Metroid - Profile Update Roundup

[Armorchompy]

Yeah, I'm sorry this has taken so long. Well, the revision is mostly pretty obvious, basically just updating non-Samus profiles for the verse (there's a tiny Samus addition too), mostly adding stuff, removing a few things, deleting a few profiles too. I'll be going through all non-Samus profiles in basically random order and outline the changes proposed. Those not mentioned are (IMO) fine to stay as is. Quick note that this being my sandbox is a bit messy and has a few random notes strewn about, any information that makes it in the profiles will obviously be better put together.

Chozo​

I'll just take ownership and say this is my fault, but I basically just didn't research the Chozo back when I went through the whole series. Their lore is weird, often retconned, sort of vague and I just didn't feel like it, it was already a ton of work and trying to figure out a page for the Chozo would make it significantly more. I didn't and still don't have the time or interest to research them.

Where this leaves us is that the Chozo page as is is not indicative of the Chozo's actual abilities and generally of insufficient quality. I was going to recommend deleting it (and I understand that the Chozo are a big part of Metroid lore but I personally would rather have the page be deleted than it be low quality), but I was talking with @Chariot190 and he mentioned that he might work on researching them, so maybe help him out.

Perhaps less controversial (maybe?) but I do recommend deleting the Chozo Statue page. It's a composite of things that don't really have any relation (Chozo Statues are Chozo tech with limited movement, Torizos are Chozo defense systems with little canon lore, "Elephant Bird" doesn't actually even have a key but is an X Parasite mimicking a Chozo Statue's appearance and Nettori is another X Parasite copying a plant infesting the remains of a Chozo statue), and it has no scans and kind of lackluster indexing.

Space Pirates​

One of the messier aspects of Metroid worldbuilding, especially to index since they don't keep much of their tech throughout the entire series. Regardless, P&A is here, splitting physiological abilities / infantry equipment / other tech.

• Base pirates get Martial Arts, Weapon Mastery, Surface Scaling and a few resistances
• Through equipment they get a bunch of abilities, like various weaponry, phazon stuff, invisibility, flight, stat amp, resistance to samus' weaponry
• Other technology: Cyborgization, hacking, forcefields, space flight, the size beam from Federation Force, cloaking, a black hole, etc

I was going to suggest fusing MB, the AI based on Mother Brain, with the latter's profile, but MB doesn't actually inherit her abilities or anything, she's functionally standalone. So the only change for Mother Brain is a P&A update.

• Analytical Prediction gets the justification changed, Matter Manip/Teleportation/Regen is removed because honestly I don't know what it's supposed to be, and most of MB's abilities because they're incorrect.
• She gains Earth Manip for terraformation (does that count?), Homing Attack, resistances to Samus' weaponry. Her Super Metroid self gets regen, tech manip for draining Samus' ammo (closest thing) and a few minor things.

That said I am going to suggest adding the abilities showcased by the Ridley clone from Metroid: Other M to Ridley's page. It is effectively a different individual but we don't actually know that the latter is any different in abilities (in fact they pretty strongly imply he wasn't modified from the original sample DNA), so Ridley should have all all of his clone's abilities.

• Absorption is removed since that's just feeding himself, Gravity Resistance is no longer a thing since we don't treat Zebes as having super high gravity anymore, Omega Ridley's Regen is nerfed to "just" Low-High since Dark Samus' biology is different from his and his regen wouldn't necessarily scale to hers.
• Base Ridley gets a few random abilities, Enhanced Senses, Animal Manip, Organic Manip, Stat Amp and a few resistances.
• Meta Ridley gets all his weapons systems added and acrobatics.
• Omega Ridley gets Hypermode abilities like stat amp and NPI, as well as a few things he does in his fight.
• Proteus Ridley is lame and gets basically nothing.

