[Naruto] DMS Obito/Kakashi Update.

[NeoKingOfLight]

This will be a physicals upgrade if accepted.

So currently, DMS Kakashi is scaling to, “At least Island Level, likely higher” in physicals. DMS Obito doesn’t even have a key or statistics for this form.

This is my proposal, and it should be straight forward:

1. In the Databook, Kicking away a launched TSB is stated to be a feat that “Surpasses Kurama Mode”.
2. DMS Obito, after absorbing Madara’s Six Paths Chakra, deflects Madara’s Launched TSB.
3. These are the only two feats of knocking away a TSB in the series, so outside of the Six Paths Tiers, it doesn’t scale anywhere else.

Kurama Mode Naruto is currently listed at, “Country Level+”. Given the databook and feat, my proposal is, DMS Obito and Kakashi ratings for physicals be listed as: “At Least Country Level+, Likely Higher”.

Controversy: I did want to touch on this one aspect because it got brought up in discussion before. Obito deflecting them with a TSB doesn’t take away from this scaling to his physicals. Given the TSB is made with Six Paths Chakra, all it means is Obito’s TSB wouldn’t be erased by Madara’s, making it in this instance tantamount to a Bat or Stick (Blunt Force Object). The feat would be comparable to Naruto hurting Madara with his TSB strike, wherein the injury is caused from the force of the strike, Madara having Six Paths Chakra simply meant the TSB wouldn’t slice through him like a hot knife through butter.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I'd say At least Large Country level, possibly Moon level since Obito clearly surpasses someone 1.65% away from baseline High 6-B, and possibly Moon level since it's deflecting an attack from Madara

 

[Padaruyos]

I agree

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Agree

 

[Padaruyos]

I'd say At least Large Country level, possibly Moon level since Obito clearly surpasses someone 1.65% away from baseline High 6-B, and possibly Moon level since it's deflecting an attack from Madara

You'd end up with Juubito scaling to:
At least Large Country level, likely far higher, possibly Moon level since Juubito is much stronger than his DMS self. And then EMS Sasuke and BSM Naruto would get At least Large Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level+ by being half as powerful as Juubito. Which would also scale to Hashirama and EMS Madara since EMS Sasuke hasn't surpassed Madara yet in the war

 

[Padaruyos]

This will be a physicals upgrade if accepted.

So currently, DMS Kakashi is scaling to, “At least Island Level, likely higher” in physicals. DMS Obito doesn’t even have a key or statistics for this form.

This is my proposal, and it should be straight forward:

1. In the Databook, Kicking away a launched TSB is stated to be a feat that “Surpasses Kurama Mode”.
2. DMS Obito, after absorbing Madara’s Six Paths Chakra, deflects Madara’s Launched TSB.
3. These are the only two feats of knocking away a TSB in the series, so outside of the Six Paths Tiers, it doesn’t scale anywhere else.

Kurama Mode Naruto is currently listed at, “Country Level+”. Given the databook and feat, my proposal is, DMS Obito and Kakashi ratings for physicals be listed as: “At Least Country Level+, Likely Higher”.

Controversy: I did want to touch on this one aspect because it got brought up in discussion before. Obito deflecting them with a TSB doesn’t take away from this scaling to his physicals. Given the TSB is made with Six Paths Chakra, all it means is Obito’s TSB wouldn’t be erased by Madara’s, making it in this instance tantamount to a Bat or Stick (Blunt Force Object). The feat would be comparable to Naruto hurting Madara with his TSB strike, wherein the injury is caused from the force of the strike, Madara having Six Paths Chakra simply meant the TSB wouldn’t slice through him like a hot knife through butter.

Anyways I think this is fine. Juubito would have to upscale far above this tho which he already does.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

I’ll do Agree/Disagree in the morning.

 

[Godernet]

Disagree for now, for a couple of reasons,

1). The Databook isn’t saying that merely surpassing Kurama Mode lets you deflect a TSO, you still require Six Paths resistances, something explained/implied by the series several times.

2). The Databook is an explanations page on Six Paths Sage Mode, which is what the Databook is describing as “having massive chakra that surpasses Kurama Mode” so it isn't saying you need chakra slightly above Kurama Mode to accomplish this, it's saying you need something on par with Six Paths Sage Mode, a form that surpasses Kurama Mode, to accomplish this feat.

