(Naruto) Jonin Revision Stat List

[AstralKing7]

It's time to finally get a Naruto revision outa the way. Based on the last thread that discussed the appropriate scaling of the Jonin; this thread is to list the profiles of the current Jonin level characters and higher who scale to 8A and the ones who have either statements, feats or both to back up their rating to 7C.

This is the link to the last thread https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2194077

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Did we need a new thread? Thought this was being done in the previous one.

 

[AstralKing7]

BFF suggested making a new thread and the other one seemed dead since everything was finished

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Reasonable, I'll compile a list of some characters we've already discussed and a few more that I found.

 

[AstralKing7]

Okay cool, I've looked back over the Pain arc as well

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Characters That Are Incorrectly Scaling to 7-C Due to the Jonin Mistakes

Samui:

Samui is 7-C for "Given her status as a strong shinobi from Kumogakure, she should at least be comparable to Itta. Fought with Kinkaku and Ginkaku"

Issues With This: Itta is only 8-A, and nothing says Samui should be comparable to Ittan. Kinkaku and Ginkaku also have issues that I will explain next.

Proposal: Tier: At Least 8-A (Is a Jonin that is superior to her brother who has a potential 8-A feat).

Kinkaku and Ginkaku:
Kinkaku and Ginkaku are 7-C for "Could keep up with Samui and Darui alongside his brother. Should at least be comparable to Itta."

Issues With This: This is circular scaling from Samui, that's literally not allowed nor justifiable. The comparison to Ittan as well is terrible when nothing says they are comparable, and even then Ittan is 8-A. Also, the feat of fighting Tobirama is vague and doesn't even say if it was a physical fight and not launched attacks against him. We don't scale from vagueness, but they do have their Version 2 Modes. Darui also has issues that I will explain next.

Proposal: Tier: At Least 8-A (Easily superior to Jonin like Darui) 7-C with Ninja Tools (It has a 7-C feat of destroying one of Kakuzu's Heart). Possibly 7-A with Version 2 Mode (It's a Version 2 Mode).

Darui:
Darui is 7-C for "An elite jonin from Kumogakure that also serves as Raikage's right hand, as such he should be at least comparable to Asuma, fought with Kinkaku and Ginkaku."

Issues With This: Again with the circular scaling. Darui is 7-C cause of Kinkaku and Ginkaku who are 7-C cause of Darui, literally no sense. Asuma is actually 7-C for legitimate reasons, but nothing scales Darui to Asuma besides apparently say so. There is no justification for this.

Proposal: Tier: 8-A (Is a Jonin, fought Kinkaku and Ginkaku)

Ao:
Ao is 7-C for "As an elite Jonin from Kirigakure that has been picked to bodyguard the Mizukage he should be comparable to Jonin like Darui."

Issues With This: This is scaling through titles of Jonin with no actual scaling between the two that justifies this. Darui already has issues with being 7-C which makes it even worse.

Proposal: Tier: 8-A (Is a Jonin)

Ao's Boruto Era Key is also 7-C for "Easily defeated Konohamaru."

Issues With This: Konohamaru doesn't have justifiable reason for even being 7-C that I will explain next.

Proposal: Tier: Likely 8-A (Likely since Ao is weaker after his injuries from the War and as he is much older).

Konohamaru:
Konohamaru is 7-C for "Presumably stronger than before, is also now a Jonin and should easily be comparable to characters like Part 1 Kakashi Hatake."

Issues With This: This is again, scaling with titles of Jonin. Part 1 Kakashi was a Jonin with solid reasonings for being 7-C, there is nothing saying that Konohamaru is on par with Part 1 Kakashi. This is literally a baseless assumption with no scaling nor statement between the two to justify this tiering.

Proposal: Tier: 8-A (Is a Jonin, fought Boruto-Era Ao)

Karin:
Karin is 7-C physically for Comparable to Danzō Shimura physically.

Issues With This: A dying Danzo easily manhandled Karin with one arm, she is not comparable at all.

Proposal: Tier: I actually can't recall feats for her physically.

Boruto:
Boruto is 7-C with the Chakra Sworde for Oneshot Ao.

