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Nasuverse Discussion Board 14

Nasu will give in to his sci-fi urges eventually and give us Multiverse level Servants through some crazy shenanigans. We all know it'll happen eventually, and it'll be hell to evaluate everything.

Considering we have planet level Servants, and Servants are infinitismally small portions of their full Heroic Spirit counterparts, maybe a fully incarnated HS would get there.
 
It could be more along the lines of 'There's a world texture in there that'll rewrite the world', but I don't even know anymore. The guy who translated it (fallacies) is a competent translator so I don't have particular reason to doubt his legitimacy. The fact that the tree held a cosmos was also mentioned in Beastlair before this summary was made. I'm still waiting for someone to record something so I can get scans and confirm it for myself, but the title of 'Cosmos in the Lostbelt' would make sense in this scenario.
 
U should xD. Probably when full translation comes out tho just so we're not missing anything, but there's not much evidence to contest the point.

Other than that they were having a hard time shattering the Russia lostbelt tree.

UROBOUCHI FORGOT
 
Dude, **** that shit. I ain't gonna take the bullet and get the whole "nah, that ain't flying here" thing lolol. You kidding me!! xD

But seriously, I'd rather wait for a while or get some more translations to make sure what the others (Mashu, Vinci, and Holmes) said is true. And even then, I'm sure it's not even going to pass even if that's true but hey, I'd be damn surprised if this wikia DID accept it.
 
So Grand Level servants are Galaxy Level? Then that would mean beasts are Galaxy Level too...

Then that would mean Gilgamesh, Merlin, and Hassan are all close to Galaxy level cuz they fought Tiamat...

...Shit
 
I was arguing for my possibly planet level point considering how that the only conclusion that doesnt completely shatter literally all power scaling.
 
But then Tiamat's mud could only spread so fast over several days. Granted it grew exponentially stronger that the world was going to be flooded in much less time, so there's no reason not to think that it could get even stronger on top of that...
 
Grand being around planet level would makes sense considering how they are suppose to be the ones dealing with the Beasts. Which would kind of be impossible with the current massive stat gap between them.
 
I was more referring to the Beast but in Gil case he has Ea and for Merlin he in competition with Solomon who has AAS and a bunch of other BS.
 
Is there an in lore reason for why KH is so skilled/strong and has conceptual death manip? He was the first Hassan, so did he teach himself?
 
It's just a matter of 'Older is better'. He's the first of the 'Assassins', thus he's the strongest. Other than that, we only know mostly because of mats.
 
All this means is that Urobutcher ability to kill things has gotten so powerful that he can now kill power scaling. Hence why everyone is now Galaxy level. Anyone who dares to oppose his reign will get there waifu axed.
 
Being Older is better but it doesn't automatically make him the strongest because lolage. For example, Edmond having a noble phantasm as strong as some of the knights of the round table's noble phantasms despite being several hundred years younger. I'm not asking why he's the strongest Hassan, I'm asking why he's so strong in general. Alternatively, what did he do to become so strong?
 
Well I found this

https://www.reddit.com/r/FGOGuide/comments/99cqqf/the_old_man_of_the_mountains_profile_from/ Introduced in Chapter 6 of Part 1, the individual standing at the summit of assassins. Since he is legend who's dead while alive, he can be summoned in Chaldea if the person himself feels like it; this is the sort of out-of-the-norm Heroic Spirit he is. Merlin who can not fade away until the extinction of mankind and "The Old Man of the Mountain" who continues to wander the boundary between life and death are both those who travel eternally and because of this it seems like they are somewhat kindred spirits. Named "King Hassan" in chapter 6 by the Protagonist who does not know much about Magecraft, but with a "I do not mind being called that", he easily accepted it, and from there on, there were many times when he was referred to as that. In order to return the favour to the Master of Chaldea who broke into the hearts of the mountainfolk, and also broke through the Lion King, throwing away his grand title, he became the sword of the summoner, known as "The Old Man of the Mountain". This is a bit of a digression, but in the early days of FGO's development, even a special summoning banner was taking into consideration. It was an idea where, by collecting one hundred Hassans (any kind of Hassans) and fusing them, you could summon him. 『Oh...? The Hassans are...? A unique SSR Servant that anybody can get if they just persevere, one you can obtain even if you have no luck! His name is Ki~ng Hassa~n!』 ......It was the model example for something interesting that can not be put into practice.
 
