One Piece Zanpa Recalc

[Arc7Kuroi]

Intro
So, I made a recalc of Shiki's Zanpa using the water scaling to Shiki's size here, as opposed to the size of his islands calculated from the Mammoth walking statement. This thread is to discuss, the validity of the calcs, or anything else that pertains to more accurately calculating this feat. I'll explain my issues with the original calc below.

Issues
The original calc predicates itself on the island size, which is obtained from this girl saying it'd take half a day to cross the tundra on mammoth back. It assumes a couple of things: 1) the Mammoth walks in a straight line and 2) the Mammoth walks nonstop all 12 hours.

The mammoth is crossing a tundra/wintery zone, there's no reason to assume it'd be traversing in a straight line. Assuming such does nothing but inflate the size. Realistically the mammoth would be traversing some well traveled path that twists and turns as is the case with many natural paths. Even paved roads, designed to transport people from point A to B aren't perfectly straight lines, they wind, twist, and turn. As such, I believe that invalidates the tundra width alone, but there's more.

Many animals cannot/do not travel for such long periods (like 12 hours) non-stop usually. Even horses, known for being able to work themselves to death, on average can only walk for 8 hours before they have to rest for the night. So, a creature like a mammoth that has to lug around a lot more mass would have an even harder time than the horse. Likely the mammoth would be taking rest breaks, drink breaks, etc. It also seems uncharacteristically cruel for the strawhats to force an animal that's helping them to walk 12 hours without allowing it to rest at all. Given that is far more probable that the mammoth would be resting intermittently, I believe this invalidates the usage of the full timeframe.

For those two primary reasons, I believe Shiki's island size is far over-estimated and vastly inflates the value of Shiki's Zanpa. Which I believe is inherent when you compare the size of the water to Shiki vs to the highballed island size. When compared to Shiki's size the feat becomes like a trillion times weaker. I'm not going to argue my recalc is exactly objective, but I do believe it goes to show that the highballed size of the island is vastly inconsistent with the Zanpa feat itself.

Conclusion
The original Zanpa calc should be removed based on the island size it predicates itself on being vastly over-estimated. Whether or not it's replaced/my recalc is optimal is more secondary concern, and I'm open to seeing other methods for the feat. But again, I disagree with the current mammoth distance calc method. I'll list the different ends we concluded with here to be voted upon. Liger made an end as well.

Shiki's base method (6-C):
Character size method (8-A):
Shiki's ship method (7-B): Damage
30% method (High 6-C+):
Mountain method (Low 7-B):
None:
Original method (High 6-B):

 

[Kachon123]

Following

 

[ElajRuengies]

I guess this is how I find out that the Exaton Calcs got removed- feeling pretty vindicated right now ngl- odd that the top tiers are all still High 6-A although I guess unlocking all the profiles takes a bit

 

[Stryker861]

leaning towards agreeing

 

[Damage3245]

odd that the top tiers are all still High 6-A although I guess unlocking all the profiles takes a bit

That'll be handled in an upcoming thread.

 

[Kachon123]

Working on a different method. This is an incredibly stupid lowball.

 

[Eseseso]

That'll be handled in an upcoming thread.

Yeah I'm looking forward to that.

As for the CRT, neutral on the calc itself but the reason for nerfing does seem to make some sense

 

[KingTempest]

If people just watched the movie then things would be so much clearer

Issues
The original calc predicates itself on the island size, which is obtained from this girl saying it'd take half a day to cross the tundra on mammoth back. It assumes a couple of things: 1) the Mammoth walks in a straight line and 2) the Mammoth walks nonstop all 12 hours.

The mammoth is crossing a tundra/wintery zone, there's no reason to assume it'd be traversing in a straight line. Assuming such does nothing but inflate the size. Realistically the mammoth would be traversing some well traveled path that twists and turns as is the case with many natural paths. Even paved roads, designed to transport people from point A to B aren't perfectly straight lines, they wind, twist, and turn. As such, I believe that invalidates the tundra width alone

There is none

The path that Xiao, the girl takes, as she says that "it only takes half a day" is her moving in a straight line.

