This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
"You come to us, piteous archetypes, seeking freedom from your scripts, as if knowing your lines would grant you the power to rewrite them."
The above is from God of War and its Norns talking about the nature of fate. Like, this is just a very common way of talking about destiny. Just name dropping narrative terms doesn't grant Plot Manipulation, especially when greater context refers to it as fate, which in this case it does.
"You come to us, piteous archetypes, seeking freedom from your scripts, as if knowing your lines would grant you the power to rewrite them."
The above is from God of War and its Norns talking about the nature of fate. Like, this is just a very common way of talking about destiny. Just name dropping narrative terms doesn't grant Plot Manipulation, especially when greater context refers to it as fate, which in this case it does.
When seeing those eyes, people would immediately ask themselves: Does fate really exist? Is our life from birth to death already set like a written story? If so, who is the author? And how can we escape such a shackle?
-- The Son of Destiny is essentially the protagonist of this world.
"If what you say is true, how could I kill a Son of Destiny?" As a transmigrator, Chu Mo knew how cockroach-like the survival of protagonists can be. Even if someone 10 realms higher than them comes to kill them, some random old man that the protagonist once thought was a beggar and offered him food will turn out to be a terrifying powerhouse and come rescue him.
This is how unreasonable some protagonists can be.
--
Zhou Shu opened the book that taught on how to become a protagonist:
"Fate is all-encompassing, and one of the ways that it controls all living things in existence is through Luck. Many cultivators do not believe in luck or think it's just a matter of probability. However, that is not true.
"Luck is one of the many fundamental concepts that govern reality, that dictates the functions or roles of Heaven and Earth. As such, it is not only real but also has rules and regulations.
--
(Luck is just a subset of Fate, ie its just a small part of it)
--
There is no way that this is a coincidence. The way that the universe functions has established rules and methods. Everything is concise, everything has order. So, is [Order] another part of Fate?
'The way that plants grow, the change of the seasons, the movement of the sun and the stars, and even the evolution of life in the form of cultivation can be a form of order. This is also the way that fate determined its control over all things in the universe.
Fate controls all things in the universe.
The above is just for one series, this guy; Wang Wei, and the above I gathered in like, 5 minutes, and are not even close to the peak of it (Ie how Fate encompasses everything, dictates every single action from past to the future, encompasses Time and Space, and even Order). And in there, Fate is explictly stated to be like a "written story", where the one controlling it is the "author", and all that other metaphorical nonsense. Oh and, you know, the thing you mentioned about protagonists, and how they cannot be defeated since bs will just happen because they are the protagonists of the world.
All of this, and it's still just Fate Manip. Obviously, there are more (I believe Xianxia verses have a lot of this, so you can check them out), but this is just one from a verse I read. Oh and this is not even close to the amount of times "Protagonists" are mentioned, I'm talking like, 80+ times. Then there is the whole "the world is a chessboard" or "everything is like a game and with getting a Fate Seed you would become a true NPC and not controlled by fate" and yadda yadda, but they aren't important (metaphors).
Essa é apenas a sua interpretação, considerando-a como mera obra do destino. Por que não considerar que a Ordem pode ser tanto trama quanto destino ao mesmo tempo?
"Vocês vêm até nós, arquétipos lamentáveis, buscando se libertar de seus roteiros, como se conhecer suas falas lhes desse o poder de reescrevê-las."
O trecho acima é de God of War e suas Nornas, que discutem a natureza do destino. É apenas uma forma comum de falar sobre predestinação. Simplesmente citar termos narrativos não garante manipulação da trama, especialmente quando um contexto maior se refere a isso como destino, como neste caso.
Ao verem esses olhos, as pessoas imediatamente se perguntariam: o destino realmente existe? Nossa vida, do nascimento à morte, já está traçada como uma história predestinada? Se sim, quem é o autor? E como podemos escapar de tal grilhão?
-- O Filho do Destino é essencialmente o protagonista deste mundo.
"Se o que você diz é verdade, como eu poderia matar um Filho do Destino?" Como um transmigrador, Chu Mo sabia o quão frágil era a sobrevivência dos protagonistas . Mesmo que alguém dez reinos acima deles viesse para matá-los, um velho qualquer que o protagonista um dia pensou ser um mendigo e lhe ofereceu comida, se revelaria uma força terrível e viria resgatá-lo.
É assim que alguns protagonistas podem ser irracionais.
--
Zhou Shu abriu o livro que ensinava como se tornar um protagonista :
"O destino é abrangente, e uma das maneiras pelas quais ele controla todos os seres vivos existentes é através da sorte. Muitos praticantes não acreditam em sorte ou pensam que é apenas uma questão de probabilidade. No entanto, isso não é verdade."
