OPM: Few Additions

[MrTayman616]

Orochi:
Instinctive Reaction/Extrasensory Perception Negation (or Resistance) (Can ignore Awakened Cockroach's senses that allows him to sense hostility and dodge beforehand)

It isn't a case of blitzing the opponent, he fully ignores it. Orochi had already shown his intent before attacking him yet Awakened Cockroach didn't do any kind of action, doesn't make sense for it to be a blitz situation. He could also surprise attack other people, like Garou, who's shown to be able to instinctively dodge attacks many times.

Black Sperm:
Multiple Selves (Type 2) as mind = soul. Also they've been consistently referred as different living beings and that they have different consciousness even while being together, so it should apply regardless.

Darkshine:
Darkshine currently heavily upscales from 315 Megatons, but he should upscale from twice the value. (Garou also currently upscales from 315 Megatons)

We know that Garou is capable of attacking with 2x power via deflecting/redirecting the opponent's attacks. But while fighting against Darkshine, he wasn't even capable of deflecting it as the attack was too powerful. it should be above the damage he gives while redirecting. Not just that but Garou himself states how he could be able to win was to use both WSRS and Whirlwind Iron Cutting Fist techniques at the same time continuously, showing it to be useless against him. Also he already tried using attacks like that which caused no damage.

It should also apply to other characters who scales to Full Power Darkshine and above.

Garou:
Garou Cosmic Fear Mode has the knowledge of flow of all energy and behavior of all forces and he's able to replicate even universal phenomenons by taking knowledge of the flow of energy behind these events and recreating them within his body.

He should have Electricity Manipulation, Magnetism Manipulation as both makes up electromagnetic force which he's stated to have the knowledge of and can manipulate.

Also, he should be resistant to the effect of the events he can replicate as these are recreated within his body, meaning he's able to handle all of them, which we also see how he wasn't affected by any of the abilities he uses, like Nuclear Fission, Black Hole etc. (Wouldn't make sense either as he wouldn't be capable of using them otherwise).

Resistances :
Matter Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation & Magnetism Manipulation from Gamma Ray Burst

Space-Time Manipulation from Black Hole (His profile just has it as Spatial Manipulation, it should be changed to this.)

Chi:
Chi Sensing and Chi Manipulation: Some monsters, top tier martial artists and sword masters are shown to be able to sense Ki and some being able to manipulate it, either for healing/regeneration purposes or better use of body and weapons.

Characters who are more skilled than Half-Monster Garou, in the same area(martial art etc), should be capable of sensing it. So Chi sensing for Bang, Bomb, Atomic Samurai, Half-Monster Garou, Orochi.

Orochi and Sage Centipede will get Chi Manipulation alongside their regeneration. Same for Atomic Samurai via Sun Blade as it uses the Ki of the user.

 

[Kachon123]

Darkshine:
Darkshine currently heavily upscales from 315 Megatons, but he should upscale from twice the value. (Garou also currently upscales from 315 Megatons)

We know that Garou is capable of attacking with 2x power via deflecting/redirecting the opponent's attacks. But while fighting against Darkshine, he wasn't even capable of deflecting it as the attack was too powerful. it should be above the damage he gives while redirecting. Not just that but Garou himself states how he could be able to win was to use both WSRS and Whirlwind Iron Cutting Fist techniques at the same time continuously, showing it to be useless against him. Also he already tried using attacks like that which caused no damage.

It should also apply to other characters who scales to Full Power Darkshine and above.

I have a thread planned that will mention this and some other stuff so could this be put on hold?

 

[MrTayman616]

I have a thread planned that will mention this and some other stuff so could this be put on hold?

Just the Darkshine section or overall? I wouldn't mind either way.

 

[Kachon123]

Darkshine

 

[Kachon123]

Everything looks fine by the way.

Chi manipulation has a bunch of other abilities under it as subsets but that can be handled on its own time.

 

[MrTayman616]

Chi manipulation has a bunch of other abilities under it as subsets but that can be handled on its own time.

Like Sealing etc? It applies to the verse but it doesn't apply to characters.

