One small nitpick: being equivalent to a tatical nuke does not make your attacks equivalent to nuke explosions

[Mand21]

It's just the following: Rimuru Tempest is being tiered 7-C because he is superior to people who are compared to tatical nukes. Sure, sure, but do they have nuclear feats?

Let me point out one thing: imagine a High 8-C and Subsonic+ person in real life, with enough stamina to fight for a few hours before getting tired. Yes, someone who can take down a neighbourhood in a bunch of punches, who can run around so fast you can never get to aim a bullet on them and who won't take significant damage from anything lower than high-end artillery and even then cannot die from that because it doesn't have the concentrated firepower of something like a punch, so it will be low damage distributed through the body. Who could take a railgun or antitank shot to the body and survive but won't take them because you can't aim directly at them with all that speed, who has above average human intelligence or, even worse, is a gifted tactician.

Would it be wrong to call this High 8-C individual an equivalent of a tatical nuke? I'm pretty sure they could take down at least a small town before being brought down, and it could indeed take a nuke to make sure they're dead.

In other words, when we're saying an individual is comparable to a nuke, we're not saying each of their attacks is comparable to a nuke, but that dropping them somewhere is comparable to dropping a nuke somewhere, as they will cause similar destruction.

So... may we use feats instead of lore in this case? It definitely seems like a person compared to a nuke can be no lower than Tier 8, as that's true for real life and for any fantasy where Tier 9 attacks are common enough that a 9-A would be quickly stopped by any city's defenses. It doesn't seem likely that Rimuru is actually 7-C on his first key just because he's stronger than people who "are in a war equivalent to tatical nukes". Give me 8-C+ punches and I can also cause destruction akin to that of a nuclear bomb.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I imagine this depends on the context of the statement.

 

[Mand21]

Yeah, that's important to bring up, which is why I'm asking the question. Saying a character is "equivalent to a tatical nuke" is insufficient.

Also, I've seen characters from that verse being ranked 6-A because "That guy there would destroy his continent-sized country if going all-out", which might just mean "Each of his blows would be destructive af and an all out battle would end up wiping out the country".

Also, unless all of Milim Nava's attacks are as strong as her Dragon Nova and/or she or people comparable to her can tank its impact, she isn't always High 4-C, just has one High 4-C attack.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

It isn't just cause they are comparable to nukes, arch demons are stated to be able to destroy entire towns, and rimuru created an arena which was stated to be able to tank nukes, diablo and co can destroy said arena.

As for leon, his ability is specifically said to be a super large range ability and thus he couldn't use it fully or he would destroy his continent sized country, so someone had to specially seal off the area leon was in so he could use his ability.

True Dragons have more energy than milim, true dragons tank attacks from each other, milim using wrathful lord satan>true dragons.

 

[Mand21]

It isn't just cause they are comparable to nukes, arch demons are stated to be able to destroy entire towns, and rimuru created an arena which was stated to be able to tank nukes, diablo and co can destroy said arena.

Was the arena created in one go? Can they destroy entire towns in a single blow? Can they destroy the entire arena in one attack? Just damaging it doesn't mean they're 7-C.

As for leon, his ability is specifically said to be a super large range ability and thus he couldn't use it fully or he would destroy his continent sized country, so someone had to specially seal off the area leon was in so he could use his ability.
Sure, does every single one of his attacks pack as much punch as this one ability, or is it a huge special? Can the ability be casually laid or does it require preparations/has a huge cooldown?

True Dragons have more energy than milim, true dragons tank attacks from each other, milim using wrathful lord satan>true dragons.
Um, so what? That doesn't mean every single one of her attacks is that strong, nor that even their casual attacks are as strong as her special.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Btw this isn't a small nitpick, pretty big nitpicks here.