Issues With This: Ao is not 7-C through any justifiable mean.

Proposal: Tier: 8-A (Oneshot Ao who is 8-A)

Suigetsu:
Suigetsu is 7-C for At least comparable to Zabuza, and could temporarily fight against Darui.

Issues With This: Darui, as I explained above, would not be 7-C. On top of this, the statement Kisame made about Suigetsu and Zabuza was not a comparison of strength. Kisame said that Suigetsu was seen as a reincarnation of Zabuza due to how savage Suigetsu was in his method of killing through brutality. Plus, Darui beat Suigetsu.

Proposal: Tier: 8-A (Fought Darui momentarily)

Kashin Koji:
Kashin is 7-C, likely higher for His Rasengan is equal to, or stronger than Konohamaru's.

Issues With This: Konohamaru isn't 7-C reasonably either.

Proposal: Tier: 8-A, likely higher (His Rasengan is equal to, or stronger than Konohamaru's who is 8-A)

Kawaki:
Kawaki is at least 7-C for Easily harmed a Kara Outer Member, who scales to Ao, with his Karma Seal, even killing him while simultaneously vaporizing a larger area than before.

Issues With This: That member doesn't actually scale to Ao, they never interact, they were just part of the same group. However, Kawaki did destroy a larger area than before.

Proposal: Tier: At least 8-A (Vaporized a larger area than before)

Neji:
Neji is at least 7-C for As a jonin level ninja, he should at least be stronger than Kid Choji. Broke out of 30% Kisame's Water Prison, and knocked his clone back

Issues With This: Jonin ranking is lowered per the previous thread, Neji wouldn't be 7-C anymore for these reasons. He did however break the Water Prison and knock back the Kisame Clone.

Proposal: Tier: At least 8-A (Is a Jonin Ninja. Broke out of 30% Kisame's Water Prison, and knocked his clone back)

Kimimaro:
Kimimaro is 7-C for Effortlessly held back Naruto and his clones under Kurama's influence. Broke out of Gaara's Sand Coffin with some effort, and pierced through his sand. Could keep Jugo in check without much effort. Is said to be stronger than the rest of the Sound Four combined

Issues With This: For starters, Naruto is only 7-C in Part 1 with Rasengan or Version 1 Cloak, neither of which he uses against Kimimaro. Kimimaro did break out of the Sand Coffin with effort, but Gaara is 7-C for Sand Tsunami, something that swallowed up Kimimaro.

Proposal: I actually propose that Kimimaro get another key. His Base, Curse Mark Stage 2 and Edo Tensei. Tier: At least 8-A, likely higher (He trounced Part 1 Naruto and his clones under Kurama's influence and held his own against Gaara) all for Base. I can't recall what the numbers for the 8-A calc were, but applying the Curse Mark Stage 2 multiplier for Kimimaro's CM2 form will yield an accurate Tier for his CM2 form.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

There is probably more, but this is what I could find for now.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@IMade

We still ain't done with Kin/Gin and Darui, lol. I'd like to compile both mine and your arguments on that subject into one thread and have a debate separately on that, with more than just us, lol.

That aside, I agree with everything for now. I'm going to go back and skim through the manga for things.

 

[AstralKing7]

Kawaki is 7C for a calc not for scaling to Garou. Kawaki is 8A when he woke up but his 7C tier is from a calc that was accepted and made by Tara

 

[AstralKing7]

We're gonna have to put Boruto at atleast 8A as well because we were planing on upgrading him to 8A. Boruto's Rasengan could hurt Ao which would make his Rasengan 8A and shojoji tanked his Rasengan well could get back up from it and Boruto was able to physically fight shojoji with taijutsu

There are actually other reasons for Boruto scaling to 8A as well

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

We can't scale that Rasengan to Ao's 8-A given that Ao was nerfed due to the Chakra Sword.

Edit: It may be possible to scale current Karma Boruto to 8-A eventually through Kawaki, but we need more feats.

