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Possible upgrade for Arceus and the Creation Trio

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Hi everyone. Now very recently, my mom managed to by me the manga version of Arceus and the Jewel of Life (Get it if you can its MUCH better than the movie xD). And i gotta say, after reading through the whole book, I've noticed that the manga version has different and even BETTER feats than the movie version. And from looking at them, thinking it over, and after reading the whole book, i think this could be a really good upgrade for Arceus and the Creation Trio (if any).

Ok. So to start this off, take a look at the scans i posted from start to finish. We'll be going at one scan at a time (tho they are not in order but we really dont need that. Also they will be somewhat blurry so please let me know if anyone wants me to repost them). Now, in scan 1, we see something out of Arceus, Dialga and Palkia that we didnt see in the movie. Unlike the movie where Palkia and Dialga COMBINED block an attack from Arceus's Judgement, in the manga, only Dialga quickly blocks the attack that was gonna destroy Ash and his friends. Palkia comes in from out of nowhere and launches an extremely fast attack against Arceus at POINT blank range. And Arceus side steps it to dodge, effortlessly (implying far greater combat feats than the movie and how much more evidence that Dialga and Palkia are worthless compared to Arceus). Now we move on. Trust me, IT GETS BETTER.


1


In scan's 2, 3 AND 4 we see something that we never even knew was legit. We always believed that Arceus's life plates could nullfy attacks that were elemental/attributal and anything that has relations to the 2. But here, we thought wrong. We see Dialga and Palkia ACTUALLY use their signature attacks, Roar of Time and Spacial Rend, AGAINST arceus. Both launch their attacks simutaeously and Arceus stands there without a scratch as he is confirmed to have used the life plates to nullify both the attacks. In other words, Arceus just effortlessly nulified attacks that are of time and space and can effect both! This proves that Arceus can now also block attacks that, more than likely, wouldnt be considered elemental and wouldnt have any relation's to it.
2


3

4 (2)


In scan 5-6, believe it or not, Palkia did something thats a HUGE shocker. Unlike the movie version, we see Palkia CRACK THROUGH REALITY to get into the human universe to help Dialga WITHOUT using a portal like in the anime. And does the same thing GOING BACK to its own realm. This means Palkia, TWICE, traveled between 2 universes WITHOUT using a portal like it did in the anime. Literally forced its way through,meaning this is PURE speed. Thats like MFTL+++++++ speed to do alone (possibly, tho very likely).

Palkia scan


Palkia scan 2


Next, in scan 7, Palkia again does something that wasnt shown or implied in the movie. Now if you watched the movie, you would remember that Arceus during his sleep created a powerful wormhole in the human universe that was sucking up everything, even trapping Dialga within its grasp. While Dialga was trapped, Palkia came in on its own and used Spacial Rend to loosen its grip on Dialga and then use space manipulation to surround and disperse to wormhole and free Dialga. But here in the manga version, Palkia does the same thing only much more casual. Destroys the wormhole and frees Dialga in JUST one spacial rend. How cool is that compared to the movie??

Palkia scan 3


Finally, in scan 8, theres a feat Arceus did that, in this manga, is refered to being much higher. Now somewhere hear IIRC it was listed that Arceus was shaking 2 universes simutaneously while it was on its way to Earth in the movie version. Now what makes that said feat EVEN better is that in the manga, the time-space axis itself, not like the movie, is CRAZYILY reacting to Arceus's arrival to earth to the point where it looks like the whole axis is about to break. I dont know about you guys, but that should imply that the shaking Arceus did was even better than what the axis shown in the movie, strengthening the feat even more.

Time/Space axis


Thoughts on this? I know this wouldnt be enough for a total upgrade into a new tier but would this at least suffice them with new feats? And if so, would this be added to their composite forms?
 
Dude Arceus nullified spatial rend and roar of time ages ago in the movie and his plates can negate everything he at least created which means kinda everything
 
Spatial rend and roar of time are dragon type attacks, and what Palkia did appears to be rip a hole in space-time (which is basically just a cooler version of portal creation), not travel between separate space-time continuums with sheer speed, the rest just seem like more casual/impressive versions of the same feats so it wouldn't really change anything.
 
