One Piece Discussion Thread Fourteen Marineford

[AstralKing7]

Worlds strongest swordsman =/= Most powerful character who uses a sword. Odens reputation would be far lesser than Rayleigh, Shiki and WB aren't swordsman. Doubt Roger is a traditional swordsman either

Traditional??

Everyone in OP who are considered swordsman don't have the same style of swordplay. I don't think we need to use traditional style when considering what makes u a swordsman

 

[PsychoWarper]

Right now we cant really call Roger the strongest swordsman cause we've seen nothing about how he fights afaik.

We've at least seen Rayleigh fight, and have some swordsmen feats from Oden.

 

[LordWhis]

He charged the Rocks crew with a sword in hand. I don't remember if we see him swinging it or clashing with someone.

 

[VioIeLFC]

I don't mean "style", I mean people who's main source of power is their swordsmanship. Rayleigh is obviously a better swordsman than someone like Whitebeard who's main source of power is his devil fruit. Again, the worlds strongest swordsman isn't the most powerful character who uses a sword

 

[CinCameron20]

I'm pretty certain someone can use a sword as a supplement for their fighting style, but they wont label themselves as a swordsman. Roger may use a cutlass, but 1) He's not confirmed to be a proclaimed swordsman and 2) he may fight in a totally unorthodox manner. He certainly didn't use a blade to injure that marine officer that came for him.

Mihawk is dedicated, so he even pulls out inferior blades to deal with novice opponents, like he did vs Zoro.

 

[The_Calaca]

Forgot about this.

@Whis if you really think that not only a movie but a character's background written by Oda himself leaves room for Shiki's fruit not being canon, I cannot take you seriously.

Implying Oda created Shiki and his fruit to not being related at all when the evidence shows pretty much the opposite of what you suggest. If Oda retcons that, which is unlikely, then so be it. But Shiki's fruit is canon and so is his state as a DF user.

There are implications of this being true.

• Devil Fruit users need a lot of practice to control, dominate and masterize their powers. Shiki would need to change his whole fighting style well past his prime is absurd. He'd have to adapt to something he might not be confortable with.

• He escaped from Impel Down and no implications of him stealing a ship to achieve it was made. How would he escape? Well, he cut his legs off and used his swords as prosthetic legs, and he's seen using them to fly with his DF powers.

 

[LordWhis]

I'm just saying that he was never shown flying or using his levitating powers in chapter 0.

 

[Chibi14]

Dude Whitebeard vs Roger looks insane!!!

 

[LordWhis]

Is the chapter out yet ? Or is it spoilers ?

 

[The_Calaca]

Spoilers, most likely.

 

[Ryuga21]

Don't get so excited, Oda probably will cut the entire fight.

 

[The_Calaca]

 

[Ryuga21]

Well, we have this :v


just a clash, I was waiting Oden vs Roger :v

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

That looks dope!

But I have a question, and I know the answer seems obvious so mind my stupidity, but the ap of Gear stacking would simply be the combination of both Gear's ap right?

 

[The_Calaca]

Most likely. There's no clear number on how much the Gears amplify Luffy's power so it's unquantifiable.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

I know I'm most likely wrong, but wouldn't it simply just the combination of the ap's of both Gear's? So for Post-Timeskip Luffy it would be 1 Gigaton for Gear 2nd (the higher end) and 1.8 Gigatons for Gear 3rd (I think that's Gear 3rd's ap, right?), which would equal 2.8 Gigatons. I'm probably wrong though and I'm not trying to apply this to Luffy's page, this is just simple food for thought. Also I wasn't thinking about Gear 4th since he has never used it with his Gear stacking (outside of Film Gold I think).

 

[AstralKing7]

So Rodger is using his sword instead of haki fist..okay then. He uses his sword

 

[The_Calaca]

There's no way of knowing. It could be additive, multiplicative or exponential.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

True, I wish that Oda could one day simply give us statements about the power of Gear 2nd and 3rd.

Damn, I sometimes wish that most forms in anime can have a stated power increase. It's not that hard to simply state that a form multiplies one's power, just look at NNT and Katekyo Hitman Reborn.

 

[Eminiteable]

Honestly I can understand speculation if Roger or shanks are swordsmen thus whatever. But tbh I feel like if we go the entire series and the only thing we see of Roger and Shanks is them clashing with people using a sword then people will still come out and say "nah he's not a swordsmen, he's got other ways of fighting".

 

[AstralKing7]

People are just in denial

 

[Ovrhide]

so why do people care if they are swords man? its not like people like roger will somehow get downgraded to be below mihawks and shit.

 

[Chibi14]

Whitebeard and Roger pulling out a Might guy feat just using casually CoA hits in combo with their CoC, even though the swords didn´t even get contact to each other, they distortion the space/time himself and created a big shockwave around the island which make big tsunamis. In the fact that Whitebeard didn´t even use his Gura power says a lot how strong was base Roger and Base Whitebeard.

 

[The_Calaca]

Thank you. You hyped me.

 

[AstralKing7]

so why do people care if they are swords man? its not like people like roger will somehow get downgraded to be below mihawks and shit.

