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New Testament 22 Updates

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After the release of the NT22 on BT, there has been enough time to read it and digest it.

Here are some of the revisions that have been compiled:

Tier/AP/Speed upgrades

5-B/Planetary upgrades for Aleister, Accelerator and the Nerfed Magic Gods. All of them were able to fight on par with Coronzon and/or fight on with someone who scales to Coronzon. In addition, Coronzon and the Nerfed MG's should also have their Speed stat scaled to Accel, both of which are currently set as "Unknown". Coronzon becomes Sub-Relativistic, which scales around.

ACCELERATOR

Forced Astral Projection and/or Limited Soul Manip should be added:

He used the macro as a way of moving the micro.' ''By adding a large tree to the cosmos and thoroughly shaking the world out to the ends of the galaxy, he was applying a physical blow to a single person's flesh and blood. 'All to force an astral projection initiated by an external third party.

The AP tier would be either 4-B/Solar System level, possibly higher depending on the results of the calc. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U..._the_Galaxy_(Platinum_Wings_Accelerator_calc) This is due to the fact that it was akin to a Holistic phenomenon, which uses cosmically large-scale mechanisms to produce an extremely scall-scale result. This would be as applicable as we have a precedent in Gabriel's Astro In Hand AP tier rating.

Similarly, there is evidence that the physical motion of shaking affected other areas aside from the designated target.

But then there was a sudden change. It was like the beating of a giant heart. ''Who would have understood what it was if they were only told it had come from Coronzon's body? It was a deep and low noise that seemed to shake the temple itself. Not even beating on a drum taller than a person would have shaken the air to this extent.

And this too:

Just then, Villian felt something invisible hit her in the chest. No, she was not the only one. "What was…that?" "The field is shaking, but it does not seem this was done with Curtana's cutting power."

Range is definitely Galaxy however. It should also be noted that he can attack anyone anywhere and doesn't seem to need to know their exact location. Accel was currently in a fight with Nephthys, and thus had no idea where Coronzon was, and yet was able to project her soul. By the time the mental link was established, the attack was already in the middle of affecting her.

"Master, I have detected Great Demon Coronzon's thoughts. I'm a demon she created, so establishing a connection is easy for me. Should I verbalize it for you?"

Regenerationn Negation needs to be added:

''An explosive noise burst out. But it was not the sound of the violent gale Accelerator had been trying to unleash. This was less distinct. It was an invisible power that covered every part of the world. '''''His vector control ability twisted it into a vortex that rushed toward Nephthys like a giant spear. "Tch!!"

'The brown goddess had preserved her beauty even as her torso was blown away, but she finally clicked her tongue and pushed Accelerator off of her. This slightly diverted the spear's trajectory so it only sliced off a tuft of her long silver hair. Something was different from before. The separated hair did not reconnect and it simply rotted away."


Nevertheless, seeing as Accel now controls the Clonoth (the aforementioned 3rd Tree), he should be beyond all 3 Aeons of Isis, Osiris, and Horus. This would likely add "Interference with Aeon-based magic", as it's quite obvious that attacks of a previous Aeon have less of an effect on those of a higher one. Regen Negation is only one specific example of that.


POST-HEADSHOT KEY

Durability possibly upgraded to 1-C due to being able to reflect Coronzon's attack.

<<<Justification for it can be found below for Magick: Flaming_Sword>>>

"My right hand contains Nuit of Resurrection and my left hand contains Hadit of Vengeance. Combined, they form the Circle of Ra-Hoor-Khuit, which…" The special attack released by Great Demon Coronzon clashed head-on with the Level 5 who could manipulate any and all vectors. A mass of invisible power scattered in every direction. No. It was torn apart by a human will.

New abilities for his Vector Control: Energy and Water Manipulation: The first for manipulating Coronzon's attacks and the latter in his fight with Nephthys.

"And because demons are constructed from an energy similar to Telesma, pieces of that energy can be cut away using the proper methods.

Accelerator held the nail of his middle finger with his thumb. He made a light flick like one might use on the forehead of someone who refused to listen. And he used it on a drop of water falling from the ceiling.


Accel should also gain occultic knowledge regarding the 78 Tarot cards,

"I will provide you with what you need to know by installing the knowledge of the entire tree of 78 cards.

as well as knowledge of the Qliphoth and the Sephiroth, as Qliphah Puzzle is a demon of the Qliphoth, and she is also an identical clone of Coronzon, who is a demon of the Sephiroth.

Qliphah Puzzle 545 was an artificial demon. She was a supernatural being who had been downsized for convenience by having a portion of her functionality cut away. But what model was she based on? She had been created by Great Demon Coronzon. And that Great Demon would naturally have used the most readily-available model she had: herself.

