Mister Mxyzptlk and World's Funniest

[Elizio33]

Hello.

After reading Mister Mxyzptlk's profile, I saw that we were using his feats from the story World's Funniest which are clearly multiversal and represented Mxy as being capable of destroying the Fifth Dimension. However, the canonicity of World's Funniest is questionable and is considered an Elseworld story, which is not part of the main DC continuity.

The point here is not to prove that World's Funniest isn't canon, as the Elseworld stories are now somewhat considered canon thanks to Hypertime and Dark Crisis, but a story about two characters playing cat and mouse by destroying everything in their path is perhaps not to be taken seriously, the same goes for the feats displayed by Mxy in this story. Mister Mxyzptlk has plenty of feats outside of World's Funniest story, more worthy of being taken seriously and I think we should focus on them to keep some consistency in Mxy's profile.

My second point is the particular scan of Mxy saying he is the same in all forms of DC media, which poses scaling issues since there is this story where Mxy fights Trigon equally, and honestly, we shouldn't use this to add feats from a story that shouldn't be taken seriously. This would make Mxy's profile an incoherent mess, which it already is, but that's not what this thread is about.

My proposal here is to remove Mxy's feats from World Funniest from Mister Mxyzptlk's profile and focus only on those from stories whose canonicity is less questionable.

 

[Excellence616]

That make sense

 

[Elizio33]

@Antvasima @Deagonx @ProfectusInfinity @IdiosyncraticLawyer @DarkDragonMedeus what do you think?

 

[Elizio33]

I would also like to add that to have a coherent profile for Mxy, any feats from him should be taken exclusively from stories that are really part of the main DC continuity instead of taking everything featuring Mxy because of one scan suggesting that Mxy is the same in all forms of DC media. This way, his profile would be less messy and have a consistent Tier.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that this makes sense.

 

[Deagonx]

I agree.

 

[Elizio33]

Here is an example of feats we should focus on for Mxy's profile.

• Mister Mxyzptlk unwritting Earth-0's universe. (High 3-A)
• Mister Mxyzptlk pulling a 3-D universe out of his hat. (3-A)
• Mister Mxyzptlk seeing the 3-D universe as flat. (Low 1-C)
• Many stories depict Mxy as having infinite power over the three-dimensional universe. (High 3-A)

Of course, there are other feats, but you get the picture here.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Actually, one of my friends had a theory that was partially confirmed by the writer. He tweeted out asking if all the Myx's were separate beings but share the same mind and experiences in the 5th Dimension and Dan Jurgens liked the tweet.

It's a pretty solid way to say "Yeah, they're separate people, but they share memories of what the others did"

 

[Elizio33]

Actually, one of my friends had a theory that was partially confirmed by the writer. He tweeted out asking if all the Myx's were separate beings but share the same mind and experiences in the 5th Dimension and Dan Jurgens liked the tweet.

It's a pretty solid way to say "Yeah, they're separate people, but they share memories of what the others did"

To be honest, I share the same thoughts as your friend, but just because the writer liked the tweet doesn't necessarily mean he agree with your friend's theory. This isn't strong enough to confirm this theory for me, and I think the best way to treat Mxy's scan, saying he's the same in all stories, is to take this with a lot of caution to avoid adding anything featuring Mr. Mxyzptlk, so that his profile is coherent instead of being messy as is currently the case. In this way, we will only focus on the appearances of his Mxy from stories whose canonicity is not questionable and which are part of the main DC continuity instead of adding questionable canon stories that aren't meant to be taken seriously, like World's Funniest.

 

[Elizio33]

In terms of feat, an appropriate and very consistent tier for Mister Mxyzptlk would be High 3-A, but that's just me and Mxy has feats that grants him higher levels.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Mxy cannot be lower than Superman, that much we know.

 

[Wrrrryyyy12]

Actually, one of my friends had a theory that was partially confirmed by the writer. He tweeted out asking if all the Myx's were separate beings but share the same mind and experiences in the 5th Dimension and Dan Jurgens liked the tweet.

It's a pretty solid way to say "Yeah, they're separate people, but they share memories of what the others did"

i actually just assumed he could transfer his conciousness to any one but he wasnt every one at any given time
im glad something along those lines is confirmed

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Little late to this, but agree with the OP.

• Mister Mxyzptlk seeing the 3-D universe as flat. (Low 1-C)

We actually don’t accept viewing dimensional structures as flat as grounds for quantitative superiority.

I definitely see where you’re coming from in saying he’s High 3-A by pure feats on a super consistent basis, but I personally think he should remain Tier 1 (though I recognize that this is just a rough draft).