Kraid is a mess. He fights ZM Power Suit (8-C), SM Power Suit (Tier 7) and Dread Varia Suit (higher into Tier 7), and the fight goes down the same basically all times. We know he scales to the ZM version because the manga backs that up and shows him as quite the threat, meanwhile Samus kinda treats him as a joke in Dread. Saying Ridley got stronger overtime makes enough sense, he's gotten so many amps his DNA is probably radioactive cybersludge by now, and we know he's not above body modification, but no such luck for Kraid who if anything is a disease-riddled prisoner in Dread. There's even a question of whether he is the same Kraid in Dread, given the last one had a planet blown up on him. Anyways, we don't have much lore on him, so I played it safe. 8-C+, possibly higher for AP based on the one time he was definitely a threat, 6-B for his external durability, since his skin being impervious is pretty consistent.

• Compared to his original profile, his regen goes down (most he's seen growing back are belly spikes and parts of his fingers, it's just very fast Mid-Low) and he loses Invulnerability, gains resistances to Samus' stuff, Body Control for his fingernails, organic manip for shooting goop and underground mobility for being a surprisingly fast digger.

Regarding Phantoon, the current page says that "Due to constant switching between backstories, it was deemed best not to include any mention of the Other M backstory in stats", but I don't know if that's how it should be carried out. The conclusion we reached in previous threads was that Super Metroid-era lore has been at least partially retconned, and even just his appearance in Other M kinda debunks the "he's Mother Brain's consciousness given form" bit, given she's dead by then. To be honest there isn't really a good argument for not favoring Other M lore in this case besides that it's bad, which it is, but you know. There isn't much of an effect on the profile though, just HDE. Some other abilities were added.

Metroids​

I recommend turning the Tallon Metroid one into a more generic "Metroid (Off-World)" one to include the Metroid Prime 3 ones like the Metroid Hatcher. I also revised the P&A for the "normal" Metroids, which I'd name "Metroid (SR-388)" to clarify the difference.

• All Metroids lose Transmutation, gain Healing (via being able to use the energy they absorb to heal), Transformation & Accelerated Development (since they can quickly transition to greater forms), flight and resistance to samus' weaponry
• Alpha through Queen Metroids get a few miscellaneous things from their boss battles, lose Invulnerability.
• I didn't put the "Giant Baby Metroid" stuff in the sandbox cause it mainly stays unchanged, just with a few scans added.

X​

Abilities are here for the X. I noticed that the SA-X (whose P&A is essentially just the X chassis + most of samus' stuff) has a hacking feat that would backscale to Samus, whether it's due to her inherited intellect or her suit's abilities (probably the latter).

• The X's regen is upgraded since their entire forms can be destroyed, they get elemental intangibility and the abilities obtained from the beam weaponry they use are adjusted to match Samus' new P&A.
• The SA-X's massive P&A is just the X's + Samus', since it absorbed her abilities. I excluded the more mental/spiritual ones, everything else got carried over.

Experiment Z-57's first key should be removed. It's just a corpse with no feats or P&A besides "it's big and has visible bodily weaponry"

Galactic Federation​

I suggest fusing the Marines page with the Federation Force one, given they inherit all the default abilities and besides that game the marines really don't have too much unique stuff.

• Base marines get Energy Manip for their weaponry and Space Survival. For optional equipment Explosions via... explosives, Plasma via Anthony's Plasma Gun and Ice Manipulation via freeze guns.
• The FedForce marines get Stealth and Vehicular Mastery and Hacking via things showcased in that game, as well as all of their mechs' P&A receiving a total overhaul. Most of the old stuff is still fine, I just organized it and added scans and a few things like superhuman precision.

I mentioned MB before but honestly I think she should be deleted. They barely explain her abilities and lore [most of what's on the profile isn't really correct] and she doesn't exactly have many quantifiable feats.

Metroid Prime Hunters Bounty Hunters​

All of their new P&A has been outlined here. Each of them has their signature weapon and the ability to transform into a smaller form for traversal, and they all share the same resistances to the weapons available in the game. It's basically all universal stuff.