Accel also has knowledge on all Academy City secrets, as he is now the new Head Chairman. Both of these would be severe intelligence upgrades, maybe equipment upgrade for the latter. Academy City technology is very easily able to outperform every nation on Earth combined, and the 3rd Tree grants him occultic knowledge, so this is justification for Accel to rise up to the top-tiers of "Extraordinary Genius".

After breathing a few shallow breaths, Aleister pulled a boxy object from her bloodstained skirt pocket. It appeared to be a perfectly ordinary smartphone. It was in fact the one Academy City's board chairman had used to perform the satellite bombing. She had used it to release the lock on Academy City. It had to include an incredible list of codes.


His base physical durability (without the vector shield) should also be increased from Street level to Wall level. Other characters such as Touma would scale to his feat.

The corridor wall was torn apart in a surprise attack. The person who made such an exciting appearance had long silver hair, brown skin, and bandages that were wrapped around her. Her bare foot had forced its way through the vector reflection barrier and kicked the #1 through the air. Her leg ended up twisted at an unnatural angle, but that did not keep her from laughing. The broken leg wriggled in a way no human leg ever should as the bone and joint were repaired. It happened so easily it was like seeing a balloon being inflated.


CORONZON


Aethyr Avatars are created from her golden hair. This would be "Class M" in Lifting Strength. I don't know how much AP it would be though, as it fluctuates depending on how much attention she pays.

A giant golden pillar burst up right next to the gray ship. The wave that produced was enough to lift up the 150,000-ton ship, flood the coastal area, and cause a slight panic.

Flaming-Sword (This should be taken as a High Complex Multiversal feat as it was able to completely destroy IB on contact)

"Magick: Flaming_Sword. Manifest thyself through descent of the Sephirah and bathe him in thy power." It happened suddenly. (...) But the small god managed to direct a shout of despair toward the swiftly moving boy. "Wait, human!! The world's reference point is not enough to suppress this attack!!" A moment later, everyone witnessed that instant. With a dull sound, that right hand and Kamijou Touma himself were utterly destroyed.

Further justification for the 1-C rating was also due to being compared to the destructive power of Othinus's lance of Gungnir, which was able to shatter nearly every Phase in existence.

This was the ultimate attack that rivaled a Magic God's lance and had utterly destroyed a certain boy despite the presence of Imagine Breaker.

Gungnir's best feat:

As the lance was fired with tremendous force, the "happy world" was smashed to pieces as if space itself was being torn apart. As a fragment of the world approached with the force of a raging wave, it took on the shape of a giant lance. The walls of all the phases were crushed, transformed into a swirl of deadly weapons resembling sharp shards of glass, and approached their pitiful target as if to swallow him whole. Everything was ripped up. The black labyrinth, which had used up all of its possibilities, showed itself.

Gungnir has been rpeatedly stated to control and regulate Othinus's powers as a Magic God, including her ability to affect the 11th-dimension.

"Please wait!! He…he really did bend the entire world before my eyes! It was like…like this… It's hard to explain, but the walls, floor, and ceiling all turned into weapons, tunnels appeared in the people in the way, and they all attacked me at once!"

"Have you forgotten?" Othinus sounded almost utterly exasperated. "This is the Dianoid. The entire building is made of carbon materials.
That means you don't need control over every phase, every DIMENSION, and every element to manipulate everything around you. A magician with control over carbon and nothing else can pull that one off."

<<Othinus was refering to her original power as a Magic God and explaining that a magician with control over carbon could "control the world" (not in the same sense or level as a Magic God). And considering that since Vol 1 or 2 Magic Gods are described as being able to freely manipulate the entirety of the world, from basic things like elemental manipulation to change the laws that define reality itself, it reinforces her statement.>>

_______________________________

Moving onwards, she is beyond all 3 Aeons, so she receives "Interference with Aeon-based magic" much like Accel does.

"Isis, Osiris, and Horus. I exist beyond all Aeons, so did you really think that would be enough to break me?"

Coronzon's durability is dependant upon whether or not she has a physical avatar to stabilize her existence. When she does have a vessel, she is resistant to Excorcism.

"But I am Great Demon Coronzon, the only demon to have gained my own body of flesh and blood. Not even Satan and Beelzebub could manage that. The tree is not just to ascend. Descending it every once in a while can be fun. For better or for worse, this cage of flesh stabilizes my soul and makes me sturdy enough to remain unshaken when I command an energy very similar to Telesma."

Coronzon can also knock people out via a method similar to People-Clearing-Fields, which operate off of Feng Shui. In other words, mental manipulation.


Hamazura screamed because, when Coronzon snapped her fingers, the fishermen and youths in tartan clothing collapsed on the spot. It scared them how easy it had been. Not even poison gas would have knocked them out so quickly. It seemed like some of them had noticed them and turned around, but the result was the same. She had not used a stun gun or tranquilizer gun, so there was nothing they could do. The people were knocked out one after another without any way to resist.

