Mushuko Tensei High-Tier AP CTR

[Godslayermeli]

Presumably yes? He either came back from dust or his arms took on his consciousness. Rudeus's worries implies the former is the case.

Hmm, if it's the former, then it seems I'll have to drop the immortal demon point. If it's the latter, my point is proven.

You think we have any particular way to prove this other than semantic disputes?

 

[Zabazab]

Rudeus believes with certainty Badigadi will return from dust, and fears he could "fast-track" his regeneration by gathering up his remaining flesh instead of taking the lengthy process of restoring his whole body. Also, his destruction by the King Dragon Blade and by the Ringus Sea explosion are both described as "annihilation."

 

[Godslayermeli]

Rudeus believes with certainty Badigadi will return from dust, and fears he could "fast-track" his regeneration by gathering up his remaining flesh instead of taking the lengthy process of restoring his whole body. Also, his destruction by the King Dragon Blade and by the Ringus Sea explosion are both described as "annihilation."

I believe there still exists a distinction, being in the latter, his regeneration is stated to have halted. Furthermore, I do not take Rudeus to be a reliable speaker for immortal demon properties, as, he simply is not fully aware as to how they function.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Read, I said I prefer VC, I can still continue on this infinite regress that's going on here, as I said, it just seems redundant. The entire debate boils down to a category error between the three types of reasoning. I'm upholding abductive reasoning, which is simply the inference to the best explanation. Your attacking my reasoning as if it's deductive, aka absolutes / neccisities, and as if it's Inductive aka the most likely outcome; which, both require the propositions in support of them to be of absolute truth or falsity. Since that is not the case in fiction, I'm upholding a form of fuzzy logic, and a form of best explanation and thus, abductive reasoning.

I mean you're trying to using Abductive Reasoning on something already handled by the standards, which you'll need a lot to prove why it isn't as the standards say.

Due to this, the issues you see within my reasoning fail to be actual critiques— as your trying to lower the probability and certainly, aka attacking this as if it's inductive and deductive reasoning— without proving your case to be the best explanation. My cases are aimed to be the best explanation, and thus, to counter this, you must present a counter abductive case, which you haven't. Hence your major category errors.

I'm not really trying to use Abductive Reasoning and trying to prove said reasoning is the best explanation, I'm just sticking to the standards. For the example I took above, it's like someone trying to push the 1-A agenda, using Abductive Reasoning to try to counter the anti feats and say use Abductive Reasoning to counter that, when he has just a bunch of anti feats. Just gotta use the scans and the standards to disapprove his proposal.

Note: I messed up my wording a bit, inductive is probability, deductive is certainty, abductive is best explanation. You guys are attacking probability and certainty rather than best explanation.

Abductive is just an inference to the best explanation, it is not necessarily true, unlike deductive.

Did his main body ever regenerate? Like actually?

It can regenerate, as he did when he was annihilated by Laplace.

As for the arms, he doesn't really regenerate his body from them, but they come to his main body to complete the process, though the process doesn't start instantly and generally the main body waits for the other parts to come together, and if they don't, it regenerates.

“Damnit!” I choked out, then quickly hurled the arm as far as I could throw it. It sailed off down into the Earthwyrm Ravine. It had taken Atofe a while to recover after she’d been cut into pieces. By putting distance between Badigadi and his severed limbs, he wouldn’t be able to restore them right away.
They’d come back eventually… But it had to be worth something to make that feat take longer.

And when he regenerates without that part, his body shrinks, hence why his main body shrunk when he was sealed.

“Oof!” Straight away, I wheeled around and went to retrieve Badigadi’s arm. It pulsated inside the golden gauntlet. I tossed it away.
“Fwahahaha! Futile, all futile!” Badigadi’s arm regrew, popping right out of his shoulder…like a certain race of green aliens. “Hmph.”
Oh, but it hadn’t been futile. His new arm was bare—it wasn’t covered by the armor.
“Oho! That’s how we’re doing this, are we? You’ve thought this through, boy!”
Now, on the ground where I’d thrown the arm, there was a magic circle ready to go. The arm and the armor lay there and didn’t start regenerating.
Maybe it was my imagination, but Badigadi looked like he’d shrunk.

 

[Godslayermeli]

Rudeus believes with certainty Badigadi will return from dust, and fears he could "fast-track" his regeneration by gathering up his remaining flesh instead of taking the lengthy process of restoring his whole body. Also, his destruction by the King Dragon Blade and by the Ringus Sea explosion are both described as "annihilation."

