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New Star Trek revisions

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Aeyu

VS Battles
Retired
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I posted this in part on another thread:

I calc'ed the phasers at maximum and minimum input (as seen in the above link) I propose that phasers (Type 2 issue; this would cover all characters in the sequel series past TOS; like Picard, Seven of Nine, and any future profiles. I'll check up on the calcs for the 23rd century either in this thread later, or a different thread entirely.)

  • Need to be 9-B at lowest setting (They can incapicitate most humanoids, including the far larger Klingons who can easily snap bones with their bare hands and overpower even Jem'Hadar when trained enough)
  • To Low 7-C (They vaporize 650 cubic meters of rock per second when at their highest setting, which amounts to 16,705,000,000,000 joules when put through our calcs, though this can overheat relatively quickly - about 2-3 seconds even. Indoors can be too dangerous; (this could be listed as a weakness) because someone who fired one inside a hospital blew himself up along with the building, which was likely made of a superhard alloy, and yet still obliterated)
  • EVA compression rifles and Type 3 phaser weaponry are at least three times as powerful as regular phasers (Type 3s use at least three times the power of a regular phaser due to being at least three times larger and having more robust batteries and settings; and pack enough punch to heavily damage even the Borg. Compression Phasers are several times more powerful than Type 3 rifles and have explosive shots. A good range would be just 7-C)
This would look like:

9-B to Low 7-C based on Type 2 Phaser settings. 7-C with Type 3 and Compression Phasers


To be honest, the ratings for phaser AP vs shields is frankly unnecessary. It can just be put in durability for ships, for instance, that shields have a dampening effect on less powerful weaponry. Shields can be turned on and off, as well, and a ship most likely will start any battle with full shields.

Along with this, there's still the discussion of giving Q Morality Manipulation and discussing if Dr. Mannheim's infinite dimensions described as being different temporal dimensions in the episode "We'll Always Have Paris" or the "limitless dimensions of the galaxy" + subspace having an infinite series of domains, higher and lower on a spectrum, as described by Geordi LaForge, and subspace generally being connected to the phenomena of higher dimensions themselves lends to a Possibly High 1-B rating for the absolute highest rated characters or not.

Additionally, I really do want to discuss the issue of Nagilum's tier again. How does existing on a higher perspective, in a void outside of reality and the multiverse, with no physical dimensions and not understanding a "limited existence" not correlate with 1-A or Possibly 1-A? He not only is present in this physically dimensionless void, but embodies it, as he can fully control the contents of it and is not limited to the form he takes. It can be assumed that the void is timeless as well, as the concept of existing and then ceasing to exist is totally alien to him.
 
You should post the calc you did and see if it gets accepted. there was a previous calc and that was done wrong. i think somebody corrected the highest setting to large building or city block. But yeah they could vaporize a tunnel of rock large enough to crawl through. the lowest setting could also be calc but been placed at 9-C for destroying large urns, not sure if the value can be derived via incapacitation due to durability negation.

This only covers Type 1-3 phasers but we got nothing on Type 4 and above which would supply the stats for shuttlecrafts and starships.
 
There is no calc for the 8-C thing, and furthermore, it's irrelevant if the lowest setting is 9-B and the highest can vaporize 650 cubic meters of rock. Doing that within 1 second (as it does) from 100+ meters yields 16,705,000,000,000 joules per second needed to cause such a vaporization, firmly into mid-range Low 7-C.
 
650 m^3 is huge, vaproize a rock that size should be much higher. the previous calc put hand phasers at small city lvl tho
 
Although i haven't watched Star Trek in too long (like a year), i agree with these suggestions, with the exception of the Nagilum thing due to my lack of knowledge when it comes to Outerversal scales.

Also, a phaser set at the highest Stun setting (which is lower than the fatal setting used to take out Jem'Hadar) would have immobilised Data. Exact quote from Rassumssen: "This phaser is set at the highest stun setting. If i am correct, that is sufficient to immobilise even you (Data)". Rass then says "You (Data) won't be awake for the ride".
 
About light stun setting

  • Standard composite structural materials of median-density (consisting typically of multiple layers of tritanium, duranium, cortenite, lignin, and lithium-silicon-carbon 372) are not permanently affected, although some warming (from vibration) will be detected.
the calc that put phasers at small city level: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Colonel_Krukov/Star_Trek_phaser,_to_kill

Possibly High 1-B is possible from the descriptions
 
Bump again. It would be nice for this to get some attention.
 
Thing is though, I don't know if Trek is well-known enough on the Wiki to warrant a highlight :T
 
Aeyu said:
Thing is though, I don't know if Trek is well-known enough on the Wiki to warrant a highlight :T
That is why we have highlights.

Ask Matt or another admin to see if its highlight worthy.

Been this way for like a week.
 
probably need to post this in the calc evaluation request thread or get one of them to comment here
 
You can't be 1-A if you don't transcend temporal dimensions. I'm not experienced in Star Trek, though.
 