3). We are told via the story that One-Eyed SP Madara has more Sage Chakra than Juubito did let alone SPSM Naruto who has half of Hagaromo's power, not to mention Post-Juubi Obito has only lost chakra since then when he lost the Juubi and was only able to recover a bit when he offguarded Madara.

4). DMS Kakashi would have less chakra than the Obito that blocked the TSOs did, as Obito had some of Gyuki and Shukaku's chakra on top of half of Kurama's chakra, not to mention Bijuu chakra doesn't really give linear increases as it can make a group of eight 6Cs and a 6B+ creature transform into a 5C one if enough of it is collected.

 

[Damage3245]

Godernet makes sense to me. Put me down for disagree also.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Disagree for now, for a couple of reasons,

1). The Databook isn’t saying that merely surpassing Kurama Mode lets you deflect a TSO, you still require Six Paths resistances, something explained/implied by the series several times.

It’s not saying that actually. Six Paths “Resistance” isn’t a factor here because it was already established that NE gave you resistance regardless of your strength. The statement is clear in that the act of kicking away a TSB surpasses Kurama Mode and that it is due to having a large powerful chakra like Six Paths Chakra, which we already know amps the user physically.

2). The Databook is an explanations page on Six Paths Sage Mode, which is what the Databook is describing as “having massive chakra that surpasses Kurama Mode” so it isn't saying you need chakra slightly above Kurama Mode to accomplish this, it's saying you need something on par with Six Paths Sage Mode, a form that surpasses Kurama Mode, to accomplish this feat.

The statement says: “Kicking a Truth Seeking Sphere! Surpassing Kurama Mode, a vast amount of chakra enables attempting this risky event.”

The fact of the matter is, DMS Obito accomplished this feat, after gaining Six Paths Chakra, which would scale him above Kurama Mode, which the statement informs us allows for kicking away a TSB.

Maybe i’m not understanding your point here…

3). We are told via the story that One-Eyed SP Madara has more Sage Chakra than Juubito did let alone SPSM Naruto who has half of Hagaromo's power, not to mention Post-Juubi Obito has only lost chakra since then when he lost the Juubi and was only able to recover a bit when he offguarded Madara.

This doesn’t matter. The Strength of Madara’s SPC doesn’t change because Obito absorbed some. He may not have the “quantity” that Madara had or even as Juubito, but the strength of the chakra remained the same. Nor does this negate the FACT he literally performed the feat.

There are arguments that he should actually scale to SP Madara because of this fact, but all I’m advocating for is scaling him above the bare-minimum the feat is established to do. Chakra surpassing Kurama Mode allows you to kick away a TSB. Obito swatted them away after gaining SPC… 2+2=4.

And no, we’re not about to do this Chakra =|= Physicals BS. The statement is referring to a Taijutsu Act. A physical act, having surpassed Kurama Mode.

4). DMS Kakashi would have less chakra than the Obito that blocked the TSOs did, as Obito had some of Gyuki and Shukaku's chakra on top of half of Kurama's chakra, not to mention Bijuu chakra doesn't really give linear increases as it can make a group of eight 6Cs and a 6B+ creature transform into a 5C one if enough of it is collected.

For starters, Biju Chakra =|= Six Paths Chakra. It’s greatly diluted upon being split. Second, the Databook also says the Combined BD of the 5 Biju used small portions of their chakra. Verbatim (Granted this is irrelevant to the conversation).

Reluctantly, I give you that DMS Kakashi wouldn’t scale to DMS Obito. While he still retained portions of Kurama, Gyuuki and Shukaku’s Chakra (To even have SPC still), there is no real way justify Kakashi scaling as the SPC would’ve been diluted greatly before Obito empowered him.

I can edit the OP to reflect this, but I don’t concede DMS Obito. He should still have a Key and Statistics that has what I’m advocating for him.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I agree with OP

 

[MinatoSparkle]

You'd end up with Juubito scaling to:
At least Large Country level, likely far higher, possibly Moon level since Juubito is much stronger than his DMS self. And then EMS Sasuke and BSM Naruto would get At least Large Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level+ by being half as powerful as Juubito. Which would also scale to Hashirama and EMS Madara since EMS Sasuke hasn't surpassed Madara yet in the war

And what proof is there for Juubito>SPC BZ Obito?

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Lmao! I just noticed an Issue…

The Obito that deflected the TSB is Rinnegan Obito, not DMS.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

@Damage3245
Can you close this? I have to rework this for the correct forms. I made a mistake. This was Rinnegan Obito, not DMS. Plus there are Kakashi scaling issues that have to be addressed first.