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Miki Saiki Part 2: Stats

MasterMewtwo3

MasterMewtwo3

91
14
Miki Saiki, being a minor antagonist in 3 volumes of the Spider-Man manga, is extremely Unknown in her page. This would make it hard to find good matches for the Winter Woman, considering she could be Human Level, weaker, or something along the lines of Building level. I'd like to see about changing this, giving her some actual stats.

Last time, my sources came courtesy of spiderfan.org and their summaries of the Winter Woman saga. However, I managed to find the actual manga at mangaeden.com. No better source like a primary source! Here's a page to start at... I'd recommend people help me look through this in case I miss anything. https://www.mangaeden.com/en/en-manga/spider-man/9/9/

[You may want to stick around Volume 9, which is the full Winter Woman saga.]

Attack Potency: We can at least give her Human Level physically as a rough estimate... Although we might be able to get a calculation on her changing the path of an incoming car and the next page through her blizzard. This may be Street to Wall level, or just Probability Manipulation. Input would be appreciated.

Durability: Before Miki became the Woman of Winter (Yu/Spider-Man's literal nickname for her), she was beaten by Yamano. We can probably assume she has Human Level Durability, since she survives something a human can dish out. [1]

Speed: Likely Normal Human Level, reacting to a speeding car and changing its course, though possibly somewhat higher.

Intelligence: Did you know Saiki Miya (her literal name in the manga) was "an executive secretary of a first-rate corporation" before Yamano went after her? She surely must be competent (likely around Above Average level). https://www.mangaeden.com/en/en-manga/spider-man/9/48/

So what do you guys think of it? Tomorrow, I'll try contacting a few moderators to get their thoughts on this. Not a whole lot of feats present, but this should be accurate to what Saiki did show.
 
We don't judge stats by haxs so street to wall won't happen

Human Level Durability seems okay

That intelligence feat doesn't seen above Average

Also, it was agreed her death Manipulation should come back iirc
 
Why would her probability Manipulation be possibly when she causes accidents?

Death Manipulation needs to be readded since inducing death via probability Manipulation is still considered death Manipulation.
 
Then why do death note characters have death Manipulation when their entire death Manipulation is by causing accidents (with is probability Manipulation)?
 
Because there they can specifically cause death directly if they wish to, just manipulate surrounding circumstances as well if they want.
 
Well, in the manga it was stated that they can simply make people fall down dead if they choose to.

Okay. I suppose that she probably has Death Manipulation then.
 
I Assume her death Manipulation is sorta random since she can choose how people die but she can accidentally kill people around her too
 
She does seem human level physically from what you've shown, and above average intelligence also seems fine. Why probability manipulation though? None of the context points to her manipulating probability, it could just be telekinesis or a strong wind. Her causing people to die could just be attributed to her winter storms, which would also fit the panels of Spider Man being near-frozen in her presence.
 
At least one example of Probability Manipulation is her first kill, a lady gets run over by a car when she tries to see her boyfriend [best explained here https://spiderfan.org/review/comics/spiderman_manga/023.html]. The lady rushes to see her boyfriend, ignoring the crosswalk, the car slips on the wet road, and all these events lead to the girl's demise. For all this happening, it's either Probability Manipulation, or... heck, also dumb luck.

Though I still disagree with Death Manipulation... Or at least the part about how she supposedly straight up kills someone. Not much is shown about Miki Saiki's power, except for killing people mostly through incoming cars and trains, Yamano being frozen, and Takao with his own knife (which its details are unknown). She's never shown the ability to stop someone's heart, and assuming that might be No Limits Fallacy. We also don't know if she chooses how someone dies, just that a subconscious thought leads to some demise.
 
Though back to the stats, what this thread was supposed to be about... I don't think there's much disagreeing on her being Human Level at least physically. Leaving her Unknown would ignore her surviving against Yamano, at least for Durability.
 
I see why it could be interpreted as Probability Manipulation, but is there anything saying that these accidents happen because Miki makes those around her unlucky, or something along those lines? Probability Manipulation is a very broad power, and while it could explain many things, it should only be classified as probability manip if there's some mention of it.

Human level stats seem fine to apply, as does the intelligence.
 
So Probability Manipulation seems to be going because of the lack of context... So where does that leave Death Manipulation? The basis of her character is that her subsonscious will kill anyone she comes across with her powers, usually through crashes. I might contact a few other people as well so we're having a bigger discussion.
 
Death manipulation should not be applied, yes. It seems like we are somewhat uncertain about probability manipulation, but lean towards accepting it.
 