Every path we see is people moving in a straight line. There are no unique paths, no special routes, nothing. It's a ****** mountain rangeeverything is movement in a straight line.

Many animals cannot/do not travel for such long periods (like 12 hours) non-stop usually. Even horses, known for being able to work themselves to death, on average can only walk for 8 hours before they have to rest for the night.

In Strong World, all the animals eat from the widespread plant known as IQ, which increases the size of animals and allowing them to evolve and adapt to their environments, letting tiny ass ants increased to the height of up to Brook's ankle eat a large ass shark in less than a second, letting Luffy get pressured by ******* praying mantises that can chop Octopus limbs to small cylinders and break rock platforms, and bears who can swing that same mantis through a giant fountain

These are not the average animals. They should not, would not, could not, and logically do not follow the laws of the average animal.

So, a creature like a mammoth that has to lug around a lot more mass would have an even harder time than the horse.

"A mammoth"
You mean the mammoth that held people probably a 20th of its weight along with all the snow that's piled on top of it, and still had enough energy to run when needed?

Likely the mammoth would be taking rest breaks, drink breaks, etc.

That's humorous.
They can't rest because they'd become victims of the other dangerous animals on the island.
There is nothing to drink, they were stranded, with all of their stuff to drink being in different parts of the damn archipelago.

It also seems uncharacteristically cruel for the strawhats to force an animal that's helping them to walk 12 hours without allowing it to rest at all.

"The strawhats"
It's Zoro and Chopper, who has been moving for a few days on this mammoth, the same mammoth that's big as shit. and covers drastically more distance than the average mammoth. It also has 6 legs. What mammoth do you know with six legs.

And that isn't what happened.

They were in the Winter Zone for a week.
They couldn't find their way out because Zoro led them through bullshit for a week.
Xiao came and heard that they were there for a while, and she said that it only takes half a day to get out, pointing to the exit being right next to them.

We see her path, she's moving in a straight line. Everybody in the winter zone moves in a straight line. Saying that there's a specific route when the entire place is just covered in snow and continuously being piled on by snow, with everybody moving straight ahead, not looking for a specific route to get to a specific point but just to escape the area, it makes no damn sense for them to take a mysterious route or some shit.

The schist with Zoro's shit direction that he can never move in a straight damn line, while all the other directions taken that invalidate his shit direction is just "move in a straight line".
Just like Stampede when they told him to come to the sunny that was running distance from him, he stared it down, then went straight and curved.

The possible long route would be covered by the "stranded for a week", while the short, reasonable, common sense distance would be covered by "half a day".

Given that is far more probable that the mammoth would be resting intermittently, I believe this invalidates the usage of the full timeframe.

I don't.

I'm not going to argue my recalc is exactly objective, but I do believe it goes to show that the highballed size of the island is vastly inconsistent with the Zanpa feat itself.

Conclusion
The original Zanpa calc should be removed based on the island size it predicates itself on being vastly over-estimated. Whether or not it's replaced/my recalc is optimal is more secondary concern

Shiki's ship alone is almost the size of a mountain, and it's dwarved by the tinier islands, much less a portion of the biggest one like the one your calc claims to be 200m, and the shit can sit in that portion freely.

If my calc is bad, then it's bad.
Please don't use this recalc.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Ima read allat soon I appreciate the participation tho KT

 

[KingTempest]

If people just watched the movie then things would be so much clearer

There is none

The path that Xiao, the girl takes, as she says that "it only takes half a day" is her moving in a straight line.

Every path we see is people moving in a straight line. There are no unique paths, no special routes, nothing. It's a ****** mountain rangeeverything is movement in a straight line.

In Strong World, all the animals eat from the widespread plant known as IQ, which increases the size of animals and allowing them to evolve and adapt to their environments, letting tiny ass ants increased to the height of up to Brook's ankle eat a large ass shark in less than a second, letting Luffy get pressured by ******* praying mantises that can chop Octopus limbs to small cylinders and break rock platforms, and bears who can swing that same mantis through a giant fountain

These are not the average animals. They should not, would not, could not, and logically do not follow the laws of the average animal.

