Official Calculations Discussion Thread

[PresentTrunks]

There's a verse with a somewhat unconventional nuke (it's a thermonuclear weapon which is surrounded by gasses to carry plasma alongside the blast wave) that's capable of destroying a heavily fortified ground target from an altitude of 50 miles/80 km.

The problem is that, even at less than half this altitude, nuclear detonations operate very differently. For instance, the blast efficiency shifts towards thermal energy rather than kinetic. These altitudes really don't permit a blast wave or a defined fireball.

I've done some research on the subject, but I have no idea how to handle this calculation. Using radiated energy isn't very effective because it low-balls the result to a ludicrous degree and doesn't take certain factors into account, and I can't really even apply what little information I've found about 80 km detonations right now.

What's the most effective way I could go about this?

 

[Deadguy999]

it's a thermonuclear weapon which is surrounded by gasses to carry plasma alongside the blast wave

I don’t get what u mean by that. Did the bomb even explode at all?

 

[PresentTrunks]

They do explode, yes.

To be more clear, normal thermonuclear weapons have nuclear fuel surrounding them, which vaporise and fuse. These bombs have that, and they have an added layer of metallised gasses (compressed to stellar pressure levels) to add plasma outside the fireball, meaning A) the percentage of actually useable thermal energy produced by the bomb is higher than normal, like melting buildings far from the hypocentre instead of just flattening them, and B) it could affect the calculation parameters, at least from what I've seen.

 

[Arkenis]

How do I calculate cutting a mountain from a distance with presumably air?

 

[Vzearr]

How do I calculate cutting a mountain from a distance with presumably air?

By calculating the cutting of the mountain.

 

[Arkenis]

By calculating the cutting of the mountain.

I did it. You can check the eval thread if you're interested

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

@Vzearr

 

[Vzearr]

@Vzearr

Tagging people doesn't work if you're not a staff member (sadly).

Not sure of the context, I'll assume its someone crushing it.

Figure out what material the planet mainly consists of, and the subsets of materials. Calculate their compressive strength then multiply the surface area by the compressive strength of the materials.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Figure out what material the planet mainly consists of, and the subsets of materials. Calculate their compressive strength then multiply the surface area by the compressive strength of the materials.

I would assume the composition is the same as Earth’s, there’s nothing to imply otherwise

 

[Deadguy999]

They do explode, yes.

To be more clear, normal thermonuclear weapons have nuclear fuel surrounding them, which vaporise and fuse. These bombs have that, and they have an added layer of metallised gasses (compressed to stellar pressure levels) to add plasma outside the fireball, meaning A) the percentage of actually useable thermal energy produced by the bomb is higher than normal, like melting buildings far from the hypocentre instead of just flattening them, and B) it could affect the calculation parameters, at least from what I've seen.

Sorry I’m not familiar with nuclear stuff

 

[Deadguy999]

Not sure of the context, I'll assume its someone crushing it.

I think it is actually from the shockwave of an explosion. In the video it says a super weapon was activated and the cracks spread from one side of the planet to the other. There is also a fireball on the side.

 

[NIK_FARIS]

Do you guys know the best way to calculate this kind of feat?

 

[Lilybitdun]

What can I use to find the depth of the destruction here?

 

[Arkenis]

What can I use to find the depth of the destruction here?

The links not working. Aerial shots usually can't get depth properly, but you could maybe find the arm's size from how much bigger it is than her regular arms then assume it crushed the ground half of its size.

 

[Lilybitdun]

maybe find the arm's size from how much bigger it is than her regular arms then assume it crushed the ground half of its size.

Yeah I was originally was gonna do that but I was worried it might be an overestimation

here's an imgchest link instead if the imgur embed isn't working

Image Chest

Post with 1 views.

imgchest.com

 

[Arkenis]

It looks like it's been crushed enough a shadow is present so I'd say it's fine.

 

[Tahoy49574]

When making a calculation blog, how do you divide it in sections ? As in, parts of it that can be directly linked to

 

[Arkenis]

When making a calculation blog, how do you divide it in sections ? As in, parts of it that can be directly linked to

Put the sections in ==Example==

And then it'll appear in contents and in your browsers search bar you can see what's being linked.

 

[Monstermadman]

How would one distinguish Fragmentation and Violent Fragmentation? The phrasing leaves a lot to the interpretation of the scaler (Like "Fairly large" and "Small but still distinguishable", because one person may have a different vision/interpretation than another.). Apologies if this is a dumb question lol but I am working on a calc and it would be nice to know.

Thank you in advance and here is an early Happy Holidays from me!

 

[ElJoaki5]

How would one distinguish Fragmentation and Violent Fragmentation? The phrasing leaves a lot to the interpretation of the scaler (Like "Fairly large" and "Small but still distinguishable", because one person may have a different vision/interpretation than another.). Apologies if this is a dumb question lol but I am working on a calc and it would be nice to know.

Thank you in advance and here is an early Happy Holidays from me!