I believe there still exists a distinction, being in the latter, his regeneration is stated to have halted. Furthermore, I do not take Rudeus to be a reliable speaker for immortal demon properties, as, he doesn't really have knowledge on immortal demons

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I disagree, make everyone 3-C or we riot

 

[Godslayermeli]

I mean you're trying to using Abductive Reasoning on something already handled by the standards, which you'll need a lot to prove why it isn't as the standards say.

I'm not really trying to use Abductive Reasoning and trying to prove said reasoning is the best explanation, I'm just sticking to the standards. For the example I took above, it's like someone trying to push the 1-A agenda, using Abductive Reasoning to try to counter the anti feats and say use Abductive Reasoning to counter that, when he has just a bunch of anti feats. Just gotta use the scans and the standards to disapprove his proposal.

Abductive is just an inference to the best explanation, it is not necessarily true, unlike deductive.

It can regenerate, as he did when he was annihilated by Laplace.

As for the arms, he doesn't really regenerate his body from them, but they come to his main body to complete the process, though the process doesn't start instantly and generally the main body waits for the other parts to come together, and if they don't, it regenerates.

And when he regenerates without that part, his body shrinks, hence why his main body shrunk when he was sealed.

This entire response is rather confused upon what I'm attempting to say.

For one, abductive reasoning is being used to explain a phenomena within Mushuko Tensei, your attacking it as if it is deductive, thus, your critiques fail. For the anti feat statement, go ahead and show me one “anti-feat” that's been brought up that I haven't addressed.

It can regenerate, as he did when he was annihilated by Laplace

I disagree. I've explained the distinction between the two multiple times.

Also, for the scans you just showed... ...you know that doesn't really prove anything? Infact, what ARE you trying to prove with those scans?

 

[Digital_Franz]

This entire response is rather confused upon what I'm attempting to say.

For one, abductive reasoning is being used to explain a phenomena within Mushuko Tensei, your attacking it as if it is deductive, thus, your critiques fail. For the anti feat statement, go ahead and show me one “anti-feat” that's been brought up that I haven't addressed.

Ugh I don't plan to continue this because we'll never reach a conclusion at this point.

I disagree. I've explained the distinction between the two multiple times.

Also, for the scans you just showed... ...you know that doesn't really prove anything? Infact, what ARE you trying to prove with those scans?

He regenerated after getting completely annihilated by Laplace explosion, to answer you question did his body ever regenerate?

But let's take the Eris' case.

During the fight, they cut off four of his arms (he used two to reinforce two others).

“Grr…” Badigadi grumbled, but no new arm sprouted from the stump.
Instead, the arm he’d regenerated earlier retracted into the armor like a turtle going into its shell.
“Eh?!”
What’s going on?
In a second, two of the remaining four arms disappeared into the body of the armor, gauntlets and all. Then, the last two arms grew thicker. There was a straining metal noise as they swelled.

“Shotgun Trigger!” I shouted, and Badigadi’s Fighting Armor-encased arm went flying. Only, I was knocked back too. Badigadi had punched me with his one remaining arm. The front surface of my armor was smashed to pieces, and the impact had penetrated through it. I felt like my body was going to be crushed flat. I fell backward.

“Guh!” Badigadi grunted as something red rammed into him from the side. Whatever-it was slashed at his arm, severing it at the shoulder and sending it flying off through the air.

When Badigadi was annihilated by Eris, what remained from him and FGA, that's to say dust or atoms or whatever fell into the ravine, and Rudeus still wanted to seal him.

I stood up. The Version Zero was in ruins, and my mana was practically exhausted…but I could still move. I didn’t know how much time it would take Badigadi to restore himself. After being crushed by that much mana, the way he’d disappeared looked like he’d been annihilated. And that was practically an understatement. The arms showed no signs of starting to regenerate, so I wanted to believe we had a while. Maybe that was naive. Wishful thinking. Most importantly, the Version Zero was destroyed, and the Version One was gone, too. I was on the verge of mana drain and Cliff, who could cast barrier magic, wasn’t here. Badigadi had fallen into the ravine, and we had no way of sealing him. If we went down there in this state and found him waiting for us, our chances of victory were close to nonexistent. There’d be nothing for it but to ask Orsted to take to the field. I wanted to get through this without him using any mana, but I might not have a choice.