Sorry, I've been busy on the DJW

Anyway, death Manipulation should be applied

From what I remember, Miki flat out states she can choose to kill someone and even if you want to argue her powers grow more unstable as the Manga goes on and harder to control, that's still ignoring the fact that she has some control over her powers which explains why Yu didn't instantly die will she was killing herself
 
Stalker Maggot said:
Sorry, I've been busy on the DJW
Anyway, death Manipulation should be applied

From what I remember, Miki flat out states she can choose to kill someone...
Click to expand...
That's where I disagree. Nothing about power control, but instead confusing "killing someone" with "death manipulation". She can choose to kill someone, subconsciously or not, but only through her blizzard or a vehicle crash (and Takao with his knife, but too much context is missing). Since Miki Saiki has not shown the ability to make someone literally drop dead where they stand, we can't assume she has that ability. That's like saying any magic user has death manipulation because they can zap or fry someone to death.
 
"That's where I disagree. Nothing about power control, but instead confusing "killing someone" with "death manipulation". She can choose to kill someone, subconsciously or not, but only through her blizzard or a vehicle crash (and Takao with his knife, but too much context is missing)."

>You realize that she can directly choose to kill someone with probability Manipulation right? That's still death Manipulation lol


Code: 
"Since Miki Saiki has not shown the ability to make someone literally drop dead where they stand, we can't assume she has that ability."
>They literally state that people drop like flies around her


"That's like saying any magic user has death manipulation because they can zap or fry someone to death."

>The difference her is she directly choosing when people and how they die
 
I still disagree with Death Manipulation, but the other parts that were accepted by me and GyroNutz should preferably be applied soon, before the forum migration.
 
I kind of wish others were backing me up a little more, though they seem to agree that Miki Saiki wouldn't exactly get Death Maniptulation. So one guy called Miki the Grim Reaper, one guy said people "drop like flies", one guy said "those around her die". Those are figurative speech being used, not necessarily to take literally. "Drop like flies" does not suggest "she literally makes people drop dead". It's vague, and people could, and probably do, die through car crashes. She also only ever killed one, maybe two people per instance, so that's a pretty lousy Grim Reaper.

Basically, we can't go off of people's words and assume they're literally true. It could be figurative, an exaggeration, or just not as trustworthy. That's why at least I prefer to look at the character's actual feats, and Saiki isn't capable of that kind of death manipulation. If she could stop a heart, why have we not even heard of her doing that?
 
Take all the time you need... Though as far as stats go, should I go about adding them to the Woman of Winter's page?
 
The wiki is locked for regular members at the moment. Are you willing to handle this GyroNutz?
 
Sorry, my WiFi was out for two days

"So one guy called Miki the Grim Reaper, one guy said people "drop like flies", one guy said "those around her die". Those are figurative speech being used, not necessarily to take literally."

>I knos this is figurative speech, but this is clearly meant to show that people die around

"Drop like flies" does not suggest "she literally makes people drop dead". It's vague, and people could, and probably do, die through car crashes. She also only ever killed one, maybe two people per instance, so that's a pretty lousy Grim Reaper"

>You realize that she's causing when and how those people die via probability Manipulation which is still death Manipulation right?

"Basically, we can't go off of people's words and assume they're literally true."

>Why not? We literally see that those around her eventually die from a accident

"It could be figurative, an exaggeration, or just not as trustworthy. That's why at least I prefer to look at the character's actual feats,"

>Ah yes. And her feats include people dying while being around her

"and Saiki isn't capable of that kind of death manipulation. If she could stop a heart, why have we not even heard of her doing that?"

>Stopping a heart is biological Manipulation

So let me get this straight

You are trying to claim that even though Miki can choose when people die like she states it's only probability Manipulation even though being able to choose when people die is death Manipulation?

Make a CRT and dowgrade death Note characters in that case before you reply
 
When was Miki shown to choose when, how, and if people die? The point of her character is that the Winter Woman can't control her powers, and a subconscious thought states "this person should die" and nothing more. I don't watch Death Note, so I'm not an expert on that and its specific mechanics.
 
"When was Miki shown to choose when, how, and if people die?"

>https://2.bp.blogspot.com/AjYCoL4Ns...EQmvu1tWkJQQwxeuvwrR-8vITvlfu07afFXYxbg=s1600

"The point of her character is that the Winter Woman can't control her powers, and a subconscious thought states "this person should die" and nothing more."

>you literally said before that you agreed she can choose who dies and her nothing being able to her control her powers just means that her powers have become unstable but she can somewhat control it, that would actually explain why some characters don't die around her

"I don't watch Death Note, so I'm not an expert on that and its specific mechanics."

>They cause someone to die but it's via accidents
 
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