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- #41
Writing things on paper and creating specific stories, then making those chains of events unfold, is something that goes beyond mere Fate and should also be attributed to Plot.
And how did you end up here, my little Sam?
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Order is a Script/Plot/Story
- Thread starter DuyVoldigoad
- Start date
And how did you end up here, my little Sam?
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Upgrade for the Gods ability. Maou Gakuin
There will be more upgrade in future, be prepared Plot manipulation for order and acausality type 1 or 4 for gods ( Order is the script of the world, and the meta-fate. Like theater perfomance, the world just follow the script mentioned above, every comedies and tragedies is follow the script...
The QnA can be misleading your thought if you don't look at the whole picture because it sure is used in a metaphorical sense wayy too much. But when you review the old thread you will see that it is not metaphorical at all but a mere confirmation
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- #45
What do you mean by that? Be specific. If you're claiming it's Fate Manipulation, then provide actual arguments to support that position.
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Fate Manipulation doesn't involve the use of the word "script" as this wiki defines it so it's not
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Literally instant death verse but ok
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- #48
"What's so funny about that?"
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Well that's ID and this is MGK plus we got the Author's statement reaffirming this
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What’s the big issue with this? How much more qualification does one need to get plot related abilities?
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- #51
As shown in the post and the citations I provided, that should already be sufficient.
Order is explicitly stated to be a script and to govern the world (which is a characteristic of plot manipulation). Furthermore, the destruction of Order is described as rewriting a script on a sheet of paper. Those qualifications alone should be enough for it to qualify.
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Yeah not really seeing plot hax here. If this is all you got for new evidence on Order being plot hax then count me for disagreeing.
Rikimarox2
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There's also this apparently;
Although I'm still personally not seeing it, and see it more as some good/higher level fate manipulation, since the scans seem to indicate that. Doesn't help that a lot of them are metaphorical or flowery in nature, or the fact that the author's answer kind of just agrees that it is a metaphor rather than actual narrative existing in the world.
Though I'm not knowledgeable about the verse, so eh.
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I've seen these scans and arguments in older threads, my mind hasn't changed since. It's very clearly metaphor for the state of the world and nothing about it is ever elaborated to be a literal plot hax ability, plus conflating controlling fate to controlling the plot with no actual scans that they're stated to be one and the same in the verse is a massive stretch.
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- #55
It has already been stated that Order is a script, and it also possesses governing properties similar to those of a script. Therefore, it should be accepted as either equivalent to or outright being a script (plot). If there are no further contradictions, then we should accept that interpretation rather than dismissing it as a mere metaphor. In fact, not only is there no contradiction, but it is explicitly affirmed to be one, and it possesses all the necessary characteristics, including governing and influencing the entirety of reality and the events that unfold within it.
And I'm not equating fate with story. However, can you name a single instance of fate that is explicitly stated to be a script, where destroying that order is equivalent to rewriting the entirety of reality on a sheet of paper, and where those who perform such acts are described as playwrights? There simply isn't one.
Moreover, the series states this quite clearly. Even the author refers to it as a script, so why are you treating it as a metaphor? If you want to argue that it is merely metaphorical, then the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that. The text explicitly identifies it as a script and consistently attributes script-like properties to it, rather than presenting it as ordinary fate.
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None of your scans say Order is a script, just a statement about things being according to the script of the world. Also it being equivalent to the plot is a Hasty Generalization when all the scans you’re using is not only metaphorical as hell, but the only new evidence you use is an interview where someone brings up a metaphorical comparison to the creator.
If it’s not presenting it as fate then why are half of the scans that are being pushed on this thread using statements of Fate being dictated? You’re not paying attention to the full picture here. If this is all you got then I’m just gonna tag the staff to get their opinion on this and conclude this since nothing new has been brought up to change the argument.
@Emirp sumitpo @Planck69 @Vietthai96 @Qawsedf234 @Random-Helper323 Your opinion here is appreciated
If it’s not presenting it as fate then why are half of the scans that are being pushed on this thread using statements of Fate being dictated? You’re not paying attention to the full picture here. If this is all you got then I’m just gonna tag the staff to get their opinion on this and conclude this since nothing new has been brought up to change the argument.
@Emirp sumitpo @Planck69 @Vietthai96 @Qawsedf234 @Random-Helper323 Your opinion here is appreciated
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I think that's not enough.
