Persona 4 Revisions?

[DetectiVE899]

This blog makes some very good points about Persona 4's stats.

https://cinzero-fall2112.deviantart.com/journal/Persona-4-Debunks-733836917

 

[KinkiestSins]

1. I am skeptical with persona creation feats in general IE: Tartarus, P4 and P5 dungeons and if they scale, but tbh it is all we got for feats minus a few end games feats, otherwise the cast will be tier 9 at best.

2. I totally agree that High 6-A yu can be removed. No time frame for such a calc was given in game and is a blatant assumption. High 7-C is fair imo, but we should have a calc group member look at that calc before we jump into assumptions.

3. MHS for lightning is fair, it uses cloud to ground, which is our new standard and in general seems fine.


I would ask Matthew Schroeder and Dragonmasterxyz

I am fine with the second, neutral on the first. Against the third.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

The blog seems very informative, and I find myself agreeing with all points, tbh.

Multi-Continent Yu was very iffy anyways.

Though, let the mods/admins take over, they'll know for sure, maybe.

 

[Thomas_The_hype_Engine]

Feats from dungeon creation are definitely out. Fog feat does indeed lack a timeframe, shold be recalced using the condensation method, I've already argued this myself. Claiming the spin offs are non canon is patently absurd, as all the inonsistencies are purely dependent on the mechanics of the game and it's the canon continuation of the stories events, hell even P4D gets refferenced in 5. The anime is blatantly contradictory to the events of the game and is an adaptation (thusly not the original source, thus not useable). There are several minor and major research errors regarding lore stuff. EG: "That was when he sorta... fused with his Shadow self. (I think that's what happened?) " It was Sagiri, it was birthed by Izanami herself and placed within him, this was directly stated to be the case. Speaking of which there are a large number of feats in the arena games that need to be looked at (as well as feats in the original game).

Even if the lightning wasn't cloud to ground, there are several statements putting them at lightning speed and Junpei's feat comes out to roughly the same ballpark.

(Also, gotta love how this guy is too lazy to even copy paste the math so just posts a screen cap but specifically crops out my name)

EDIT: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Thomas_The_hype_Engine/Persona_3/4_Feats_post

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

@Thomas

So.... The blog isn't legit then? At least for his claims of speed and non-canoncity?

 

[Jesterofgames]

Out of curiosity what statments make them lightning speed?

 

[Jesterofgames]

Also just wanted to point out that yosuke directly references the arena games "things got hectic the last time you visited in may" In the p4 golden true ending epilog

 

[DetectiVE899]

Feats from dungeon creation are definitely out.
Fog feat does indeed lack a timeframe, shold be recalced using the condensation method, I've already argued this myself. Claiming the spin offs are non canon is patently absurd, as all the inonsistencies are purely dependent on the mechanics of the game and it's the canon continuation of the stories events, hell even P4D gets refferenced in 5. The anime is blatantly contradictory to the events of the game and is an adaptation (thusly not the original source, thus not useable). There are several minor and major research errors regarding lore stuff. EG: "That was when he sorta... fused with his Shadow self. (I think that's what happened?) " It was Sagiri, it was birthed by Izanami herself and placed within him, this was directly stated to be the case. Speaking of which there are a large number of feats in the arena games that need to be looked at (as well as feats in the original game).

Even if the lightning wasn't cloud to ground, there are several statements putting them at lightning speed and Junpei's feat comes out to roughly the same ballpark.

(Also, gotta love how this guy is too lazy to even copy paste the math so just posts a screen cap but specifically crops out my name)

EDIT: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Thomas_The_hype_Engine/Persona_3/4_Feats_post

I see. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[NocturnBros]

-Feats about dungeon creation can go, there are just too many contradictions.

-I believe that the blog makes better points about the spin-offs being non-canon than the people who claim the opposite. The only things that could make Arena canon are assumptions, and the game is chock-full of contradictions to the main canon, as explained in the blog. And in addition to that, the anime has much less contradictory material than Arena, so disregarding the anime seems pointless (especially considering that it's the only source that has decent feats that aren't iffy as shit).

-Fog feat can also go. Needs to be recalced with the methods mentioned earlier.

-I really don't get why the lightning skills are MHS when they're explicitly not cloud-to-ground. And even if they were, there are no explicit numbers, so they would need to get calculated before assuming they're automatically MHS. I would like to see Thomas' source behind the statements that could prove MHS lightning skills.

 

[Jesterofgames]

@nocturne bros What about yosuke mentioning the arena games in the epilog of the golden endings Mentioning how things got hectic in may Which is when the arena games take place?

 

[Thomas_The_hype_Engine]

Alright real quick, lightning speed: http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Persona_3_Items ctrl+f lightning As for the attack lightning being cloud to ground, well, it comes from a cloud and it hits the ground (The dodge animation is wonky so I wouldn't use it anyway, but it's a thing) https://youtu.be/JaOw71pcK60?t=33 (Look at the last one, you see a bit of cloud, also it moves vertically and all that, IIRC, easier to see with zionga and stuff)

As for the anime being less contradictory, lolno.

Due to it's nature as an adaptation literally every time it decides to change something it's a contradiction with the source material, for example:


-Yu getting his persona earlier than he is supposed to


-the entire thing of Kanji losing his glasses mid fight


-Yu destroying Naoto's dungeon


-The entire margaret fight


-Shadow Mitsuo and Izanami pulling that weird illusion stuff The list goes on.

As for the so called contradictions of the arena games:


Himiko literally changed into a combat form, of course it's gonna have new abilities, why would someone include that.


Movesets in general being different is an obvious concession needed to make them fit into a fightning game roster, also it's been months, them trying out new moves isn't exactly out there to begin with, regarding the ultimate personas:


"From the P4A art book: Why do all of the "Persona 4" characters' Personas appear in their initial form? Wada: "Persona 4" differed from "Persona 3" in that the evolution of your Personas depended on your Social Links, so that aspect of the gameplay experience would have been different for every player. At the very least, we knew that every "Persona 4" player would have seen all of the Personas' initial forms during their playthrough, and that's why we decided to use those forms in "Persona 4 Arena."

Why a sequel with the same studio involved in the story department being non-canon is even being debated is beyond me. But in persona 5, P4D is refferenced with Kanamin, Arena is refferenced in a tv thing. etc... PQ being canon or not doesn't matter since everyone was buffed during the events of that game anyway but it's worth noting that it went out of it's way to erase all traces of it's existance so as not to contradict the timeline. Also if you feel like including animu feats despite all this then by all means, But discounting Arena whilst counting it is a massive double standard.

 

[KinkiestSins]

That is alot of text..

Anyway

1. Lightning speed is still fine by me.

2. Calc for High 6-A needs to be redone.

3. Dungeons are fine.

4. Movesets from Arena should be fine, but we can also just 'duct tape' the scenario by making them composite profiles.

Otherwise, Arena movesets are the only ones who can be used for Arena key.

5. I think we count it like this

Game => => Arena => Anime

so long they dont contradict eachother.

The games take primary canon, and we have an arena key for all of p3 and p4 casts.