 

[Elizio33]

I know, I know. High 3-A was not a proposition, just my personal thoughts. If viewing 3-D as flat does not allow for qualitative superiority, then Mxy should be 2-C.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it allows for qualitative superiority.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

I think that it allows for qualitative superiority.

I believe it works as supporting evidence, but from what I'm understand of the Tiering System FAQ, all higher dimensional objects are composed of lower-dimensional slices regardless of superiority, which is why higher dimensions viewing lower ones as flat doesn't seem to work, though I may be wrong.

Are higher-dimensional beings infinitely larger than lower-dimensional equivalents?​

In a way, yes, though not how most would think when using this word. Basically, an arbitrary object of dimension n is essentially comprised by the total sum of uncountably infinite objects of one dimension less, which may be described as lower-dimensional "slices", each corresponding to one of the infinite points of a line. For instance, a square is made of infinitely many line segments (Lined up on the y-axis), a cube of infinitely many squares (Lined up on the z-axis), and so on.

However, lower-dimensional beings being stated to be "flat" in comparison to higher-dimensional aliens is not necessarily grounds for assuming the latter has infinitely more power (For reasons outlined in the answer above), and thus, such scenarios must also be analyzed case-by-case.

 

[Xearsay]

Mxy cannot be lower than Superman, that much we know.

Really? Seems like a totally fine idea to me.

 

[Deagonx]

However, lower-dimensional beings being stated to be "flat" in comparison to higher-dimensional aliens is not necessarily grounds for assuming the latter has infinitely more power (For reasons outlined in the answer above), and thus, such scenarios must also be analyzed case-by-case.

This is correct. Mxy is scaled primarily due to cosmology, not feats. However, isn't there information that can be used to clearly demonstrate that he scales to Gods? Off the top of my head I don't know of anything that suggests he has QS relative to the gods, though. His relationship to the Monitors is also somewhat undefined, all we really know is that he is below the OG Monitor they come from and his brothers.

 

[Elizio33]

This is correct. Mxy is scaled primarily due to cosmology, not feats. However, isn't there information that can be used to clearly demonstrate that he scales to Gods? Off the top of my head I don't know of anything that suggests he has QS relative to the gods, though. His relationship to the Monitors is also somewhat undefined, all we really know is that he is below the OG Monitor they come from and his brothers.

Then 2-C would be fine for Mxy scaling above Superman.

 

[Tanin_iver]

I believe it works as supporting evidence, but from what I'm understand of the Tiering System FAQ, all higher dimensional objects are composed of lower-dimensional slices regardless of superiority, which is why higher dimensions viewing lower ones as flat doesn't seem to work, though I may be wrong.

However, lower-dimensional beings being stated to be "flat" in comparison to higher-dimensional aliens is not necessarily grounds for assuming the latter has infinitely more power (For reasons outlined in the answer above), and thus, such scenarios must also be analyzed case-by-case.

It isn't meant to be completely rejected. It just needs to be analyzed case by case. Viewing as flat can be argued for something like HDE too, imo.

 

[Deagonx]

It isn't meant to be completely rejected. It just needs to be analyzed case by case. Viewing as flat can be argued for something like HDE too, imo.

He's not saying it's rejected per se, but it isn't sufficient in and of itself. We'd need further evidence suggesting QS.

 

[Elizio33]

Back on the topic, three agree for now.

 

[Duedate8898]

Sorry, is this supposed to be in the wiki management section, this looks like a CRT?

 

[Elizio33]

Sorry, is this supposed to be in the wiki management section, this looks like a CRT?

My bad. I just moved this thread to crt. Thank you.

 

[Elizio33]

Here is an example of feats we should focus on for Mxy's profile.

• Mister Mxyzptlk unwritting Earth-0's universe. (High 3-A)
• Mister Mxyzptlk pulling a 3-D universe out of his hat. (3-A)
• Mister Mxyzptlk seeing the 3-D universe as flat. (Low 1-C)
• Many stories depict Mxy as having infinite power over the three-dimensional universe. (High 3-A)

Of course, there are other feats, but you get the picture here.

On this basis, here is my proposal.