Temporal dimensions are physical dimensions, though, which the void has none of. It's not a stretch to assume that Nagilum is timeless when it doesn't understand the concept of a limited existence (one where you exist and then cease to exist)
 
NAGILUM [on viewscreen]: Your life form surprises me more and more. Is it true you also have only a limited existence? Answer!
PICARD: What information do you want? I don't understand the question.
NAGILUM [on viewscreen]: You exist and then you cease to exist. Your minds call it death.
(Haskell starts to shake, holds his head and screams before suffering the fate usually reserved for red shirts)
NAGILUM [on viewscreen]: How interesting.
PULASKI: He's gone.
PICARD: We cannot allow you to do that! We will fight you.
NAGILUM [on viewscreen]: To understand death, I must amass information on every aspect of it. Every kind of dying. The experiments shouldn't take more than a third of your crew, maybe half.
 
Aeyu said:
Temporal dimensions are physical dimensions, though, which the void has none of. It's not a stretch to assume that Nagilum is timeless when it doesn't understand the concept of a limited existence (one where you exist and then cease to exist)
Ah, thanks.
 
Let us check the requirements for 1-A...

Characters that have no dimensional limitations.

Basically, a being or an object which is outside and beyond all concepts of time and space. This is something completely formless, abstract, metaphysical and transcendental. The usual scale does not make sense against a beyond dimensional object. Such beings can not be affected by destruction within the dimensions of time and space, or physical matter and energy. This "space" in which there is no dimension can be the background for any dimensional space. Within such a beyond dimensional "space", a dimensional structure with any number of dimensions can be placed, because there are no restrictions regarding dimensions.

Note that all tier 1-A characters have qualitative superiority over dimensional structures and concepts. Also, mere capability to exist in a beyond dimensional domain does not qualify a character as a beyond dimensional being.


Did the Enterprise entered the Void?
 
Did the Enterprise entered the Void?

If yes, 1-A Nagilum can be a wank since I don't see that the Enterprise could just enter dimensionless void or Nagilum converting the Enterprise to dimensionless format.

If no, 1-A Nagilum is fine.

Were there any interactions between Nagilum and Q (or other godlike beings)?
 
Yes, through a hole in space. That doesn't affect the nature of Nagilum though, who encompasses and embodies said void.

1. No need to convert the Enterprise into something dimensionless.

2. Non-dimensionless beings can exist in a dimensionless area.

3. Nagilum can interact outside its own void and has power over the regular multiverse.

4. Nagilum was a one off and doesn't scale to Q or any other godlike beings.

It's like the Warp in 40K. Just because something can exist in the Warp doesn't immediately make it High 1-B or 1-A if the Warp is decided to be the latter.

"This "space" in which there is no dimension can be the background for any dimensional space. Within such a beyond dimensional "space", a dimensional structure with any number of dimensions can be placed, because there are no restrictions regarding dimensions."
 
1. No need to convert the Enterprise into something dimensionless.
No comments from me.

2. Non-dimensionless beings can exist in a dimensionless area.
Maybe in Star Trek, but what about it in the Real World? Are there any theories?

3. Nagilum can interact outside its own void and has power over the regular multiverse.
That's obvious.

4. Nagilum was a one off and doesn't scale to Q or any other godlike beings.
I see... So, he's really a oneshot (kind of) character.

Edit: Some offtopic, but I like Nagilum. Pretty good character.
 
Theories on dimensionless areas? Well, there could potentially be transphysical domains that operate through different mathematical permutations, thus excluding the concept of dimensions. We don't really have ways to find out the properties of said vacua/universes though. You could say that all mathematical/physical entities exist as Platonic Ideals, but again, we don't have any theories about such things within the realm of anything but advanced speculative physics. And it's not just how ST treats these areas, they're treated this way throughout all franchises.

And yeah, he only appeared in one episode. Doesn't even make appearances in the extended licensed universe.
 
@Aeyu
Mmmm... Dimensions are existing in dimensionless area, but can non-dimensionless being exist in dimensionless area? I doubt that it can.

Still, we can't really apply the Real World to science fiction XD
I'm sorry, but I'm just a 7th grader Russian student, so...

We need to hear more opinions about 1-A Nagilum. For now, I'd prefer to have possible 1-A Nagilum than solid 1-A until you'll force me to prefer solid one :)
 
1. "Within such a beyond dimensional "space", a dimensional structure with any number of dimensions can be placed"

Also, I've recommended possibly 1-A for a while, it's even in the OP.

And no, you're fine lol
 
Aeyu said:
1. "Within such a beyond dimensional "space", a dimensional structure with any number of dimensions can be placed"

Also, I've recommended possibly 1-A for a while, it's even in the OP.

And no, you're fine lol
I'm sorry for misunderstanding the Non-dimensionless being existing in dimensionless area thing; it just confuses me.

By the way, I'm fine with your other revisions.
 
Sorry, head glitch in the last post. I somehow misread as Star Wars. Anyway, you can check the Knowledgeable Members List for people to ask to give imput here.
 
Azathoth might also be an idea to ask for input.
 
Not too sure. I don't think so, though. Nagilum's scaling has nothing to do with the Q's.
 
I disagree with 1-A Nagilum, if that's the thing I was needed for. Just "this area has no dimensions" is not enough to go on for a 1-A rating. All we really know is that it didn't understand a "limited existence" (as in one of birth, life, and death), and that it was outside the universe.

I would like to see Mannheim's statement of infinite temporal dimensions, though.
 
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