Rikimarox2
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The only thing that like, actually says a Script rather than just "is like a script" is this;
But like... not only is that also a common characteristic/metaphor/usage of a word for fate (at least in the stuff I read, such as Wang Wei), but all the other scans kind of just obviously imply it is a metaphor;
1. "Finally, let's give the closing words and bring down the curtain of the long stage. Destruction is God's salvation. If things that should perish do not perish, nothing will come after them. It was a mistake in the first place to distort it with one's own self-interest. It is retribution of karma (it is fate/it is cause and effect)"
2. "According to Deepening God, the world seems to be the stage of a theater for the gods, and you are, after all, the protagonist (main actor/main character) assigned by the impresario based on favoritism. The role is very admirable, but the actor is just ham (ham actor=unskilled actor who overacts)"
3. "The Spiritual Divine Sword is a holy sword to destroy you. Even the destined fate can be cut off. Two thousand years later, I cut off the fate of you being reincarnated as a Tyrannical Demon King."
2. "According to Deepening God, the world seems to be the stage of a theater for the gods, and you are, after all, the protagonist (main actor/main character) assigned by the impresario based on favoritism. The role is very admirable, but the actor is just ham (ham actor=unskilled actor who overacts)"
3. "The Spiritual Divine Sword is a holy sword to destroy you. Even the destined fate can be cut off. Two thousand years later, I cut off the fate of you being reincarnated as a Tyrannical Demon King."
Like... the first one metaphorically talk about curtains "of the long stage", but then later on directly mentions Karma (ie cause and effect/possibly fate).
The second scan just straight up says "Well, it seems like the world is a stage of a theater", ie it's a metaphor, not a direct statement of it being an actual script/theater. Hell, even the whole "you are the protagonist" stuff is commonly seen in other verses and commonly attributed to Fate. And it just doesn't debunk it being Fate stuff, since you can be fated to be the "protagonist of the world" ie the one who is destined to achieve something (whatever it is in this verse). Xianxia novels especially have a lot of this.
And the last scan, which is used as a justification for it being a script, directly states that they "cut off the fate of you", which is like... brother.
How are these somehow enough for it being "plot manipulation", when we do not have any actual feats or statement of their existing an actual narrative in the universe that is fundamental to the characters, or there being a structure similar to a story, is beyond me. All of these, all of them, are just metaphors for fate.
Like, you'd expect more stuff if this shit was talking about meta-stuff like plot manipulation, especially for a novel spanning seemingly hundreds of chapters, but no, the best we're getting is "It is like a script!", "It is a theater!", etc...
And the author's answer alone should be enough to debunk the whole plot shenanigans. The person who asked the question said "Would it be fair to say that the Misfits.... So to speak, writers who shape their own preferences?", and the author directly says "That's a good way of putting it!"
So to speak, which is defined in some dictionaries as; "Used to indicate that one is using words in an unusual or figurative way rather than a literal way
How is this not considered metaphorical?
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This does sound metaphorical to me. I can see how someone might get a larger meaning from it, but this thing about writing one's own story is used metaphorically pretty often, especially when it's an influential figure in significant events.
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Youngwolf-0.1
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This is still an overreach from metaphorical framing.
Even if “Order” is described using terms like script, stage, or story, that alone does not establish literal plot/story structure under vsb standards. Those are still metaphorical frameworks used to describe fate/order mechanics, not proof that reality is functioning as an actual narrative layer that can be manipulated as plot.
Even if “Order” is described using terms like script, stage, or story, that alone does not establish literal plot/story structure under vsb standards. Those are still metaphorical frameworks used to describe fate/order mechanics, not proof that reality is functioning as an actual narrative layer that can be manipulated as plot.
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- #62
Why isn't it a metaphor? Because once the text moves beyond saying "like" or "as if" and proceeds to explicitly affirm the equivalence, there is no longer any contradiction. Do you understand what I mean?
And the statement about "cutting off fate" is completely normal, since Order is fate as well—but it is also plot/script.
Furthermore, it's not just the argument that Order = script. The scans I provided are themselves evidence that Order = script. They do not merely compare Order to a script in a figurative sense; they explicitly describe it with script-like properties and functions. If the text consistently identifies Order as a script, treats reality as something governed by it, and describes its destruction as rewriting reality itself, then dismissing it as a metaphor requires evidence rather than assumption.
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- #63
My evidence is already sufficient to demonstrate that the script is a form of narration written onto pages, creating stories, and that those responsible for it are effectively playwrights or scriptwriters.
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- #64
I already provided an explanation, though.
Misfits are described throughout the series as beings who exist outside the framework of Order, and Anos and Graham are among those beings. Not only that, but both of them are capable of destroying Order itself, and the author explicitly equates this with rewriting the world's script on a sheet of paper.
That alone serves as evidence that the script is equivalent to Order.
Furthermore, the statement that "everything unfolds according to the world's script" refers to Eques' mechanism of Order in WN 455, which already establishes Order = plot/script.