 

[Rocker1189]

Sorry but that is bs, he had his chakra drained a bit so he was unableto use too many jutsus, that is it. He is still as strong as before.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Nah, it's straight up shown and told to us. Mitsuki is able to bring him to his knees with his arm and hold him down alone. Ao needs a blast to make Mitsuki let go and then Boruto notest that Ao is now slow.

Edit: This is the only thing BS and you said it: he had his chakra drained a bit. We are literally shown that holding the Chakra Sword for even a second can make someone like Boruto pass out from Chakra Drain.

 

[Rocker1189]

Yeah he was slowed down, but his durability would not be reduced at all. His durability was not the issue his speed was. Since when has durability gone down with chakra not counting cloaks obviously.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Gaara should be changed from 8-B to 8-A and have High Hypersonic attack and reaction speed with his sand. It scales to Lee.

 

[BlackeJan]

How come Neji is being downgraded? Part II > Part I and Choji (younger) had a 7-C calc which in turn most of the characters to 7-C

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Tbh, I don't think there's any way Kid Choji is stronger than Neji.

As for Kimimaro, he should be at Low 7-C with the multiplier.

 

[Rocker1189]

I think Kimimaro should easily be 7-C scaling from Gaara using hos cursemark.

 

[BlackeJan]

Tbh, I don't think there's any way Kid Choji is stronger than Neji.

Exactly....Part II Neji is stronger then Part I Choji who is 7-C so that would mean Shippuden characters keep their 7-C tier

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@2017

Don't forget to mention in some of the justifications that jounin are scaling to Ittan and the Sound Four.

 

[AstralKing7]

Boruto scales to base Kawaki. Base Kawaki is stated or implied to be stronger than all of team 7 which includes base Mitsuki. This proven by how he complete man handled the Puppets while team 7 couldn't destroy for good. This was Base Kawaki who did this not Karma Seal Kawaki because of the damage to the puppets. Base Kawaki is 8A all around which scales to Boruto who was able to fight him and they both were serious because Kawaki said he would make Boruto learn.


Also can someone tell me again why we are scaling Jonin to Special Jonin???? Special Jonin themselves should be atleast 8A for being able to fight the Sound 4amd was considered so much of a threat that they had to use CM2 and we see it was still a hard battle and took a toll on them. Jonin scale above Special Jonin because they are just chunin with one high stat. The way I see it Jonin could actually be considered 7C through scaling or through just scaling above Choji or we can just rate Jonin to at least 8A like TFO planned on

 

[AstralKing7]

I also agree having low chakra has nothing to do with durability decreasing if it's not a chakra cloak. This has always been the case. Also wasn't planning on scaling Rasengan to Chakra saber because that one shotted Ao while Rasengan made him scream in agony

Kimimaro should just be straight 7C or low 7C like BFF said I completely agree lol Neji is stronger than pre timeskip choji.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I don't know why either of you are mentioning durability when I never once said anything about durability there.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

@2017
Don't forget to mention in some of the justifications that jounin are scaling to Ittan and the Sound Four.

I purposefully left that out and put in direct scaling that is more comprehensive and concise. Direct scaling justification is better than indirect power scaling, especially when the direct scaling would yield similar if not better results. Either way, it's all 8-A with those two. Per the last thread, the Jonin title yields 8-A alone. We can link the 8-A Jonin thread into the justification of the stats.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I think Kimimaro should easily be 7-C scaling from Gaara using hos cursemark.

What were the numbers from the 8-A calcs from Jirobo, using the Curse Mark multplier on Kimimaro could yield 7-C. If not then his Curse Mark 2 form would be High 8-A I'd assume.

 

[AstralKing7]

130 kilotons I think

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

We don't normally link threads for justifications. But I think TFO can make a blog that can be linked in the pages.

 

[AstralKing7]

We can't scale that Rasengan to Ao's 8-A given that Ao was nerfed due to the Chakra Sword.

Edit: It may be possible to scale current Karma Boruto to 8-A eventually through Kawaki, but we need more feats.

Your basically saying here indirectly that because of less chakra Aos durability had gone down which is why he was hurt by the Rasengan. If that isn't what you meant than what does this comment even mean

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

What Rocker said:

Sorry but that is bs, he had his chakra drained a bit so he was unableto use too many jutsus, that is it. He is still as strong as before.

