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Phoenix Wright vs Makoto Naegi

Makoto simply can't hurt him. And even if Phoenix could on his own wright ovo, Makoto's luck would save him in the end.

That said, Phoenix is definitively smarter. Even still, I would say inconclusive.
 
Blood lusted I would say Phoenix. He is generally better in most stats. Sure you could argue Makoto having luck. You have to consider that doesn't help him injure Phoenix. And luck can only last so long. Plus Phoenix is also quite lucky at times. Maybe not as lucky, But realistically when he gets that first hit in, it is over. Adding on Phoenix even without evidence has a sizable range advantage with stuff like this from the anime which also can be strong enough to Cause a solid wooden can to explode. Sure it isn't like super impressive. But still that's defiantly a pretty important factor considering he could spam the heck outa it and take him from a distance. (Assuming the anime to be canon. I am actually not sure) If in character. Tie. Cause neither would wanna fight each other. Or Phoenix for the same reasons above. Assuming it a fight If course case Phoenix is smarter and more experienced. So still takes it.
 
"And luck can only last for so long"

Play danganronpa. Makoto's luck saves him all the time. Anything Phoenix could do that would be deadly, Makoto would get saved in the end. That's why I voted inconclusive.
 
Plus Phoenix is also quite lucky at times. Maybe not as lucky

Then why bring up the point :/. Regarding the luck thing, they won't be able to touch each other, he's able to cause a lot of improbable chain events of cause and effect, I can't see him taking this in terms of luck even when he gets "lucky at times".

Assuming it a fight If course case Phoenix is smarter and more experienced

At this point, what's intelligence going to do? Even Junko Enoshima, someone so smart, she could predict the future and analyze people in like a glance, couldn't understand how Naegi's luck work because of how weird it occurs, therefore he became a problem in the killing game and Junko couldn't try and kill him either because Naegi just avoids it with his luck unintentionally. Knowing how his luck works, they won't even be able to touch each other. "And luck can only last for so long", see Makoto Naegi Secret File, he was also able to cause weird and obnoxious events continuously that it made the chase annoying. Naegi doesn't have a fixed amount or a quantity of luck that'll eventually run out when his luck does random stuff, not how it works. Also, his bad luck turned into good luck in the end (which has pretty much happened a lot of times, he can also cause misfortune for a lot of people not just him at the same time and will cause good luck for him at the end), so it could go to his favor at some point, which can make this match unpredictable to a degree, even with bloodlusted.
 
Phoenix's Luck is not supernatural like Naegi's. That's the difference.

Edit: However, Naegi simply can't harm him. Which results, again, in inconclusive.

BTW, Phoenix is so smart, he took down Shelly The Killer in a battle of wits. A man so smart, entire world organizations can't even track him. The only other man capable of such a feat is Miles Edgeworth, who Phoenix outsmarts constantly.
 
Phoenix is so smart, he took down Shelly The Killer in a battle of wits. A man so smart, entire world organizations can't even track him. The only other man capable of such a feat is Miles Edgeworth, who Phoenix outsmarts constantly.

Which still won't help in analyzing his luck, Junko Enoshima is extremely good in terms of getting new information with "Ultimate Analyst", yet had a hard time understanding his luck, she even can predict the future and failed to kill Naegi with that regard (Which means, even geniuses can have an extremely hard time with his luck). However, Izuru didn't have any problems dealing with luck, even with the same talent, likely due to overlapping others' lucks when near them.
 
I'm not arguing that, tho?
-LephyrTheRevanchist

Oh, well, then I'll just put it there for more info.
 
Yeah, I did already last time, check the replies here, agreed with you.
 
Yes I know how lucky he is. But Again, Luck can last only so long. It is NLF to assume his luck will protect him forever. Phoenix Physically outclasses, and has close up and range advantage. Makota takes literally only luck. It is impressive luck. But again doesn't help him hurt phoenix and to assume it protects him forever is NLF. That's as fair as Oh rouge the bat completely physically outclasses Domino. However domino is Extremely lucky. Which makes it inconclusive. That's not saving them forever. Throw them in an arena. Have them fight to the death. Phoenix would eventually get lucky himself like he does. And all it will take is one good enough shot.
 
So your saying If Makoto fights someone who clearly has all stat advantages both physically and mentally, Plus also known for having some pretty good luck. The fight is somehow inconclusive cause the luck is supernatural. Does that mean any fight he goes in with people who cant counter his luck is inconclusive. Even if he is outclassed completely
 
@Buttersamuri

Read the page in the wiki about Supernatural Luck.

"Having some luck" (Phoenix) is not the same as having Luck so good it defies fate, probability and planning (Naegi). So yes, Makoto, by sheer luck, could stalemate anything that can't bypass it.