Or do you need an explicit statement saying "Order is a script"? The context already demonstrates it. Why should such a statement be necessary? And when the series does make direct statements or attributes script-like properties to Order, people dismiss it as a metaphor despite the fact that it fulfills all the relevant characteristics.
If the context consistently portrays Order as something that governs reality, dictates events, functions as the world's script, and can be rewritten through its destruction, then treating it as merely metaphorical requires justification rather than assumption.
"
The author then confirms this interpretation, stating that, from the perspective of the gods, Anos and Graham are playwrights or scriptwriters. Rather than simply following the roles assigned to them, they rewrite the script itself.
The implication is that Anos and the Misfits are not merely individuals who refuse to follow the gods' script—they are capable of rewriting it. In Maou Gakuin, the term "Misfit" refers to beings who exist outside Order or have been rejected by it. Both Anos and Graham are Misfits, and they are also beings who destroy and overturn Orders. This is precisely why the author describes them as "playwrights"
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- #65
A metaphor occurs when there is a contradiction with the literal interpretation. For example, let's say I claim that I am Chico because I share certain similarities with Chico.
In that case, you can only argue that the statement is false or metaphorical if you can point out a contradiction—such as the fact that every human being is a distinct individual, meaning a person can only be themselves and not someone else.
However, if you cannot demonstrate such a contradiction, then I have grounds to argue that I am Chico based on those similarities. The burden would be on you to explain why the statement cannot be taken literally rather than simply assuming that it is metaphorical.
Youngwolf-0.1
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Even if “Order” is described as a script written on pages and beings are referred to as playwrights or scriptwriters, this is still metaphorical narrative framing, not proof that reality literally functions as a written story that can be edited as text or plot.
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- #67
That's funny. Why wouldn't it already exist? The very fact that it can be edited and altered means it has to exist beforehand. Do you understand?
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That isn't the definition of a metaphor.
Actually the burden of proof would be on you to prove you are Chico, whoever that is.
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- #69
Exactly. If I say that I am Chico and point out the similarities between us, then that's already enough for me to claim that I am Chico.
If you want to argue otherwise, the burden is on you to demonstrate why that claim is wrong. Until then, I can maintain that I am Chico.
Similarly, Order = Script. It is explicitly described as a script and possesses the characteristics of one, arranging and directing the entire world like a written scenario. You have not provided any counter-evidence showing that this interpretation is incorrect.
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You need to prove that the statement from Word of God about a character writing his own story and defying the plans of gods is proof that they're literally manipulating a plot, and not just them defying the plans of those gods.
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- #71
It's already in my thread. I only need to prove that Order = Plot. If I can demonstrate that it governs reality and is explicitly described as a script/plot, that's sufficient.
Why would I need to prove that it literally writes a story when the author already describes it as writing a script? They're essentially the same thing.
The burden isn't on me to prove that it's some ordinary form of fate when the narrative directly refers to it as a script. If Order is stated to govern the world and is portrayed as something that can be rewritten like a script, then equating it with Plot is a perfectly reasonable conclusion.
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Eh, viet on cord already said he disagrees as it needs confirmation of a meta-fictional element and not just name drops so, OP yeah, I'm switching to disagree
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???
You agree it's described as a script written on pages and the beings who preside over it are seen as writers, but you still call it metaphorical??
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That's what has been implied, elaborated upon, and highlighted multiple times in the story. The only problem was that people interpreted it as fate manipulation due to certain instances that weren't even contradictory. Character's in a story are normatively bound to the fate outlined by their narrative or plot.
Now the author as fixed that issue by explicitly stating it's the narrative or script
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VOLUME 4
“Thy circumstances are not my concern,” he said, brushing aside the student’s words. “Whether thou believest matters not. Everything thou believed was a fabricated reality. Royalty is not superior. Thou dost not have any special privileges. The Demon King of Tyranny has requested that all be treated as equals.”
The student clenched his teeth.
“The curtains have long fallen. The role of royalty and the Royalists is no longer necessary to Dilhade’s future. Trying to perform that role once the play has ended isn’t merely ignorant—it’s absurd.”
“Thy circumstances are not my concern,” he said, brushing aside the student’s words. “Whether thou believest matters not. Everything thou believed was a fabricated reality. Royalty is not superior. Thou dost not have any special privileges. The Demon King of Tyranny has requested that all be treated as equals.”
The student clenched his teeth.
“The curtains have long fallen. The role of royalty and the Royalists is no longer necessary to Dilhade’s future. Trying to perform that role once the play has ended isn’t merely ignorant—it’s absurd.”
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"How can viewing the world as a stage play, or as content written on a sheet of paper, not involve metafictional elements?"
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By the way, do you have a Discord link? I need to join and discuss this with VietThai there
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