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Mordecai and Rigby 3.A/3.B Upgrade

KingNanaya said:
I disagree with @Eficiente because he's right
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Can't tell if that's a joke on how badly structured sentences have been so far or if you do disagree with me.
Rau said:
you should look at the photo it is similar and same as the case given to Lirc. The black holes formed by the average Lirc are taken as High 4-C.
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You are missing both a "," there and a pause to think about how you convey what you mean based on what you say. Idk what you mean by "Lirc", it sounded before like you said "iirc", rather than say "you should look" and not explain anything you could link your source and explain what it is that you are talking about, properly.

But either way, anyone can draw a black hole like that, it doesn't mean anything.
Rau said:
There are 2 things going on about the black hole. The size of the black hole in the picture and that it can destroy the universe. We have to start with these two.
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I have no idea at what position you are left because you don't explain anything, did you see how using that image as something that gives the black hole its size was wrong yes or no? Don't divert from that.
Rau said:
Man, I'm not saying anything about deflecting the subject. I'm using the most probable case there. it has nothing to do with our black hole.
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Please pay attention, I didn't say that you said something "about deflecting the subject", I said you "deflected the subject", and you both don't see it and don't see it as an issue. You rambled about characteristics the black hole didn't have, refused to care when called out twice and portrayed your efforts about it in a positive manner. You are unaware of your own actions.
Rau said:
Man, I bet you didn't read my thread. The proof of the argument you say "not based on evidence/no evidence" is the video right below.
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I clearly read it, understood it, and disagreed with it, as anyone would conclude from my comments.
Rau said:
I guess you don't know how it concerns the universe. Finally, the judge said that the fate of the universe depended on it, that is, he could clearly destroy the universe. a black hole created by coolness and capable of destroying everything along with the universe. If it was as you say, it would only destroy coolness, not the universe.
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As before, you are under the impression that since I disagree with you, it must be that I didn't see everything you saw, rather than take in good faith that I saw the things you did show. A black hole that sucks coolness can threaten the fate of the universe w/o destroying the universe itself, the only reason why you said the latter is because you can't conceive how it could threaten the fate of the universe otherwise, as if those were magic words that always have to be "X will be one-shotted" w/o alternatives that fit what the words mean. So it falls back to pure feelings, but we don't work like that.
Rau said:
The purpose of the topic is to give Mordecai and Rigbye the 3-A level. so it's most logical for me to refer to the evidence the judge said. I have to emphasize that the black hole will destroy the universe along with its coolness. If it destroys the universe, it becomes a real black hole.

Black hole spawn range is enough to destroy the universe. Mordecai and Rigby created this black hole. You say to me that he just attracts coolness, but the ruler says he can destroy the universe.
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The bit before covers that.

Even there, be aware that this wouldn't have made them 3-A anyway
  • like I said before, that I do have solid reasons to think you didn't see, there is no timeframe for this even if it was going to destroy the universe.
  • something can destroy the universe w/o being a true black hole, "it's powerful, therefore it has to follow real life math" is just giving up, the black hole again sucks in coolness and was created by coolness.
  • This would have been something Mordecai & Rigbye can do othertime (with prep time) and the tier would be given to the black hole itself, not their regular AP & durability. I don't know if you already knew this or no, which you should please see as an issue to be fixed.
 
Eficiente said:
It was funny, I himself just didn't know if it was a joke given the context of the whole thread.
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I will speak briefly. You wrote so much, all you said is that the black hole suffers from cold blood, so there is no physical condition. dude it's physical since you can destroy the universe. It shouldn't be this hard to understand.
 
Eficiente said:
Can't tell if that's a joke on how badly structured sentences have been so far or if you do disagree with me.

You are missing both a "," there and a pause to think about how you convey what you mean based on what you say. Idk what you mean by "Lirc", it sounded before like you said "iirc", rather than say "you should look" and not explain anything you could link your source and explain what it is that you are talking about, properly.

But either way, anyone can draw a black hole like that, it doesn't mean anything.

I have no idea at what position you are left because you don't explain anything, did you see how using that image as something that gives the black hole its size was wrong yes or no? Don't divert from that.

Please pay attention, I didn't say that you said something "about deflecting the subject", I said you "deflected the subject", and you both don't see it and don't see it as an issue. You rambled about characteristics the black hole didn't have, refused to care when called out twice and portrayed your efforts about it in a positive manner. You are unaware of your own actions.