Blahblah9755 said:
Spatial rend and roar of time are dragon type attacks, and what Palkia did appears to be rip a hole in space-time (which is basically just a cooler version of portal creation), not travel between separate space-time continuums with sheer speed, the rest just seem like more casual/impressive versions of the same feats so it wouldn't really change anything.
True but it should be an improvement to Arceus's invulnerability via his plates since he never showed that he could nullfiy attacks that could warp/distort space/time in the movie, but here he does. I mean yea their signature attacks are technically listed as dragon type moves but they arent normal attributed moves. And are you sure its just a cooler version? This manga even depicts it as cracks, you can even see cracks from the reality Palkia went through fall off like broken glass to get from its space/time into the humans space/time. Same thing with it going back. I dont think that would count as Portal Creation
 
Akuto Sai12 said:
Dude Arceus nullified spatial rend and roar of time ages ago in the movie and his plates can negate everything he at least created which means kinda everything
Dude i saw the movie dozens of times and have it downloaded. Arceus never once negated their time/space attacks in it. The only times Dialga and Palkia use these moves in the movie is to destroy the wormhole that Arceus made while he was sleeping. In this manga only is where those 2 actually use those moves on Arceus and they get nullifed. The movie pretty much leaves information out unlike the manga versio
 
Even lower dimensional characters have broken dimensional barriers with pure strength before. It's considered hax and is in no way impressive to a tier 2 entity. Spatial Rend and Roar of Time are considered Dragon type moves. Still, pretty sure until Generation 6 there was no species invulnerable to Dragon type moves. This does imply nullification of space-time manipulation. They don't have composite forms. Pokemon profiles are composite by default. The feats mentioned can be added to a gallery or noted I guess, though they seem pretty minute.
 
Fairies cannot grasp the true form of dragon type moves. But no worries, Dragon type Pokemon have other moves. If it was more realistic, don't you think in inversion battles (I know, game mechanics) Fairy type Pokemon should have been smashed by those signature moves?
 
What I mean is that what Palkia did was just ripping a hole in space-time something that in Fiction is typically treated as a cooler way to say/depict creating a portal between universes/pocket dimensions (just look at characters like Buu)
 
Blahblah9755 said:
What I mean is that what Palkia did was just ripping a hole in space-time something that in Fiction is typically treated as a cooler way to say/depict creating a portal between universes/pocket dimensions (just look at characters like Buu)
So basically when a character rips through the reality of a space/time continuum its just portal creation? Any character?
 
TheMightyRegulator said:
Even lower dimensional characters have broken dimensional barriers with pure strength before. It's considered hax and is in no way impressive to a tier 2 entity. Spatial Rend and Roar of Time are considered Dragon type moves. Still, pretty sure until Generation 6 there was no species invulnerable to Dragon type moves. This does imply nullification of space-time manipulation. They don't have composite forms. Pokemon profiles are composite by default. The feats mentioned can be added to a gallery or noted I guess, though they seem pretty minute.
To BE fair, arent roar of time and spacial rend just defined as Dragon type moves in game mechanics? I dont think i've ever seen in the anime or manga or even in a cutscene in the games that these moves are classified as dragon type moves, even if they are only strictly to be used by Dialga, Palkia (and debatebly Arceus since he created them).
 
I mean just because there dragon type moves doesn't change the fact they can bend space and time with those attacks
 
Depends on its depiction. If it's fired via a beam of energy as described in game it's pretty safe to call it an actual Dragon Type, just one powerful enough to warp time.

Dekoshu said:
Fairies cannot grasp the true form of dragon type moves. But no worries, Dragon type Pokemon have other moves. If it was more realistic, don't you think in inversion battles (I know, game mechanics) Fairy type Pokemon should have been smashed by those signature moves?
That would be the case if it was proven several times in the anime that Pokemon aren't invulnerable to attacks that are greater than their durability. Also, game mechanics.
 
Do you think it's Farfetche'd to say those attacks have space and time attributes as well as dragon.

(Points if you get the overused pun)
 
What about the Time-Space Axis's reaction to Arceus's arrival? In the anime it showed 2 universes being shooken while in this manga it does the same thing only shows a much bigger reaction. Anything noticeable from this?
 