Violent fragmentation is about something you can fit in your palm

 

[Monstermadman]

Violent fragmentation is about something you can fit in your palm

Thanks!

And uh, how would I create a calc page?

 

[ElJoaki5]

Thanks!

And uh, how would I create a calc page?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Monstermadman

 

[Rutæhh]

how would u find the height of this floating city? I want to find it volume and mass for a GPE calculation

 

[Arkenis]

how would u find the height of this floating city? I want to find it volume and mass for a GPE calculation

Any other shots? With this maybe low balling it's 2km high going off where the clouds are.

 

[YmTheSuper]

how would u find the height of this floating city? I want to find it volume and mass for a GPE calculation

Are you looking for the height of the ruins themselves or for how high they are above ground? If you are looking for the height of the ruins themselves i think your best shot is using the airship since it can enter through the hole in the ruins. (There is also this shot with a cannon from the ruins in the foreground and the airship in the background but idk how you would use it.)

If you are looking for its height above the ground then you can use the fact that it's above the clouds as shown in the scan above. (Also shown for the airship here)

 

[Rutæhh]

Any other shots? With this maybe low balling it's 2km high going off where the clouds are.

heres are video of it

Are you looking for the height of the ruins themselves or for how high they are above ground?

the ruins themselves.

If you are looking for the height of the ruins themselves i think your best shot is using the airship since it can enter through the hole in the ruins. (There is also this shot with a cannon from the ruins in the foreground and the airship in the background but idk how you would use it.)

I think going with the suggestion Arkenis made would be best for me as Im still new to calculations. Also the sizes seem to be inconsistent to me at least since the canons are massive yet in the overworld are small as hell

If you are looking for its height above the ground then you can use the fact that it's above the clouds as shown in the scan above. (Also shown for the airship here)

those are seem to be cirrus to me since they are see through them. think 1500m and 8000m would be good ranges

 

[PresentTrunks]

I want to calculate the size of this shockwave compared to the planet. I need to account for map projection (curvature would only add a few km, so that's really of minor relevance).

Planet curvature and similar angle size-based calculations just don't work here. They're either wildly exaggerated (thousands of km where they should be hundreds), or are blatantly wrong when accounting for distance (like 5,000 km underneath the Earth's surface when they should be thousands of km above).

Every other method and mixed methods I've looked into don't work.

Can anyone help?

 

[YmTheSuper]

I think going with the suggestion Arkenis made would be best for me as Im still new to calculations. Also the sizes seem to be inconsistent to me at least since the canons are massive yet in the overworld are small as hell

If this was the regular overworld map I would agree that sizes are very inconsistent since they are not to scale and have many contradictions, but considering this is a new layer on the map where we're focusing directly on the ruins and directly interacting with them (such as the airship going inside of the ruins and attacking the cannons) I'd say it's a different case.

In this case in particular the inconsistencies are not that big since the battle background (Which I would consider the most detailed and most to scale portrayal) and the outside view both show that the airship is around the size/slightly bigger than the cannon.

Let's do some simple pixel scaling.

Spoiler: Airship size

Scan 1
Bartz shoulder width: 18px=41.1cm (Average male shoulder width)
The part of the floor: 64px=146.13cm
Scan 2 (Used the ship from the advance remaster since I didn't find a picture from pixel remaster with the airship fully available but they are essentially the same)
The part of the floor: 16px=164.13cm
Airship length: 441px=4523.83cm=45.2383m
This would more and less line-up with historic ships (The Queen Anne's Revenge as an example which is 31.4m long)

While if we assume the 2km height for the ruins them we have.
Scan
Ruins height: 920px=2000m
Cannon width: 72px=156.5m
With the ship being more or less around the same size as the airship which would make it around the same size as the largest superyachts and some decently sized cargo ships which would make less sense than the size in the first calc imo.

Also I do think that Arkenis was talking about a 2km height relative to the ground and not the height of the ruins themselves, but you should ask him directly as I might be wrong.

But yeah I do think that it's unfortunate that straightforward calcs for the first 6 final fantasy games are hard to make due to the nature of the game.

those are seem to be cirrus to me since they are see through them. think 1500m and 8000m would be good ranges

Yeah this seems fine, you can make two ends although the 1500m will probably end up being the one accepted since it's the average height.

 

[Arkenis]

I want to calculate the size of this shockwave compared to the planet. I need to account for map projection (curvature would only add a few km, so that's really of minor relevance).

Planet curvature and similar angle size-based calculations just don't work here. They're either wildly exaggerated (thousands of km where they should be hundreds), or are blatantly wrong when accounting for distance (like 5,000 km underneath the Earth's surface when they should be thousands of km above).

Every other method and mixed methods I've looked into don't work.

Can anyone help?

If that's an aurora happening, you can measure the shockwave from it. Those spaceships above should be okay to measure it off of.

