Mori Dan upgrade - I don't know what I'm doing edition

[DavidTPPM]

Nirvana has always been a pretty hard topic to address so I made a sandbox which explains it. While making it I realized that it seems like Mori might qualify for BDE type 3 and so I discussed it with few people and went on to write it all down here:

DavidTPPM/brainrotbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

Please make sure to read all the notes as well since they help clear out any potential vagueness and uncertainty.
Now I will note that my understanding of the topic is relatively surface level so I'm definitely open towards constructive criticism as the chance I missed some crucial evidence or misunderstood it is slightly higher than with most of my CRTs. That being said, as far as I understand the arguments should be pretty straightforward and direct.

So what happens now? When (if) the upgrade is accepted I will separate Mori's keys, one for before he ascended beyond nirvana and one afterwards. Plus I will turn the sandbox into a blog and link it on the verse page for easy access.
Also big thanks to @ShroobWasTaken for helping out with the scaling implications and @Yeolban for help with translations.

Agree(W rizz): @ShroobWasTaken (shocking ik), Re5yh, Balancefr, ThyNotAskQuestions, Saqphire, Black-san112, Pivsx, FinePoint, Thermor, VoidNether

Disagree(stinky pooper): ExcelsisBerny (votes for 5D), BestMGQScalerEver, Ultima_Reality, Antvasima

 

[ShroobWasTaken]

We worked on the thing together so I obviously agree

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Think the evidence is a bit too vague or just insufficient. Especially with spacetime stuff seeming to lean more in direction of them viewing a space-time continuum. All the stuff just seems to be referring to said specific spacetime(s) too.

 

[ShroobWasTaken]

Think the evidence is a bit too vague or just insufficient. Especially with spacetime stuff seeming to lean more in direction of them viewing a space-time continuum. All the stuff just seems to be referring to said specific spacetime(s) too.

It's relatively straightforward honestly, the characters aren't a part of physical composition any longer, along with that said characters (their silhouettes specifically) are exclaimed as feeling as though they originated from a higher dimension, clearly denoting a sense of superiority. Then you have the fact that Paradise itself which should also be outside of physical composition holds the cosmology as an object within a wider backdrop.

The spacetime stuff works in conjunction with the fact they're outside of physicality. As said in the blog they're not simply non-physical but "released from physical bondage", meaning they lack physicality entirely, lacking composition and even spacetime which are physical. It's backed up by the fact they're depicted to be outside of the spacetime of the cosmology. It works contextually with one another.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Besides what Shroob already said,

Especially with spacetime stuff seeming to lean more in direction of them viewing a space-time continuum. All the stuff just seems to be referring to said specific spacetime(s) too.

I would actually go as far as to say the wording SPECIFICALLY differentiates between spacetime continuums and space and time in general. Xuanzangs says
"govern all universes AND all of existence" with all of existence here being specifically a Buddhistic term for quite literally EVERYTHING. This clearly draws a distinction between the 2. Mori can govern all spacetime continuums AND absolutely everything.
Especially when you add the separation. Mori isn't just separate from some spacetime continuum(s) he's separated from literally all of physicality. With the word used for his separation being inyeon, a word which refers even down to the very concept of casuality. Being simply being a spacetime continuum(s) would absolutely not separate you from the very cause-effect chain.


So while I definitely agree the parts talking about space and time might be a bit vague in a vacuum, what removes that vagueness is the context which clearly does not refer just to a specific spacetime continuum.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

It's relatively straightforward honestly, the characters aren't a part of physical composition any longer, along with that said characters (their silhouettes specifically) are exclaimed as feeling as though they originated from a higher dimension, clearly denoting a sense of superiority. Then you have the fact that Paradise itself which should also be outside of physical composition holds the cosmology as an object within a wider backdrop.

The spacetime stuff works in conjunction with the fact they're outside of physicality. As said in the blog they're not simply non-physical but "released from physical bondage", meaning they lack physicality entirely, lacking composition and even spacetime which are physical. It's backed up by the fact they're depicted to be outside of the spacetime of the cosmology. It works contextually with one another. The notion they're talking about a "specific space-time" is never elaborated or even eluded to.