And after that they directly collected the arms to seal them, and once sealed they cannot regenerate/he cannot regenerate from them.

“Anyway, Sylphie, those arms over there—get them to an undamaged magic circle. Then get Eris back to the village. I need you to tell Sir Orsted what happened, then bring Cliff here.”

Now, on the ground where I’d thrown the arm, there was a magic circle ready to go. The arm and the armor lay there and didn’t start regenerating.

Currently, five parts of his body are sealed; that is, his main body, which fell into the ravine and started to regenerate at some point, and his four arms, which were severed. So, his main body regenerated from the dust, not his arms.

It was Fighting God Badigadi. His body had been split into five pieces, each of which was sealed in a different location in the ravine. His main body was here. This barrier couldn’t be broken unless the other four seals were broken first. It operated using the mana from Badigadi’s own body and was amplified—and therefore, sustained—by the King Dragon Blade and the Fighting God Armor. It would go on operating almost in perpetuity. It was a custom-made barrier magic circle, a Perugius specialty. It was Divine-tier barrier magic, created to seal the Demon God.

 

[Godslayermeli]

Ugh I don't plan to continue this because we'll never reach a conclusion at this point.

He regenerated after getting completely annihilated by Laplace explosion, to answer you question did his body ever regenerate?

But let's take the Eris' case.

During the fight, they cut off four of his arms (he used two to reinforce two others).




When Badigadi was annihilated by Eris, what remained from him and FGA, that's to say dust or atoms or whatever fell into the ravine, and Rudeus still wanted to seal him.

And after that they directly collected the arms to seal them, and once sealed they cannot regenerate/he cannot regenerate from them.


Currently, five parts of his body are sealed; that is, his main body, which fell into the ravine and started to regenerate at some point, and his four arms, which were severed. So, his main body regenerated from the dust, not his arms.

I agree that we ought to just get a mod, as once more, this is going nowhere. I've stated this countless times.

Anyways, the evidence you just showed kinda supports my viewpoint, it proves the main body was destroyed and the arms remained, and, the arms were stated to not be regenerating. Furthermore, where does it ever say he had a new main body? From all we know, it could've been 2 pieces of an arm that added up to 5, as, simply, Rudeus was shown to split one of his arms earlier. I don't see why or how this proves the main body regenerated.

 

[Zabazab]

the arms were stated to not be regenerating

Because they were sealed away. If you mean right after Badigadi was turned to dust, it's because the arms had no main body to join up to. They'd begin moving and return to the main body as soon as it was restored.

Furthermore, where does it ever say he had a new main body?

In chapter 4 of volume 26. His body was split into five separately sealed pieces. Four arms were sealed during the battle earlier, and since he had a main body that was also sealed, it can only have regenerated from the dust that fell into the ravine.

 

[Godslayermeli]

Because they were sealed away. If you mean right after Badigadi was turned to dust, it's because the arms had no main body to join up to. They'd begin moving and return to the main body as soon as it was restored.


In chapter 4 of volume 26. His body was split into five separately sealed pieces. Four arms were sealed during the battle earlier, and since he had a main body that was also sealed, it can only have regenerated from the dust that fell into the ravine.

Read my counter case / example, about the possibility of a split arm. It could also be the likes of a head or a leg. For all we know, it could be the likes of an atom they sealed for safety.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Anyways, the evidence you just showed kinda supports my viewpoint, it proves the main body was destroyed and the arms remained, and, the arms were stated to not be regenerating. Furthermore, where does it ever say he had a new main body? From all we know, it could've been 2 pieces of an arm that added up to 5, as, simply, Rudeus was shown to split one of his arms earlier. I don't see why or how this proves the main body regenerated.

What do you mean 2 pieces of an arm that added up to 5? They sealed his arms as a whole. I don't see the necessity for them to split his arm or raise the number of fragments. Like I said, they managed to sever 4 of his arms and sealed them. And they explicitly refer to that part as his main body.

 

[Godslayermeli]

What do you mean 2 pieces of an arm that added up to 5? They sealed his arms as a whole. I don't see the necessity for them to split his arm or raise the number of fragments. Like I said, they managed to sever 4 of his arms and sealed them. And they explicitly refer to that part as his main body.

Where did they refer to it as the main body? I didn't see that while reading your proof. Redirect me please.