That said, Makoto's luck is not that crazy (and it is quite subtle, as shown in the first case of Danganronpa with the broken door). However, it is enough to warrant an inconclusive against opponents like Phoenix.
 
Considering Phoenix takes all stats by a very noticeable amount, Saying luck makes it inconclusive would be NLF. I understand and I know, he is lucky. But no. He is not That Lucky. Yes we have seen it save him from death. But it isn't like it couldn't be overwhelmed. If Phoenix kept sending blow after blow at Makoto, nothing proves he would just keep getting saved. Yes the first time, maybe even a couple times. But at most we have seen him almost killed and saved when someone does a sudden strike like with junko throwing that wrench, or when alter ego saved him in his execution. Those were just one strike things. Not like he is almost getting killed every step he takes. On top of that, That fall still knocked out Makoto. Didn't save him from that. On top of that as well we have seen people who could have put down Makoto if they wanted to. Like when Mondo Owada knocked him out. Why didn't his luck step in then. There is 0 evidence to say he could be saved from that. If he is laying unconscious, His luck isn't saving him. You would have to throw outside help sources for him to stand a chance. And Sometimes his luck comes from someone else. Like when alter saved him.


Ultimately, using his luck to say it is inconclusive when Phoenix outclasses utterly. And his luck has never shown to save him from a constant attack. That is what a major NLF is. His luck has never worked to that degree. He never has even utilized his luck in combat Hasn't even saved him from being knocked out cold like the times it has happened. And it proves his luck isn't that consistent enough. If he was facing someone he could at least injure. Maybe just a super human level. There could be more debate to it. But phoenix just outclasses. In all stats. Luck isn't saving Makoto. And the BAREST minimum, Phoenix is knocking him out cold. And that's still a win for him. And still can easily kill him from there
 
Actually, if Owada hadn't knocked him out there, he would've been killed by Monokuma. So indeed his luck saved him that time.

Phoenix only outclasses him in intelligence (useless here) and Striking Strength. Makoto's durability, however, is at a similar level to Phoenix, which coupled with his luck that always saves him in the end, is enough to warrant inconclusive, IMO.
 
If that's the case that just furthers my point an Outside help is what saved him. And this doesn't help the fact his luck won't help him forever. And it doesn't help him from being knocked out cold. And when he is down he is screwed. Next stats.

Speed Even footing But Phoenixs weapons blitz.

Durability Phoenix took a car driving directly into him which considering the weight of an average car around where his age is being 4000 pounds and an assumed speed of the car being 50 MPH. It would be low to mid balled around 745 newtons. Makoto took a 10 to 13 second fall. Average weight for a 19 year old being around 152 pounds, considering it at Terminal speed Which is a high high highball. Equals up to 68 newtons of force. AKA Phoenix mid to low ball > Makoto High Ball So no durability isn't even remotely comparable.

Arsenal Phoenix having evidence weapon used by human level people and could kill others in a good one shot. Knives, A gun, and more. Now put those weapons behind someone who broke open a big reinforced door. Makoto Literally Nothing

Attack potency Phoenix Smashed open aa reinforced door Makoto Human level Phoenix >> Makoto

So all the main fight stats are Phoenix by A LONG shot He has weapons than blitz (Like a gun) An actual arsenal with very fatal weapons He one shots And Makoto isn't doing Jack to scratch him. Makoto may be very lucky. But he isn't that lucky and it is NLF to assume it would save him. He hasn't ever shown his luck to be good enough to save him from an onslaught of attacks from a guy who weapons blitz and one shots. NLF to say it saves him
 
Phoenix doesn't use guns. There goes half that reasoning. Plus, he doesn't even normally carry one.

You keep throwing "NLF" around when we have sustained why the Luck would actually work with examples from the game itself. Even going as far as using headcannon saying Makoto's luck will "run out", when not only the game supports otherwise, it isn't how it works in the first place.

You also keep throwing "outside help", that means nothing here. As per SBA, they are fighting in central park, there are other people, using your arguments, boosting Makoto's luck as "it relies on it" (let's ignore the broken door, the fact that he even got to enter the school, Junko's stuff, etc).

For the final time: Makoto can't hurt Phoenix, and even if we say Phoenix can hurt Makoto back, his luck will save him in the end. Inconclusive.

Edit: BTW, when I said that Makoto's durability was on par with Phoenix, I meant Phoenix's AP. Which doesn't even change my reasoning, as I've even said that even if we say Makoto will get damaged, his luck saves him, as has saved him all the time in the game.
 
Meanwhile:

Bloodlust for both - Phoenix FRA

In-character - FRA inconclusive / serves wright to have a tie (pun intended)
 
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