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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

Padaruyos said:
Are we going to start a Jigen fraud agenda?
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Hey, all I’m saying is… if Jigen is Thanos, this is the equivalent of picking up the Powerstone, that is out of your way, to go fight Odin.
GAJkFfSXoAAdChe.jpg
 
If Jigen only beats Naruto and Sasuke because he absorbed the Ten Tails's Chakra that probably means K2 Jigen on his own is weaker than SPSM Naruto. He might end up getting crushed by Kurama Avatar if he didn't absorb ten tails Chakra. He should still be stronger than Delta and Restricted Code however.

Delta < K2 Jigen < SPSM Naruto < K1 Jigen with Juubi Chakra < K2 Jigen with Juubi Chakra.

If this is true then would characters that has "Stronger than Jigen statements" ended up getting downgraded to Naruto's level? Lmao.
 
Padaruyos said:
If Jigen only beats Naruto and Sasuke because he absorbed the Ten Tails's Chakra that probably means K2 Jigen on his own is weaker than SPSM Naruto. He might end up getting crushed by Kurama Avatar if he didn't absorb ten tails Chakra. He should still be stronger than Delta and Restricted Code however.

Delta < K2 Jigen < SPSM Naruto < K1 Jigen with Juubi Chakra < K2 Jigen with Juubi Chakra.

If this is true then would characters that has "Stronger than Jigen statements" ended up getting downgraded to Naruto's level? Lmao.
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Pada coming out with them quick scaling chains after literally any discussion is always gonna be a classic :ROFLMAO:
 
Anyway, I dunno if this is the most solid meta, but it is very fun alternative scaling especially for a Boruto Opp like myself.

I guess one possible benefit of this is that it makes the power-cliffing not as terrible, which obviously helps sort out any inconsistencies or cases where characters keep up with people they logically shouldn't, etc etc. It makes the scaling chain for a lot of people a bit more compact and stuff, which is nice I guess.
 
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UchihaSlayer96 said:
Anyway, I dunno if this is the most solid meta, but it is very fun alternative scaling especially for a Boruto Opp like myself.

I guess one possible benefit of this is that it makes the power-cliffing not as terrible, which obviously helps sort out any inconsistencies or cases where characters keep up with people they logically shouldn't, etc etc. It makes the scaling chain for a lot of people a bit more compact and stuff, which is nice I guess.
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In before half of these people get off screened.
 
Padaruyos said:
Would be a big lmao if Baryon Mode Naruto ended up being the strongest character in the verse (at least in AP). Besides Kaguya with IT.
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I think surpassing Isshiki and BM Naruto is Kawaki and Bort's endgame respectively tbh, so I don't foresee that they'll be easily cliffed. I could be wrong, of course, but that's the vibe I'm getting. Especially when all the Cyborgs are being compared to Jigen rather than Isshiki and stuff.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
What’s that based on though? We already know the Juubi can be held down by those weaker than it because it can’t control it’s power properly back in the 4th war. We know from Chapter 4 of TBV that the Juubi was barely conscious until Code did his shit and they transformed.

Yeah, prior to its transformation is wasn’t on Jigen’s level because it couldn’t control its power properly, but “if” these Shinju beings demonstrate that they are stronger than Jigen, which is HIGHLY likely, then yeah… Jigen absorbing his chakra HAS to recontextualize his fight.
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His durability got breached, and his AP can only be as good as his dura at most
UchihaSlayer96 said:
I mean...
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Jigen goated, cope :mad:
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
I think surpassing Isshiki and BM Naruto is Kawaki and Bort's endgame respectively tbh, so I don't foresee that they'll be easily cliffed. I could be wrong, of course, but that's the vibe I'm getting. Especially when all the Cyborgs are being compared to Jigen rather than Isshiki and stuff.
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Ngl Current Boruto might already be stronger than Isshiki. Karma Boruto>>Base Boruto>>Karma Code>P1 Karma Code>>K2 Jigen
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Ngl Current Boruto might already be stronger than Isshiki. Karma Boruto>>Base Boruto>>Karma Code>P1 Karma Code>>K2 Jigen
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That scaling chain is kinda meaningless since the gap between Isshiki and Jigen is unquantifiable. Boruto might be on Isshiki's level, same thing with Daemon and stuff, but we won't be able to tell for sure until he's name-dropped again. All we can do for now is speculate, really.
Best comparison I have is Beerus. Every arc, people came up with updated scaling chains to support why they believed X or Y had to have surpassed Beerus by now, only for them to be sorely disappointed over and over again. I feel like Boruto is doing something similar with Isshiki here.
 