 

[Damage3245]

Orochi:
Instinctive Reaction/Extrasensory Perception Negation (Can ignore Awakened Cockroach's senses that allows him to sense hostility and dodge beforehand)

It isn't a case of blitzing the opponent, he fully ignores it. Orochi had already shown his intent before attacking him yet Awakened Cockroach didn't do any kind of action, doesn't make sense for it to be a blitz situation. He could also surprise attack other people, like Garou, who's shown to be able to instinctively dodge attacks many times.

Couldn't this just be because Awakened Cockroach is injured, and wouldn't be able to necessarily get out of the way in time?

 

[Kachon123]

Couldn't this just be because Awakened Cockroach is injured, and wouldn't be able to necessarily get out of the way in time?

He seemed surprised even after the fact. Against a normal target, even if it was fast enough to blitz him he'd still know that he got hit afterwards.

 

[MrTayman616]

Couldn't this just be because Awakened Cockroach is injured, and wouldn't be able to necessarily get out of the way in time?

He escaped Genos's beam point blank in that state and was still sure he could do something to him later. Shouldn't be that slow. And Orochi himself already showed his intent. We don't see any type of movement from him.

Also he was surprised about it, which doesn't make sense as his abilities work based on opponent's hostility.

 

[Damage3245]

He seemed surprised even after the fact. Against a normal target, even if it was fast enough to blitz him he'd still know that he got hit afterwards.

I'd be pretty shocked if I had a giant horn piercing through my chest, even if I sensed it was coming.

He escaped Genos's beam point blank in that state and was still sure he could do something to him later. Shouldn't be that slow. And Orochi himself already showed his intent. We don't see any type of movement from him.

Also he was surprised about it, which doesn't make sense as his abilities work based on opponent's hostility.

I don't think that's enough to say that he somehow negated Awakened Cockroach's senses/instincts. We don't see any movement from Awakened Cockroach, true... but he was off-screen when he was hit. Maybe he moved a few inches to the side and was still too slow to escape.

 

[Kachon123]

I'd be pretty shocked if I had a giant horn piercing through my chest, even if I sensed it was coming.

If you had the supernatural ability to sense intent and predict the next moves from it but you were still confused about what happened after getting stabbed by a dude leaking murderous intent, I'd find that weird.

 

[Damage3245]

If you had the supernatural ability sense intent and predict the next moves from it but you were still confused about what happened after getting stabbed by a dude leaking murderous intent, I'd find that weird.

Awakened Cockroach's surprise may come not from the action itself, but the fact that Orochi is attacking him at all. He's just surprised that he's being killed by his boss.

 

[Kachon123]

Awakened Cockroach's surprise may come not from the action itself, but the fact that Orochi is attacking him at all. He's just surprised that he's being killed by his boss.

I mean he's literally a cockroach. They can sense things long before they reach, and his sense is boosted to supernatural levels. Even random fire doesn't work so it's not something he has to expect.

 

[MrTayman616]

I don't think that's enough to say that he somehow negated Awakened Cockroach's senses/instincts. We don't see any movement from Awakened Cockroach, true... but he was off-screen when he was hit. Maybe he moved a few inches to the side and was still too slow to escape.

Orochi was talking very slowly, literally word by word. He'd be able to escape somewhat. Also it's shown to be surprise and we were shown no movement. Assuming he both tried to escape and his surprise not being the case (even though he senses it before the action is even made) doesn't make any sense.

Also he's fast enough to escape from Genos in that state. No way he's injured to the point he won't be able to move at all while Orochi is slowly talking.

 

[Damage3245]

I still don't think that him being surprised at being stabbed is enough to say that his senses were negated. It doesn't make sense to me as being the most likely option here, sorry. Maybe other staff will have a different view on it.

No way he's injured to the point he won't be able to move at all while Orochi is slowly talking.

This is sort of my point; he's not going to be expecting Orochi to attack him in the first place while Orochi is talking, so he wouldn't have a reason to pre-emptively move. Orochi doesn't explicitly say "I will now kill everyone who fled".

 

[MrTayman616]

This is sort of my point; he's not going to be expecting Orochi to attack him in the first place while Orochi is talking, so he wouldn't have a reason to pre-emptively move. Orochi doesn't explicitly say "I will now kill everyone who fled".