I clearly read it, understood it, and disagreed with it, as anyone would conclude from my comments.

As before, you are under the impression that since I disagree with you, it must be that I didn't see everything you saw, rather than take in good faith that I saw the things you did show. A black hole that sucks coolness can threaten the fate of the universe w/o destroying the universe itself, the only reason why you said the latter is because you can't conceive how it could threaten the fate of the universe otherwise, as if those were magic words that always have to be "X will be one-shotted" w/o alternatives that fit what the words mean. So it falls back to pure feelings, but we don't work like that.

The bit before covers that.

Even there, be aware that this wouldn't have made them 3-A anyway
  • like I said before, that I do have solid reasons to think you didn't see, there is no timeframe for this even if it was going to destroy the universe.
  • something can destroy the universe w/o being a true black hole, "it's powerful, therefore it has to follow real life math" is just giving up, the black hole again sucks in coolness and was created by coolness.
  • This would have been something Mordecai & Rigbye can do othertime (with prep time) and the tier would be given to the black hole itself, not their regular AP & durability. I don't know if you already knew this or no, which you should please see as an issue to be fixed.
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1- The size of the black hole is there, my friend, you seem to be refusing to accept the crt just for the sake of not accepting it. The black hole is in a position to destroy the universe. We have to accept this because there is no other context.

2-I gave a sentence in response to what you said. There is proof of everything I say. I suggest you reconsider the CRT. If there's any proof you want, I can throw it in here, but it's better you say it than mock it.

3-Can you write clearly which ones you disagree with?

4-Without further ado, the black hole is just a threat. but the judge doesn't say things like "Can destroy" there. It is obvious that the fate of the universe depends on it and that if that black hole is formed, it will destroy the universe. You sound like Bill Cipher H1.C.

5- Think of the black hole as a weapon of Mordecai and Rigby. Mordecai and Rigby can create more than that, it's exclusive to them. There are characters who create a black hole and get a lot of tier.
 
This is very difficult, you show little understanding of what my points are and what I mean on what I write, what you write doesn't come off as if it's even part of the same conversation. Reply to all of that again, connect what you say to what I said and actually say why it is that you disagree, don't just act that you're just already right on everything.

If I were to reply to that I would just repeat what I said twice, which you didn't understand the first time, because you portray what I say as something else entirely or ignore what I say to talk about other stuff. You can't even get over saying that the black hole will destroy the universe over and over and over, it doesn't make it any more legit that you do that and you obviously already communicated that this is your interpretation of what the black hole will do.
Rau said:
3-Can you write clearly which ones you disagree with?
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You would not need to say this if you had replied to my comments while trying to understand them, like any other user would.

Lastly, you say things like "I bet you didn't read my thread", "you seem to be refusing to accept the crt just for the sake of not accepting it", and "You sound like Bill Cipher H1.C.", and this are all things that in a vacuum could be said while one is right, but in experience I have seen many of certain types of users point out fallacies and things like this when that's not the case at all, all basically being them not putting too much thought into the matter, sticking to what they believe only, and feeling somewhat entitled to it because of that extra wrong thing the opposition did; I fear you may be more on this route than not, as I don't see what you do as normal in way that's not simply a regular lack of attention, as this takes negative extra steps from that. Those connotations you make need to come from a place of understanding of the situation, it's not just "a thing that people do, therefore I can do it too", you need to have what they have when doing so.
 
Eficiente said:
This is very difficult, you show little understanding of what my points are and what I mean on what I write, what you write doesn't come off as if it's even part of the same conversation. Reply to all of that again, connect what you say to what I said and actually say why it is that you disagree, don't just act that you're just already right on everything.
Click to expand...
I already answered the things you tried to explain, most of them were above, it was very obvious that you were just writing to write.


Eficiente said:
If I were to reply to that I would just repeat what I said twice, which you didn't understand the first time, because you portray what I say as something else entirely or ignore what I say to talk about other stuff. You can't even get over saying that the black hole will destroy the universe over and over and over, it doesn't make it any more legit that you do that and you obviously already communicated that this is your interpretation of what the black hole will do.
Click to expand...
Your argument: A black hole only attracts coolness.

My argument is: no, the judge states that towards the end it can destroy the universe, that is, it can contain physical destruction.

