One Punch Man: Characters scaling to Gouketsu

[Farfetchedx]

Introduction​

Currently, we only scale a handful of characters to Gouketsu, but I believe that most of the S-Class heroes and the Cadres should scale to him. There is strong evidence to support this:

1) In chapter 74, Psykos urged Gouketsu to leave the stadium before multiple S–Class heroes arrived, warning that even he would struggle against them. While this doesn't mean that every single S-Class scales, at the very least, Pykos’ interpretation of Tatsumaki should scale to Gouketsu, since Psykos believes that she was the strongest hero available. Psykos herself was confident that she could defeat Tatsumaki in 1 0n 1 battle, which means she should scale to this estimated power of Tatsumaki. We've also scaled her to Elder Centipede similarly

2) Gouketsu confirms this concern by admitting that he (or any monster, for that matter) would be defeated by the Hero Association if they acted alone. This is clearly a reference to the S-Class heroes specifically, since they are the Association’s strongest fighters and the ones sent to face Dragon-level threats.

3) This is further supported by Psykos’ statement that a team-up of Black S and Homeless Emperor could defeat anyone, which would include Goketsu and those scaling to him. If she was referring to Black S without his mergers, or Homeless Emperor with his regular attacks, then several characters should already scale to that level(Darkshine's durability and those scaling to it, since Black S was unable to damage him without fully merging to GS). But even if she was speaking about Golden S and Homeless Emperor at full power, the next piece of evidence suggests that the Cadres and S-Class are comparable to them regardless.

4) After her battle with Tatsumaki, Psykos stated that no one was capable of defeating Tatsumaki in a one-on-one fight. This naturally includes characters such as Gouketsu, Golden S, and Homeless Emperor. Her strategy was instead to surround Tatsumaki with the Cadres and overwhelm her through numbers. This implies that most of the Cadres are on a comparable level with one another and should therefore be capable of harming opponents on the same tier as Gouketsu, Golden S, and Homeless Emperor.

5) The last point is that characters like Bang and Bomb should just downscale from Platinum S, who scales to Gouketsu. The current scaling suggests/implies that Post-Darkshine Garou simply became massively stronger after waking up/gaining consciousness after his fight with Bang.

There is no proof to suggest that Garou gets a massive increase in his stats, that places him several tiers above his unconscious state, when he becomes conscious. And logically, there’s no reason to believe it either. All we know is that his muscle coordination increases, which wouldn’t make such a big impact on physical strength, as muscle coordination mainly refers to how efficiently your nervous system recruits and synchronizes muscle fibers and groups of muscles during movement. Improvements here don’t necessarily mean the muscle tissue itself has gotten bigger or stronger, rather, it’s about how well you can use what you already have. Basically, muscle coordination increase is mainly an adaptation in skill, and Garou’s skill is what really increases, which makes sense, since fighting while thinking conscious, would logically increase anyone's ability to apply martial arts skill, rather than getting several times stronger.

During his fight against Bang specifically, he used the Awakening Breath, which draws out the user's full potential. This means that he should’ve been on the same level as when he became conscious, in physical capabilities. This logic should affect speed as well, and scale the speed of the Garou that bang fought to the speed of the Garou who could hit Platinum S and dodged Flashy's kick.

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Note: The Tatsumaki statements are absolutely in regard to AP. Esper's abilities rely on power. If there's not enough power, this is what happens.

Conclusion
While Gouketsu is undoubtedly one of the strongest cadres, he is still implied to be compared to by majority of the S-Class and Cadres.
Bang and Bomb should scale to Flashy Flash's speed

Scaling
The best way of I see to revise the scaling chain is:

At the very least, Pykos’ interpretation of Tatsumaki should scale to Gouketsu, since she was the strongest hero available. Psykos herself was confident that she could defeat Tatsumaki in 1 0n 1 battle, which means she should scale to this estimated power of Tatsumaki.

The only thing that would need to be changed is Gyoro Gyoro's justification, into something like this:

At least Country level (Gyoro Gyoro considers herself stronger than Tatsumaki - based on her knowledge of her at the time - who was one of the heroes that she said could contend with Elder Centipede. She also said that multiple S-Class heroes would give Gouketsu trouble, which her assessment of Tatsumaki should scale to, as she is believed to be the strongest available hero to face him at that point) higher with Multi-Eye Form (Much stronger than before. Believed that she was stronger than Tatsumaki after transforming)

or this:

At least Country level (Gyoro Gyoro considers herself stronger than Tatsumaki and stated that multiple S-Class heroes would give Gouketsu trouble, which her assessment of Tatsumaki should scale to, as she is believed to be the strongest available hero to face him at that point) higher with Multi-Eye Form (Much stronger than before. Believed that she was stronger than Tatsumaki after transforming)

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Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Kin201]

We should just nuke the Gouketsu scaling to the meteor or Tatsumaki's casual feats in Boros arc tbh.

