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I don’t know whether this will work or not, but I’ve already considered the worst possible outcome if it ends up failing. Regardless, there’s something I really want to bring up because it has been bothering me.
Okay, maybe I should start from when Goku was directly hit by the Spirit Bomb. After that incident, none of the fighters or even the gods could sense Goku’s presence. If we assume he reverted to his base form, he should’ve been easily detectable. Even if Goku had remained in his divine transformation, figures like Beerus, Whis, the Grand Priest, and Zeno should still have been able to sense him—whether through Ki Sensing or other means. But in reality, none of them could.
If we compare Goku’s disappearance after being struck by the Spirit Bomb to Android 17 blowing himself up to stop Jiren’s attack, Zeno was not shown erasing Android 17 (by darkening his image on the GodPad), whereas in Goku’s case, Zeno seemed ready to do so—as if they knew Android 17 was still alive. We can even assume that the Grand Priest and Zeno faintly sensed Android 17’s presence, unlike Goku, which could explain why they perceived Android 17 as still existing somewhere with their senses.
Next, the gods—including the Grand Priest—believed Goku’s body had been vaporized by the Spirit Bomb. This explains why his body was completely missing from the crater left by the Spirit Bomb’s explosion. Yet suddenly, he reappears in his Ultra Instinct -Sign- form, and his body looks like it’s “glitching” as if something had happened to him. On the other hand, there were still many fighters around the crater who should’ve noticed Goku’s body if it had been there. Even when we compare this to Android 17’s case, it helps explain why they didn’t take his self-destruction too seriously.
Then there’s the scene where Beerus says, “He’s coming,” implying that Goku had just reappeared, because at that moment no one could sense him. And then a massive surge of energy shook the World of Void—they assumed that was the moment Goku returned, just before Beerus began to sense Goku’s arrival, marked by the burst of energy shooting into the sky. But I found a preview claiming that Goku’s body was underground; however, that was only in the preview. In the actual scene, none of them noticed or sensed him at all. I also don’t understand why Goku’s energy had to be completely emptied to the point where no one could detect it. It makes sense, though, if in that phase Goku was reforming his body and was underground at the same time that the massive energy surge appeared.
That's the plot, but honestly this is like a feat for Goku even with various considerations and similar events he experienced before even though the energy absorbed was different, but it needed to be lifted even so his body disappeared and the energy could not be sensed at that time
Goku couldn't even heal from exponentially weaker stuff later on in that same saga, he absolutely can't regen to that degree.
And honestly, you got what to many "what if's" in your premise. Like a lil lee way is fine if the rest adds up but you legit ong said "what if" three times in a row stacking them, after saying "assume" twice, that's 5 assumptions that gotta line up for this to work, that's way to many. Technically 6 because you also added the assumption on the whole underground+reform thing.
For the 17 thing they frugot dont think to hard on it, 17 doesn't actually have energy to sense to begin with anyway.
This is way to vague and guessworky to be usable, even as a possibly, especially if we're lead to believe Goku had like 0 ki and got planted into the ground, that means there's a perfectly viable explanation that doesn't hinge on Goku having regen as good as Majin Buu that just happened off screen, is never mentioned, and promptly gets his ass beat like 5 times from flesh wounds and broken bones while MUI or when entering UI. Like the best you can argue is that maybe it healed him a bit, but a bit is not the second coming of broly Buu.
The God thing is completely different fyi, just because Goku has healed before (a stab wound mind you, not from molecules or something), doesn't mean that's what happened here or that the existence of the former supports this.
Goku couldn't even heal from exponentially weaker stuff later on in that same saga, he absolutely can't regen to that degree.
And honestly, you got what to many "what if's" in your premise. Like a lil lee way is fine if the rest adds up but you legit ong said "what if" three times in a row stacking them, after saying "assume" twice, that's 5 assumptions that gotta line up for this to work, that's way to many. Technically 6 because you also added the assumption on the whole underground+reform thing.
For the 17 thing they frugot dont think to hard on it, 17 doesn't actually have energy to sense to begin with anyway.