Phazon​

Leviathans... could be removed but I don't think they're doing any harm, what I would do is remove Mind Manipulation because the corruption stuff is already under the umbrella of general Phazon abilities. And then there's the Parasite Queen, and I don't think there's any harm in scaling her to Samus, Phazon-affected beings get very strong and I don't think there's a reason to disregard the boss battle as particularly game mechanics-y.

Others​

Gorea's surprisingly impressive P&A also comes with a unique calc for his full power state, High 6-A (keeping it a possibly rating because there's a few unknowns, as detailed in the calc).

• Most of Gorea's P&A is shared with the MPH Hunters, since it steals all of their weapons and shares their resistances, but it's got its own thanks to the game's various bits of lore and its ability to steal and copy powers. Essentially everything on the page is new.

Samus' Gunship is a mess. She's had multiple over the course of the series, some of them basically featless and with pretty inconsistent continuity. The Zero Mission one has nothing and gets destroyed, the Fusion/Dread one is similarly sauceless, the Metroid Prime one has camouflage and that's it, but also the most showcases of its AI thanks to Hunters, but I think it's good to just focus on the classic one from most of the 2D games and MP2 and the one from MP3-MPFF-MP4. The really bizarre bit is that the Corruption one is allegedly "Based on the previous version", which would be the Classic gunship, but then timeline-wise Samus later just switches back to the model that's stated to be worse? I dunno. I'd say let's keep it simple and keep the P&A separate for the two, maybe MP4 is gonna explain the differences (probably not).

• I removed the Zero Mission and Prime 1/Hunters keys. Basically all of the P&A in the sandbox is new.

Quick roundup, here's the P&A for Joey Apronika, same for Crocomire, and here's Nightmare, who's getting a separate key for his X Parasite form, which has their abilities but scales lower.

• Joey mostly gets scans + Empowerment, Willpower and Resistances.
• Crocomire's stuff is just bodily abilities + resistances and plasma breath.
• Nightmare, X Parasite abilities aside, just gets scans and homing attack from Other M. The 900x gravity stuff and the black holes are removed since neither is accepted.

I don't have anything for the Luminoth (MP2 was where I started and back then I wasn't planning on revising every profile), so their P&A is going to remain a bit outdated. I'd suggest deletion but at a glance I don't see anything too wrong here, so I guess they could be kept? I'm neutral.

I suggest deleting the Megaroid page, it has no scans, some bits I think are wrong and very little source material to go off of, they don't really explain the Megaroid much in S&J. You could make a workable page but in absence of anyone willing to do so, I think it can be cut. Similarly the Ruins Test is pretty barebones, based on an ambiguous boss with no lore and is arguably wrong in some interpretations.

 

[JJSliderman]

I’m wondering, is it possible to backscale Samus from FP Gorea, due to being able to tank the explosions from the omega cannon in gameplay? Gorea atp was no longer restricted by the Alimbics, which were the main thing locking his full power away.

 

[Armorchompy]

I’m wondering, is it possible to backscale Samus from FP Gorea, due to being able to tank the explosions from the omega cannon in gameplay? Gorea atp was no longer restricted by the Alimbics, which were the main thing locking his full power away.

We kinda had that discussion already, we don't really know that he had his power back, in fact it says that he's in the process of drawing it back.

 

[JJSliderman]

Alright then.

 

[Armorchompy]

Bump

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'd recommend just deleting Chozo outright, and anyone who wants to remake the page can go through all the legwork to do so via CRT.

Other than that, the CRT is good, nice work.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'd recommend just deleting Chozo outright, and anyone who wants to remake the page can go through all the legwork to do so via CRT.

Other than that, the CRT is good, nice work.

Agreed.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Take a shot every time he writes "X thing is kind of a mess".

This is fine.

 

[Armorchompy]

boomp

 

[Yasuda_144]

Not sure if this is gonna be part of the revisions but the "with strongest technology" key of the Space Pirates really should've remained 5-B, just with the Omega Pirate part excised. I don't know about the black holes but the profile itself states they're capable of destroying planets, and the Leviathans are the only 5-Bs that were never downgraded so the Space Pirates using them would also be 5-B.