 

[Farfetchedx]

We should just nuke the Gouketsu scaling to the meteor or Tatsumaki's casual feats in Boros arc tbh.

Gouketsu's rating comes from his own feat

 

[Damage3245]

We should just nuke the Gouketsu scaling to the meteor or Tatsumaki's casual feats in Boros arc tbh.

Gouketsu's rating comes from his own feat

Weirdly Gouketsu's justification on his profile has nothing to do with his actual rating which links directly to his Country level calc.

1) In chapter 74, Psykos urged Gouketsu to leave the stadium before multiple S–Class heroes arrived, warning that even he would struggle against them.

2) Gouketsu confirms this concern by admitting that he (or any monster, for that matter) would be defeated by the Hero Association if they acted alone. This is clearly a reference to the S-Class heroes specifically, since they are the Association’s strongest fighters and the ones sent to face Dragon-level threats.

Being threatened by multiple S-Class heroes doesn't mean that any specific ones necessarily scale directly to him. That group includes the likes of Blast, Metal Knight, King, etc.

3) This is further supported by Psykos’ statement that a team-up of Black S and Homeless Emperor could defeat anyone, which would include Goketsu and those scaling to him. If she was referring to Black S without his mergers, or Homeless Emperor with his regular attacks, then several characters should already scale to that level(Darkshine's durability and those scaling to it, since Black S was unable to damage him without fully merging to GS). But even if she was speaking about Golden S and Homeless Emperor at full power, the next piece of evidence suggests that the Cadres and S-Class are comparable to them regardless.

4) After her battle with Tatsumaki, Psykos stated that no one was capable of defeating Tatsumaki in a one-on-one fight. This naturally includes characters such as Gouketsu, Golden S, and Homeless Emperor. Her strategy was instead to surround Tatsumaki with the Cadres and overwhelm her through numbers. This implies that most of the Cadres are on a comparable level with one another and should therefore be capable of harming opponents on the same tier as Gouketsu, Golden S, and Homeless Emperor.

Gouketsu was dead at the time these statement were made. He wouldn't necessarily factor into them.

 

[Farfetchedx]

Being threatened by multiple S-Class heroes doesn't mean that any specific ones necessarily scale directly to him. That group includes the likes of Blast, Metal Knight, King, etc.

Psykos never factored in Blast, since the impression was that he retired . Psykos believed that Tatsumaki was the strongest available hero

Gouketsu was dead at the time these statement were made. He wouldn't necessarily factor into them.

Yeah, I know that not everyone would be on board with Psykos statements to include Gouketsu, since he was dead, hence why I listed others who scale tom him

 

[Damage3245]

Psykos never factored in Blast, since the impression was that he retired . Psykos believed that Tatsumaki was the strongest available hero

That's one characters impression of Blast, not what everyone thinks of him. And Psykos doesn't mention Tatsumaki being the strongest available hero there. King is also generally considered to be the strongest hero.

 

[Farfetchedx]

That's one characters impression of Blast, not what everyone thinks of him. And Psykos doesn't mention Tatsumaki being the strongest available hero there. King is also generally considered to be the strongest hero.

She is believed to be unbeatable, and Blast is believed to not be show up during times of crisis.
Also, while this panel doesn't outright state that Psykos believes Tatsumaki is the strongest available hero, it's implied by the fact that she couldn't believe that someone else was strong enough to take precedence over her her fight with Tatsumkaki. Her saying, "but this is Tornado" suggest that she believes that no one is stronger

 

[Kachon123]

Disagree FRA. At most this would only apply to like, Psykos.

 

[Farfetchedx]

Disagree FRA. At most this would only apply to like, Psykos.

disagree with what exactly? Also, Psykos AP=Gyoro Gyoro's, unless you meant serum Psykos

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yeah I generally disagree as well.

1) In chapter 74, Psykos urged Gouketsu to leave the stadium before multiple S–Class heroes arrived, warning that even he would struggle against them.

Like Damage already pointed out this doesn't really scale to anyone specifically. Tatsumaki is already way above that and King is perceived to be essentially unbeatable in strength so they could just be referring to them

2) Gouketsu confirms this concern by admitting that he (or any monster, for that matter) would be defeated by the Hero Association if they acted alone. This is clearly a reference to the S-Class heroes specifically, since they are the Association’s strongest fighters and the ones sent to face Dragon-level threats.