It's not about his expectations. He doesn't have to expect it. It's his senses and intent of the one who'll attack. Orochi has already decided what he'll do before attacking him. Normally he'd sense it and move away before it happens. Yet he couldn't do it even though Orochi was slowly talking(Awakened Cockroach had everything he needed to move).

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Orochi:
Instinctive Reaction/Extrasensory Perception Negation (Can ignore Awakened Cockroach's senses that allows him to sense hostility and dodge beforehand)

It isn't a case of blitzing the opponent, he fully ignores it. Orochi had already shown his intent before attacking him yet Awakened Cockroach didn't do any kind of action, doesn't make sense for it to be a blitz situation. He could also surprise attack other people, like Garou, who's shown to be able to instinctively dodge attacks many times.

That could just be Orochi blitzing him. Even if you can predict an attack, it doesn’t mean much if your opponent is simply too fast.


Also, Orochi used his horns — an unconventional attack method — which likely caught him off guard and added to the surprise.

The rest i agree with.

 

[MrTayman616]

That could just be Orochi blitzing him. Even if you can predict an attack, it doesn’t mean much if your opponent is simply too fast.

Not the case. He dodges beforehand, not when the attack starts or anything. and Orochi started slow. Blitz simply doesn't work here.

Also, Orochi used his horns — an unconventional attack method — which likely caught him off guard and added to the surprise.

That itself isn't possible nor make any sense. His ability isn't "look at opponent's attack and dodge".

He dodges via senses. Even attacking him randomly doesn't work

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Not the case. He dodges beforehand, not when the attack starts or anything. and Orochi started slow. Blitz simply doesn't work here.

Looking at the scans again, we do not have a time frame for it so there is no reason for you to conclude that he started slow

That itself isn't possible nor make any sense. His ability isn't "look at opponent's attack and dodge".

He dodges via senses. Even attacking him randomly doesn't work

Guess what, everyone relies on their senses to dodge. Even seeing your opponent is a form of sensing, through eyesight.


Garou got caught off guard when the horns suddenly changed direction. He did react and attempt to dodge, but he still got hit because he wasn’t fast enough, which is exactly what a blitz is.

 

[MrTayman616]

Looking at the scans again, we do not have a time frame for it so there is no reason for you to conclude that he started slow

You might be looking at the wrong scans. Orochi literally says "Why... are there... defeated... among us?" He saw Awakened Cockroach and ready to kill him already.

You don't need a time frame to realize he's speaking slowly lol. Also even fodder monsters could understand what he was saying, yet the dude with the high speed and extraordinary senses can't hear it?

You completely misunderstand his ability here

Guess what, everyone relies on their senses to dodge. Even seeing your opponent is a form of sensing, through eyesight.

Guess what, you completely ignored his ability. That's not what that is nor anything comparable to that.

He senses intent and dodges before the attack is even fired. He doesn't have to look at the opponent or anything.

 

[Damage3245]

Guess what, you completely ignored his ability. That's not what that is nor anything comparable to that.

He senses intent and dodges before the attack is even fired. He doesn't have to look at the opponent or anything.

That still doesn't guarantee absolute ability to dodge an attack that's still far faster than you. Acting on your instincts still takes some amount of time. (Which is made harder if you've lost your legs)

 

[MrTayman616]

That still doesn't guarantee absolute ability to dodge an attack that's still far faster than you. Acting on your instincts still takes some amount of time

We see no act of dodging at all even while Orochi was talking (Which he was ready to kill him, he had to leave at that moment) and all we have is surprised Awakened Cockroach questioning "wh-what are you doing?". Also it taking no time means nothing as he dodges before the attack is fired.

Even his statement about being able to escape from a laser as he dodges before it's fired. Yet we don't see any type of action at all.

Normally he'd move away before Orochi even started his attack, which he didn't do it and was even surprised.

 

[Epiccheev]

Even if you can predict an attack, it doesn’t mean much if your opponent is simply too fast.

What if they're an Oni maid filled with instinct and talent?

 

[Kachon123]

What if they're an Oni maid filled with instinct and talent?

This is how Saitama sees Orochi

 

[MrTayman616]

What if they're an Oni maid filled with instinct and talent?