It's just curious to me because Gilgamesh is the original hero and has divine heritage while Merlin has been compared to the Beasts yet KH who was born as a normal human managed to reach the line between life and death and was put on the same pedestal as them. I really hope we find out his full story one day.
 
Because he follows the one true God. For some reason, those who follow him are really quite strong.

-Hassans: All master assassins with the first being the greatest among them.

-Martha: Original legend has her praying to Tarsaque to make him heel. In Fate universe, she straight up punches the dragon into submission

-Shirou Kotomine can make a black hole, yet he's considered a shit-tier servant.

-Jeanne is considered a top-class servant who can somehow survive a barrage from the Gate of Babylon without defending. Even when only in legend she's just a super famous saint whose only feat is being a flag bearer for an army, getting captured, then being burnt.

-David carries the Ark which can rip through Herk's god hand like it's not even there, something that Artemis complains she should have been able to do had she had even a shred of her original self. He also has his stones, but who cares about that when he has a freaking Incense Burner that summons the fire of God to incinerate everyone without leaving even a trace of blood behind.

-Moses called down the plagues, something Ozymandias said would have caused the annihilation of Egypt if he didn't have the gods backing him up. He's also implied to have the pillar of fire as his noble phantasm, giving off a light equal to Excalibur.

-St. George is pretty much invincible when defending something. If he really wants to, he can become a dragon slayer by forcibly channeling the ultimate defense into the ultimate offense.

-Solomon's existence.

So if you want to be able to kill anyone with a touch and be as strong as 'AUO' just turn to the one true God. He shall provide. xD
 
Shirou Kotomine can make a black hole that can absorb EX ranked concept destroying flames, and he's shit tier???
 
Yeah, I remembered reading that he damaged his own body to the point that his natural body went down a rank for his beliefs so that might have been part of it.
 
Shirou Kotomine was just some random boy who got all of his followers killed. He was a pretty good guy who simply wanted to help everyone, but he's not a famous legend nor a famous hero. Hell, he's not even recognized as a saint by the Catholic Church.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Shirou Kotomine can make a black hole that can absorb EX ranked concept destroying flames, and he's shit tier???
Click to expand...
Its because he needs an extreme amount of prep to do it, and he needs to have a connection to the lay lines already, which at that point already puts him far ahead towards winning the war
 
How do they know a fully grown tree contains a universe when we haven't seen any? Because if it's speculation by Holmes and da Vinci we absolutely should not take it at face value.
 
I mean

Don't give me crap for looking at Type Moon on this, but it says the trees sustain the lostbelt, which is like a parallel timeline or something.
 
Hypothesis from Fallacies, though some of her specifics are fact.

What follows is purely hypothesis:

Arcuied Brunestud possesses superstrength / superspeed and authority to request Marble Phantasm.

Comparatively, the Beauty of Yu / Akuta Hinako can request mana from the environment, and bears Authority over the Tree of Fusang. The mana that she collects to herself is used for the realization of Curses, vaguely akin to the Greater Grail of Fuyuki. Aside from perhaps the manifestation of different clothing, it's never directly confirmed that she has the capacity to request Marble Phantasm.

Moreover, even though she qualifies as a being of a Vampiric Breed, Hinako never exhibits the sort of bloodlust that Arc describes in Tsukihime.

All in all, there's not really that much overlap between Arcuied and Hinako.