Padaruyos said:
If Jigen only beats Naruto and Sasuke because he absorbed the Ten Tails's Chakra that probably means K2 Jigen on his own is weaker than SPSM Naruto. He might end up getting crushed by Kurama Avatar if he didn't absorb ten tails Chakra. He should still be stronger than Delta and Restricted Code however.

Delta < K2 Jigen < SPSM Naruto < K1 Jigen with Juubi Chakra < K2 Jigen with Juubi Chakra.

If this is true then would characters that has "Stronger than Jigen statements" ended up getting downgraded to Naruto's level? Lmao.
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It would in no way affect the statement. The only reason this would affect the statement is if the amped form of jigen was something he just did for the fight and was clear cut from his normal set of power. But the statement "sorry juubi, I'm gonna have to borrow more again" directly shows that jigen has several times taken chakra from the 10 tails. It also explains why the 10 tails wasn't as massive as we'd think..

So this means that a 10 tails amped jigen is something that has happened repeatedly. It just means maybe kawaki never experienced it. But Amado would have full knowledge on this when he is making his statements of people surpassing jigen.

The 10 tails chakra amp I also like to think he used it to increase the durability of his vessel jigen so as to be able to better contain his power if not who tf was he fighting the previous times he took tt chakra that was so op he needed it?
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
That scaling chain is kinda meaningless since the gap between Isshiki and Jigen is unquantifiable. Boruto might be on Isshiki's level, same thing with Daemon and stuff, but we won't be able to tell for sure until he's name-dropped again. All we can do for now is speculate, really.
Best comparison I have is Beerus. Every arc, people came up with updated scaling chains to support why they believed X or Y had to have surpassed Beerus by now, only for them to be sorely disappointed over and over again. I feel like Boruto is doing something similar with Isshiki here.
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I thought they were only above Jigen not Isshiki?
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
That scaling chain is kinda meaningless since the gap between Isshiki and Jigen is unquantifiable. Boruto might be on Isshiki's level, same thing with Daemon and stuff, but we won't be able to tell for sure until he's name-dropped again. All we can do for now is speculate, really.
Best comparison I have is Beerus. Every arc, people came up with updated scaling chains to support why they believed X or Y had to have surpassed Beerus by now, only for them to be sorely disappointed over and over again. I feel like Boruto is doing something similar with Isshiki here.
Click to expand...
Except people literally did surpass Beerus, it just got retconned.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
That scaling chain is kinda meaningless since the gap between Isshiki and Jigen is unquantifiable. Boruto might be on Isshiki's level, same thing with Daemon and stuff, but we won't be able to tell for sure until he's name-dropped again. All we can do for now is speculate, really.
Best comparison I have is Beerus. Every arc, people came up with updated scaling chains to support why they believed X or Y had to have surpassed Beerus by now, only for them to be sorely disappointed over and over again. I feel like Boruto is doing something similar with Isshiki here.
Click to expand...
But it's a bit different from beerus. Beerus while you can't put goku over him, you can absolutely put him over goku with ease. Considering jiren was said that even his god of destruction may not be able to defeat him would put him on par with his god. But beerus defeated 5 gods at once including Jiren God with ease. So pre more arc and Co beerus was 100% over him.

Ishikki on the other hand while you can't put characters like daemon and boruto over him, you cannot also put ishikki over them. Take daemon for example he got greatly surpass jigen statement, same way ishikki has one for his power being tremendous compared to jigen, none is above the other. But still daemon has better feats against said bench mark of power which is jigen. Nl is above jigen but even if we bring him down to equal to jigen it would mean daemon is so much stronger than jigen he would 2 shot him. Which is what he did for code, all this while telling boruto he hasn't fought seriously in his life. That is a better scalling than what ishikki has tbh.

But I do think there is a reason they keep saying jigen and not ishikki. It think kishi wants to show they surpassed him later on in the series
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
That scaling chain is kinda meaningless since the gap between Isshiki and Jigen is unquantifiable. Boruto might be on Isshiki's level, same thing with Daemon and stuff, but we won't be able to tell for sure until he's name-dropped again. All we can do for now is speculate, really.
Best comparison I have is Beerus. Every arc, people came up with updated scaling chains to support why they believed X or Y had to have surpassed Beerus by now, only for them to be sorely disappointed over and over again. I feel like Boruto is doing something similar with Isshiki here.
Click to expand...
Isshiki has antifeats against Naruto and Sasuke tho, and I'm not particularly fond on the him preserving their lives train of thinking
 
karo_senpaii said:
But it's a bit different from beerus. Beerus while you can't put goku over him, you can absolutely put him over goku with ease. Considering jiren was said that even his god of destruction may not be able to defeat him would put him on par with his god. But beerus defeated 5 gods at once including Jiren God with ease. So pre more arc and Co beerus was 100% over him.