"You can't let a little thing like this shock you. This is not much different from the people-clearing fields everyone uses. The only difference is in whether you shut them down or control them. If you ask me, immediately knocking them out isn't anywhere near as nasty as a people-clearing fields that mess with people's minds without them even knowing it happened."


MISAKI


Category 061 need to be added. It allowed the Invisible Thing to be chained by convincing Touma's mind that his right hand still existed, even after it had been chopped apart by Aleister.

"Mental Out! Use Category 061: Sensory Misidentification. It only has to be temporary, but trick his brain into thinking his right arm exists past the elbow!!"

Category 433 needs to be added too. Both would be Sensory Manipulation.

"Category 433: Pain Shutoff. I can reduce my body's pain enough to keep moving."


NIANG-NIANG


Spark magic need to be added. These are the same "sparks" that Crowley uses in NT18.

When she ran forward, the fanned-out weapons restlessly clanked together, sending disconcerting sparks everywhere. It was like the electrodes of a stun gun but different. Anyone who had pursued the system of magic to this point would realize what was happening when they heard the word "sparks".

Each of the sage weapons that this Magic God had created by transforming her fingers were used to manage the vast power of a Shijie-Xian by dividing it up into genres: attack, defense, recovery, close-quarters, ranged, etc. These miracles would cancel each other out and refuse to mix if they were combined, so she was essentially constructing walls between them, placing them in separate frames, and preserving their purity.


'(...) The scale was different, but it was the same phenomenon as the world's phase system that divided up the different legends and managed them in their own realms that existed on different levels. 'Beyond the visible threat, the recreated sparks flying from there would attack the target from an unseen blind spot. Just like a scorpion holding its poor prey in its pincers and then swinging its venomous stinger upon their head.


NEPHTHYS


Forced Power Boosting needs to be updated.

That was why her entire identity as a Magic God was contained in her tears.Tears of joy, tears of rage, tears of sorrow, and tears of mirth. And in this case… "Tears of transmission? It lets her boost whatever magic she targets?"

Water Manipulation as well.

"Vast waters that symbolize the Nile, wash away this silly person's malice."This was far more than the artificial rain coming from the sprinklers. It had to be taken from the air and from the boards of the stage. If not for his reflection, it probably would have been taken from Accelerator's body as well. Every speck of moisture in that space was extracted and gathered together to form a giant blade extending above Nephthys's raised left hand.

Regenerationn (Possibly Low to High Mid) also need to be added.

"I am Nephthys, a collection of the tens of thousands of slaves and servants buried along with the pharaohs." (...) "So my body never did require the circulation of an individual. I contain countless linked loops of life force, so even if one part is severed, the pathway can be rerouted to preserve the overall circulation. Cutting just one of the parallel wires will not shut off the light bulb. Did you think destroying what looks like my brain or heart would be enough to kill me?"


QLIPHAH PUZZLE


Garbage/Debris Manipulation added to her abilities. (Is that even a thing???)

Qliphah Puzzle 545 was a possessing demon. To appear in the surface world on her own, she used an artificial birthing ceremony to construct a door and pushed her translucent body through that for a forced manifestation. Yes. She gathered together all of the trash in the vicinity. She gathered together the ice trees, the shattered ice surface, and all other unnecessary items, formed a vortex several dozen meters across, converted it all into a white tornado stretching to the heavens, and transformed herself into a winter natural disaster.

Control over the Clonoth should be added too, as she is one of the key components in its creation. Qliphah's durability will be upgraded to Building level+


ALEISTER

Healing magic should be added to his abilities, using his Saint-purified body as a component.

She clasped her hands in front of her chest as if squeezing the fresh juice from a fruit. She extracted the scarlet liquid from her own wounds.Something invisible passed through all of the boy's blood vessels to reach every part of his body.

The burst blood vessels and disturbed blood flow was used to automatically determine what needed healing and a gentle light enveloped all of the torn, crushed, and hopelessly destroyed parts. Bone, flesh, muscle, and skin returned to that of the original boy, like it was being polished with an invisible silk cloth. It was like popping a collapsed plastic doll back into shape.


He also can use an anti-demon weakening spell.

"Now, let us follow the story of St. Margaret who worshiped the cross. Because I know you loathe those morality plays as much as I do." The father pressed her leather shoe's heel against the daughter's forehead. "I will step on you." "That is a symbol of stripping away a demon, stealing its power, removing the disaster, and retrieving peace, Great Demon Coronzon."