 

[Armorchompy]

Not sure if this is gonna be part of the revisions but the "with strongest technology" key of the Space Pirates really should've remained 5-B, just with the Omega Pirate part excised. I don't know about the black holes but the profile itself states they're capable of destroying planets, and the Leviathans are the only 5-Bs that were never downgraded so the Space Pirates using them would also be 5-B.

I dunno if I'd considered the Leviathans to be space pirate technology, maaaybe equipment. But you're right about the black holes

 

[Armorchompy]

bump, need another approval

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I have been called upon, multiple times, and now, grumbling, I am here.

Perhaps less controversiall (maybe?) but I do recommend deleting the Chozo Statue page. It's a composite of things that don't really have any relation (Chozo Statues are Chozo tech with limited movement, Torizos are Chozo defense systems with little canon lore, "Elephant Bird" doesn't actually even have a key but is a Core-X mimicking a Chozo Statue's appearance and Nettori is the X copy of a plant infesting the remains of a Chozo statue), and it has no scans and kind of lackluster indexing.

minor spelling error, immediate rejection

That said, yeah. I agree with deletion. If you want to save the core Chozo page in the hopes of fixing it, I am in favor of fixing over deletion in all but the most severe circumstances.

Space Pirates​

Don't have an issue with their profile. Hate your OP formatting that makes this a section but the immediately following pages not a section, btw.

Regarding Mother Brain: You don't specify the Regeneration type in her Super Metroid incarnation.

That said I am going to suggest adding the Other M clone's stuff to Ridley's page. It is effectively a different individual but we don't actually know that the latter is any different in abilities (in fact they pretty strongly imply he wasn't modified from the original sample DNA), so Ridley should have all the OG abilities.

I have no ******* idea what this means and cannot evaluate it.

Kraid is a mess. He fights ZM Power Suit, SM Power Suit and Dread Varia Suit, and the fight goes down the same basically all times. We know he scales to the ZM version because the manga backs that up and shows him as quite the threat, meanwhile Samus kinda treats him as a joke in Dread. Saying Ridley got stronger overtime makes enough sense, he's gotten so many amps his DNA is probably radioactive cybersludge by now, and we know he's not above body modification, but no such luck for Kraid who if anything is a disease-riddled prisoner in Dread. There's even a question of whether he is the same Kraid in Dread, given the last one had a planet blown up on him. Anyways, we don't have much lore on him, so I played it safe. 8-C+, possibly higher for AP, 6-B for his external durability, since his skin being impervious is pretty consistent.

I'm going to take guesses based on the verse here. ZM is Zero Mission, SM is Super Metroid, and Dread Varia is... Dread Varia, which appears to be a key of Super Metroid Samus Aran. There's no scans or evidence regarding the manga "backing up" the scaling, ditto for following statements- I cannot evaluate these claims, unless they're made in allusion to the scans in the AP bit of the sandbox? Speaking of the actual sandbox, I don't know if I'd count "durable skin" as an instance of Body Control. I think Underground Mobility is being tested, he's sort of just digging his way out in low-graphics, but I'll allow it.

Regarding Phantoon, the current page says that "Due to constant switching between backstories, it was deemed best not to include any mention of the Other M backstory in stats", but I don't know if that's how it should be carried out. The conclusion we reached in previous threads was that Super Metroid-era lore has been at least partially retconned, and even just his appearance in Other M kinda debunks the "he's Mother Brain's consciousness given form" bit, given she's dead by then. To be honest there isn't really a good argument for not favoring Other M lore in this case besides that it's bad, which it is, but you know. There isn't much of an effect on the profile though, just HDE.

This seems fine. Creative response, I know.

Metroids​

I recommend turning the Tallon Metroid one into a more generic "Metroid (Off-World)" one to include the Metroid Prime 3 ones like the Metroid Hatcher. There's also a revised one for the "normal" Metroids, which I'd name "Metroid (SR-388)" to clarify the difference.