Layered ability in that case.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

You might be looking at the wrong scans. Orochi literally says "Why... are there... defeated... among us?" He saw Awakened Cockroach and ready to kill him already.

You don't need a time frame to realize he's speaking slowly lol. Also even fodder monsters could understand what he was saying, yet the dude with the high speed and extraordinary senses can't hear it?

This isnt what i am getting at, what i am saying is that he would not have been fast enough to dodge even if he started to move beforehand.

FIrstly lets consider the range, Orochi is massive and his horn can basically grow to wherever he wants in the area while the cockroach cant move anywhere that would be outside of the range of his horns. Secondly, the speed of his speech is unrelated to how fast his horns would move otherwise they wouldnt be able to tag anybody at all

You completely misunderstand his ability here

Guess what, you completely ignored his ability. That's not what that is nor anything comparable to that.

He senses intent and dodges before the attack is even fired. He doesn't have to look at the opponent or anything.

Yeah i missed the dialogue for that part, but again, a blitz explains it all. His senses couldnt even detect intent before he was killed

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

What if they're an Oni maid filled with instinct and talent?

she did dodge an attack which is 60-135x her speed

 

[MrTayman616]

Yeah i missed the dialogue for that part, but again, a blitz explains it all. His senses couldnt even detect intent before he was killed

Dude, That dialogue already shows his intent. Blitz simply doesn't explain this situation.

His ability isn't dodge an attack via senses after they are fired but dodging it beforehand.

This isnt what i am getting at, what i am saying is that he would not have been fast enough to dodge even if he started to move beforehand.

FIrstly lets consider the range, Orochi is massive and his horn can basically grow to wherever he wants in the area while the cockroach cant move anywhere that would be outside of the range of his horns. Secondly, the speed of his speech is unrelated to how fast his horns would move otherwise they wouldnt be able to tag anybody at all

Like i said, you misunderstand his ability.

Awakened Cockroach doesn't dodge an attack after it's fired. He dodges before it's fired. He senses the intent. Orochi had already shown his intent clearly and was ready to kill him which he did a panel later. He had to move away before Orochi started his attack.

So it's not a matter of range or speed at all. I'm not claiming Awakened Cockroach is fast enough to dodge Orochi's attacks normally either.

(sry for wrong order, using phone)

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

OP looks good to me.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Dude, That dialogue already shows his intent. Blitz simply doesn't explain this situation.

His ability isn't dodge an attack via senses after they are fired but dodging it beforehand.

Like i said, you misunderstand his ability.

Awakened Cockroach doesn't dodge an attack after it's fired. He dodges before it's fired. He senses the intent. Orochi had already shown his intent clearly and was ready to kill him which he did a panel later. He had to move away before Orochi started his attack.

So it's not a matter of range or speed at all. I'm not claiming Awakened Cockroach is fast enough to dodge Orochi's attacks normally either.

(sry for wrong order, using phone)

I guess i am okay with it then, although it still feels like he could have just blitzed him as soon as his intent was clear (since he just asked a question and then his tentacles grew) making it impossible for cockroach to dodge

 

[Damage3245]

Like i said, you misunderstand his ability.

Awakened Cockroach doesn't dodge an attack after it's fired. He dodges before it's fired. He senses the intent. Orochi had already shown his intent clearly and was ready to kill him which he did a panel later. He had to move away before Orochi started his attack.

So it's not a matter of range or speed at all. I'm not claiming Awakened Cockroach is fast enough to dodge Orochi's attacks normally either.

(sry for wrong order, using phone)

If a human told another human from a short distance away that they were going to shoot them (making their intent known) and the other person started moving.... They doesn't necessarily mean they can avoid a bullet, right? Foresight, or precognition, or instincts, or enhanced senses still won't guarantee you can evade all attacks in existence.

 

[MrTayman616]

If a human told another human from a short distance away that they were going to shoot them (making their intent known) and the other person started moving.... They doesn't necessarily mean they can avoid a bullet, right? Foresight, or precognition, or instincts, or enhanced senses still won't guarantee you can evade all attacks in existence.

Yes, though this isn't the case here as this isn't a matter of "he failed to dodge" but that he didn't even try to do anything. He was completely caught off guard, only realizing the situation after he was hit. This isn't a case of blitzing the opponent or failing to dodge.