As well as a anti-evil sealing spell. (Both from NT19)

Anyone who knew anything about modern Western magic would immediately recognize it as the Banner of the West. That symbol of exorcism was one of the most convenient Symbolic Weapons that protected the spell user by monitoring and rejecting the approach of evil power on the ceremonial grounds ― for example, something resembling Telesma that was out to get humans. The banner was so useful because good and useful powers would remain unmolested while only the evil and useless powers were affected.
 
Accel:

Galaxy shaking should be 4-B, but I will need to do a calc for that (and get that checked, RIP).

I'm not sure about the attack everywhere regardless position stuff. Considering that he also addressed her it seems more likely that he has certain supernatural senses which allow him to observe Coronzon through a few walls.

I'm unsure about the third tree still relating to Aeon's and hence giving resistances. It could be something outside the system entirely, which means restrictions could not apply both ways. Instead of a water weakness I would just write a general weakness to anything that disconnects him from the network, as more than just water is possible.


Coronzon:

She should additionally get resistance to exorcism when in a vessel.

There are various other techniques probably, but a notable one is the knock out thing:

Hamazura screamed because, when Coronzon snapped her fingers, the fishermen and youths in tartan clothing collapsed on the spot. It scared them how easy it had been. Not even poison gas would have knocked them out so quickly. It seemed like some of them had noticed them and turned around, but the result was the same. She had not used a stun gun or tranquilizer gun, so there was nothing they could do. The people were knocked out one after another without any way to resist.
Coronzon put her hands on her hips.

"You can't let a little thing like this shock you. This is not much different from the people-clearing fields everyone uses. The only difference is in whether you shut them down or control them. If you ask me, immediately knocking them out isn't anywhere near as nasty as a people-clearing fields that mess with people's minds without them even knowing it happened."
Aleister: There is also the red beam blood sacrifice spell, though that's minor.


I agree with everything else.
 
I would like to propose an upgrade to Qliphah's regen. as seen in the latest volumes, she can freely change into a physical and a non-physical state, just as she can create a new body using any nearby garbage, but after the fight with Aleister, where 10 Qliphoth spheres were destroyed , she was not able to create a new body easily, all this said here is my proposal: the qliphot that needs to be destroyed to kill qliphah is her soul, and if her soul is intact, her regen would be low-godly, but , if sufficiently damaged her regen falls to high-mid
 
I would be fine with low-godly if I was really certain what the qliphoth tree that is destroyed is.

As it stands I am very uncertain whether she might not, for example, needs her current vessel intact in order to reappear by creating a new at another spot.
 
Speaking of Qliphah would it be possible to give her a tier by the ice tornado thing? Or is it still impossible to scale?
 
Are we going to add new key tab for accel after he have new clonoth tree or just add all those ability to post headshoot accel?
 
Another thing that could possibly support my proposal is the fact that Coronzon must have the body and soul destroyed to be killed, and Qliphah was made based on Coronzon.

About the tornado, I think it might be possible for her to have a tier based on that, but maybe not.

Btw, why the saints don't have supernatural luck on their profiles?
 
Cool someone made it.

Now most of this seems fine but I would like to point out one thing.

Othinus is high 1-c. The text compares Gungnir to Coronzons Magick.

Unless you think Gungnir doesn't use all of Othinus' power by a magnitude of infinities, or gungnir is holding back (lol) This Should be High 1-c
 
So the tier adjustments would look like this:

At least 5-B AP/Dura likely far higher (Aleister Accelerator Post headshot base and Nerf gods comparable to Coronzon

Platinum Wings Accel: Solar System level (Thoroughly Shook a Galaxy, calc to be made?)

Accelerator should have Soul manipulation (able to force Coronzon out of her vessel)

and High Complex Multiversal Dura for Accelerators Vector shield


Do we now scale mathers to Planet level aswell for matching Aleister?
 
accel

i still think his feat for the addition was just figurative speech, he messed with phases but not at practical lvl, he just did something similar to fiamma when he fixed the elements

it's listed already that cutting the signal his one of his weakness, water always had the property to interfere with them

coronzon

she and accel are not resistant to aeon based magic, as those damage them just fine
 
Scrlk666777 said:
Speaking of Qliphah would it be possible to give her a tier by the ice tornado thing? Or is it still impossible to scale?
We might be able to scale it based off the size and weight of the ship that it was targeting.

I kinda sorta agree with low-godly regen.

And XDragonoir, I feel like the Saintly "Luck" is a bit too vague. I mean we've never really seen it in action. It seems to fall under the same category of IB negating Touma's luck and stuff, non-applicable.
 
TIHYDDWBE said:
Othinus is high 1-c. The text compares Gungnir to Coronzons Magick.

Unless you think Gungnir doesn't use all of Othinus' power by a magnitude of infinities, or gungnir is holding back (lol) This Should be High 1-c
Gugnir may indeed by less powerful than what Othinus archieves through rewriting the world.