I'm fine with generalizing the Tallon Metroid page, and the specification of adding "SR-388" to the profile name for the altered Metroids from that... planet?

X​

Abilities are here for the X, more interestingly, I noticed that the SA-X (whose P&A is essentially just the X chassis + most of samus' stuff) has a hacking feat that would backscale to Samus, whether it's due to her inherited intellect or her suit's abilities (probably the latter).

Experiment Z-57's first key should be removed. It's just a corpse with no feats or P&A besides "it's big and has visible bodily weaponry"

Formally sign off on these.

Galactic Federation​

I suggest fusing the Marines page with the Federation Force one, given they inherit all the default abilities and besides that game the marines really don't have too much unique stuff.

I mentioned MB before but honestly I think she should be deleted. They barely explain her abilities and lore [most of what's on the profile isn't really correct] and she doesn't exactly have many quantifiable feats.

All seems chill.

Metroid Prime Hunters Bounty Hunters​

All of their new P&A has been outlined here. Each of them has their signature weapon and the ability to transform into a smaller form for traversal, and they all share the same resistances to the weapons available in the game. It's basically all universal stuff.

Yeppers.

Phazon​

Leviathans... could be removed but I don't think they're doing any harm, what I would do is remove Mind Manipulation because the corruption stuff is already under the umbrella of general Phazon abilities. And then there's the Parasite Queen, and I don't think there's any harm in scaling her to Samus, Phazon-affected beings get very strong and I don't think there's a reason to disregard the boss battle as particularly game mechanics-y.

If she fought Samus directly then I'd consider it fine to scale them. Boss fights in general are safe for that sort of scaling, video game or not. Otherwise fine with this.

Others​

Gorea's surprisingly impressive P&A also comes with a unique calc for his full power state, High 6-A (keeping it a possibly rating because there's a few unknowns, as detailed in the calc).

Very chill with the changes to Gorea. Also a funny name.

Samus' Gunship is a mess. She's had multiple over the course of the series, some of them basically featless and with pretty inconsistent continuity. The Zero Mission one has nothing and gets destroyed, the Fusion/Dread one is similarly sauceless, the Metroid Prime one has camouflage and that's it, but also the most showcases of its AI thanks to Hunters, but I think it's good to just focus on the classic one from most of the 2D games and MP2 and the one from MP3-MPFF-MP4. The really bizarre bit is that the Corruption one is allegedly "Based on the previous version", which would be the Classic gunship, but then timeline-wise Samus later just switches back to the model that's stated to be worse? I dunno. I'd say let's keep it simple and keep the P&A separate for the two, maybe MP4 is gonna explain the differences (probably not).

A general slimming down of the profile seems fine by me. Chop chop.

Quick roundup, here's the P&A for Joey Apronika, same for Crocomire, and here's Nightmare, who's getting a separate key for his X Parasite form, which has their abilities but scales lower.

• Joey mostly gets scans + Empowerment, Willpower and Resistances.
• Crocomire's stuff is just bodily abilities + resistances and plasma breath.
• Nightmare, X Parasite abilities aside, just gets scans and homing attack from Other M. The 900x gravity stuff and the black holes are removed since neither is accepted.

All seems fine.

I suggest deleting the Megaroid page, it has no scans, some bits I think are wrong and very little source material to go off of, they don't really explain the Megaroid much in S&J. You could make a workable page but in absence of anyone willing to do so, I think it can be cut. Similarly the Ruins Test is pretty barebones, based on an ambiguous boss with no lore and is arguably wrong in some interpretations.

I'm fine with the deletions as you outline them.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That said I am going to suggest adding the abilities showcased by the Ridley clone from Metroid: Other M to Ridley's page. It is effectively a different individual but we don't actually know that the latter is any different in abilities (in fact they pretty strongly imply he wasn't modified from the original sample DNA), so Ridley should have all all of his clone's abilities.