Also, I didn't say they needed to, I'm claiming one of Badigadi's arms were split within the fight, and it could be the fifth piece.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Where did they refer to it as the main body? I didn't see that while reading your proof. Redirect me please.

All right.

It was Fighting God Badigadi. His body had been split into five pieces, each of which was sealed in a different location in the ravine. His main body was here.

Also, I didn't say they needed to, I'm claiming one of Badigadi's arms were split within the fight, and it could be the fifth piece.

During the fight they severed only four arms in all. They lacked the power to do more, and after the last was severed Eris annihilated him.

 

[Zabazab]

It could also be the likes of a head or a leg. For all we know, it could be the likes of an atom they sealed for safety.

This is a massive stretch. For one, everything besides the four sealed arms was reduced to dust by the King Dragon Blade. Not a single person doubted Badigadi would return from that destruction, even if it took a bit of time, and he did.

Your interpretation requires many more assumptions, and has a lot of friction with what the text tells us. Badigadi just has strong regeneration and his durability does not get to scale to the Ringus Sea explosion.

Where did they refer to it as the main body? I didn't see that while reading your proof. Redirect me please.

It was Fighting God Badigadi. His body had been split into five pieces, each of which was sealed in a different location in the ravine. His main body was here. This barrier couldn’t be broken unless the other four seals were broken first. It operated using the mana from Badigadi’s own body and was amplified—and therefore, sustained—by the King Dragon Blade and the Fighting God Armor. It would go on operating almost in perpetuity. It was a custom-made barrier magic circle, a Perugius specialty. It was Divine-tier barrier magic, created to seal the Demon God.

 

[Godslayermeli]

This is a massive stretch. For one, everything besides the four sealed arms was reduced to dust by the King Dragon Blade. Not a single person doubted Badigadi would return from that destruction, even if it took a bit of time, and he did.

Your interpretation requires many more assumptions, and has a lot of friction with what the text tells us. Badigadi just has strong regeneration and his durability does not get to scale to the Ringus Sea explosion.

All right.


During the fight they severed only four arms in all. They lacked the power to do more, and after the last was severed Eris annihilated him.

Alright, I've been beaten.

With that being said, how should the CRT go about it? Obviously Badigadi's fighting god scaling ought to be butchered a bit. But what about everyone else?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Alright, I've been beaten.

With that being said, how should the CRT go about it? Obviously Badigadi's fighting god scaling ought to be butchered a bit. But what about everyone else?

Well, any scaling we have for FGA Badigadi will apply to the others. For now, we just need to find a replacement. I have ideas about that. But I believe that of all these, only Orsted can scale to Rigus Sea explosion.

 

[Godslayermeli]

Well, any scaling we have for FGA Badigadi will apply to the others. For now, we just need to find a replacement. I have ideas about that. But I believe that of all these, only Orsted can scale to Rigus Sea explosion.

I disagree with the conclusion. It should still be noted that the Laplace who did it was severely weakened, and that it was practically a suicide attack. And I do believe there are some who can scale to it. For example, Alexander (FGA and KDB) likely scales to it. Likely KDB Alex does aswell. A mark 0 Rudy could also have a case made for him. And a KDB amped Eris could still have an argument. So could others, it's simply not as strong without Badigadi scaling.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I disagree with the conclusion. It should still be noted that the Laplace who did it was severely weakened, and that it was practically a suicide attack.

He was at death door but nothing says that it wasn't his strongest spell, right? Especially when the reincarnation spell takes so much mana to send a soul in the future.

And I do believe there are some who can scale to it.

I only see Orsted honestly.

For example, Alexander (FGA and KDB) likely scales to it. Likely KDB Alex does aswell. A mark 0 Rudy could also have a case made for him. And a KDB amped Eris could still have an argument. So could others, it's simply not as strong without Badigadi scaling.

I mean they have no feats or statements which can help them to scale to that or even be close. Sure Alexander FGA is strong but so what? He won't scale to that without a statement or a feat. Same for Eris, she sure annihilated FGA Badigadi but it doesn't mean she's close to that explosion, as everything is based on the Badigadi scaling.

Now just for the example let's say FGA Badigadi has 6-B Durability and for the sake of the example let's say that KDB Eris has 6-A AP. What'll happen? Badigadi gets annihilated without her scaling to that explosion. So yeah without anything correlating to that feat they can't scale to that, no matter what.