Now, the Tree of Fusang is described as "an archive of data pertaining to every manner of life." Holmes believes that no tree, of the Age of the Gods or not, would be able to handle such a quantity of data; and so he hypothesizes that the Tree might have some sort of a subspace Dimension within it -- which Koyanskaya confirms. Then it's revealed that the Dimension within was of sufficient capacity to contain a Tree of Fantasy.

We never see the Tree of Fusang directly, but we're told that it's specifically biological in nature. Also, just in case it wasn't clear, the Tree of Fusang and the Tree of Fantasy aren't precisely the same existence. Where I'm going with this is -- "an archive of information pertaining to every manner of life." Doesn't that sound a lot like Moon Cell?

Then, might the Tree of Fusang by something akin to a Moontree Terminal?

What if the True Ancestors of the Universe of Grand Order were in reality descended from Moon Cell rather than Crimson Moon?

(As an aside, do recall that the human identity of "Akuta Hinako" isn't so much a disguise as a state of reduced performance, wherein she becomes susceptible to mortal injury by conventional means. At the time that she gorged herself on the blood of her Servant, she had in fact sustained mortal injury. However, we're told that even if she is killed, it's potentially possible that she could resurrect or be resurrected by means that wouldn't work with a human corpse. Arcuied, for reference, was able pull her own body back together after being cut up into 17 chunks of meat.)
 
I doubt it's a universe. A galaxy is honestly more believable. Mashu's like 'Oh shit, these scientific heat levels and cosmic gamma rays are insane and quickly growing bigger'. Da Vinci is all like 'Damn, there's a freaking galaxy in there. A fully established cosmos in the tree'. Holmes is all just like 'Inside the hollow of that tree is another cosmos. Shit, it's looking at us'.

Both Da Vinci and Holmes explicitly use the terms 'Galaxy' and 'Cosmos'. Cosmos is greek for the world, but then why would Da Vinvi say Galaxy as well? Da Vinci could have just said '*Gasp* There's an entire world inside that cosmic tree!' If we simply disregard what they said, we'd also have to disregard the fact that Da Vinci was like 'There's no noble phantasm that could produce the necessary energy needed to blow up the Earth'.
 
They use the term Universe when talking about the full grown tree. Don't see why Galaxy is more believable when that is already above what Golden Fox (Somone who could beat 100 Servants/Heroic Spirits) has shown.

Why would the galaxy statement affect a separate statement regarding the planet and the power of nps.
 
Does it use the word Universe? I don't know, I'm just going off of what Fallacies translated and the translations that are put out are usually pretty reliable. The words Galaxy, Cosmos, and World are all used. Cosmos and World are the same I think while Galaxy is just straight up a Galaxy inside the World.

And I said the Galaxy statement would affect the statement Da Vinci said about the planet and Noble phantasms is because NotEvenHuman said that speculation on their part shouldn't be taken at face value. Thus, the fact that Da Vinci is all like 'Well, there shouldn't be any Noble Phantasm capable of high-energy yield enough to destroy the earth' shouldn't be taken at face value either because how the hell would she know?
 
The planet thing wasn't really speculation though? And even if it was, the context is completely different. Da Vinci doesn't know what the Trees really are, how they function, what they can do, etc. All she, or anyone in Chaldea for that matter, knows about the Trees, is that they're big and the Lostbelt goes down if you destroy them.

Compare that to how much she knows about Noble Phantasms. She's seen hundreds of them, including Ea, Vasavi Shakti, Excalibur, Rhongomyniad, Pashupata, etc. And she still says none of them have enough firepower to destroy the Earth.
 
Da Vinci is certain that the thing inside the tree is actually a galaxy or contains a galaxy. She even explicitly says she's certain about this when she analyzes the data that Mashu sends over to her. What she and Holmes are confused about is the exact 'true' nature of the tree and how it was created, how it works besides spreading, etc.

Also, it's not like she goes out of her way to calculate the numerical power output of every single NP she sees. Unless she does when no one is watching... dun dun dun.
 
I just want my Liangyu and Gao doujins.

I've already seen fanart of the former and even the latter, and it hasn't even been a week still since their debut 😂
 
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