th related abilities. I do get some of staff disaproval of dimensional tiering.

 

[The_Causality]

This isn't really relevant here since no one here is concerned to this, Melt has a specific 4-D absorption which bypass resistance, Yuuki has 4-D resistance to Space-Time manipulation and Fate stuff which has nothing to do with Melt absorption. that doesn't scale, he can't resist, that's obvious

 

[Elizhaa]

This isn't really relevant here since no one here is concerned to this, Melt has a specific 4-D absorption which bypass resistance, Yuuki has 4-D resistance to Space-Time manipulation and Fate stuff which has nothing to do with Melt absorption. that doesn't scale, he can't resist, that's obvious

What 4-D absorption? From what I have seen she has an hax that could 8-D?

 

[The_Causality]

You know the 4-D absorption, the things which give her the victory before you brough the 8-D stuff and try to make the match a stomp (which it isn't 8-D)

and even if it was 8-D, the match doesn't transform suddenly into a stomp, 4-D, 8-D or even infinite D, that an hax which always work on him from the start. Yuuki still have win conc anyway.

 

[Elizhaa]

@The Causality, I don't like the fact that you brought that I brought 8-D hax just to removed match. It is Appeal to motive, while I am non-negative in reallife toward I disagree, I still don't like Fallacy like Appeal to motive used against my point.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Melt Virus always worked against Yuuki, but the instant it can be extrapolated to 8D it's suddenly a stomp?

what the hell is this logic other than a blatant attempt to keep the loss off of Melt and Yuuki's pages?

 

[The_Causality]

Well.

Anyway, unfollowing, i'am done with this, was just here to correct some false thing.

 

[Elizhaa]

Melt Virus always worked against Yuuki, but the instant it can be extrapolated to 8D it's suddenly a stomp?
what the hell is this logic other than a blatant attempt to keep the loss off of Melt and Yuuki's pages?

I mean I just researched Moon Cell as I don't blindly take statement with proofs. Honestly, I didn't believe it was even 4-D so I wanted confirmation but I saw it can have 8-D hax.

Heck I asked why would Moon Cell be 4-D hax above?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

@Elizaa i will get some scans of at least 4D mooncell. But if your on computer my most recent comment on the thread i linked above would be faster than waiting on me lol.