Same as before. "you can't solo the HA" ≠ "I can't solo any S class"

3) This is further supported by Psykos’ statement that a team-up of Black S and Homeless Emperor could defeat anyone, which would include Goketsu and those scaling to him. If she was referring to Black S without his mergers, or Homeless Emperor with his regular attacks, then several characters should already scale to that level(Darkshine's durability and those scaling to it, since Black S was unable to damage him without fully merging to GS). But even if she was speaking about Golden S and Homeless Emperor at full power, the next piece of evidence suggests that the Cadres and S-Class are comparable to them regardless.

Obviously Goketsu can't beat them when he's dead. This statement also implies Tatsumaki would lose to HE and BS so it's already very sketchy.

4) After her battle with Tatsumaki, Psykos stated that no one was capable of defeating Tatsumaki in a one-on-one fight. This naturally includes characters such as Gouketsu, Golden S, and Homeless Emperor. Her strategy was instead to surround Tatsumaki with the Cadres and overwhelm her through numbers. This implies that most of the Cadres are on a comparable level with one another and should therefore be capable of harming opponents on the same tier as Gouketsu, Golden S, and Homeless Emperor.

Not really.

5) The last point is that characters like Bang and Bomb should just downscale from Platinum S, who scales to Gouketsu. The current scaling suggests/implies that Post-Darkshine Garou simply became massively stronger after waking up/gaining consciousness after his fight with Bang.

I don’t really have any issues with that as long as there isn't some other contradiction or massive inflation of stats from this.

 

[Farfetchedx]

Like Damage already pointed out this doesn't really scale to anyone specifically. Tatsumaki is already way above that and King is perceived to be essentially unbeatable in strength so they could just be referring to them

I've already addressed this . Tatsumaki's full power has nothing to do with this at all.

Scaling
The best way of I see to revise the scaling chain is:

At the very least, Pykos’ interpretation of Tatsumaki should scale to Gouketsu, since she was the strongest hero available. Psykos herself was confident that she could defeat Tatsumaki in 1 0n 1 battle, which means she should scale to this estimated power of Tatsumaki.

Same as before. "you can't solo the HA" ≠ "I can't solo any S class"

Not what I'm implying. Just that 3 or 4 S-Class should be able to damage him, with the exception of Blast.

Obviously Goketsu can't beat them when he's dead.

Yeah, I know that not everyone would be on board with Psykos statements to include Gouketsu, since he was dead, hence why I listed others who scale tom him

This statement also implies Tatsumaki would lose to HE and BS so it's already very sketchy.

Not at all. She'd lose in a 2 v1. Whoever they can beat, they would individually need to scale to. Psykos' interpretation of Tatsumaki scales above them individually, so she'd be comparable to whoever they can beat in a 2v1. Just to note: comparable doesn't mean equal to, just able to damage.

Not really.

?

 

[Farfetchedx]

Bump(OP updated)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm a big lost, what are simplified proposals and vote tally so far?

 

[Farfetchedx]

I'm a big lost, what are simplified proposals and vote tally so far?

That a lot of the mid tiers should scale to Gouketsu. They're multiple reasons or implications. But the main one being proposed is this:

In chapter 74, Psykos urged Gouketsu to leave the stadium before multiple S–Class heroes arrived, warning that even he would struggle against them. Now, at the very least, this statement should apply to Psyko's own interpretation of tatsumaki, since Psykos believes that she was the strongest hero available + Tatsumaki is widely regarded as the Hero Association's greatest and most powerful weapon. Now, despite saying that, Psykos was confident that she could beat Tatsumaki in a one on one battle, meaning she should scale to this estimated version of Tatsumaki, which would give Gouketsu a hard time.

We've also scaled her to Elder Centipede similarly

The next thing is that Bang and Bomb should scale to Flashy Flashy’s speed, due Garou dodging his kick and tagging Platinum S right after fighting Bang. The only difference is that Garou was conscious when he dodged Flashy Flashy’s kick and tagged Platinum S, but as I explained, that shouldn’t make much of a difference. Also, when Garou fought Bang, he used the Awakening Breath, which draws out the user's full potential. This means that an unconscious Garou should have been on par with, if not superior to conscious Garou in physicals.

No votes have been tallied

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump.

 

[Farfetchedx]

I'm a big lost, what are simplified proposals and vote tally so far?

Bump

 

[Farfetchedx]

Bump

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[Farfetchedx]

Bump

 

[DavidTPPM]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you have 3 OPM CRTs open and the limit for 1 verse per person is 2.