As Niang niang said for example "But not even we can convert the dead into the living. Unless we entirely remake the world." Basically, there are things beyond magic gods power that is only possible when they reality warp the entire universe. Their mythology based powers can in comparision be more limited.

The power of their mythological powers can very much vary. Best example: Othinus Bone Boat and her crossbow. The bone boat can move still move the entire universe at a point were the crossbow is already just in the upper ends of planet level.

Hence we should go by what Gungnir accomplished individually.
 
@Malox

Accel suffered from magic recoil not Aeon based magic and regardless if Coronzon can be damaged by Aeon magic she can't be killed by Aeon based magic. So she still has resistance to Aeon base magic and Accel more than likely does as well.
 
Malox1696 said:
accel
i still think his feat for the addition was just figurative speech, he messed with phases but not at practical lvl, he just did something similar to fiamma when he fixed the elements

it's listed already that cutting the signal his one of his weakness, water always had the property to interfere with them

coronzon

she and accel are not resistant to aeon based magic, as those damage them just fine
Alright, I'll remove the water/choker section.

But for the Aeon thing, when Accel attacked Nephthys with the "invisible energy", she was rendered incapable of healing. Similarly, when Coronzon destroyed Touma, the aftereffects of her attack prevented the Saint-healing spell from remaking his right hand. If it's not "resistance", it should at least be classified as "magical interference". it's quite obvious that there is a pecking-order of priority here. Some attacks have less priority than others.
 
@DT Why would Gungnir destroying the world be weaker than Othinus recreating it? Its her signature weapon which lets her control the full power of a Magic God and is hardly comparable to the others.

But the Dvergr's techniques were different. They had the power that had given the Norse gods their power. With the holy spear Gungnir that Odin used, you had 100% of Odin's attack power. With the lightning hammer Mjölnir that Thor used, you had 100% of Thor's lightning element power. The term "Magic God" floated up in the back of Stiyl's mind. The term did not refer to the god of the demon world. It referred to one who had so utterly mastered magic that he or she entered the territory of a god.
 
I'm not sure on this since it's unknown how powerful Neph's kick was but I'll bring it up anyway.

Would this be grounds to possibly upgrade Accel's durability without vector shield from street to wall?

There was a loud boom just as he turned his attention elsewhere.

This must have been a surprise for Hamazura Shiage as well.

The corridor wall was torn apart in a surprise attack.

The person who made such an exciting appearance had long silver hair, brown skin, and bandages that were wrapped around her. Her bare foot had forced its way through the vector reflection barrier and kicked the #1 through the air. Her leg ended up twisted at an unnatural angle, but that did not keep her from laughing. The broken leg wriggled in a way no human leg ever should as the bone and joint were repaired. It happened so easily it was like seeing a balloon being inflated.


I'm thinking of the force of Neph's kick rather than the fact that he went flying through a wall since he had his vector shield on. But the force of Neph's kick to the face when she managed to force her way through reflection was powerful enough it sent Accel flying and tore the wall apart. It would have taken some force to do that.
 
I doubt it would really make any difference in the actual fights, but sure whatever lol
 
@DontTalkDT

So what are the conclusions here?
 
Zensum said:
@DT Why would Gungnir destroying the world be weaker than Othinus recreating it? Its her signature weapon which lets her control the full power of a Magic God and is hardly comparable to the others.
But the Dvergr's techniques were different. They had the power that had given the Norse gods their power. With the holy spear Gungnir that Odin used, you had 100% of Odin's attack power. With the lightning hammer Mjölnir that Thor used, you had 100% of Thor's lightning element power. The term "Magic God" floated up in the back of Stiyl's mind. The term did not refer to the god of the demon world. It referred to one who had so utterly mastered magic that he or she entered the territory of a god.
It let's Othinus control her power due to probability manipulation, but it isn't in any way source of her power or would need to be as powerful as her.

As I said, magical artifacts of the gods, like the bone boat and the crossbow, can vary a lot in individual power and universe rewriting magic is viewed is separate form the usual mythology based one.

Last, but not least, let's remember that Imagine Breaker can negate Gugnir, but can not negate Othinus reality warping or god power.

In other words we have a straight up Gungnir < Imagine Breaker < Othinus Reality Warping.

Hence we should definitely go by Gungnirs own feats.
 
The "Accelerator can attack anyone anywhere in range even if he doesn't know where they are" doesn't convince me. The quote put on the OP notes he can establish a direct connection to Coronzon because Qlipah was created by her. That might be the reason he could target her without knowing where it was.

Accelerator should also get Sound Manipulation. He could already shut down sound from reaching him by modifying his reflection, and in the latest Accelerator chapter, 52, he amplified some monkey's cries to the point the soundblast stopped a barrage of bullets. We should also mention how his reflection probably saved him from Nephthys draining the water from his body.