That's what you wrote.


Eficiente said:
Lastly, you say things like "I bet you didn't read my thread", "you seem to be refusing to accept the crt just for the sake of not accepting it", and "You sound like Bill Cipher H1.C.", and this are all things that in a vacuum could be said while one is right, but in experience I have seen many of certain types of users point out fallacies and things like this when that's not the case at all, all basically being them not putting too much thought into the matter, sticking to what they believe only, and feeling somewhat entitled to it because of that extra wrong thing the opposition did; I fear you may be more on this route than not, as I don't see what you do as normal in way that's not simply a regular lack of attention, as this takes negative extra steps from that. Those connotations you make need to come from a place of understanding of the situation, it's not just "a thing that people do, therefore I can do it too", you need to have what they have when doing so.
Click to expand...
dude, you're saying what the article says as if it didn't exist. everything is written in the article and I answer what they say. but you persistently reject what is written.
 
Rau said:
Your argument: A black hole only attracts coolness.

My argument is: no, the judge states that towards the end it can destroy the universe, that is, it can contain physical destruction.

That's what you wrote.
Click to expand...
No, you didn't read properly what I wrote. I already went over what the judge said, which is not that. And everything I said about you still stands, but now it's clear that any helpful comment is useless.
 
Eficiente said:
No, you didn't read properly what I wrote. I already went over what the judge said, which is not that. And everything I said about you still stands, but now it's clear that any helpful comment is useless.
Click to expand...
How can you override the judge's words? it is impossible to do this. It is clear that it will destroy the universe. The size of the black hole is unimportant here, but it's best to assume it's the size the lead man pointed out. because we have no other evidence. this is how it is usually taken. Normally I wouldn't do any calc and just say these, but I wrote these to add extra context.
 
You are immensely unaware of what I wrote by what you say, you once again remain in your own bubble of what you imagine is going on, I have no idea how to talk to you since I already tried everything reasonable. I will give you one more chance; quote what I said about what the judge said, then reply to that saying why you disagree, no derailments.
 
The only argument I understand from what you said is; that it only attracts coolness and is only a predictive indicator of a black hole.

In response to your first statement, the judge states that he will have physical damage that could destroy the universe.

Secondly, the black hole may not have an estimated size. If it is known that it can destroy the universe, it can be known.
 
I greatly recommend reading the following pages, first of all:

The entire topic of if this feat qualifies for a High 4-C calc is immediately bust. This black hole doesn't seem to conform with our standards for them, specially given the method of its creation (being a result of coolness?)

Our standards are fairly strict in this regard. In addition: No, the "standard black hole" is not High 4-C. It varies, as BH are greatly variable even in real life, much less fiction.

Now, as for the universe busting statements... These can be promising, and OP should've focused on that.
DemiiPowa said:
I think the fact that the universe didn't immediately collapse from them being cool means it happens overtime, but the statement about the fate of the universe being on the line should be enough for 3-A.
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I agree particularly with this.
 
They specifically state that no coolness is capable of escaping, it’s basically the opposite of the ugliness black hole later in the series that sucks in all ugly things but explicitly leaves regular non-ugly people unaffected. So I’m not sure how viable this is.
 
JJSliderman said:
They specifically state that no coolness is capable of escaping, it’s basically the opposite of the ugliness black hole later in the series that sucks in all ugly things but explicitly leaves regular non-ugly people unaffected. So I’m not sure how viable this is.
Click to expand...
Are they explicitly compared to being similar? Cuz in this case, we have a statement of threatening the universe.
 
I went over before over the "fate of the universe depends on it.” thing. Quote

This was a black hole from which no one would be able to escape, with no reason for anyone to be able to reverse it, that's awful enough for the universe to have for its fate to be depend on it.
Click to expand...

A black hole that sucks coolness can threaten the fate of the universe w/o destroying the universe itself, the only reason why you said the latter is because you can't conceive how it could threaten the fate of the universe otherwise, as if those were magic words that always have to be "X will be one-shotted" w/o alternatives that fit what the words mean.
Click to expand...

JJSliderman clearly didn't mean that they compare both black holes, but that on their own they were similar due to their functions, because we were told what this black hole does and that's what it does. Even then, again, you don't assume something would destroy the whole of something else due to "threatening" it or having their "fate depend on it", that's such a low standard, imagine the universe doesn't get to have cool things in it anymore, or some part of it doesn't get to have that, is its fate not changed for the worse?
 