 

[Farfetchedx]

alright then, this can be closed for now

 

[MrTayman616]

In chapter 74, Psykos urged Gouketsu to leave the stadium before multiple S–Class heroes arrived, warning that even he would struggle against them. While this doesn't mean that every single S-Class scales, at the very least, Pykos’ interpretation of Tatsumaki should scale to Gouketsu, since Psykos believes that she was the strongest hero available. Psykos herself was confident that she could defeat Tatsumaki in 1 0n 1 battle, which means she should scale to this estimated power of Tatsumaki. We've also scaled her to Elder Centipede similarly

Psykos doesn't say it based on strength alone, there are multiple factors she takes into account. Matchups exists in battles.

Also even then, it doesn't really give a reason for Tatsumaki to scale. Using your logic wouldn't apply to Tatsumaki but King, who's believed to be the strongest even above Tatsumaki.

Gouketsu confirms this concern by admitting that he (or any monster, for that matter) would be defeated by the Hero Association if they acted alone. This is clearly a reference to the S-Class heroes specifically, since they are the Association’s strongest fighters and the ones sent to face Dragon-level threats.

Same answer as before, also this would include Orochi as well. So S-Class heroes would scale to Orochi rather than Gouketsu.

Simply this statement doesn't help to scale as we don't even know if they include such characters like Blast etc.

This is further supported by Psykos’ statement that a team-up of Black S and Homeless Emperor could defeat anyone, which would include Goketsu and those scaling to him. If she was referring to Black S without his mergers, or Homeless Emperor with his regular attacks, then several characters should already scale to that level(Darkshine's durability and those scaling to it, since Black S was unable to damage him without fully merging to GS). But even if she was speaking about Golden S and Homeless Emperor at full power, the next piece of evidence suggests that the Cadres and S-Class are comparable to them regardless.

Psykos is saying it based on "compability" Black Sperm has "numbers" while Homeless Emperor has power.

A Black Sperm doesn't scale in terms of power.

After her battle with Tatsumaki, Psykos stated that no one was capable of defeating Tatsumaki in a one-on-one fight. This naturally includes characters such as Gouketsu, Golden S, and Homeless Emperor. Her strategy was instead to surround Tatsumaki with the Cadres and overwhelm her through numbers. This implies that most of the Cadres are on a comparable level with one another and should therefore be capable of harming opponents on the same tier as Gouketsu, Golden S, and Homeless Emperor.

This doesn't include Golden Sperm, who Psykos isn't even aware of.

What Psykos believe is using multiple "Dragon threat" against Tatsumaki using her plans and experience. It doesn't mean they're comparable individually or anything.

The last point is that characters like Bang and Bomb should just downscale from Platinum S, who scales to Gouketsu. The current scaling suggests/implies that Post-Darkshine Garou simply became massively stronger after waking up/gaining consciousness after his fight with Bang.

Garou acted instantly that even Bomb was surprised about it. Not to mention he started leaving light trails behind after that. Which we didn't see once while he was fighting against Bang and Bomb.

There is no proof to suggest that Garou gets a massive increase in his stats, that places him several tiers above his unconscious state, when he becomes conscious. And logically, there’s no reason to believe it either. All we know is that his muscle coordination increases, which wouldn’t make such a big impact on physical strength, as muscle coordination mainly refers to how efficiently your nervous system recruits and synchronizes muscle fibers and groups of muscles during movement. Improvements here don’t necessarily mean the muscle tissue itself has gotten bigger or stronger, rather, it’s about how well you can use what you already have. Basically, muscle coordination increase is mainly an adaptation in skill, and Garou’s skill is what really increases, which makes sense, since fighting while thinking conscious, would logically increase anyone's ability to apply martial arts skill, rather than getting several times stronger.

Garou's emotional state affects his strength a lot, which he awakened thanks to Bang there.

Not to mention this panel heavily shows otherwise.

During his fight against Bang specifically, he used the Awakening Breath, which draws out the user's full potential. This means that he should’ve been on the same level as when he became conscious, in physical capabilities. This logic should affect speed as well, and scale the speed of the Garou that bang fought to the speed of the Garou who could hit Platinum S and dodged Flashy's kick.

Awakening Breath makes you use your full power, but it doesn't include the fact that your full power can increase.

While Gouketsu is undoubtedly one of the strongest cadres, he is still implied to be compared to by majority of the S-Class and Cadres.

He's compared to the S-Class heroes, not individually but whole.

At the very least, Pykos’ interpretation of Tatsumaki should scale to Gouketsu, since she was the strongest hero available. Psykos herself was confident that she could defeat Tatsumaki in 1 0n 1 battle, which means she should scale to this estimated power of Tatsumaki.

No. Nothing here implies Tatsumaki scales imo, just that S-Class heroes together can cause trouble to him.

Overall, i disagree with the thread.

 

[Damage3245]

alright then, this can be closed for now

Okay. Closing at the OP's request.