This is way to vague and guessworky to be usable, even as a possibly, especially if we're lead to believe Goku had like 0 ki and got planted into the ground, that means there's a perfectly viable explanation that doesn't hinge on Goku having regen as good as Majin Buu that just happened off screen, is never mentioned, and promptly gets his ass beat like 5 times from flesh wounds and broken bones while MUI or when entering UI. Like the best you can argue is that maybe it healed him a bit, but a bit is not the second coming of broly Buu.
The God thing is completely different fyi, just because Goku has healed before (a stab wound mind you, not from molecules or something), doesn't mean that's what happened here or that the existence of the former supports this.
All the "if" stuff refers to Goku's lost body. Again, Goku absorbing SSG energy and Goku absorbing Spirit Bomb energy are similar cases. They serve as power-ups. However, after Goku absorbed SSG energy in Super Saiyan form, he was able to quickly regenerate the burns on his fists, which could be what triggered his body's healing factor.
In the case of the Spirit Bomb, it could be similar, because Goku absorbs its energy to regenerate his body, even if it's higher than Buu's, depending on how fast he regenerates. The 0 Ki issue, why can we assume that? Ki is life-force energy, so if he's at 0 Ki, he should still be able to Resurrection, but Goku should have absorbed energy or whatever he did with the Spirit Bomb consciously.
About 17 I didn't say about Ki signatures but how they can feel 17's presence with their senses
Goku couldn't even heal from exponentially weaker stuff later on in that same saga, he absolutely can't regen to that degree.
And honestly, you got what to many "what if's" in your premise. Like a lil lee way is fine if the rest adds up but you legit ong said "what if" three times in a row stacking them, after saying "assume" twice, that's 5 assumptions that gotta line up for this to work, that's way to many. Technically 6 because you also added the assumption on the whole underground+reform thing.
For the 17 thing they frugot dont think to hard on it, 17 doesn't actually have energy to sense to begin with anyway.
This is way to vague and guessworky to be usable, even as a possibly, especially if we're lead to believe Goku had like 0 ki and got planted into the ground, that means there's a perfectly viable explanation that doesn't hinge on Goku having regen as good as Majin Buu that just happened off screen, is never mentioned, and promptly gets his ass beat like 5 times from flesh wounds and broken bones while MUI or when entering UI. Like the best you can argue is that maybe it healed him a bit, but a bit is not the second coming of broly Buu.
The God thing is completely different fyi, just because Goku has healed before (a stab wound mind you, not from molecules or something), doesn't mean that's what happened here or that the existence of the former supports this.
Total disappearance of Goku's body (visually)No detection possible by beings who normally detect anything (Whis, Zeno, GP).Sudden reappearance, “glitched” body, explosion of energyWhis explicitly saying that Goku absorbed the Genkidama — absorption of external energy = healing mechanism already demonstrated in Goku via SSG.Then you committed a whole bunch of fallacies Strawman, False Equivalence, Appeal to Ignorance, Plurium Interrogationum Mr. Chariot demands explicit proof when visual proof is sufficient, especially when trying to discredit something without paying attention to the number of fallacies. You invalidate a hypothesis by demanding a type of proof that is not necessary. Everything you say is meaningless and not even admissible given the semantic errors you make.I agree with Regen, honestly, conditionally, like a source of energy
It'd need proof of complete destruction of body, even if the soul was completely destroyed there's not evidence of total body erasure or hint towards that. So no.
We also see that Goku was able to regenerate his burned skin after absorbing Super Saiyan God into himself and turning it into his own power. This implies that Goku can regenerate after absorbing a certain type of energy and converting it into his own.
Has never been how Super Saiyan God worked. Goku did not absorb the form and use its energy as an additional fuel source; he infused the form, which was a foreign, temporary state of being, within himself and expanded his potential, which is what allowed him to become a Super Saiyan God after the initial ritual. That's what "made the power your own" meant.