Arch demons being stated to destroy towns:

" Their strength, "A+", is said to be equivalent to pre-demon lord class. And their powers, remained as demon lords of legends. A single devil who destroys untold numbers of towns. In both name and reality, it is said to be the strongest of the demon lords. Such a being with the caliber of a demon lord, the Arch Demon is right in front of his very eyes."

Arch demons being stated to be comparable to nukes:

" ÒÇîIf you think about it, normally you would think that the guardians that protected the research facilities were strong, right? But, the people that belong to that country's army are monsters, right? If so, the guardians in the labyrinth aren't the strongest, right?ÒÇì ÒÇîI think the same. At least, the Demon Lord Rimuru might be an exception. In the past, a city seemed to have been annihilated by a wicked dragon named Veldora… Actually, a similar thing seemed to have happened. I think that an Arc Demon is equal to a tactical nuclear weapon in Earth.ÒÇì"

The previous statement above is in relation to an arch demon who was summoned by the king of a small country and then proceeded to destroy said country before, that demon was Testarossa:

"Even if they opposed the empire, that small country population didn't even reach 10,000 people, so there's should be no chances of victory for them, but―― There was a reason why the king suddenly declared his country's independence. A noble from the Empire desired for the princess, his only daughter. In the Empire, which had become powerful, it was impossible for the emperor to grasp the movements of such a small country. The margrave, who was entrusted to rule the area, borrowed the emperor's authority, and performed atrocities. Such a spectacle was a common occurrence in the Empire. The Arc Demon appeared from the Demon Summoning; then destroyed that small country:

Stage capable of tanking nukes:

"The audience surrounded the ground level section of the arena. At the entrance there were large stone tiles that were used to pave the ground. Processing the two meter squares was a rather tasking challenge, but they were carefully laid in a pattern similar to a checkerboard. The gaps are filled with an impact-absorbent material with additional adhesive properties, giving it the appearance of a large slab of rock. Since I spread a soft film of magic over it, its durability was increased. Even if it's ordinary solid rock, it's 300 harder than concrete. The material spread over this layer is 10,000 times harder than concrete. It's 2m thick. I was surprised at how its durability is comparable to nuclear shelters. There's no need to even test it, I'm confident that it would be able to take a direct hit from a nuclear strike, especially after a certain bad cook had a try at breaking it. There's no difference between the two in my mind anymore…"

Karion breaking said stage:

"Souka's command reached their ears. And as if tearing the air around them, a battle cry reverberated through the arena. It was Karion who roared. Covered in white silver bristles, he revealed his magic beast form. He was not aiming for victory while preserving his strength; rather, he sought to win quickly by using all of his strength. Denting the arena floor itself, he released his fighting spirit along with the Byakko-Seiryugeki. A large crack ran through one of the stone slabs on the floor. The depth of the crack testifying to his steps' power."

Random fodder in the labrinth creating storms:

"This was the Pure White Demon Monkey 'Byakuen'. It used Martial Arts with a club, and could effortlessly walk on air. Controlling wind and sound, it would fill the skies with raging storms. This unfathomably dangerous demon would then shoot out Void Blades"

Ranga can create tornadoes, although this is a 8-A feat.




Leon's fighting seriously would destroy his country, leon later got bodied by kazaream:

"However, no matter how you deny it, the fact that you cannot fight all out won't change. After all, your power is too strong, you would destroy this country if you fight seriously!ÒÇì ――That's right, Kagali's words were true. Leon's ability, Ultimate Skill『Purity Lord Metatron』is a wide ranged type ability suitable for large-scale annihilation. If he went all out, this magical city state would be destroyed from the inside."

Milim even in base is one of the strongest characters in the series, obviously she would lose to true dragons, but the gap isn't as massive as would be suggest if she was just High 4-C with one attack, plus she destroyed Lucia's castle guard which is stated to be able to tank star destroying attacks:

"Even if I made use of『Void God Azothoth』and launched a high output attack, even if it was an attack that could destroy the stars, Lucia would survive in the end."