He had to start his movement before Orochi started his attack (Like while he was talking slowly etc. where he showed his hostility which he clearly had the time to do so) but he didn't. And was surprised that he was attacked, even though he had to knew about it even before he was attacked.

 

[Damage3245]

I think we're just at an impasse on this point so I'll wait for other staff members.

 

[Kachon123]

I think we're just at an impasse on this point so I'll wait for other staff members.

Could you @ Qawsedf, Maverick, and/or FinePoint?

 

[Damage3245]

@Qawsedf234 @Maverick_Zero_X @FinePoint Could you evaluate this thread when you have time? There's been some discussion and differing views on one of the proposed abilities.

 

[FinePoint]

@Qawsedf234 @Maverick_Zero_X @FinePoint Could you evaluate this thread when you have time? There's been some discussion and differing views on one of the proposed abilities.

I agree with you regarding Orochi.
The rest is probably fine.

 

[MrTayman616]

I agree with you regarding Orochi.

Could you explain please? (I don't wanna be stuck at it later)

 

[FinePoint]

Could you explain please? (I don't wanna be stuck at it later)

It seems most likely to me that it was Orochi being simply so much stronger and faster which surprised him and/or just the fact he decided to kill him over one mistake.

That he negated his senses seems unsupported and/or a random and far too specific assumption.
Also, contextually, Orochi shouldn't need to use any hax to kill random monsters.
It also seems out of character for Orochi to think his senses would even be an obstacle worth considering.

 

[MrTayman616]

It seems most likely to me that it was Orochi being simply so much stronger and faster which surprised him and/or just the fact he decided to kill him over one mistake.

But that wouldn't work. Awakened Cockroach doesn't dodge the attack after it is fired but dodges before the attack is fired. Even if he gets hit, he had to try dodging. Especially in this situation as Orochi had shown his intent way before attacking him. (He had to start running away while Orochi was talking which he had the time to do so). So the point isn't that he got hit. It's that he didn't attempt anything even before Orochi started his attack.

In the end, no matter how strong and faster he is(even 100000x or so), Awakened Cockroach had to start moving away while Orochi was talking there, Before he started the attack. (Sure, Orochi wouldn't still fail to hit but that's not the problem here)

That he negated his senses seems unsupported and/or a random and far too specific assumption.

Apart from Awakened Cockroach, Same happened with Garou. Garou is on a level where he can fight accurately while sleeping and has shown to dodge many surprise attack/attacks from blind points with instinct even when he wasn't aware of the enemy.

Also, contextually, Orochi shouldn't need to use any hax to kill random monsters.
It seems out of character for Orochi to think his senses would even be an obstacle worth considering.

I'm not claiming it to be some ability that he purposely uses against opponents he decides.

Awakened Cockroach can't sense Orochi's hostility even though he was supposed to be able to automatically. I don't know the method, but at the very least, it's clear that his abilities didn't work against Orochi.

 

[Damage3245]

But that wouldn't work. Awakened Cockroach doesn't dodge the attack after it is fired but dodges before the attack is fired. Even if he gets hit, he had to try dodging. Especially in this situation as Orochi had shown his intent way before attacking him. (He had to start running away while Orochi was talking which he had the time to do so). So the point isn't that he got hit. It's that he didn't attempt anything even before Orochi started his attack.

In the end, no matter how strong and faster he is(even 100000x or so), Awakened Cockroach had to start moving away while Orochi was talking there, Before he started the attack. (Sure, Orochi wouldn't still fail to hit but that's not the problem here)

The biggest issue with that is Awakened Cockroach is off-screen prior to us seeing him be hit. We only see the aftermath; we don't see what he was doing before getting hit.

Maybe he started moving for all we know but could only make it an inch before getting pierced; him being surprised can simply be attributed to being surprised Orochi is so fast or being surprised that there's a massive horn stabbing him in the chest and his realization caught up to his instincts.

Apart from Awakened Cockroach, Same happened with Garou. Garou is on a level where he can fight accurately while sleeping and has shown to dodge many surprise attack/attacks from blind points with instinct even when he wasn't aware of the enemy.

Garou did dodge Orochi's horn. It was the follow-up attack that hit him.