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Ouma Kurogane vs Kessler

Schnee One said:
He usually uses it eventually
Click to expand...
I mean..."eventually" is not the right way to put it. Ouma vs Touka:

Ouma says "you're not worthy to be my opponent"

Touka: Try me

So Ouma says he'll be his opponent if she can graze him.

Touka with her strongest move manages to make an actual graze on him.

Ouma: Good! Kusanagi.

So it is not out of character for him to start the fight with Kusanagi. Overall it's pretty in character. Hell, when he first attacked Hagun he literally used it 4 times within the span of like 5 minutes or so against 3 different people (Touka, Stella and Nene).
 
Would he use it against an opponent who can't hurt him in the slightest? His natural dura plus shields make it seem like Kessler will struggle to even make a dent.
 
He wanted to see all of Stella's and Ikki's capabilities. Stella because she is a fellow A rank and Ikki because he somehow survives against higher ranked opponents constantly. He just one-shots everyone else.
 
He stomped Stella though, and he doesn't lead with it in their rematch

Same with both of Ikki's fights.

Hell Touka he didn't lead with either, that was after they fought briefly and he realized Touka was weak
 
He did open up with it against Stella in their first match. And the reason he didn't use Kusanagi to open up the 2nd time:

That was Ouma's Device, Ryuuzume.

"First is to see how much you have grown from back then. I will confirm it with my own sword."

As for Ikki, he deems ikki an unworthy opponent due to him using "trickery" as soon as he acknowledged Ikki's trickery as his strength he used Kusanagi.

And wdym against Touka he fought?

Unlike the others, Touka's body had not suffered a single wound. However, she was no match for Ouma.

After Stella and the others escaped, Touka considered the power of the remaining members, and challenged him knowing that she was the only one who could serve as his opponent, but to her surprise Ouma had put away his Device Ryuuzume and stood there defenselessly. And more than that—

"I have no interest in turning my blade against a girl weaker than myself. If you wish to fight no matter what—one stroke is enough. Try to make a mark on my body. If you can do so, I'll be your opponent."

As soon as Stella left Ouma had put his blade away and did the "mark my body and i'll fight you".
 
So how will this work against Kessler? At first glance he's just an old man, and his AP won't be enough to even budge him.
 
He did use it their first match against eachother, that's true (Although for some reason Stella didn't die instantly)
 
PTSOXMONKEY99 said:
So how will this work against Kessler? At first glance he's just an old man, and his AP won't be enough to even budge him.
Click to expand...
Well there's a reason it's called "willing to kill". I don't think "i won't fight you" is even a mindset someone can have here.

@Schnee

May need to re-read but im too lazy and busy with Kenichi to do that now. But if no other explanation is there its just PIS i guess, similar to the reason why Ikki could tank a hit from DS Stella and Katharterio Salamandra and SOMEHOW still get up.
 
Touka and Ikki didn't get one shotted either, but I doubt a wiki's accuracy sometimes

What was the reasoning for it being comparable to dragon spirit?

Also why is Tohka's strongest attack only 7B if it grazed Ouma
 
What? When did Ikki ever get hit by Kusanagi?

Should be somewhat comparable to Katharterio Salamandra. I can't really find any better scaling for it.

Cus she specifically says "it couldn't even be called a wound"
 
I mean, it's called "in-character but willing to kill". If he'd underestimate Kessler in character then he'd do so here as well.
 
The Wright Way said:
I mean, it's called "in-character but willing to kill". If he'd underestimate Kessler in character then he'd do so here as well.
Click to expand...
Yes but his underestimation is literally "i won't even fight you cus you succ", it's not that he'll go easy on you. I don't think not wanting to fight is an option otherwise all pacifists would be impossible to put in debates.

@Schnee

Idk, he could tank hits from Dragon Spirit with the help of his wind. I'd feel weird to say his strongest ability would be way lower than his durabiity. There is honestly nothing else to scale it to. It's just his strongest noble art.
 
From your examples, it seems like Ouma is willing to let Kessler do his worst to see if he's even worth his time. He'll only use Kusanagi if he can even scratch him.

How does he usually handle weaker opponents who can't even make him budge? Does he still use Kusanagi? Or just use his normal attacks?
 
Nah, he only did that specifically for Touka.

He's one bloodlusted mofo otherwise. Against Grizzly, he just proceeded to cut his arms and crush his heart right away.
 
Hmm, so it's really a question of whether or not Kessler can hit him with a clone before he pops Kusanagi.

Given that Kessler will notice that he can tank his lightning, he'll be very quick to use his clones to serve as both pseudo-shields, distractions and attacks.

Was that dismemberment done with his normal attacks?
 
Dismemberment was with his normal attacks yes. But Ouma's far more likely to vacuum blade, kusanagi and oxygen opponents than he is to attack with a sword.

He also has Fuujin Kekkai which is basically just a tornado around him he uses to defend himself.
 
Besides using the clones isn't the end all be all. If Ouma notices the number increasing he'll be a ton more likely to use wind attacks and he will attack the clones if they get near, seeing as his blade will go through them is game over.
 
Schnee One said:
How will he know they're game over
Click to expand...
It's game over for them.

I said "if ouma attacks and sees his sword pass through them it is game over". Because he'll just wind nuke at that point.
 