Also, if we're gonna upgrade Accelerator's actual durability to wall level, we would need to upgrade Touma's as well, because he also has that kind of feats. And that could mean upgrading some of the street level people in the verse to wall level AP/durability

Besides the two new categories, Misaki's profile page in the latest Astral Buddy chapter, 18, mentions the amount of people she can control at once with simple commands is in the triple digits, not the dozens we currently have her listed at.

Niang-Niang also got a new technique where she uses the same sparks as Aleister with her weapons.

Aleister has the Babalon spell and an anti-demon christian spell from NT19 that we missed initially.

FInally, Touma gets fish eggs and fish eggs beam.
 
@DontTalk why are you ignoring simple scans and instead creating a convoluted mess of headcanon, headcanon that requires jumping through so many loops and theories that occams razor effectively killed itself reading your post?

>With the holy spear Gungnir that Odin used, you had 100% of Odin's attack power

This is as straightforward as it gets. Gungnir is 100% of her maximum power. Gungnir is not 11 degrees of infinity weaker then her snapping her fingers. Thats asinine.

Not only is it super weird to do the sort of chain scaling you did, how IB interracts with reality warping is unknown as transforming reality is just that. and the level of magic power doesn't really matter to IB, It is constantly shown to be the mechanics of attacks that cause it to fail ( unless you want to make fiammas flamesword low 2c

I also told you in the toaru disc. Thread how coronzon would likely be tier 1 due to the mentioning of the god tiers of egyptian mythos, you also claimed that you didn't think she would be, as coronzons attack was compared to othinus' bow (it wasn't) instead of gungnir. The underlying implication being that if it was, it would support tier 1.

Now theres a gungnir quote and you don't think it is tier 1? I'm curious.
 
DontTalkDT said:
It let's Othinus control her power due to probability manipulation, but it isn't in any way source of her power or would need to be as powerful as her.

As I said, magical artifacts of the gods, like the bone boat and the crossbow, can vary a lot in individual power and universe rewriting magic is viewed is separate form the usual mythology based one.

Last, but not least, let's remember that Imagine Breaker can negate Gugnir, but can not negate Othinus reality warping or god power.

In other words we have a straight up Gungnir < Imagine Breaker < Othinus Reality Warping.

Hence we should definitely go by Gungnirs own feats.
Othinus's power as a Magic God is probablity manipulation. Gungnir lets her unify the endless possibilities to actually harness and wield her full power as a Magic God. That alone makes it equivalent to her.

The weapon of a Norse god was the power of that god itself. The gods could wield their power because they possessed their weapons. There were stories of gods temporarily losing their powers due to losing their weapon or having it stolen. In other words… A human who created a weapon of the gods and could properly wield its power would theoretically be able to control the very power of that god.

???
Why do crossbow and boneboat matter when those aren't the things that allow her to use her Magic God powers freely and are stated to be equal to 100% of her attack power? Gungnir's world ending power and crushing all phases is separate from the usual mythology based power as well.

Imagine Breaker can physically touch the spear to negate it... meanwhile Imagine Breaker cannot negate Othinus directly because at her base she has a human body despite having the properties of a God kinda like how Touma cant negate Saints, not because of "Gungnir < Imagine Breaker < Othinus Reality Warping" like you are insinuating. Othinus literally uses Imagine Breaker as a refernce point to undo her reality warping. Additionally Touma never negated the act of Gungnir or Othinus destroying the world because theres no direct magic he can touch to negate it.
 
I am unsubscribing from this thread. If you need my help with anything after you have reached a conclusion, you can send me a message.
 
LazyHunter said:
The "Accelerator can attack anyone anywhere in range even if he doesn't know where they are" doesn't convince me. The quote put on the OP notes he can establish a direct connection to Coronzon because Qlipah was created by her. That might be the reason he could target her without knowing where it was.
Accelerator should also get Sound Manipulation. He could already shut down sound from reaching him by modifying his reflection, and in the latest Accelerator chapter, 52, he amplified some monkey's cries to the point the soundblast stopped a barrage of bullets. We should also mention how his reflection probably saved him from Nephthys draining the water from his body.

Also, if we're gonna upgrade Accelerator's actual durability to wall level, we would need to upgrade Touma's as well, because he also has that kind of feats. And that could mean upgrading some of the street level people in the verse to wall level AP/durability

Besides the two new categories, Misaki's profile page in the latest Astral Buddy chapter, 18, mentions the amount of people she can control at once with simple commands is in the triple digits, not the dozens we currently have her listed at.

Niang-Niang also got a new technique where she uses the same sparks as Aleister with her weapons.

Aleister has the Babalon spell and an anti-demon christian spell from NT19 that we missed initially.