• Absorption is removed since that's just feeding himself, Gravity Resistance is no longer a thing since we don't treat Zebes as having super high gravity anymore, Omega Ridley's Regen is nerfed to "just" Low-High since Dark Samus' biology is different from his and his regen wouldn't necessarily scale to hers.
• Base Ridley gets a few random abilities, Enhanced Senses, Animal Manip, Organic Manip, Stat Amp and a few resistances.
• Meta Ridley gets all his weapons systems added and acrobatics.
• Omega Ridley gets Hypermode abilities like stat amp and NPI, as well as a few things he does in his fight.
• Proteus Ridley is lame and gets basically nothing.

(with clarification here and on Discord): yeah this seems mostly chill. Only issue is that I wouldn't consider a surgery Adaptation (regarding Base Ridley's surgery to be resistant to acid manip).

 

[Armorchompy]

Regarding Mother Brain: You don't specify the Regeneration type in her Super Metroid incarnation.

It's a bit tough cause it's just videogame healing, if i wanted to wank it could be low-high or whatever since most victims of that Metroid are turned to ash, but she obviously stayed whole so... I dunno. I guess like Mid-Low as a blanket thing.

I'm going to take guesses based on the verse here. ZM is Zero Mission, SM is Super Metroid, and Dread Varia is... Dread Varia, which appears to be a key of Super Metroid Samus Aran. There's no scans or evidence regarding the manga "backing up" the scaling, ditto for following statements- I cannot evaluate these claims, unless they're made in allusion to the scans in the AP bit of the sandbox? Speaking of the actual sandbox, I don't know if I'd count "durable skin" as an instance of Body Control. I think Underground Mobility is being tested, he's sort of just digging his way out in low-graphics, but I'll allow it.

Dread Varia is a key in the "Post-Fusion" profile. It's stronger than the Super Metroid power suit. Here's the fight in the manga (Chapter 15, for future reference), while for the Dread fight, she basically just treats him as a joke, starts the fight tense and ready to fight only to immediately relax once she realizes it's Kraid she's fighting and nonchalantly just blasts him in the mouth. She doesn't even really seem to bother to finish him off, though it's worth noting that the fight plays out normally in gameplay. On its own I'd scale the fight but it is inconsistent in the greater picture. Here are the Zero Mission and Super Metroid fights for comparison.

Durable Skin is more part of Bodily Weaponry (granted it's armor, not weaponry, but it's such a notable part of his kit being that he's 8-C and it's 6-B that it makes sense to outline it.

I'm fine with generalizing the Tallon Metroid page, and the specification of adding "SR-388" to the profile name for the altered Metroids from that... planet?

ya

If she fought Samus directly then I'd consider it fine to scale them. Boss fights in general are safe for that sort of scaling, video game or not. Otherwise fine with this.

Yea, though it is a tutorial fight.

(with clarification here and on Discord): yeah this seems mostly chill. Only issue is that I wouldn't consider a surgery Adaptation (regarding Base Ridley's surgery to be resistant to acid manip).

The surgery seems to grant the ability to adapt to dangerous environments in general (Worth noting Zebes has a lot more environmental threats than "just" acid).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Could her demeanor there towards Kraid not be due to the fact that he seems to be restrained?

 

[Armorchompy]

Could her demeanor there towards Kraid not be due to the fact that he seems to be restrained?

It's possible, yeah. Generally she's as careful as possible during fights though, and Kraid is capable of ranged attacks (as you can see throughout the fight) which are what he mostly relies on even in other games so if she saw him as a serious threat I don't think she'd be like that.

It's not the sturdiest reasoning to not scale a boss to a player character but it does help make things make sense.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Why didn't Ridley ever use that Black form from Other M in any of his other fights with Samus, especially the one's without Super Missiles, is he stupid?

 

[Armorchompy]

I'll be applying stuff, minus Kraid since we're talking about that

Ridley is actually always fought with Super Missiles outside of MP3 and the fight at the beginning of Super Metroid

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'll accept your interpretation of Kraid, although I think it's very tenuous.

 

[Armorchompy]

All applied. I'll lock the thread, may have something else for the verse in the future but we'll see.