Has never been how Super Saiyan God worked. Goku did not absorb the form and use its energy as an additional fuel source; he infused the form, which was a foreign, temporary state of being, within himself and expanded his potential, which is what allowed him to become a Super Saiyan God after the initial ritual. That's what "made the power your own" meant.
Basically, it's like this, just like with Spirit Bombs, they were actually meant to be power-ups, but Whis assumed they were temporary energy. However, when fighting Kefla, they were triggered again, allowing Goku to break through his shell again.
Wdym? This is a 1-hour episode that TOEI made as a surprise for the debut of Ultra Instinct. I wouldn't have made a thread if there weren't examples and interconnections in the previous episode.
How come none of the gods sensed Goku's presence? Even if he was still in his god transformation, they should have sensed him.
How come the fighters, even those near the crater, didn't sense Goku's body? Even if they were in his base form, they should have sensed him.
Why wasn't Android 17's suicide taken seriously? It was like they sensed Android 17's presence somewhere with their senses.
Why did they wonder whose energy it was when the massive energy shook WoV? Even if they assumed they couldn't sense it because Goku was in Ultra Instinct, we have many characters, including Jiren, who can sense God Ki. However, Beerus only sensed it when Goku said "He's coming" which means he just returned.
Spirit Bomb 2x is shown to vaporize/destroy the opponent's body, even in Zamasu's case just by splitting his body it creates an explosive effect that directly vaporizes Zamasu's physical body, and we see Goku is the last person to be directly hit by the Spirit Bomb explosion at very close range.
Goku uses the Spirit Bomb energy as a power-up, similar to the SSG energy. The SSG energy allows Goku to regenerate his burned cells in his Super Saiyan form, although the Spirit Bomb is said to be 'temporary' but it can be triggered with the same amount of energy, Goku uses it as a stepping stone to break through his shell.
Wdym? This is a 1-hour episode that TOEI made as a surprise for the debut of Ultra Instinct. I wouldn't have made a thread if there weren't examples and interconnections in the previous episode.
How come none of the gods sensed Goku's presence? Even if he was still in his god transformation, they should have sensed him.
How come the fighters, even those near the crater, didn't sense Goku's body? Even if they were in his base form, they should have sensed him.
Why wasn't Android 17's suicide taken seriously? It was like they sensed Android 17's presence somewhere with their senses.
Why did they wonder whose energy it was when the massive energy shook WoV? Even if they assumed they couldn't sense it because Goku was in Ultra Instinct, we have many characters, including Jiren, who can sense God Ki. However, Beerus only sensed it when Goku said "He's coming" which means he just returned.
Spirit Bomb 2x is shown to vaporize/destroy the opponent's body, even in Zamasu's case just by splitting his body it creates an explosive effect that directly vaporizes Zamasu's physical body, and we see Goku is the last person to be directly hit by the Spirit Bomb explosion at very close range.
Goku uses the Spirit Bomb energy as a power-up, similar to the SSG energy. The SSG energy allows Goku to regenerate his burned cells in his Super Saiyan form, although the Spirit Bomb is said to be 'temporary' but it can be triggered with the same amount of energy, Goku uses it as a stepping stone to break through his shell.
If you say you've probably watched this 7 times, I've also watched it countless times, even before creating this thread, maybe 5 times.
And, the issue of whether or not his regeneration is superior to Buu's is that he survived the Spirit Bomb, not just luck. The Spirit Bomb was even shown destroying Kid Buu and Fusion Zamasu's bodies, at least in the anime, very clearly. And it depends on what source he uses and how long it takes him to regenerate.
His body disappears and reappears, as if experiencing a "glitch"
.
Not exactly true but that doesn't matter, there should be no "if". We're an indexing wiki, we index what actually happens (or is at least stated), if you want something, you need to prove it happened, you can't actually do that though, and no, likely or possibly isn't an excuse, those still need to be backed by substantial evidence. And if the core of your argument is, by your own admission multiple "if"'s, that's a red flag.
Similar doesn't mean the same. You know what else is a similar case? The dozens of times they absorbed energy or were given energy from others/attacks. Yet basically all of them didn't heal, most you get is energy in the tank and stamina refilled, while cuts, bruises, bodily harm, whatever stay the same.