FInally, Touma gets fish eggs and fish eggs beam.
The direct connection you're referring to is merely a telepathic conversation, so I doubt it. And either way, as soon as she became connected to him, Coronzon was already panting and cursing at him, so it's quite obvious that the Clonoth attack was already happening, long before the mental link was established.

Wall level it is, then.

I'm pretty sure I already have Spark magic up there. Should I add a note saying it's the same sparks Aleister uses? I thought it would be obvious.

Is the anti-demon spell the Banner of the West or St. Margaret thing?

Fish eggs is gonna sound so weird, but okay XD
 
NAh gungunir is not equal to othinus, even birdway created a replica and she did not become a MG

Him being sent in to the wall and surving is just a consequence of his reflection obv no need for upgrade

Him aiding the new 3rd tree is just limited phase manipulation, it can't be translated to AP, what he did is basically messing with the rules so coronzon could not use the loophole to be immortal while having a normal body, his feat is compared to angel fall that messed with rules nothing about AP, the galaxy shaking is just a figure of speech

And agin they are not resistant to aeon based magic, accel reflect as always while coronzon is in an ambiguous state of being human but not at the same time so most spell don't work on her simply cause they can't target both the top of tree and the bottom at the same time

Btw coronzon without avatar is less powerful
 
@Malox...Of course she didn't..... Gungnir doesn't make you a magic god.....

@Destiny which quote in particular are you talking about?
 
TIHYDDWBE said:
@Malox...Of course she didn't..... Gungnir doesn't make you a magic god.....
@Destiny which quote in particular are you talking about?
I meant the quote comparing Flaming Sword to Gungnir. But nvrmnd, I found it.
 
Malox1696 said:
NAh gungunir is not equal to othinus, even birdway created a replica and she did not become a MG
Him being sent in to the wall and surving is just a consequence of his reflection obv no need for upgrade

Him aiding the new 3rd tree is just limited phase manipulation, it can't be translated to AP, what he did is basically messing with the rules so coronzon could not use the loophole to be immortal while having a normal body, his feat is compared to angel fall that messed with rules nothing about AP, the galaxy shaking is just a figure of speech

And agin they are not resistant to aeon based magic, accel reflect as always while coronzon is in an ambiguous state of being human but not at the same time so most spell don't work on her simply cause they can't target both the top of tree and the bottom at the same time

Btw coronzon without avatar is less powerful
But Nephthys explicitly bypassed his Reflection, so her kick had enough power to smash through a wall. That's raw durability.

What? The Sephiroth, Qliphoth, and Clonoth are not Phases. Phases go on TOP of reality, but the trees seem to modify the basic blueprint of reality. Very different mechanisms.

No, the text compared his attack to that of a Holistic esper. if you know how Holism works, galaxy-shaking is not a figure of speech. It's literally the power source behind it.

That's why I said "interference", which is a more accurate term.
 
@Malox

It wasn't a figure of speech. The fact that the attack was being compared to that of a holistic Esper and it specifically said that Accel was using the macro to remove the micro refutes that entirely.

Also it's not limited phrase manipulation. The trees have nothing to do with the phrases.

Neph also passed through his durability and kicked him so hard that it made him go flying into a wall, completely tearing it apart. The kick would have needed some force to do that, no street level punch is ever going to have enough force and power to make someone go flying into a wall and on top of that destroying that said wall. The kick itself should have knocked him out if he was at street level just by the sheer force of it.
 
as explained multiple time in the other thread MG body are magical and follow different rules so unknown vector, neph even bypass accel reflection by grabbing him and tackling him, that's why HP can talk in space and othinus does not get negated even if she is 15 cm and still keeps her norse head symbolism

for the accel feat i will use kamachi analogysm to explain to u what he did: xX_MLG_COROZON_Xx master pc gamer used various exploit to gain 2 skills immune to physical damage and immune to magical damage (they were not supposed to be taken together) so mod master accel, that does not have the full source code of the game, releases a new expansion for the game that does not fix the bug/exploit but adds new rules and interactions making it impossible to use the coronzon exploit, this obvs creates other bug/exploit that will be seen later in the serie (cue: aiwass was scared of the consequence of a new tree and Anna lamented about it)

his was never a real attack and what he did is still holism, he added new rules to the universe to make someone exploit/power unusable (big change for small result), that's why angel fall is referenced cause both messed with the rules
 
Malox1696 said:
NAh gungunir is not equal to othinus, even birdway created a replica and she did not become a MG
Gungnir and Othinus'power are inherently codependent, it will obviously not make you a MG becuase that's not what it's linked to but it is the reason she can even acess her full power and use it to end the world.