My problem is that their ability over creation is specifically mentioned to be over all universes, and the spacetime stuff also seems to be referring to individual universes and those being all things in existence rather than entirety of space and time in a more generic sense. There's also another problem where non-physical realms portrayed as being physically larger than spatial/temporal things isn't at all BDE type 3. BDE type 3 more so requires these be metaphors or analogies of these non composite realms dwarfing space and time in a generic sense to utter insignificance. Being released to a non-physical realm from physical constraints to a larger place is just very insufficient.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

My problem is that their ability over creation is specifically mentioned to be over all universes, and the spacetime stuff also seems to be referring to individual universes and those being all things in existence rather than entirety of space and time in a more generic sense. There's also another problem where non-physical realms portrayed as being physically larger than spatial/temporal things isn't at all BDE type 3. BDE type 3 more so requires these be metaphors or analogies of these non composite realms dwarfing space and time in a generic sense to utter insignificance. Being released to a non-physical realm from physical constraints to a larger place is just very insufficient.

Besides what Shroob already said,

I would actually go as far as to say the wording SPECIFICALLY differentiates between spacetime continuums and space and time in general. Xuanzangs says
"govern all universes AND all of existence" with all of existence here being specifically a Buddhistic term for quite literally EVERYTHING. This clearly draws a distinction between the 2. Mori can govern all spacetime continuums AND absolutely everything.
Especially when you add the separation. Mori isn't just separate from some spacetime continuum(s) he's separated from literally all of physicality. With the word used for his separation being inyeon, a word which refers even down to the very concept of casuality. Being simply being a spacetime continuum(s) would absolutely not separate you from the very cause-effect chain.


So while I definitely agree the parts talking about space and time might be a bit vague in a vacuum, what removes that vagueness is the context which clearly does not refer just to a specific spacetime continuum.

Everything or all of creation is specifically in the context of the universes. Even then it doesn't mean much for 1-A superiority. Obviously they dont transcend and encompass the spiritual realm that they are in. The superiority over spacetime (which is gotten more from inference in the OP if anything) also seems to be referring to these specific universes or spacetimes. This is just from what I see, a generic spiritual higher plane of existence where they are able to be disconnected from and control these universes. I don't particularly care for buddhist terminology if it's just used like this, and the causality point is just moot? You can certainly disconnected yourself from causality by existing outside a spacetime continuum. It just suggests causality is inherent to these space-times.

 

[ShroobWasTaken]

My problem is that their ability over creation is specifically mentioned to be over all universes, and the spacetime stuff also seems to be referring to individual universes and those being all things in existence rather than entirety of space and time in a more generic sense. There's also another problem where non-physical realms portrayed as being physically larger than spatial/temporal things isn't at all BDE type 3. BDE type 3 more so requires these be metaphors or analogies of these non composite realms dwarfing space and time in a generic sense to utter insignificance. Being released to a non-physical realm from physical constraints to a larger place is just very insufficient.

As David said previously they aren't saying "they control all of creation" as in they're controlling all universes and spacetimes. In the sentence itself they say "govern all universes AND all of existence" bringing a distinction between the two. The scans provided never once imply the notion that they're separate from specific space-time continuums only that they're outside of space-time, they don't say "all space-time" nor "outside of the space-time continuum" simply and broadly "space-time" which given the context provided with them being outside of physical bondage would be supported.

The second part about BDE Type 3 requiring analogies is odd as in the definition/notes it verbatim states "Common imagery of this includes the universe as a small object encompassed in a wider backdrop", they use the term "imagery" so it's 100% not metaphorical or analogical.

Additionally we're specifically saying they aren't simply non-physical, the idea is that they lack physical composition and are outside space and time aka they're non-dimensional, both things stated and shown within the scans provided. BDE Type 3 states that they need to lack space, time and physicality entirely while being "vaster" than physical reality in some way, they're not limiting this to any specific way simply some way and the way they mentioned (containing the universe as a small object) is 1 to 1 reflected here.

We're simply pointing out that the imagery of Paradise is almost perfectly reflecting how the wiki expects it to look. It's not supposed to be a definitive standalone proof, but supportive evidence of Paradise reflecting exactly what the wiki expects such a place to look like

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

DB afterlife 1-A next

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

The second part about BDE Type 3 requiring analogies is odd as in the definition/notes it verbatim states "Common imagery of this includes the universe as a small object encompassed in a wider backdrop", they use the term "imagery" so it's 100% not metaphorical or analogical.