Damn that means Kessler is at a disadvantage due to AP. Though he still has regen to help with any damage I guess. The wind blades seem dangerous but Kessler has plenty of experience with dodging projectiles and usually preferably to play the range game.

Oxygen drain seems dangerous since even Kessler needs to breathe, but his stamina should help since he only ever seems to get tired when using his strongest attack 3-4 times in a row. So it won't be an instant concern. Kusanagi is still a one-shot.

The tornado defense seems like a good counter to clones surrounding him, but Kessler has his own means of disrupting the air with shockwaves and ground pound. Plus, tk could potentially just pull him out from the shield (depending on the previous tk discussion)

I mean, clones are kinda Kesslers saving grace here. He can't damage Ouma through his High 7-A dura or his shields, so he only has mind hax clones to carry him. He has another dura neg move (Memory Inject), but he's not gonna use it here since he'll notice the insane dura gap and decide to play it safe and use range, and he only really uses the attack when his opponent is weakened or off guard.
 
Well true, but the more he dodges, the more serious Ouma becomes. Also Ouma is a very skilled fighter. He mastered the kurogane style as a child and left home because no one was worthy of fighting him, so dodging isn't gonna be a walk in the park.

Stamina has nothing to do with how long you can hold your breath. From the show, it's 10 minutes normally, 1 minute if you fight (how much time you have left after Ouma uses the oxygen ability.

You don't pull Ouma out of his shield. It's a magical barrier. Though even if he somehow did do something about it, Ouma starts blitzing.

Against the clones Ouma has a rather significant skill advantage as well as range advantage (his odachi is about 1 meter long i believe). So he would notice the clones aren't corporeal before they touch him (especially since he still has the barrier), which would mean GG for Ouma.

And all of these are under the assumption that Kusanagi won't come up as a first move, nor before the clones.

If not a stomp, this is heavily decisive for Ouma. I vote Ouma. You can argue on whether it's a stomp or not.
 
Well given SBA distance and Kessler ability to keep people from moving how he doesn't like via TK, it'll still be a challenge for both of them

Iirc, stamina does effect breathe holding. And just because it's 10 minutes for people on the show, but not for people with enhanced conditions and regen such as Conduits. These guys don't start becoming fatigued unless you overwhelm their regen via constant damage or they drain their energy pool.

I mean, what reason does he have to assume the clones should be avoided? He already knows that Kessler can't harm him, so why treat the clones as a threat? He won't know about the mind hax affect. There's also they're perception manipulation that will make even seeing them difficult. And seeing them is the only real way of detecting them since they make no noise or vibrations due to the fact that their made of energy.

Well if it's dubious whether or not he leads I don't think it's right to assume he leads.

Gonna stew on it before voting
 
It's game over for them.

I said "if ouma attacks and sees his sword pass through them it is game over". Because he'll just wind nuke at that point.

If he's making physical contact with his blade thatvwill kill him
 
Anyway

Stamina does have to do with breath holding, this is basic, the higher your stamina the longer you can hold your breath

Secondly, Ouma blitzing isntbreally an issue, Kessler has two passive forcefields and the AP difference isn't that high

Thirdly, nothing stops Kessler from dodging. It's an AoE attack and not much else
 
Though I guess before I continue we should see if the Mindhax clones will get past the wind armor as that's his only win con
 
Because hitting the clones, even if it's with a weapon, causes them to mindhax you. You'd need to hit them with a projectile to be safe.
 
I see. Anyway:

@PTSO

It's not 10 min for just "people" on the show. It's for Ikki Kurogane. Also regen doesn't really matter.

@Schnee

Blitzing is a problem. Cus the clones ain't doing shit to him.

If you mean Kusanagi, just no. Kusanagi is not only faster than Ouma, but it's a 50m long huge dragon, not a bullet. Without a significant speed difference it's not happening (which Kessler lacks).
 
If he strikes a clone with a sword he gets mindhaxed, that's the thing

Speed is Equal, it being faster then Ouma is useless, especially if Ouma uses it from 4KM away
 
Ouma won't need to use it from 4KM. He just needs to get close. I doubt Kessler will use his clones from 4km away either.

Ouma gets close enough, kusanagis, calls it a day.
 
Yes. Kessler will use his clones from 4 Kilometers away actually. That is totally in character for him.
 
Well you said it was 10 minutes for people on the show, so that's what I assumed. Context matters. Regen matter since it ensure that the damage that comes from lack of oxygen is mitigated, not enough to keep him alive, but enough to give a little extra time in comparison to someone without regen.

What's the width of the dragon? Cause with the SBA distance, Kessler should have the skill necessary to dodge. It's the AoE blast that is a concern.

And if we wanna get into speed amps, Kessler's flash step makes him move so fast that it appears that he's teleporting to people of comparable speed to him. He can even do this when fatally injured and in the process of dying.
 
Again what makes Kusanagi so hard to dodge, speed is Equal, and theattack having a massive AoE doesn't mean much to Kessler
 
It's not really "damage" as much as it is lack of ability to produce energy. Regen doesn't help because there is no oxygen to break down the carbohydrates into energy.

I'd assume several meters. Should be comparable or bigger to Stella's Katharterio Salamandra from ep 1.

@Schnee

Speed equal is for the same speed. If Ouma's Kusanagi is faster than him, even in speed equal it'll still be faster than him, it just won't be faster than Kessler's fastest projectile.
 
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