What I said to that:

Nah, it's straight up shown and told to us. Mitsuki is able to bring him to his knees with his arm and hold him down alone. Ao needs a blast to make Mitsuki let go and then Boruto notest that Ao is now slow. Edit: This is the only thing BS and you said it: he had his chakra drained a bit. We are literally shown that holding the Chakra Sword for even a second can make someone like Boruto pass out from Chakra Drain.

I've been talking strength.

 

[Rocker1189]

.
What were the numbers from the 8-A calcs from Jirobo, using the Curse Mark multplier on Kimimaro could yield 7-C. If not then his Curse Mark 2 form would be High 8-A I'd assume.

Or he could be 7-C scaling from Gaara like I already said.

 

[Rocker1189]

I don't know why either of you are mentioning durability when I never once said anything about durability there.

We are talking about Boruto hurting Ao, if his durability does not change (which it does not) then Boruto would indeed be 8-A. If you did not mean durability then what exactly was your point about low chakra?

"I've been talking strength. "

Strength also does not go down with chakra amount. Unless you are near dead.

 

[AstralKing7]

That's literally PIS. We see in later panels and the chapters that Boruto can hold the saber without fainting anymore. You literally get accustomed to the chakra consumption rate. Naruto stopped fainting the second time he used FRA. Kakashi got used to using Kamui over and over and those take way more chakra than the saber.

Also bruh you for a fact that Mitsuki did not bring Ao to his knees. Ao needed a a chakra spear to make Ed let go of him, that doesn't mean Ao has gotten weaker.

Ao even after he got his chakra drained can still use jutsus

The whole Chakr saber thing is PiS and it was retconed in the same chapter when Boruto can literally use it again without fainting and using the Rasengan right after using the saber

Also in that same chapter Mitsuki wasn't even pulling Ao down so he didn't make him come to his knees at all. Ao dropped because, yeah his chakra getting drained so of course he was gonna feel the effects of using it his first time but he didn't faint like Boruto the first time so it didn't effect him that bad

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

And I thought this would be straightforward. *sighs*

 

[Rocker1189]

It should be really it is only IMade making claims like his strength reduced because of his loss of chakra when that is never implied, the only thing that changed was his speed.

 

[AstralKing7]

It seems there are always misconceptions to chakra and physical abilities ƒñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å Even with low chakra Naruto and Sasuke are still able to fight Momoshiki and Naruto got more chakra absorbed than Ao

Might Guy is also another huge example. Taijutsu only and his physical abilities does not decrease

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Or he could be 7-C scaling from Gaara like I already said.
"I've been talking strength. "

Strength also does not go down with chakra amount. Unless you are near dead.

Gaara is 7-C through Sand Tsunami, something Kimimaro doesn't overpower or anything. He's also only hit by a portion of it due to the surface area of his body. He's 8-A at base and using the Curse Mark multplier he'd be 7-C with CM2.

Strength did go down, Ao was physically held down by Mitsuki who is 8-B physically. And as I said:

Nah, it's straight up shown and told to us. Mitsuki is able to bring him to his knees with his arm and hold him down alone. Ao needs a blast to make Mitsuki let go and then Boruto notest that Ao is now slow.

We're shown he's gotten physically weaker and Ao admits it even when he says "My strength is getting asborbed." Right after he's brought to his knees and resorts to firing at Mitsuki to make him let go.

It's cut and dry with no implication as we are shown through demonstration and told through Ao's own words.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Can we update something? So Kimimaro should be 8-A in base as he's stronger than the Sound Four combined, and then Low 7-C with the multiplier.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Also, 8-A Boruto will come soon enough so I really don't get why we're wasting time on this. Let's just agree to disagree or postpone it.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I said the same about Boruto, he's gonna hit even 7-C within the year probably as well with Kawaki being nearby always.

Kimimaro seems pretty fine to go ahead and go through with, the CM multiplier were accepted, correct?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Yeah, I'm gonna update his page. Someone should handle Konofodder and the rest.