"A mammoth"
You mean the mammoth that held people probably a 20th of its weight along with all the snow that's piled on top of it, and still had enough energy to run when needed?

That's humorous.
They can't rest because they'd become victims of the other dangerous animals on the island.
There is nothing to drink, they were stranded, with all of their stuff to drink being in different parts of the damn archipelago.

"The strawhats"
It's Zoro and Chopper, who has been moving for a few days on this mammoth, the same mammoth that's big as shit. and covers drastically more distance than the average mammoth. It also has 6 legs. What mammoth do you know with six legs.

And that isn't what happened.

They were in the Winter Zone for a week.
They couldn't find their way out because Zoro led them through bullshit for a week.
Xiao came and heard that they were there for a while, and she said that it only takes half a day to get out, pointing to the exit being right next to them.

We see her path, she's moving in a straight line. Everybody in the winter zone moves in a straight line. Saying that there's a specific route when the entire place is just covered in snow and continuously being piled on by snow, with everybody moving straight ahead, not looking for a specific route to get to a specific point but just to escape the area, it makes no damn sense for them to take a mysterious route or some shit.

The schist with Zoro's shit direction that he can never move in a straight damn line, while all the other directions taken that invalidate his shit direction is just "move in a straight line".
Just like Stampede when they told him to come to the sunny that was running distance from him, he stared it down, then went straight and curved.

The possible long route would be covered by the "stranded for a week", while the short, reasonable, common sense distance would be covered by "half a day".

I don't.

Shiki's ship alone is almost the size of a mountain, and it's dwarved by the tinier islands, much less a portion of the biggest one like the one your calc claims to be 200m, and the shit can sit in that portion freely.

If my calc is bad, then it's bad.
Please don't use this recalc.

Credits to Kachon for some scans

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Seeing your post, I can concede on my contention with the mammoth taking breaks, considering it's more like a super, genetically enhanced mammoth.

However, I think I remain in opposition of the mammoth traversing a straight flat line. The image you sent of the foot prints in a straight line are Chopper's and Officer Zolo's, which don't really hold any inherent barring on the path the mammoth took. But even if the mammoth traveled in only a straight line, in the images you sent, there are some pretty large hills. Hills large enough to make the trees on them look very small. That would make the assumption that the mammoth traversed a straight flat line inaccurate nonetheless.

That being said, I'm curious to pursue the method scaling the Sunny to the islands. Is there any other shot that can be used in conjunction with Shiki's docked ship to get the island size?

 

[Kachon123]

But even if the mammoth traveled in only a straight line, in the images you sent, there are some pretty large hills. Hills large enough to make the trees on them look very small. That would make the assumption that the mammoth traversed a straight flat line inaccurate nonetheless.

KT’s point wasn’t that the mammoth was moving in a flat straight line, just that it was moving in a directional straight line in contrast to what you said - that the path was likely winding.

Your issue about the hilly snowy portion of Merville confuses me. We see several times that the majority of the snowy area is flat. Look at the scans that KT sent. The hilly area that you’re seeing is only present at the end of the path from point A to point B, as the village that they were heading towards was at a lower elevation.

The majority of the 12 hour travel period would have been the mammoth walking of relatively flat ground, and the slower downhill portion of the travel period is covered by the lowball 2 m/s speed used, considering we’re talking about a genetically enhanced mammoth.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I see a lot of shots not showing anywhere near the entire grounds being used to justify it being almost all flat ground. I still disagree it inherently traveled only straight as well, it's not like we are shown the entire trip. There doesn't appear to be strong reasoning outside we see it traverse a couple short distances in a straight line.

 

[Eseseso]

Credits to Kachon for some scans

Common Kachon W.