Including cases where more energy was given than your alleged SSJG example, yet failed to heal comparable wounds that one did. This tells us that just getting energy doesn't always equate to a heal, and thus whatever was going on with SSJG was a unique case and thus isn't exactly precedence for anything without further elaboration in context.
So do a billion other things, this is a non-factor. And not even true, the SB simply forced him into it, but has nothing to do with the power up itself.
However, after Goku absorbed SSG energy in Super Saiyan form, he was able to quickly regenerate the burns on his fists, which could be what triggered his body's healing factor.
Because nobody could sense him? And in DBZ when you're on your ass almost dead you have effectively zero ki? As seen a billion times before such as with Gohan in the Buu Saga? Like that isn't even a assumption, that's just how ki works, and would come prepacked if you're trying to argue Goku nearly died anyway, as in your very own premise, comes baked in with an alternate explanation.
Ki is life-force energy, so if he's at 0 Ki, he should still be able to Resurrection, but Goku should have absorbed energy or whatever he did with the Spirit Bomb consciously.
You know damn well what I meant, be fr now. When I said 0, I meant "effectively so low it can't be detected/is negligible".
Also, consciously?
That proves he wasn't vaped then, Goku wouldn't be conscious if that happened, unless you want to show a feat of that type of tolerance, because I can show you hundreds where Goku gets laid out or even knocked out by far less.
What senses? Zeno's senses are actual ass, he has multiple anti-feats even, his senses basically normal human lv. And GP isn't ticking who gets knocked out, and honestly you could argue he did see 17 piss off given
Hell if anything you could argue because no body + Goku literally already pulled this.
If they don't see a body, just wait to be safe, if you wanna get even more specific, it's a plot hole because Elder Kai would have 100% known 17 was alive due to his multidimensional hyper clairvoyance shit. It's legit a "don't think to hard" situation.
Note how you had to say visually. But yeah, "visually" is doing all the heavy lifting here. We don’t see his body for a couple shots in a Toei anime that constantly hides people in smoke, rubble, or just cuts away for drama, the very fact OP themselves points out it's very likely Goku was just planted beneath the ground, is self defeating as it is. That ain't "his body was vaporized", that’s "they didn’t show his body on screen", which is very much not the same thing. You’re slapping the conclusion on top of a framing choice and treating it like that's evidence, it isn't, and there's multiple other just as, if not more likely explanations.
This isn't even true, Zeno has multiple anti-feats of detecting shit, whether it's him needing Zamasu to be pointed out directly to him by Goku and explained the situation, the fact he can't even properly track Dyspo, and honestly about a dozen other things given he was shocked about 17 too coming back so it all cycles back around. And fyi,
Whis and GP, yeah cool except based on what? Is your argument really a NLF? Obviously both have extremely good sensing, but prove they'd sense Goku here in this specific situation, the situations are not comparable if the crux is that Goku was basically dead and had next to no ki. Many, many, times in DBZ have characters with interdimensional ki sensing failed to sense a living person yet on the verge of death, such as Gohan in the Buu Saga.
It's not this impossibility. Just because they have good ki sensing doesn't mean it's infallible, it's on you to prove Whis would be able to sense a effectively 0 ki Goku (and thinking on it, Whis doesn't say a single thing about whether or not Goku was dead, he just sits there with a smirk the whole time), and if they don't have a sufficient showing elsewhere, it doesn't mean a thing here otherwise.
But...
This doesn’t prove he doesn’t exist or his body is completely gone, it proves his ki is unreadable in that state, or at the very least so minute it gets clouded or obfuscated (and don't forget, right after, Gohan and Piccolo both say they can't actually sense Goku's movements, and it's not because he's to fast, so there very much is an underlying mechanic that can complicate the fact they couldn't sense him).
Acting like "Zeno couldn’t feel his presence" = "he was erased and reconstituted" is headcanon, that’s not a step the show ever actually takes, says, or anything really, you'd think they'd actually mention such a major facet of the sequence if it actually existed, no?