Additionally we're specifically saying they aren't simply non-physical, the idea is that they lack physical composition and are outside space and time aka they're non-dimensional, both things stated and shown within the scans provided. BDE Type 3 states that they need to lack space, time and physicality entirely while being "vaster" than physical reality in some way, they're not limiting this to any specific way simply some way and the way they mentioned (containing the universe as a small object) is 1 to 1 reflected here.

I guess a better way for me to say is that it's just not sufficient enough when gotten from inference, and that I take issues with the other evidence to support it being the case, and that what it's being shown to dwarf is just specific space-time tablets.

As David said previously they aren't saying "they control all of creation" as in they're controlling all universes and spacetimes. In the sentence itself they say "govern all universes AND all of existence" bringing a distinction between the two. The scans provided never once imply the notion that they're separate from specific space-time continuums only that they're outside of space-time, they don't say "all space-time" nor "outside of the space-time continuum" simply and broadly "space-time" which given the context provided with them being outside of physical bondage would be supported.

I don't think "all of existence" changes much here either way. The space-time part is literally just these tablets or moments in space-time. That's why it seems to be specific space-times.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Everything or all of creation is specifically in the context of the universes.

At this point I think we're just going in circles.
I already pointed out both in the sandbox and here that Xuanzang directly differentiates between "all universes" and "all of existence".

What you're saying would make the sentence grammatically nonsensical. You're basically saying she said
"you'll govern all universes and all universes" which makes absolutely no sense. The sentence blatantly differentiates between them and the further context like the separation from physical reality down to the very chain of cause-effect clearly tells us that she's not just talking about universes.

I don't particularly care for buddhist terminology if it's just used like this,

Well Buddhistic terminology IS crucial here as that's what's being used to describe a strictly Buddhistic idea.

and the causality point is just moot? You can certainly disconnected yourself from causality by existing outside a spacetime continuum. It just suggests causality is inherent to these space-times.

That only works under the presumption that all the statements only refer to the universe which they blatantly don't. Existing outside of spacetime does not cut you off from causality at all unless it's specified

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Well Buddhistic terminology IS crucial here as that's what's being used to describe a strictly Buddhistic idea.

I mean GoH isn't exactly faithful to buddhism here.

 

[Re5yh]

Agree with proposal

 

[ShroobWasTaken]

I mean GoH isn't exactly faithful to buddhism here.

Yes but it's not about that. It's the fact he used a specific terminology to describe existence. It's not to say we're equating these things with Buddhism but rather using the definition of the terminology used. When we say "the Buddhist term" we're just saying where the term originates from, that doesn't deny the usage/definition of it. Especially with the multitudes of times the word is used.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I don't think "all of existence" changes much here either way.

It changes literally everything about the sentence and context of the statement. It quite literally directly debunks the idea that Xuanzang is only talking about some specific universes.

That's why it seems to be specific space-times.

But it doesn't. 90% of the blog is listing a mountain of evidence that it's NOT just talking about specific space-time continuums.

I'm sorry but if you don't think Xuanzang directly differentiating between "all universes" and "(literally) everything / all of existence" is enough to prove she's NOT just talking about all universes then I don't think there's anything that could possibly change your mind.

So unless you have some argument about the wording which isn't just handwaving clear evidence away, I don't think there's anything more to discuss on this specific part of the thread.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Yes but it's not about that. It's the fact he used a specific terminology to describe existence. It's not to say we're equating these things with Buddhism but rather using the definition of the terminology used. When we say "the Buddhist term" we're just saying where the term originates from, that doesn't deny the usage/definition of it. Especially with the multitudes of times the word is used.

I think I understand more. I guess it's referring to a more metaphysical system of causality and cycle of rebirth as being the all existence while universes fall under that, but I honestly don't see 1-A still and I'll leave it at that.

 

[ShroobWasTaken]

DB afterlife 1-A next

Don't get their hopes up now

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I agree with MGQ btw. I don’t really see enough evidence that indicates a 1-A level.

Claims about abandoning the physical body and becoming abstract existences are quite good, but I don’t find them sufficient in this case.

Also, how did Mori, as a being who isn’t 1-A, manage to ascend to a 1-A plane? It isn’t clearly explained in the OP’s post; I’m assuming it’s due to Karma, but Karma doesn’t seem to be 1-A in itself (in fact, it’s stated explicitly that Karma has no influence on Nirvana). That’s a problem for the scaling. For the character to ascend to a 1-A plane, they need a 1-A system that allows their ascension in the first place.