 

[Kachon123]

I see a lot of shots not showing anywhere near the entire grounds being used to justify it being almost all flat ground. I still disagree it inherently traveled only straight as well, it's not like we are shown the entire trip. There doesn't appear to be strong reasoning outside we see it traverse a couple short distances in a straight line.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Compared to the size KT's calc makes the tundra, the size plots you show are comparatively tiny. Not to mention there are still very hilly parts in the images you sent.

 

[Kachon123]

Compared to the size KT's calc makes the tundra, the size plots you show are comparatively tiny. Not to mention there are still very hilly parts in the images you sent.

Those are mountains, not hills Arc.

 

[Kachon123]

None of the scans I sent show the entire tundra, so I’m confused what you mean by them looking “comparatively tiny.”

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

None of the scans I sent show the entire tundra, so I’m confused what you mean by them looking “comparatively tiny.”

I, and anyone else, can still get a vague sense of scale from the perspectives shown.

 

[Kachon123]

I, and anyone else, can still get a vague sense of scale from the perspectives shown.

In all the scans outside of the ones positioned At the edge of the island showing the dock, you can not see the end of the island.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

In all the scans outside of the ones positioned At the edge of the island showing the dock, you can not see the end of the island.

Yes, my point is the scans you sent don't represent the entire tundra and can be misleading

 

[Kachon123]

Yes, my point is the scans you sent don't represent the entire tundra and can be misleading

Those scans are from different points in the island, so it’s not misleading.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Showing several shots of the town near civilization, nowhere near the majority of the tundra, plus a view shots a small plots of land is not representative of the entire biome. So yes, they are misleading.

 

[Kachon123]

Showing several shots of the town near civilization,

What are you talking about? There’s no town in any scan I sent.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

5th scan, Shiki’s base it looks like town

 

[Kachon123]

5th scan, Shiki’s base it looks like town

That’s his castle. A single scan of his castle isn’t “several shots,” and it certainly isn’t misleading either as I’m showing you all parts of the island to show that it’s mostly flat.

 

[SnookB]

None of the shots Kachon sent give a proper sense of scale at winter zone's size. It could be the exact size it's shown biggest in the scans, or it could be five times bigger than the 5th shot on that gallery. I do agree that if it's shown consistently flat with the mountains only being the edges of the island/zone, then we shouldn't assume there's a random mountain plopped in the way conveniently in the mammoth's path that just so happened to be left out narratively and not addressed as "Oh there's hills/mountains that the mammoth can walk around to get there faster".

But honestly idk why you're going through all these assumptions when we have a specific timeframe a specific animal can cross without a single mention of rest, breaks or shortcuts from anybody. It's nuts they'd want to take breaks anyway when they're in a hurry too.
The fact that the mammoth calc uses its average distance whereas this one's clearly some sort of monster is enough of a lowball as is. All the extra 'what ifs' are massively forced.
Could be just me but everything else just seems like picking at oddly specific straws and finding made up holes that the movie itself doesn't specify. I'm sure if there were mountains/hills that slowed its straight path track we would've gotten to hear about it.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

None of the shots Kachon sent give a proper sense of scale at winter zone's size. It could be the exact size it's shown biggest in the scans, or it could be five times bigger than the 5th shot on that gallery. I do agree that if it's shown consistently flat with the mountains only being the edges of the island/zone, then we shouldn't assume there's a random mountain plopped in the way conveniently in the mammoth's path that just so happened to be left out narratively and not addressed as "Oh there's hills/mountains that the mammoth can walk around to get there faster".

But honestly idk why you're going through all these assumptions when we have a specific timeframe a specific animal can cross without a single mention of rest, breaks or shortcuts from anybody. It's nuts they'd want to take breaks anyway when they're in a hurry too.
The fact that the mammoth calc uses its average distance whereas this one's clearly some sort of monster is enough of a lowball as is. All the extra 'what ifs' are massively forced.
Could be just me but everything else just seems like picking at oddly specific straws and finding made up holes that the movie itself doesn't specify. I'm sure if there were mountains/hills that slowed its straight path track we would've gotten to hear about it.