FictionalBlade101 said:
So basically when a character rips through the reality of a space/time continuum its just portal creation? Any character?
Well that's how it's typically treated in fiction, and that's how it was treated here. If it's used as an attack then no, but it quite clearly was just Palkia opening a small hole in space time to travel through, which is essentially glorified portal creation.
 
RadicalMrR said:
Do you think it's Farfetche'd to say those attacks have space and time attributes as well as dragon.

(Points if you get the overused pun)
Yes, one cuts space and the other distorts time which are standard 2-C attacks, dragon or otherwise.

Shaking the multiverse whilst incomplete is a big feat but I can't say if it would warrant a 2-C upgrade or not. Seems more like range than anything as nothing is actually destroyed.
 
TheMightyRegulator said:
RadicalMrR said:
Do you think it's Farfetche'd to say those attacks have space and time attributes as well as dragon.

(Points if you get the overused pun)
Yes, one cuts space and the other distorts time which are standard 2-C attacks, dragon or otherwise.
Shaking the multiverse whilst incomplete is a big feat but I can't say if it would warrant a 2-C upgrade or not. Seems more like range than anything as nothing is actually destroyed.
To be fair, even though nothing was actually destroyed, we have to take into consideration that Arceus didnt have the intent in actually destroying anything much more than a planet at best in the movie, probably not even that. Arceus when he was angry only had the intention of passing judgment upon humanity for what Damos did to him in the past. Theres no definite evidence that Arceus intended to DESTROY anything instead of PASSING JUDGMENT upon anything. Sheena herself even states that arceus would only "possibly" destroy humanity upon him passing justice. Of course this wouldnt mean Arceus can't destroy anything, because he most definitely can. This is just explaining how Arceus never really had the intent in destroying anything above a town full of humans.

Hell in the Darkrai movie (manga version) Dialga and Palkia were doing the same thing in a way. Their battle was not only affecting the human universe, the reverse world and the universe they were fighting in, but they were also effecting different timelines throughout the space/time contiumm and that was them just by fighting each other. And it was pretty much confirmed that Dialga and Palkia during their fight gave concern about anything OTHER than each other. They had no intent or had any care in destroying time, space, reality, etc. They only intended to destroy each other and thats all.

In other words, in scenerios like these, if Dialga, Palkia and Arceus had actually the INTENT of destroying concepts such as space/time or reality, like actually meaning to do it, then something like the shaking of the multiverse could have destroyed potentially a lot.
 
Blahblah9755 said:
FictionalBlade101 said:
So basically when a character rips through the reality of a space/time continuum its just portal creation? Any character?
Well that's how it's typically treated in fiction, and that's how it was treated here. If it's used as an attack then no, but it quite clearly was just Palkia opening a small hole in space time to travel through, which is essentially glorified portal creation.
Well i think it was done again a third time. In the first scan i show in the thread it shows Palkia coming out of nowhere from a large distance away to attack Arceus and Arceus side steps it like it was nothing. Also, i dont see how it would be considered a portal. You can see Dialga using a normal portal to enter the human world to assist Ash and the others. If Palkia's was really a portal, why would it appear to be completely different from Dialgas if its just a simple portal in space/time? It would look exactly the same as Dialga's, yet the specific detail to imply cracks is strongly shown instead. And its treated for everyone? IIRC Hulk and Superman were able to punch holes through reality. I dont see that being counted as portal creation (i mean if they did it).
 
Yes but it should be common sense that if a character has no intention of doing something then a full result isnt going to be brought out. Goku has never had the intention of destroying a planet yet we all know he can effortlessly and he also does stuff such as shaking the earth just by powering up. How would it be an assumption to say that Arceus could destroy the multiverse just by shaking it if he actually had the intent in doing it?
 
Man I guess I'm being really unclear, well I've never been good at explaining things anyway :/

It's not the same as creating a portal, it's just that when someone creates a hole in reality and uses it to travel to a different universe/pocket reality, which is what Palkia did, it's not considered the same thing as destroying a space-time continuum, or crossing a universe via sheer speed, and although it's not portal creation, it's very similar to it in that it's creating a hole to travel through and use to access a different location, hence why I call it glorified portal creation.
 