It could honestly be 5D if those tablets are continuous space-times. Which would be consistent with the statement that Nirvana is a higher dimension.

 

[ShroobWasTaken]

I agree with MGQ btw. I don’t really see enough evidence that indicates a 1-A level.

Claims about abandoning the physical body and becoming abstract existences are quite good, but I don’t find them sufficient in this case.

Explained within the notes. Mori isn't abandoning his physical body rather he's separate from physicality entirely (spacetime and material composition), this isn't the only argument as we further contextualize this as beings within physical reality consider beings like Mori and Xuanzang to be higher existences and further pushed by the fact that Paradise; a non-material, aspatial and atemporal structure is depicted as being vaster than the cosmology, holding it as a small object within it.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Also, how did Mori, as a being who isn’t 1-A, manage to ascend to a 1-A plane? It isn’t clearly explained in the OP’s post; I’m assuming it’s due to Karma, but Karma doesn’t seem to be 1-A in itself (in fact, it’s stated explicitly that Karma has no influence on Nirvana).

He achieved Nirvana. It's a transcended state not achieved through some additive power ups (in fact Mori was basically dying from exhaustion when he achieved it) but rather through achieving a certain state of mind.
The notes partially cover this

It is presented as the conclusion to one of the main themes of the last arc which states that "true paradise is built on the happiness of everyone, not on sacrifice".

Mori's ascended state is the result of him understanding Xuanzangs teachings about true peace and how to achieve real paradise (tho it's likely there's even more to it as first signs of enlightenment started appearing when Mori accepted himself and all of his life's as a single being). It's essentially a result of Mori's metaphysical state.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Explained within the notes. Mori isn't abandoning his physical body rather he's separate from physicality entirely (spacetime and material composition), this isn't the only argument as we further contextualize this as beings within physical reality consider beings like Mori and Xuanzang to be higher existences and further pushed by the fact that Paradise; a non-material, aspatial and atemporal structure is depicted as being vaster than the cosmology, holding it as a small object within it.

It’s crazy how you literally ignored the issue here and just limited yourself to being pedantic about a semantic issue.

Abandoning one’s physical body is something that necessarily happens when ‘separating from physicality’. He became an abstract being like I said. All abstract beings are separated from physicality.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

He achieved Nirvana. It's a transcended state not achieved through some additive power ups (in fact Mori was basically dying from exhaustion when he achieved it) but rather through achieving a certain state of mind.

Irrelevant to my point. I never claimed you can reach Nirvana via additive power ups.

Mori's ascended state is the result of him understanding Xuanzangs teachings about true peace and how to achieve real paradise (tho it's likely there's even more to it as first signs of enlightenment started appearing when Mori accepted himself and all of his life's as a single being). It's essentially a result of Mori's metaphysical state.

I don't see any 1-A metaphysical force that allows Mori to reach a 1-A realm here.

 

[DavidTPPM]

It’s crazy how you literally ignored the issue here and just limited yourself to being pedantic about a semantic issue.

Abandoning one’s physical body is something that necessarily happens when ‘separating from physicality’. He became an abstract being like I said. All abstract beings are separated from physicality.

I think the main takeaway was supposed to be that Mori becoming immaterial is far from all. We can't treat each individual line as separate in a vacuum, but rather take them as 1 whole

Irrelevant to my point. I never claimed you can reach Nirvana via additive power ups.

I said that because I thought that was why you asked.

I don't see any 1-A metaphysical force that allows Mori to reach a 1-A realm here.

I'm a bit confused on what you're asking for here. Nirvana is what allows him to ascend what more does he need?

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Nirvana is what allows him to ascend what more does he need?

Post scans showing that the process of enlightenment and evolution toward Nirvana is something that Nirvana itself permits through a sort of ontological predestination (because as I established earlier, the very concept causality according to your own blog [Karma] is not 1-A).

I don’t see that anywhere. You only said that after attaining a certain mindset and/or enlightenment, they ascend and that’s it.

If it were as easy as you say, you could use that excuse in literally any situation without evidence, and the standard would be completely meaningless.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Post scans showing that the process of enlightenment and evolution toward Nirvana is something that Nirvana itself permits through a sort of ontological predestination (because as I established earlier, the very concept causality according to your own blog [Karma] is not 1-A).

I don’t see that anywhere. You only said that after attaining a certain mindset and/or enlightenment, they ascend and that’s it.