It’s not shown consistently flat tho. When we see the gang on the mammoth walking, we see it traversing these expansive hilly parts of tundra. Furthermore, there isn’t any concrete evidence to claim they move in a straight line for 12 hours. Given how many monsters are in the zone it’s very possible they took dips and turns to evade monster dens, etc. My point is that the assumption that they traveled in a flat straight line is inherently the highest end interpretation you can give, and it simply is objectively incorrect when we blatantly see the mammoth traverse not flat ground.

Furthermore, the size of the water compared to the characters is abysmally smaller than using the absolute high end size for the tundra. We aren’t doing an “average mammoth distance” with KT’s calc, it’s using the highest possible interpretation for the path it travels (a nonstop flat straight line), the only thing that might be lowballed is the travel speed of the mammoth, but that’s debatable.

 

[Damage3245]

I do think you're making an accurate point that the current calc being used is a very high end interpretation.

Also, it uses more steps and assumptions involved than the more direct size comparison that you've done for calcing the feat.

So I'm currently against the current calc being used and leaning in favor of your version.

 

[Kachon123]

Now that I think about it, the girl saying that it takes 12 hours to cross the winter zone was not her saying that it would take 12 hours for them to leave the winter zone, but for people to cross it in general, meaning that the 2 mph mammoth speed is slightly in accurate and should be replaced with a human’s walking speed instead.

 

[KingTempest]

I do think you're making an accurate point that the current calc being used is a very high end interpretation.

Also, it uses more steps and assumptions involved than the more direct size comparison that you've done for calcing the feat.

So I'm currently against the current calc being used and leaning in favor of your version.

Did you not read where I said his version logically does not make sense?

 

[Damage3245]

Did you not read where I said his version logically does not make sense?

I'm not saying his version is perfect, I'm just saying that I'm leaning more in favor of that one than the current one.

If we have to use neither then fair enough, but Arc7's uses the most direct method.

 

[KingTempest]

I'm saying that his is flat out wrong and it can't be used because it contradicts the lowest reasonable sizes possible

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

To be fair you never gave more scans comparing the ship to the island to actually get a full island size and make true to that claim. Not saying I’m doubting it, but just wondering if you were gonna continue down the road of scaling the boat to the island

 

[Damage3245]

I'm saying that his is flat out wrong and it can't be used because it contradicts the lowest reasonable sizes possible

By that logic we can't use either calc then because the current version contradicts the largest reasonable size for the water too, based on Luffy's and Shiki's height.


So I'm fine with not using either calc.

 

[LordGinSama]

If I'm honest the most peculiar part with this feat is the walking speed.


I wouldn't say using a normal mammoths walking speed makes much sense here, given ya know it has six legs.

 

[KingTempest]

To be fair you never gave more scans comparing the ship to the island to actually get a full island size and make true to that claim. Not saying I’m doubting it, but just wondering if you were gonna continue down the road of scaling the boat to the island

You saying the water is that big is saying that the ship is of comparable size to the island. That is a ridiculous claim from literally every shot of the island

By that logic we can't use either calc then because the current version contradicts the largest reasonable size for the water too, based on Luffy's and Shiki's height.


So I'm fine with not using either calc.

Luffy and Shiki's height is inconsistent with the showings of the super spread out water there

This bs is saying Luffy and Shiki are comparable in size to the damn island

 

[Kachon123]

based on Luffy's and Shiki's height.

You mean based on the height that Arc pretty much said are inaccurate due to them being behind the water blob?

 

[Damage3245]

You mean based on the height that Arc pretty much said are inaccurate due to them being behind the water blob?

That only applies to Shiki, not Luffy, and we both know that wouldn't make a huge difference here anyway.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

You mean based on the height that Arc pretty much said are inaccurate due to them being behind the water blob?

Not what I said, stop putting words in my mouth.

I said this: “Shiki is a bit behind the smaller water blob, but not by a lot, so this wouldn't inflate the smaller blob too much.”

Shiki being behind the blob means he’s appearing smaller than what he actually is, meaning the blob is appearing larger in comparison to Shiki than it actually is.