No it's the other way around for people like Mohawks and Shanks

 

[LordWhis]

so why do people care if they are swords man? its not like people like roger will somehow get downgraded to be below mihawks and shit.

Mihawk became WSS long after Roger was dead so I fail to see how it's relevant.

 

[PsychoWarper]

I could see Shanks being considered a true swordsmen prior to Losing his arm, theres stuff that hint to the possibility but nothing concrete to my knowledge like his legendary battles with Mihawk but for both him and Roger its speculation (Though there is more evidence supporting Shanks).

 

[Chibi14]

Also we can see Bullet in the current chapter even though it didn´t confirmed it:

[[1]]

One question now, since Bullet come up in the manga aswell, can we count the movie as canon? I mean fairy tail first movie who wasn´t canon was use here as upgrade aswell because one character of the movie appear at the manga even though we don´t know his backstory. Would this be argument to use Bullet as canon aswell and use the movie feats as canon to use calcs?

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

The character would be canon, but not the movie since there is no way that the events of the movie can happen without contradicting the current story.

 

[AstralKing7]

Bullet is full canon. The movie is not because of too many contradictions concerning its time of place.

 

[The_Calaca]

^This

 

[Eminiteable]

Lmao kaido let kid out of his cage to enjoy the pirate festival.

 

[Js250476]

This isn't different from Film Z or Gold so yeah Stampede ain't canon. Also Killer conveniently isn't deranged anymore

 

[Chibi14]

The character would be canon, but not the movie since there is no way that the events of the movie can happen without contradicting the current story.

Okay but why then the feat of the non canon movie was accept for fairy tail to push their top tier to multi continent lvl? I try to understand the reason why they accept for the same reason a non canon movie feat while Bullet as canon character feats from non canon doesn´t get accept?

 

[The_Calaca]

Because their movie was hinted in the manga and its events don't contradict the manga.

Unlike with OP's films.

 

[Chibi14]

Because their movie was hinted in the manga and its events don't contradict the manga.
Unlike with OP's films.

The phoenix movie wasn´t hinted in the manga? I think you mean Dragon Cry also the story in the phoenix movie has contradict to the manga. It's supposed to have happened after the GMG, since Fairy Tail is back in their old building yet all the characters have a distinct post-timeskip design, but Elfman looks exactly like he did before he got all that extra muscle mass. Likely because Mashima decided to change the design after the old one was finalized in the movie.

Also a good comment about the event :


"

While it's not made entirely clear, I believe that, through process of elimination, we can sort it out.

Firstly, it is seen that Jet and Droy have their X791 appearances. (Even though the whole 'X791' thing is a mistake and it should really be 'X792', but I digress.) This indicates that it has to be set after the Tenroe Island arc. Fairy Tail also has their proper guild hall, not the old farm they operated out of for Key Of The Starry Heavens and the first part of Grand Magic Games, so it has to be after the GMG.

However, it thematically cannot be, as others have said, directly after the GMG. Why? It's simple.

Fairy Tail isn't rich enough.

At the end of the GMG, Fairy Tail won 30,000,000 jewels in prize money. So where is it? Why wasn't it used for anything during the events of Phoenix Priestess when it could have helped so much? Sure, it could be argued that most of it was spent to buy back the guild hall . . . except they didn't. The administration of Magnolia gave them back the hall for free as a 'welcome home' present of sorts.

But, of course, we all know about the bills for damages Fairy Tail often incurs, so it's totally reasonable that the thirty million was whittled away in paying all those bills. But that must have taken time; even Fairy Tail can't deal so much damage that they'd incur fines that high in a matter of days. It would have taken them at least a couple of months.

And then there's Flare Corona. The Sun Village arc is kicked off by her surprise visit to the guild hall. It's reasonable to guess that after her actions during the Games, Raven Tail would have booted her out immediately. And I hardly think she would have waited around long before dropping in, meaning that it couldn't have been more than a week between the end of GMG and Flare's appearance. And the Sun Village arc happens straight afterwards . . . during the months it must have taken for Fairy Tail to burn their $30,000,000.

But Phoenix Priestess can't have happened after the Tartaros arc, because Fairy Tail was disbanded. And at the time of writing this answer, Fairy Tail has norm yet been seen reformed in the anime, so it can't be set then since, of course, Phoenix Priestess has already been aired.

Therefore, the only possible conclusion that can be drawn is that Phoenix Priestess is set between the Sun Village arc and the Tartaros arc."

 

[AstralKing7]

If this is all true please bring it up. Or just try to get the movie accepted as canon

 

[The_Calaca]

That's nice but it doesn't belong here.

Go to my wall.

 

[LordWhis]

I could see Shanks being considered a true swordsmen prior to Losing his arm, theres stuff that hint to the possibility but nothing concrete to my knowledge like his legendary battles with Mihawk but for both him and Roger its speculation (Though there is more evidence supporting Shanks).

Shanks was wearing Zoro style clothes and had 2 katanas in one of the flashbacks.

 

[AstralKing7]

Imso ready for this chapter like it's going to be so lit seeing a clash between healthy prime WB and Gol Rodger