 

[Rutæhh]

If this was the regular overworld map I would agree that sizes are very inconsistent since they are not to scale and have many contradictions, but considering this is a new layer on the map where we're focusing directly on the ruins and directly interacting with them (such as the airship going inside of the ruins and attacking the cannons) I'd say it's a different case.

In this case in particular the inconsistencies are not that big since the battle background (Which I would consider the most detailed and most to scale portrayal) and the outside view both show that the airship is around the size/slightly bigger than the cannon.

Let's do some simple pixel scaling.

Spoiler: Airship size

Scan 1
Bartz shoulder width: 18px=41.1cm (Average male shoulder width)
The part of the floor: 64px=146.13cm
Scan 2 (Used the ship from the advance remaster since I didn't find a picture from pixel remaster with the airship fully available but they are essentially the same)
The part of the floor: 16px=164.13cm
Airship length: 441px=4523.83cm=45.2383m
This would more and less line-up with historic ships (The Queen Anne's Revenge as an example which is 31.4m long)

While if we assume the 2km height for the ruins them we have.
Scan
Ruins height: 920px=2000m
Cannon width: 72px=156.5m
With the ship being more or less around the same size as the airship which would make it around the same size as the largest superyachts and some decently sized cargo ships which would make less sense than the size in the first calc imo.

I see that make sense. 2km may be too big then.

May I use your ur pixel scaling? I did mine and it came out wrong since im not very good at it.

For the width of the ship I would just do something like this right? I measured from the tip of the ruins nose to the back

Also I do think that Arkenis was talking about a 2km height relative to the ground and not the height of the ruins themselves, but you should ask him directly as I might be wrong

I made a calc based off what Arkenis said so I'll change it if they reply.

.

did u mean 2km off the floor or the actual height of the thing?

.But yeah I do think that it's unfortunate that straightforward calcs for the first 6 final fantasy games are hard to make due to the nature of the game.

facts

Yeah this seems fine, you can make two ends although the 1500m will probably end up being the one accepted since it's the average height.

apologies i used the wrong values its "4572m to 9144m, 6858m on average"

So i can do low, middle and high ends.

 

[Arkenis]

did u mean 2km off the floor or the actual height of the thing?

off the floor

 

[YmTheSuper]

May I use your ur pixel scaling? I did mine and it came out wrong since im not very good at it.

Yes of course, feel free to use it.

For the width of the ship I would just do something like this right? I measured from the tip of the ruins nose to the back

Not sure if this is what you mean but if you are talking about calculating the width of the ruins then that should work. (Although you should measure the volumes main part and the nose separately and then add them up due to the shape of the ruins)

As for the height of the ruins i think this way should actually work better than my previous pixel scale since the nose of the ruins is parallel to the ground and should only contribute to the width (I was a bit confused by the perspective before).

Also when calculating the volume don't forget to account for hollowness.

 

[Rutæhh]

Yes of course, feel free to use it.

thanks

Also when calculating the volume don't forget to account for hollowness.

will do so

 

[GunshyFever]

Need some opinions here if you could spear the time, get it? because I'm so funny

Chainsaw Man: Spear me a timeframe

In the most recent chapter of Chainsaw Man (Chapter 224), Yoru transmutes the American flag on the Moon into a spear and uses America's claim to the Moon as a homing mechanism. Shortly after, the Moon is shown slowly taking aim before accelerating toward its target, Denji. The spear is...

vsbattles.com

 

[PresentTrunks]

If that's an aurora happening, you can measure the shockwave from it.

Great idea.

Those spaceships above should be okay to measure it off of.

Should have clarified, that is one of the methods I'm using. However, it gets a result much lower than what'd be realistic, so I'm just regulating it to one method and looking for planet-scaling as another. Plus, I can't tell exactly what type of ship it is (it's likely a Cruiser or Battlecruiser, which are typically 5km or longer).

 

[Arkenis]

Great idea.

Should have clarified, that is one of the methods I'm using. However, it gets a result much lower than what'd be realistic, so I'm just regulating it to one method and looking for planet-scaling as another. Plus, I can't tell exactly what type of ship it is (it's likely a Cruiser or Battlecruiser, which are typically 5km or longer).

Pixel scaling is the most accurate so unless you're getting something really low like less than 10km, the size shouldn't be unrealistic. Is the ship just smallerthan 100m?

 

[Monstermadman]

How would I calculate the energy of a gas fire? And if possible how would I apply that to power scaling a character?

 

[MujRocks]

This may be a stupid question, but do when calculating AP based on destructive capacity of the crust (causing mountain ranges to collapse), do we account for both geometric spreading and material absorption when it comes to energy loss from the energy source?

Im going to guess not because collapsing a mountain range even just 1500km away can reach planetary tier, but then that would not make sense in reality... you could say im quite confused.

 

[Udlmaster]

Anyone know the calcs for the Oklahoma Dustbowl incident?

 

[Tahoy49574]

Can this be properly calculated or is the arm cannon far too removed from any weapon to be valid ?