From here, I said that I would continue in the thread itself; When I said "slight troll logic", I meant the way the debate between me and Rau was going, more than the goal of the thread itself, which I believe is what you meant by "There's nothing troll-y about it." Basically, it would have been great to have someone read that, read between lines/pay attention, and see to it, which is now less likely to happen.
 
Eficiente said:
From here, I said that I would continue in the thread itself; When I said "slight troll logic", I meant the way the debate between me and Rau was going, more than the goal of the thread itself, which I believe is what you meant by "There's nothing troll-y about it." Basically, it would have been great to have someone read that, read between lines/pay attention, and see to it, which is now less likely to happen.
Click to expand...
I was talking about the debate itself.
 
Putting aside the discussion about destruction, there's one obvious addition from this thread; Mordecai and Rigby should have potential Social Influencing added to their profiles. They're not always the coolest, but clearly they're capable of becoming too cool if they aim to do that. This might require some sort of Preparation though.

Next, I propose that the range of the aforementioned Social Influencing be Intergalactic, because their coolness threw off the balance of the universe to the point where an intergalactic organization had to intervene.

Is there agreement about this?
 
Sure on Social Influencing via Prep time.

The range could be any rank in the Range page tho, I would put it as Unknown. As said before, this simply existing is already pretty bad for the universe, w/o needing to target all of it.
 
James_Plays_4_Games said:
Putting aside the discussion about destruction, there's one obvious addition from this thread; Mordecai and Rigby should have potential Social Influencing added to their profiles. They're not always the coolest, but clearly they're capable of becoming too cool if they aim to do that. This might require some sort of Preparation though.

Next, I propose that the range of the aforementioned Social Influencing be Intergalactic, because their coolness threw off the balance of the universe to the point where an intergalactic organization had to intervene.

Is there agreement about this?
Click to expand...
I know the preparation will take a short time, they just need to get dressed. apart from that, yes, its range can be galaxy+.

but I think both should definitely be 3.A.
 
How is this not accepted already? A black hole that can destroy the universe is a ticket to 3-A/Low2-C
 
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Eficiente said:
  • like I said before, that I do have solid reasons to think you didn't see, there is no timeframe for this even if it was going to destroy the universe.
Click to expand...
Hmm I can see your point I guess but the line can be thinked that way. Still I feel like a possibly 3-A can work
Eficiente said:
  • something can destroy the universe w/o being a true black hole, "it's powerful, therefore it has to follow real life math" is just giving up, the black hole again sucks in coolness and was created by coolness.
Click to expand...
I am confused on this point, are you saying it isnt a blackhole?
 
Rau said:
why? it only destroys 'coolness' but it shouldn't be just 'coolness' since it can also destroy the universe
Click to expand...
Prove that it would've actually destroyed the universe instead of just threatening it. Only having evidence of the fate of the universe being threatened isn't evidence of the universe being in danger of being destroyed in a way that makes the feat tier 3-A. If you can't prove it, then that's "why".

For example, imagine if someone were to create a Jenga structure that's actually building-sized, and in the end, they would somehow play the game with people in a way that wouldn't put them at risk of getting crushed. Every time they would take a piece of the structure out, they would threaten the entirety of the structure, but that's not evidence of humans being tier 8-C, which you and I can obviously attest to.

Another example is how Bill Cipher from Gravity Falls was considered as a threat to the entire multiverse, which is infinite in the fictional work he's from, but the VS Battles Wiki only applies infinite 4D stats to his range. The fact that Bill Cipher is a threat to that much is irrelevant to what his power rankings were decided to be, because there are different ways a character can threaten the entirety of something without destroying all. Even just trying to take over something can be considered as a threat.

If you want any chance of Mordecai and Rigby's coolness black hole to be tier 3-A, then you're going to need to make a different thread to attempt to change the standards of the VS Battles Wiki entirely. Your aim would be to increase the leniency of what "threatening" something means. If you attempt this, I don't suspect that it would be successful though.
 
James_Plays_4_Games said:
Prove that it would've actually destroyed the universe instead of just threatening it. Only having evidence of the fate of the universe being threatened isn't evidence of the universe being in danger of being destroyed in a way that makes the feat tier 3-A. If you can't prove it, then that's "why".