A character has to actually be shown to be capable of that feat before a conclusion like that can be made whatever the occasion.

Goku has legitimately defeated Planet level beings which involves powerscaling and attack potency, two legitimate methods of deducing the power of a character, not on leaps of thoughts on topics with no correlation. Speaking of casualties is meaningless if the feat isn't actually a destruction feat.

The correct question to ask is: is this AP scalable? Again, I'm not certain so you'll need more input but shaking involves no permanent alteration in the space-time continuum hence I doubt it's AP scalable.
 
TheMightyRegulator said:
A character has to actually be shown to be capable of that feat before a conclusion like that can be made whatever the occasion.
Goku has legitimately defeated Planet level beings which involves powerscaling and attack potency, two legitimate methods of deducing the power of a character, not on leaps of thoughts on topics with no correlation. Speaking of casualties is meaningless if the feat isn't actually a destruction feat.

The correct question to ask is: is this AP scalable? Again, I'm not certain so you'll need more input but shaking involves no permanent alteration in the space-time continuum hence I doubt it's AP scalable.
I guess. So other than this, would these just be added into their list of feats or are they just irrelevant? Like does Arceus now have nullification of Time/Space power?
 
TheMightyRegulator said:
They can be added to a created gallery. Yes, he does, but we still need to evaluate the feat.
Kk. Also forgive me for asking but is it a bad thing on VsBattleWiki to only try and upgrade one verse all the time? I dont want anyone to think im one for Pokemon, i just saw something interestng in the manga my mom bought me and i thought everyone here should be able to see it since the manga isnt online.
 
It's fine, though we can't focus on one franchise all the time, a few threads with legitimate new information are always well received.
 
TheMightyRegulator said:
It's fine, though we can't focus on one franchise all the time, a few threads with legitimate new information are always well received.
Kk. THank you for your input. Also i need to ask this. You most likely have a good reason for this but if this site accepts Arceus creating everything in pokemon, how come he isnt listed to have the powers of all the other legendaries? Like Jirachi's wish powers, Mews transforming, Yveltal and Xerneas's life/death powers, Darkrai's nightmare powers, etc.? I know he's listed to have the powers of the god tier sinnoh legends but why not every legendary?
 
There's no evidence he created any of them. Arceus went to sleep immediately after its role in creation, only visiting periodically after the Earth is formed. It's likely he didn't create them directly, but rather they became personifications of nature on Earth several billion years after creation.
 
TheMightyRegulator said:
There's no evidence he created any of them. Arceus went to sleep immediately after its role in creation, only visiting periodically after the Earth is formed. It's likely he didn't create them directly, but rather they became personifications of nature on Earth several billion years after creation.
But they would still be created from the things that he left for them. If its not directly then wouldnt it be indirectly as the origins of those very legends are still being born from what Arceus DID make?
 
Well remeber Dialga and Palkia along with possiblly Mew also had a hand in the creation of those powers.
 
Why would Dialga and Palkia have a hand in the Creation of any power?

Mew obviously isn't related to many of the Legendary Pokemon, if any at all to be honest.
 
well it is said that Arceus had Dialga and Palkia create everything that Arceus did not or something like that. And Mew was mentioned because of genetic reasons in which is why I said possibly.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
well it is said that Arceus had Dialga and Palkia create everything that Arceus did not or something like that. And Mew was mentioned because of genetic reasons in which is why I said possibly.
Yeah I already addressed Mew. Darkrai and Cresselia, Latios, Latios and various Pokemon who became "Legendary" by other, various methods other than having roles as forces of nature are all possibly related to Mew but this is all hearsay, we have no idea its relation to them in all honesty.

Dialga and Palkia actively created the Multiverse, Arceus just established the concepts, that is, by creating the Creation Trio and the Lake Trio.

There is no connection to them and entities formed several billion years later.
 
I wouldnt say that. Those legendaries formed billions of years later would still be formed by things that were created by Arceus or the Trio. Mewtwo was made from the experimentaion of Mew's DNA and IIRC other pokemon DNA. It'd be kind of ludicris to say the god of the verse didnt at least establish that for the ones who made mewtwo in any way
 
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