"With either of those things missing, it would lose all meaning, but Brunhild Eiktobel was sure of her ability. As a Valkyrie, she could…only she could…wield Gungnir. In Norse mythology, the power of the gods was collected in the weapons and tools they held. Someone who held the spear of Odin, the greatest god, and could draw out all of the spear's power would be able to freely use the great power that made Odin a god."
 
gungunir has 2 function normally:

1 give odin 100% odd of success for reality manipulation

2 trowing the spear "destroying" the phase and the symbol of human power

and as explained by othinus:""You mean…you've become a magic god!?"
"No," denied Othinus. "If you truly possessed the lance and you had truly become the head Norse god, you would have needed to sacrifice an eye like I did. That is unavoidable if you want to become me. Even if you start from 100 different points, you can't travel down the proper route without passing through there. That means you aren't Odin, you aren't Othinus, and you aren't Woden.""
 
@Malox

We're talking about the force of her kick after it bypassed his reflection. We are not talking about her bypassing reflection. Neph got a direct hit on him because she bypassed his reflection, it doesn't matter about her weird body, just the fact she landed a hit directly on him. That direct hit had enough force to it that it made Accel go flying into a wall, completely tearing it apart.

Why are you talking about a game when that has nothing to do with anything? It wasn't even like how you described. It wasn't a figure of speech, the text again debunks that.

Angel fall wasn't reference in the attack itself. It was reference in how adding the tree would affect the world.

"Damn…you!! What are you doing? That isn't the Sephiroth or the Qliphoth. If…if you embed something like this in the world, it will change things even more fundamentally than Angel Fall!!"

The key words here are "If you embed something like this in the world, it will change things even more fundamentally than Angel fall."

even keyer words are "Even more fundamentally"

So either way they weren't using Angel fall to describe the attack but rather using Angel fall as reference point to compare how adding the tree would cause more fundamental changes than even moew than Angel fall did. Angel fall distorted the elements but this is on a whole other level than that.
 
Shaking the galaxy would not change thing more than angel fall, angel fall mixed the elements even more, allowed a self named angel to descend and swapped person A with B on the planet, the elements were already distorted long before angel fall (either by Anna, aleister or mathers)

the fact that the wall was destroyed was thanks to accel barrier
 
@Malox

The shaking of the galaxy wasn't describing the changes, it was describing Accel's attack on Coronzon.

The changes themselves are unknown at this point. All we know, according to Coronzon, is that embedding the tree will change things even more fundamentally than Angel fall. That is all we know,
 
"What he saw before him was not just another realm crossing over from a different phase. It was different from the cosmology of microcosm and macrocosm that had been spoken of for more than two thousand years along with the Sephiroth and Qliphoth.

The Sephiroth was the tree of life which showed how to properly build up a human mind. By working toward a proper understanding, you could purify your soul and climb the ranks one at a time. But if you viewed it incorrectly and mistakenly thought you had already risen to the top, you would lose control of your mind and end up with a negative result."


The Qliphoth was the evil tree which showed how to create and use the negative side of the human mind, such as envy and wrath. It normally manipulated people and caused chaotic destruction, but when used correctly, it could bring positive results such as the art born of anger.

But this was different.

It was neither of those."

"A dull creaking sound followed.

This was nothing as shallow as swinging the wings around or sending out some kind of projectile.

The surface blood flow did not matter.

He had cast off the pain of this world long ago.

His red eyes were looking to a deeper place.

"Master, I have detected Great Demon Coronzon's thoughts. I'm a demon she created, so establishing a connection is easy for me. Should I verbalize it for you?"

"If you want. It doesn't change anything."

He heard some unpleasant static like iron sand was pouring into his ears.

Accelerator's mind had a lot of guests today. Yet another voice cut in.

"Damn…you!! What are you doing? That isn't the Sephiroth or the Qliphoth. If…if you embed something like this in the world, it will change things even more fundamentally than Angel Fall!!"

"I don't know what that means, so I'll get right to the point. Qliphah Puzzle 545 has told me most everything. You're such a pain in the ass because you have a physical body of flesh and blood. So I'll shift that aside and cut it away."

"Are you trying to apply a powerful external pressure to remove my soul from this temporary body!?"

The microcosm of the body and the macrocosm of the planet were linked.

When something happened to one, it affected the other.

That theory was usually applied to use the micro as a way of moving the macro. To put it extremely simply, refining magic power in the body and moving the arms or legs would distort the larger physical world and produce flames or ice from the hand.

But this monster was different.

He used the macro as a way of moving the micro.

By adding a large tree to the cosmos and thoroughly shaking the world out to the ends of the galaxy, he was applying a physical blow to a single person's flesh and blood.

All to force an astral projection initiated by an external third party."

" You only had to apply power from outside the tree to drive the Great Demon from the Abyss like a game of curling. "

By adding the 3rd tree he was basically changed the rules so the spell aleister used could work and finished it as she is no longer the master of the trees
 
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