If it were as easy as you say, you could use that excuse in literally any situation without evidence, and the standard would be completely meaningless.

What standard? I genuinely don't understand what are you asking for here. The proof that Nirvana is what allows you to ascend is in the sandbox since Xuanzang says so twice.

We know that paradise is a 1-A realm (that's half of what the sandbox is trying to prove) and that those who achieve Nirvana can, for an unspecified reason, ascend to that realm. I'm really not sure what more do you want me to prove here

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

What standard? I genuinely don't understand what are you asking for here. The proof that Nirvana is what allows you to ascend is in the sandbox since Xuanzang says so twice.

Well, send the link to those scans, please, because I’ve read through your sandbox and I haven’t seen anything stating that the Paradise itself permits the enlightened to undergo the process of ascending. Rather, it seems that upon meeting certain conditions, they ascend on their own.

We know that paradise is a 1-A realm (that's half of what the sandbox is trying to prove) and that those who achieve Nirvana can, for an unspecified reason, ascend to that realm.

Uh… be clear: is the reason for the ascension due to the Paradise itself or to ‘unspecified reasons’?

What I’m asking for is a scan that mentions some kind of predestination. You need evidence that a 1-A character/plane/system is what causes sub-1-A characters to ascend to that level, because Tier 1-A exists at a qualitatively transcendent and completely disconnected level.

 

[Shar122]

So... did Mori jin reach it on its own or is there a qualitative superior 1-A source that helps him ascend to that realm?

 

[DavidTPPM]

Well, send the link to those scans, please, because I’ve read through your sandbox and I haven’t seen anything stating that the Paradise itself permits the enlightened to undergo the process of ascending. Rather, it seems that upon meeting certain conditions, they ascend on their own.

Because it's not explained. It's explained achieving Nirvana allows you to ascend to paradise
"This place can only be reachable by those who have attained Nirvana"
"It [paradise] is the place where those who have reached Nirvana arrive"

The exact specific mechanism is not directly explained but it's made clear that Nirvana is what allows one to ascend.

Uh… be clear: is the reason for the ascension due to the Paradise itself or to ‘unspecified reasons’?

It's due to Nirvana which itself has an unknown connection to paradise.

What I’m asking for is a scan that mentions some kind of predestination. You need evidence that a 1-A character/plane/system is what causes sub-1-A characters to ascend to that level, because Tier 1-A exists at a qualitatively transcendent and completely disconnected level.

Yeah that should be Nirvana. It's not directly explained but again, it's somehow connected to paradise and is what allows people to ascend there. After which they seemingly have to prove their enlightenment in paradise or they'll lose the ability to ascend.

So... did Mori jin reach it on its own or is there a qualitative superior 1-A source that helps him ascend to that realm?

Mori definitely didn't reach it in his own as he didn't even know wtf is going on when he suddenly ascended. It seems Nirvana (or paradise itself) made him ascend on its own.

Like I already said the exact relationship between Nirvana and Paradise is unknown outside of the fact that Nirvana is what makes people ascend to paradise. But it's clear they're somehow connected

 

[BeTheWay1rst]

here is a antifeat

Tang Sanzang (The God of High School)

Have a kid, fall in love, laugh and cry... and enjoy life to your heart's content. Have a good life together with everyone. That's my wish for you.Sanzang to Mori Tang Sanzang was a descendant of Gaia who was tricked by Tathagata into embarking on a journey with her disciples that would end in...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Huesito88]

here is a antifeat

Tang Sanzang (The God of High School)

Have a kid, fall in love, laugh and cry... and enjoy life to your heart's content. Have a good life together with everyone. That's my wish for you.Sanzang to Mori Tang Sanzang was a descendant of Gaia who was tricked by Tathagata into embarking on a journey with her disciples that would end in...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Highlight it plz

 

[DavidTPPM]

here is a antifeat

Tang Sanzang (The God of High School)

Have a kid, fall in love, laugh and cry... and enjoy life to your heart's content. Have a good life together with everyone. That's my wish for you.Sanzang to Mori Tang Sanzang was a descendant of Gaia who was tricked by Tathagata into embarking on a journey with her disciples that would end in...

vsbattles.fandom.com

?

 

[BeTheWay1rst]

Highlight it plz

?

How did she goes to pardise again ?

 

[DavidTPPM]

How did she goes to pardise again ?