" ÒÇîWhat a foolish thing to say!? I have『Castle Guard』. There are many angels in this heaven, and besides even humanity's faiths are directed to this ability now, my defensive powers are incomparable to Rudra's which was reliant on something as vulnerable as loyalty ――ÒÇì ÒÇîSHUT UP!ÒÇì

Milim interrupted Lucia with a roar. And then, she thrust her fist towards Lucia. Lucia instantly put her guard up. 『Castle Guard』 automatically deployed in front of Lucia and protected her. (You're foolish, Milim. It's troublesome that you broke out the control unexpectedly, but if Velda-sama awakened with perfect form, someone like you won't matter. I only have to endure until then――） The real surprise hit Lucia at the moment she thought up that far. 『Castle Guard』 was smashed into pieces and scattered before her eyes."

 

[Mand21]

So, it's told to destroy many towns, but not in one blow, not how long it takes...

An Arc Demon as an ENTITY is equal to a weapon which detonates in an instant...

The Demon isn't said to destroy the country in one blow, even one country can destroy another with no Tier 6 stuff and throughout a few months or years.

The arena seems to have been built throughout the course of some time, not spit out at once, besides, while it could withstand it, nothing is said about not taking damages, maybe even serious structural ones.

The arena's floor was merely dented by the raising of power level. Not sure how much he can damage by actually attacking, but I'd bet it's not the entirety of the arena with no single blow.

How much energy is a storm made of? Also, if it requires preps or is implied to be ED, it may not fully scale, but yeah, Ranga being 8-A feat is pretty nice. Is this Ranga's best attack, though? If so, his normal ones may be weaker. Also, what are the supporting feats to that one? It'd be weird if he couldn't cause at least vaguely similar destruction with any other moves.

Again, is this ability the way Leon casually attacks people? As in a full power blow that is however by no means his special attack, such as Striking Strength.

Has it been verified that it's not one of the various cases of mistranslations wherein the word "Hoshi" might be interpreted as star or planet?

 

[OpMasada]

Nitpicks about unknown AOE? meh.

@Celestial I read on discord that Leon didn't want to fight Carrera because she would sink his continent in the LN.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Mand The arena floor is still said to be 10,000 times harder than concrete, and can take a direct hit from a nuke, the fact that karion could deal any meaningful kind of damage to it means he should scale, unless you think say a wall level character could dent a floor which can tank nukes?

Also Karion can destroy everything within 2km:

"This roar releases one's magical energy at the opponent. All his energy was focused on the tip of the lance, yet it remained undamaged. Had he fired it on the ground, everything in the direction of the attack would be inadvertently erased; it is "Beast King" Karion's sure-kill technique. Normally, its power would not wane in the slightest for the first 100 meters. 'And, the actual range of the attack could go well past 2 kilometers.' Thus, the long range makes this a skill that is best used against multiple opponents, but it can be regulated to be concentrated on a single one. This would be the first time he will use Beast Roar against a single opponent, but he could hardly imagine anyone being able to withstand it."

And no ranga's ability isn't prep:

"Sensing the flow of power, he focused his magic on his horns. The orc general picked up on this higher-level transformation, and he knew the danger involved. He hurriedly ordered his soldiers to spread out, but he was too late.Then the sound came—the crack of thunder as pillars of electricity shot up from the ground to the heavens, accompanied by a small army of tornadoes. Ranga had obtained the Dark Lightning skill—and while he couldn't directly control lightning the way Rimuru could, his two horns allowed him to define its range and power. And he had something else—the extra skill Control Wind. This was, in a way, an inferior version of the Control Particles skill Rimuru had picked up. It let Ranga raise and lower the local atmospheric pressure to generate wind gusts, and combining it with Dark Lightning provided a lethal one-two punch. Ranga knew that—his instincts told him so—and he used it on his foes without a moment's hesitation. Control Wind was his now, and he used it to generate a staggering pressure difference in the air above. This was the area he used Dark Lightning on, and the ensuing beams of electricity filled the exact area he wanted. The result was a writhing maelstrom of upward and downward air currents, eventually gathering themselves into a single massive vortex. This led to several large tornadoes, exuding electricity as they ran roughshod across the battlefield like a great death-dealing storm."

