Molecule Man upgrades

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will unlock the page again. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Ok, I should be done

 

[PsychoWarper]

If you want you can look it over, Molecule Ma

 

[Antvasima]

It seems fine except that he should still likely have human physical strength after the post-Beyonders retcon.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Alright, I can do that

 

[PsychoWarper]

Ok done.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Is there anything left to do here?

 

[Wokistan]

I can go shoot Lucky a message and ask him if he feels like defending his claim of 1-A physicality on third key.

 

[PsychoWarper]

I personally think he should stay like that due to absorbing a 1-As powers but im fairly neutral.

 

[Wokistan]

He said he was looking for stuff with another verse rn, you can probably close this.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

https://imgur.com/CsYYvGe

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Owen being defeated by a low level cosmic entity in that story was an outlier, so I am not sure if we should scale from it.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

huh? Where did you get that? Griever of all things isn't a low level cosmic Entity. it is arguably stronger than beyonders themselves and is theorized to be an abstract as well.

 

[Antvasima]

It is theorised to be a similar entity to the In-Betweener, i.e. a function of the reality that the Molecule Man created, only demonstrated the ability to destroy universes, and cannot even travel between them under its own power. Owen losing to it is an extreme degree of plot-induced stupidity.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

It was never stated she is similar to In-betweener it is stated that she have similar existence to the abstract which includes eternity and all other.

Griever isn't a function created by MoleculeMan. The Griever represent the end of the multiverse. And yes she was capable to destroy universes but also that wasn't her true power as it was stated she can end the multiverse itself. As she embodies the endpoint of all existence and to be the last entity in all existence. She even destroyed Reed Hope and the Solution to everything. (Her existence seems very similar to that of Chaos King and oblivion.)

It was also stated she is the strongest threat to the multiverse, which includes Chaos King and Beyonders.

Not able to travel universes has nothing to do with power tho.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

And according to Marvel she also existed before Time itself. (So Molecule man could never create her.) and stated to alter and destroy energy, time, space, reality, and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH6eXFia_j8

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

So is griever related to oblivion their concepts are similiar

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Well yeah both are kinda the end of the multiverse and have a nature to destroy the multiverse.

Griever is entropy and heatdeath.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Marvel already has an abstract of entropy

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Yup

 

[Antvasima]

Existing since before time immemorial is not the same as existing before the concept of time itself, and if she is an avatar of Entropy, who is established as one of the "children" of Eternity, she shouldn't remotely be able to exceed the power of the Beyonders.

As for being able to destroy space and time on a universal scale, even tier 2 characters can do that.

If she is an avatar of Oblivion, I could see her defeating MM though.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

She isn't not an avatar of entropy Anyway I have showed proof she is far above tier 2.

 

[Antvasima]

Where was it stated that she can destroy the multiverse? And wouldn't her shown restriction of only being able to destroy the universe she is stranded in at the moment contradict that? If she could just destroy everything at once, that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

She wasn't even fully powered.

Based on that logic Chaos King and many more has such restriction.

 

[Antvasima]

No, Chaos King did destroy most of the multiverse. Griever displayed clear limitations in her scale of influence.

 

[Antvasima]

Where was it stated that she wasn't fully powered or could destroy the multiverse?

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Chaos King destroyed the multiverse via chain reaction. He destoyed realms by realms and universe by universe till there was only 98% left.

 

[Wokistan]

Chaos King was also said to be the equal opposite of eternity by eternity though, and eternity is the multiverse.

 

[Antvasima]

He did it too quickly to eventually have done it one by one. He must have spread his influence at a beyond infinitely quick pace.

 

[PsychoWarper]

@Tetro I think Ant wants scans for when "it was stated that she wasn't fully powered" and when "it was started she could destroy the multiverse"

 

[Wokistan]

To destroy something infinite over time, you still have to at some point destroy something infinite. Don't think over time really can be applied to stuff 2-A and above.

 

[Antvasima]

@Wokistan

Agreed.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Chaos King was also said to be the equal opposite of eternity by eternity though, and eternity is the multiverse.

So was Griever. She was compared to be one of them abstracts. Her nature is to be the last last entity. And is stated to be the biggest threat to the multiverse by read himself. (Who is aware of the beyonders and CK.)

 

[Shivansh_Garg]

A lot of things here

1) Griever only wanted to destroy the new Universes that Franklin and Owen added to the Multiverse after Secret Wars, and she did so effortlessly

2) She had advantage over Owen due to her nature as a reality destroyer and Owen's physical structure was closely related to that of reality

3) She was stated to be the greatest threat ever to the Multiverse by Reed, yes

I don't have time to dig the scans, so I am simply going to link the exact couple of issues needed to sort out this topic, issue 2 and issue 3