"A sorte é um dos muitos conceitos fundamentais que governam a realidade, que ditam as funções ou os papéis do Céu e da Terra. Como tal, não só é real, como também possui regras e regulamentos."
--
(A sorte é apenas um subconjunto do destino, ou seja, é apenas uma pequena parte dele)
--
Não há como isso ser uma coincidência. O funcionamento do universo segue regras e métodos estabelecidos. Tudo é conciso, tudo tem ordem. Então, será que [a Ordem] também faz parte do Destino?
'A forma como as plantas crescem, a mudança das estações, o movimento do sol e das estrelas, e até mesmo a evolução da vida na forma de cultivo podem ser uma forma de ordem. É também assim que o destino determinou seu controle sobre todas as coisas no universo.'
O destino controla todas as coisas no universo.
O que eu disse acima se refere apenas a uma série, essa aqui: Wang Wei, e tudo o que compilei em uns 5 minutos, nem chega perto do ápice (ou seja, como o Destino abrange tudo, dita cada ação do passado ao futuro, engloba o Tempo e o Espaço, e até mesmo a Ordem). E lá, o Destino é explicitamente descrito como uma "história escrita", onde quem a controla é o "autor", e todas essas outras metáforas sem sentido. Ah, e você sabe, aquela coisa que você mencionou sobre os protagonistas , e como eles não podem ser derrotados porque coisas absurdas simplesmente acontecem porque eles são os protagonistas do mundo.
E mesmo com tudo isso, ainda é só manipulação do destino. Obviamente, existem mais exemplos (acredito que os versos de Xianxia tenham muitos assim, então você pode conferir), mas este é apenas um exemplo de um verso que li. Ah, e isso nem se compara à quantidade de vezes que "protagonistas" são mencionados; estou falando de mais de 80 vezes. Aí tem toda aquela coisa de "o mundo é um tabuleiro de xadrez" ou "tudo é como um jogo e, ao obter uma Semente do Destino, você se tornaria um verdadeiro NPC e não seria controlado pelo destino" e blá blá blá, mas isso não é importante (são apenas metáforas).
When seeing those eyes, people would immediately ask themselves: Does fate really exist? Is our life from birth to death already set like a written story? If so, who is the author? And how can we escape such a shackle?
-- The Son of Destiny is essentially the protagonist of this world.
"If what you say is true, how could I kill a Son of Destiny?" As a transmigrator, Chu Mo knew how cockroach-like the survival of protagonists can be. Even if someone 10 realms higher than them comes to kill them, some random old man that the protagonist once thought was a beggar and offered him food will turn out to be a terrifying powerhouse and come rescue him.
This is how unreasonable some protagonists can be.
--
Zhou Shu opened the book that taught on how to become a protagonist:
"Fate is all-encompassing, and one of the ways that it controls all living things in existence is through Luck. Many cultivators do not believe in luck or think it's just a matter of probability. However, that is not true.
"Luck is one of the many fundamental concepts that govern reality, that dictates the functions or roles of Heaven and Earth. As such, it is not only real but also has rules and regulations.
--
(Luck is just a subset of Fate, ie its just a small part of it)
--
There is no way that this is a coincidence. The way that the universe functions has established rules and methods. Everything is concise, everything has order. So, is [Order] another part of Fate?
'The way that plants grow, the change of the seasons, the movement of the sun and the stars, and even the evolution of life in the form of cultivation can be a form of order. This is also the way that fate determined its control over all things in the universe.
Fate controls all things in the universe.
The above is just for one series, this guy; Wang Wei, and the above I gathered in like, 5 minutes, and are not even close to the peak of it (Ie how Fate encompasses everything, dictates every single action from past to the future, encompasses Time and Space, and even Order). And in there, Fate is explictly stated to be like a "written story", where the one controlling it is the "author", and all that other metaphorical nonsense. Oh and, you know, the thing you mentioned about protagonists, and how they cannot be defeated since bs will just happen because they are the protagonists of the world.
All of this, and it's still just Fate Manip. Obviously, there are more (I believe Xianxia verses have a lot of this, so you can check them out), but this is just one from a verse I read. Oh and this is not even close to the amount of times "Protagonists" are mentioned, I'm talking like, 80+ times. Then there is the whole "the world is a chessboard" or "everything is like a game and with getting a Fate Seed you would become a true NPC and not controlled by fate" and yadda yadda, but they aren't important (metaphors).
Eh, viet on cord already said he disagrees as it needs confirmation of a meta-fictional element and not just name drops so, OP yeah, I'm switching to disagree
?????. Wut?