Tornadoes are 8-A, multicity block level+, and considering ranga created a several of them, small town level is reasonable. Bare in mind this is ranga before the harvest festival where he gets a significant boost in power.

The continent level stuff is how leon attacks ppl when he is serious.

You're seriously being nitpicky here.

@Opmasada Cool

Edit: Benimaru vaporizing several thousand ppl will probably give good results too, and again this is benimaru before the harvest festival:

"Realizing his foes had no intention of fleeing, Benimaru casually thrust his right hand forward. A black ball of flame flickered to life above it, expanding to about three feet in diameter before he unleashed it. Realizing the danger, the orcish soldiers took evasive action—but they were too late. The fireball continued to expand and accelerate, faster than a hurricane, and the orcs were simply too slow to run from it. Anyone who touched it was instantly incinerated, not even leaving a pile of ashes behind. But that wasn't what made the dark fireball terrifying. Several seconds later, upon reaching a large clutch of orcs in front of it, the flame released all the energy it had stored inside. An area three hundred feet in diameter was suddenly cloaked in a dome of pure black, centered around the fireball. Then, a mighty rumble, low and loud enough to freeze the entire battlefield, and the blood of everyone in it. The entire area was now quiet, robbed of the sounds of war that ruled over it just a moment ago. This was Hellflare, an incendiary attack that dominated like nothing before or since. In his evolution, Benimaru had obtained the extra skills Control Flame, Dark Flame, and Ranged Barrier. Combining those with his own mystical skills led to this creation, an original skill exclusive to himself. In a few seconds, the dome disappeared, leaving nothing but scorched earth behind. The marsh water in the area affected had vaporized, the very soil under it turned into glass by the heat. The transformation was stark, and the several thousand orcs who had been under that dome were all now a thing of the past, never knowing what had hit them."

 

[Mand21]

Being able to dent a concrete wall which is 9-A upon destruction means you scale to concrete, not to the wall. But yeah, I guess what you said makes sense.

...darn, that series is indeed OP. The anime didn't give the slightest taste of that yet, did it?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

There isn't gonna be much op stuff this season, next season if it happens though is when the power escalates, cause it starts dealing with demon lords, and demon lords are op.

At best the anime will go up to hinata vs rimuru, which is right before the op stuff kicks in. The aforementioned feats of ranga, benimaru and karion will be in this season if it goes up to hinata vs rimuru, however the brokenness of the characters abilities won't be there.

Though stuff like hinata being able to destroy souls and erase ppl on a spiritual and atomic level will be there, along with her light speed attack, but that's still low tier hax when compared to what happens later.

 

[Sheska444]

> Speed of Light attack feats, > Being able to eradicate things and people to a spiritual n an atomic level are considered to be low tier hax what the heck with this bulshit?! pftt

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

You need stuff like causality manipulation or uber reality warping to be relevant in tensei or something like ignoring resistances.

 

[Mand21]

The anime season is gonna have 24 episodes. From my experience, each volume of an LN is typically roughly equivalent to 4 episodes on average. That gives 6 volumes on the LN. Does it really only begin to escalate around the seventh volume?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The anime took 8 episodes to do a single volume, but has since increased the pace a little, still only like 4-5 volumes at best will be adapted by current pacing.

It's a progressive escalation i would say, it's around volume 8 though where it's pretty clear the characters are op since by then you have stuff like reality warping and fate manipulation.

This assumes the ln stays consistent with the wn though, but i think it does, since the ln just tends to expand on stuff if anything.

 

[Mand21]

I see. owo

Well, I guess this thread was a little meaningless, then.