Ishikki on the other hand while you can't put characters like daemon and boruto over him, you cannot also put ishikki over them. Take daemon for example he got greatly surpass jigen statement, same way ishikki has one for his power being tremendous compared to jigen, none is above the other. But still daemon has better feats against said bench mark of power which is jigen. Nl is above jigen but even if we bring him down to equal to jigen it would mean daemon is so much stronger than jigen he would 2 shot him. Which is what he did for code, all this while telling boruto he hasn't fought seriously in his life. That is a better scalling than what ishikki has tbh.

But I do think there is a reason they keep saying jigen and not ishikki. It think kishi wants to show they surpassed him later on in the series
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Hey man, I didn't really make any claims regarding any of that. In fact, my whole point was that it was pointless to make any claims regarding Isshiki. When people surpass Isshiki, the story will let us know, I assure you.
MinatoSparkle said:
Isshiki has antifeats against Naruto and Sasuke tho, and I'm not particularly fond on the him preserving their lives train of thinking
Click to expand...
Please don't tell me you're one of the "ThEy DiDn'T iMmEdIaTeLy DiE tO hIs AtTaCkS" people? We disagree a lot, and I usually respect those differences because I kinda see where it's coming from, but this one would just be disappointing.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Please don't tell me you're one of the "ThEy DiDn'T iMmEdIaTeLy DiE tO hIs AtTaCkS" people? We disagree a lot, and I usually respect those differences because I kinda see where it's coming from, but this one would just be disappointing.
Click to expand...
It's not just that, Sasuke literally reacts to and blocks his attack somewhat offguard, Naruto tags him with chakra arms in cqc, which even elicits surprise from Isshiki, and they dodge his cubes. Though Sasuke taking 6 direct hits from Isshiki and getting up and being able to fight after is impressive too.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
It's not just that, Sasuke literally reacts to and blocks his attack somewhat offguard, Naruto tags him with chakra arms in cqc, which even elicits surprise from Isshiki, and they dodge his cubes. Though Sasuke taking 6 direct hits from Isshiki and getting up and being able to fight after is impressive too.
Click to expand...
I mean… it took him a few to get back up from those direct strikes tbf, but yeah. 💀
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
What’s that based on though? We already know the Juubi can be held down by those weaker than it because it can’t control it’s power properly back in the 4th war. We know from Chapter 4 of TBV that the Juubi was barely conscious until Code did his shit and they transformed.

Yeah, prior to its transformation is wasn’t on Jigen’s level because it couldn’t control its power properly, but “if” these Shinju beings demonstrate that they are stronger than Jigen, which is HIGHLY likely, then yeah… Jigen absorbing his chakra HAS to recontextualize his fight.
Click to expand...
Nope. Jigen was powerful due to Karma, not juubi juice. The juubi juice kept his stamina up and going, but karma was what made the difference
 
And Base Boruto is not more powerful than Karma Code.
He was just successful in tagging Code with his hax. And that Code was in Base.
 
Kayzz said:
We have direct statement that Jigen couldn't handle the power of Isshiki's karma. Not just statement, but even shown after ressurection
Click to expand...
That doesn’t change how chakra and amps in the series works. All it is, is Karma stacked ontop of an Juubi Amped Jigen.

Karma + Juubi Chakra > Karma by itself.

All that means is Full Powered Isshiki > Juubi, and that doesn’t change the conversation because Shinju Spawns > Isshiki Full Power wasn’t being debated.

Now I have actually been thinking… the “reason” the Shinju Spawns might be > Jigen after their transformation is due to how chakra works. With consciousness and awareness and no longer being a mindless entity driven only by instinct, the Juubi’s Chakra would automatically be strengthened due to it’s “Spiritual Energy” being increased.

It wouldn’t be the same as a Juubi Jinchuriki, whom can better utilize the Juubi’s Chakra due to their CC skill, it’s would be like an Academy Student suddenly becoming an experienced Jonin in Knowledge and CC. In the former, the chakra isn’t “amped”, just better utilized. In the latter, the Chakra is actually amped.

If that makes sense… 🤔

@MinatoSparkle @Nierre @UchihaSlayer96

Thoughts?
 
SlendVeny said:
He could use Jutsu, he just chose not to.
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More like if he used jutsu he’d exit the form too soon due to the mechanism in which it consumes chakra. It’s effectively like he can’t use jutsu unless he wants to exit the already short time form even sooner.
 
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