Metafiction, is one way to get plot hax, or you can prove that there are literal underlying narration that govern reality.
Anyway i'm mostly neutral, i can see the interpretation of Order being some kind of meta-narration that governs reality, but the opposition isn't wrong about looking at this as metaphor to describe the ability to control people destiny, fate, etc....
?????. Quê?
A metaficção é uma forma de manipular a trama, ou você pode provar que existem narrativas subjacentes literais que governam a realidade.
De qualquer forma, sou praticamente neutro. Consigo entender a interpretação de "Ordem" como uma espécie de metanarrativa que governa a realidade, mas a oposição não está errada ao ver isso como uma metáfora para descrever a capacidade de controlar o destino das pessoas, o fado, etc.
?????. Wut?
Metafiction, is one way to get plot hax, or you can prove that there are literal underlying narration that govern reality.
Anyway i'm mostly neutral, i can see the interpretation of Order being some kind of meta-narration that governs reality, but the opposition isn't wrong about looking at this as metaphor to describe the ability to control people destiny, fate, etc....
You know, I said this same thing. A character's fate is inherently bound to the writings of the plot so there's absolutely no issue with referring to it as fate in certain instances.
When seeing those eyes, people would immediately ask themselves: Does fate really exist? Is our life from birth to death already set like a written story? If so, who is the author? And how can we escape such a shackle?
-- The Son of Destiny is essentially the protagonist of this world.
"If what you say is true, how could I kill a Son of Destiny?" As a transmigrator, Chu Mo knew how cockroach-like the survival of protagonists can be. Even if someone 10 realms higher than them comes to kill them, some random old man that the protagonist once thought was a beggar and offered him food will turn out to be a terrifying powerhouse and come rescue him.
This is how unreasonable some protagonists can be.
--
Zhou Shu opened the book that taught on how to become a protagonist:
"Fate is all-encompassing, and one of the ways that it controls all living things in existence is through Luck. Many cultivators do not believe in luck or think it's just a matter of probability. However, that is not true.
"Luck is one of the many fundamental concepts that govern reality, that dictates the functions or roles of Heaven and Earth. As such, it is not only real but also has rules and regulations.
--
(Luck is just a subset of Fate, ie its just a small part of it)
--
There is no way that this is a coincidence. The way that the universe functions has established rules and methods. Everything is concise, everything has order. So, is [Order] another part of Fate?
'The way that plants grow, the change of the seasons, the movement of the sun and the stars, and even the evolution of life in the form of cultivation can be a form of order. This is also the way that fate determined its control over all things in the universe.
Fate controls all things in the universe.
The above is just for one series, this guy; Wang Wei, and the above I gathered in like, 5 minutes, and are not even close to the peak of it (Ie how Fate encompasses everything, dictates every single action from past to the future, encompasses Time and Space, and even Order). And in there, Fate is explictly stated to be like a "written story", where the one controlling it is the "author", and all that other metaphorical nonsense. Oh and, you know, the thing you mentioned about protagonists, and how they cannot be defeated since bs will just happen because they are the protagonists of the world.
All of this, and it's still just Fate Manip. Obviously, there are more (I believe Xianxia verses have a lot of this, so you can check them out), but this is just one from a verse I read. Oh and this is not even close to the amount of times "Protagonists" are mentioned, I'm talking like, 80+ times. Then there is the whole "the world is a chessboard" or "everything is like a game and with getting a Fate Seed you would become a true NPC and not controlled by fate" and yadda yadda, but they aren't important (metaphors).
I have a statement that somewhat leans more toward a literal interpretation rather than a figurative (metaphorical) one.
The reason is that the author also confirms that the Spirit God is a serious and intelligent individual. He is the one who claims that the world is merely a play of the gods and states that everything follows the world's plot.
A serious and intelligent person would naturally be more inclined to use words literally rather than figuratively. Therefore, this serves as a small piece of supporting evidence that those statements should be taken literally rather than metaphorically.
If necessary, I can provide proof that the author explicitly confirms this.
You know, I said this same thing. A character's fate is inherently bound to the writings of the plot so there's absolutely no issue with referring to it as fate in certain instances.
Chopped ahh thread.
Out of 10 instances, Orders are called fate 8 times and portrayed as such, and plot for 2 times just to make readers to understand how fate is scripted.
At that point you can't argue that "it's plot just in the name of fate" but it's quite the opposite where it's fate which is called script in a fancy manner to show how it has similarities like a script on being rigid, absolute and predetermines how your future will unravel.
The scripts of fate shall befall upon you, Misfit...ahh