Low Multiverse level (Mister Mxyzptlk is one of the two most powerful imps in the Fifth Dimension and one of the most dangerous beings in existence, repeatedly presented as superior to Superman, regardless of continuity. A cage made from the same Black Diamond capable of containing Eclipso was not enough to contain Mxy's power to spread across Metropolis. With 99% of his power, Joker was able to warp the Universe, Hell and Heaven and take over the Quintessence and Darkseid with the Anti-Life Equation, followed by the Spectre)

Note that Emperor Joker reshaped the universe in his image but stated that he could not put the universe back together and that it took five hours to repair the damage the Joker caused to space-time. This shouldn't be ignored.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Why should it not be taken seriously? Mxy isn't a serious character

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Low Multiverse level (Mister Mxyzptlk is one of the two most powerful imps in the Fifth Dimension and one of the most dangerous beings in existence, repeatedly presented as superior to Superman, regardless of continuity. A cage made from the same Black Diamond capable of containing Eclipso was not enough to contain Mxy's power to spread across Metropolis. With 99% of his power, Joker was able to warp the Universe, Hell and Heaven and take over the Quintessence and Darkseid with the Anti-Life Equation, followed by the Spectre)

For supporting evidence Mxy was said to be more powerful than everyone on Earth upon entering the third dimension (Superman Volume 2 #11)

He definitely shouldn’t be any lower than Tier 2.

 

[Eseseso]

Little late to this, but agree with the OP.

We actually don’t accept viewing dimensional structures as flat as grounds for quantitative superiority.

Really? Huh.

Anyways, given all the statements of him being 5-D in-story, I don't feel comfortable with making him lower than Low 1-C.

The point here is not to prove that World's Funniest isn't canon, as the Elseworld stories are now somewhat considered canon thanks to Hypertime and Dark Crisis, but a story about two characters playing cat and mouse by destroying everything in their path is perhaps not to be taken seriously, the same goes for the feats displayed by Mxy in this story. Mister Mxyzptlk has plenty of feats outside of World's Funniest story, more worthy of being taken seriously and I think we should focus on them to keep some consistency in Mxy's profile.

My second point is the particular scan of Mxy saying he is the same in all forms of DC media, which poses scaling issues since there is this story where Mxy fights Trigon equally, and honestly, we shouldn't use this to add feats from a story that shouldn't be taken seriously. This would make Mxy's profile an incoherent mess, which it already is, but that's not what this thread is about.

My proposal here is to remove Mxy's feats from World Funniest from Mister Mxyzptlk's profile and focus only on those from stories whose canonicity is less questionable.

This, however, makes sense.

Question, what will happen to his High 1-C key?

 

[Elizio33]

Really? Huh.

Anyways, given all the statements of him being 5-D in-story, I don't feel comfortable with making him lower than Low 1-C.

This, however, makes sense.

Question, what will happen to his High 1-C key?

His High 1-C key should be downgraded to 2-C as well.

 

[Eseseso]

His High 1-C key should be downgraded to 2-C as well.

So won't this downgrade the cosmology?

 

[Elizio33]

So won't this downgrade the cosmology?

Not necessarily. He shouldn't scale to the Fifth Dimension.

 

[Elizio33]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I read the newest issue of "World's Finest" yesterday, in which Bat-Mite was able to ascend himself, Superman, and Batman to 6-dimensional hypertime, and I also do not think that it makes sense for Mxyzptlk to be lower than Low 1-C, given how The Joker with his power could easily overwhelm characters such as The Spectre and rewrite an entire continuum, and that the higher dimensions in DC Comics wer treated as higher infinities in Grant Morrison's "Crisis Times Five".

 

[Elizio33]

Well, I read the newest issue of "World's Finest" yesterday, in which Bat-Mite was able to ascend himself, Superman, and Batman to 6-dimensional hypertime, and I also do not think that it makes sense for Mxyzptlk to be lower than Low 1-C, given how The Joker with his power could easily overwhelm characters such as The Spectre and rewrite an entire continuum, and that the higher dimensions in DC Comics wer treated as higher infinities in Grant Morrison's "Crisis Times Five".

I just saw the comic and Bat-Mite went to the Sixth Dimension but I don't know if it's the same one where the Monitor Brothers live since it's where time exists all at once. Regardless, Low 1-C would make sense.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it was intended to be Grant Morrison's cubed hypertime, given that that is how it was described.

 

[Elizio33]

I think that it was intended to be Grant Morrison's cubed hypertime, given that that is how it was described.

Makes sense.

 

[Elizio33]

The question is that Mister Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite should scale to the true nature of Hypertime which is High 1-C in our DC Cosmology blog or should they be Low 1-C?

 

[Antvasima]

Good question. Probably Low 1-C normally, and High 1-C by ascending to hypertime level in that case, but I do not know. Further evaluations would be very appreciated.

@Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Emirp sumitpo @Firestorm808 @Deagonx

 

[Elizio33]

I think "Low 1-C normally. High 1-C with Dimensional Manipulation" could work

 

[Elizio33]

Are we sure Bat-Mite or Mxy can destroy at the Hypertime level? If no, then i think Low 1-C alone would be fine since they shouldn't scale to the Fifth Dimension.