Xuanzang is a complete unknown. She doesn't do anything that would contradict any of the arguments but basically everything about her is a complete mystery.

It's the main reason why I'm planning on deleting her profile. We basically know nothing about her or anything surrounding her.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Because it's not explained. It's explained achieving Nirvana allows you to ascend to paradise
"This place can only be reachable by those who have attained Nirvana"
"It [paradise] is the place where those who have reached Nirvana arrive"

The exact specific mechanism is not directly explained but it's made clear that Nirvana is what allows one to ascend.

It's due to Nirvana which itself has an unknown connection to paradise.

Yeah that should be Nirvana. It's not directly explained but again, it's somehow connected to paradise and is what allows people to ascend there. After which they seemingly have to prove their enlightenment in paradise or they'll lose the ability to ascend.

Mori definitely didn't reach it in his own as he didn't even know wtf is going on when he suddenly ascended. It seems Nirvana (or paradise itself) made him ascend on its own.

Like I already said the exact relationship between Nirvana and Paradise is unknown outside of the fact that Nirvana is what makes people ascend to paradise. But it's clear they're somehow connected

The evidence is really very weak.

Sure, Nirvana as a mental state is the condition the enlightened person needs to reach Paradise, but if there’s no mention or even an indirect reference that Paradise permits ascension through predestination or something similar, then it’s useless.

We should wait for the staff to see whether they consider this little evidence sufficient.

There’s also the fact that the evidence for 1-A itself is very scant and relies almost entirely on semantics and a really generous interpretation of the scans. There isn’t even evidence of higher dimensions in the verse outside of the paradise itself.

I’m maintaining my “disagree” vote; we’ll see what the staff thinks.

This should be 5D.

 

[Shar122]

Xuanzang is a complete unknown. She doesn't do anything that would contradict any of the arguments but basically everything about her is a complete mystery.

It's the main reason why I'm planning on deleting her profile. We basically know nothing about her or anything surrounding her.

So she reached that plane without any reasons whatsoever?

 

[Shar122]

The evidence is really very weak.

Sure, Nirvana as a mental state is the condition the enlightened person needs to reach Paradise, but if there’s no mention or even an indirect reference that Paradise permits ascension through predestination or something similar, then it’s useless.

We should wait for the staff to see whether they consider this little evidence sufficient.

There’s also the fact that the evidence for 1-A itself is very scant and relies almost entirely on semantics and a really generous interpretation of the scans. There isn’t even evidence of higher dimensions in the verse outside of the paradise itself.

I’m maintaining my “disagree” vote; we’ll see what the staff thinks.

This should be 5D.

I can agree with 5D as well tbh, the 1-A stuff is sort of vague yeah.

 

[DavidTPPM]

The evidence is really very weak.

Sure, Nirvana as a mental state is the condition the enlightened person needs to reach Paradise, but if there’s no mention or even an indirect reference that Paradise permits ascension through predestination or something similar, then it’s useless.

Why would it be useless? Nothing on the tiering page or the BDE page says anything about needing concrete evidence on this specific thing.

If it's absolutely necessary to be the case and there are no contradiction then paradise permitting ascension would just be the logical conclusion.

There’s also the fact that the evidence for 1-A itself is very scant and relies almost entirely on semantics and a really generous interpretation of the scans.

Any and all 1-A arguments rely purely on semantics. The entire tier is only accessible through statements.

There isn’t even evidence of higher dimensions in the verse outside of the paradise itself.

Wdym?

This should be 5D.

Not really. Nothing here proves an additional spatial or temporal axis. Quite the opposite it proves completely separation from and superiority to any and all physicality.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I'm not continuing this for now. Let's wait for staff members. I already elaborated enough on my stance.

 

[DavidTPPM]

So she reached that plane without any reasons whatsoever?

Not really what I meant. What I'm saying is that we never got any explanation about Xuanzang at all. Nothing about her is confirmed or denied, she shouldn't even have a profile

 

[BeTheWay1rst]

Xuanzang is a complete unknown. She doesn't do anything that would contradict any of the arguments but basically everything about her is a complete mystery.

It's the main reason why I'm planning on deleting her profile. We basically know nothing about her or anything surrounding her.

That's it. Also, there isn't any reason for Paradise to be 1-A in itself, it is a non physical plane disconnected from the physical plane, no statement of it being more real than the universe or being a void or platonic realm