For example, imagine if someone were to create a Jenga structure that's actually building-sized, and in the end, they would somehow play the game with people in a way that wouldn't put them at risk of getting crushed. Every time they would take a piece of the structure out, they would threaten the entirety of the structure, but that's not evidence of humans being tier 8-C, which you and I can obviously attest to.

Another example is how Bill Cipher from Gravity Falls was considered as a threat to the entire multiverse, which is infinite in the fictional work he's from, but the VS Battles Wiki only applies infinite 4D stats to his range. The fact that Bill Cipher is a threat to that much is irrelevant to what his power rankings were decided to be, because there are different ways a character can threaten the entirety of something without destroying all. Even just trying to take over something can be considered as a threat.

If you want any chance of Mordecai and Rigby's coolness black hole to be tier 3-A, then you're going to need to make a different thread to attempt to change the standards of the VS Battles Wiki entirely. Your aim would be to increase the leniency of what "threatening" something means. If you attempt this, I don't suspect that it would be successful though.
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Man, I don't think there is any guesswork here. The judge says that "the fate of the universe depends on it".

Yes, he is in danger of destroying the universe, and he is being prosecuted to prevent it. To the intergalactic cause. But I think this is enough.

Then can the tier be given according to the size calc of the black hole? Because most of them looked bigger than planets. and Black Hole Creation.
 
Rau said:
Man, I don't think there is any guesswork here. The judge says that "the fate of the universe depends on it".

Yes, he is in danger of destroying the universe, and he is being prosecuted to prevent it. To the intergalactic cause. But I think this is enough.

Then can the tier be given according to the size calc of the black hole? Because most of them looked bigger than planets. and Black Hole Creation.
Click to expand...
The fate of the universe depended on that court proceeding, but the specifics of said fate weren't specified, so we don't actually know if that fate would've been destruction. For all we know, it could've just been cosmic uncoolness, because the disruption in "the balance" was only caused by Social Influencing.

As for using the visual depiction of the black hole, I think it's valid because it was labeled as a simulation and the characters had access to technology that exceeds Earth's, so it may suggest range like Planetary. However, it shouldn't apply to the tiering, because "It will implode into a coolness singularity; a black hole from which no coolness can escape." suggests that the singularity would've been non-physical and would've focused on social status rather than spatial properties.
 
Last edited:
James_Plays_4_Games said:
The fate of the universe depended on that court proceeding, but the specifics of said fate weren't specified, so we don't actually know if that fate would've been destruction. For all we know, it could've just been cosmic uncoolness, because the disruption in "the balance" was only caused by Social Influencing.

As for using the visual depiction of the black hole, I think it's valid because it was labeled as a simulation and the characters had access to technology that exceeds Earth's, so it may suggest range like Planetary. However, it shouldn't apply to the tiering, because "It will implode into a coolness singularity; a black hole from which no coolness can escape." suggests that the singularity would've been non-physical and would've focused on social status rather than spatial properties.
Click to expand...
I think that the fate of the universe clearly represents the end of the universe. then every detail matters.

Planetary+ Range, Social Influencing, Black Hole Creation

is it acceptable?
 
Rau said:
I think that the fate of the universe clearly represents the end of the universe. then every detail matters.

Planetary+ Range, Social Influencing, Black Hole Creation

is it acceptable?
Click to expand...
The word "fate" often can mean "result" or "destiny", and those words don't necessarily imply any sort of destruction.

I think "at least Planetary" is more suitable than "Planetary+". Don't forget to include Preparation, because that's how Mordecai and Rigby achieve Social Influencing. I would write "limited Black Hole Creation" because it wouldn't have been a normal singularity, it would have been a "coolness singularity".
 
James_Plays_4_Games said:
The word "fate" often can mean "result" or "destiny", and those words don't necessarily imply any sort of destruction.

I think "at least Planetary" is more suitable than "Planetary+". Don't forget to include Preparation, because that's how Mordecai and Rigby achieve Social Influencing. I would write "limited Black Hole Creation" because it wouldn't have been a normal singularity, it would have been a "coolness singularity".
Click to expand...
It may be, but I think it's enough to be on a scale that will affect the universe, and it makes its range universe level.

I think it's a normal black hole and it can absorb cold as well.
 
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