"We don't see him > must not exist > must have been vaporized > must have regenerated"
That’s 4 assumptions in a row, off a single observation, when there's just as likely explanations such as "he basically had none", or "he was planted in the ground based on the fact that's literally where he emerges from".
His "glitch" effect is just Toei trying to make UI look cool (even worse, since when was a vibration fx an indication of regen in DB? That's never been the case both before and after), hell they use the same filter multiple times later on too, goddamn they even repurpose it for speed slop. There’s no visual of flesh reforming from mist, no body knitting itself back together, no Buu-style reconstruction. We see a light pillar and a new form. Shonen has been doing "where’d he go > big light > new form" since before you were born we don’t call all of those "regeneration from vaporization" either. And that's because they aren't. You're conflating a bunch of disconnected nothings and acting like it supports this unrelated massive claim.
And the explosion of energy I don't have much to say, as if that doesn't happen constantly, as if we don't get that like 30 times more this saga from numerous characters, including Goku, again. It's not even the biggest one either, Jiren, Toppo, Goku himself later one, basically nuke the ToP passively.
Nope. Prove it's actually the same. And prove why a minor healing factor is equivalent to reforming an entire body from nothing.
Regardless, you’re fusing two completely different things and pretending they’re one, those being:
1. Whis: "He absorbed the Genkidama".
2. SSG: Goku burns his hand, absorbs SSG into himself, his localized damage goes away.
"Absorbed energy" =/= "was deleted and then rebuilt from nothing".
Yeah the first one is true, the second is the thing you need to prove. If that equivalence actually held, we'd be doing shit like giving every character who’s ever powered up by external energy, anyone who’s gotten a boost from allies, anyone who’s ever absorbed an attack on this lv, would automatically have Buu-tier regen by default. We both know nobody scales that way, because that’s not what’s happening in those scenes. It’s reinforcement / stamina / power up, not "I came back from being turned into vapor", and if it is, you need substantial proof, not a bunch of vibes.
You’re jumping from "this other feat can patch wounds" to "this can rebuild a body that no longer exists", from a completely different scenario mind you, so that's already an issue, you need to actually proof they're the same, off taking in energy, something that does have precedence, and that precedence says you don't get healed physically.
Nice try. Cute list, zero demonstration, which is to say they're nothing on their own.
Strawman? I attacked the actual claim – "Goku got vaporized and regenerated via Spirit Bomb". I pointed out how many assumptions you need to stack to make that work. That’s not misrepresenting it, that’s dissecting it. It ain't me who keeps prefacing everything with "could" and "if".
False equivalence? Saying "if he really had regen that insane, he wouldn’t get stuck with lesser injuries later in the same saga" is not a false equivalence, it’s a consistency check lad, something I once again feel isn't being done enough around here. If you can allegedly come back from near-vaporization, but a broken arm and some bruises stay broken and bruised while you’re literally in UI/MUI, your regen claim is sus af. That’s how we test claims in every scaling convo known to man. And it isn't like Goku couldn't use energy again later to heal if need be, in fact numerous attacks of his later on eclipse the energy the spirit bomb contained, if you're trying to argue it's a energy only thing. And don't even attempt to argue it's SB exclusive, doing so just admits energy can differ which in turn invalidates your SSJG comparison.
Appeal to ignorance? This one’s actually on you.
"We don’t see what happened off-screen, therefore regen is valid", is textbook appeal to ignorance.
"We don’t actually see regen, no one says regen, there's other explanations that don't hinge on creating entirely new pieces of lore, so we shouldn’t invent regen" is the opposite.
I’m not saying "it can’t be regen because I can’t disprove it", I’m saying "you’re adding a new ability; burden of proof’s on you, and you don’t have it".
Plurium interrogationum? (or many questions / loaded questions fyi for those who don't know wtf he just said) Listing multiple problems with this "theory" is not that. I’m not loading hidden assumptions into questions, I’m just pointing out every step where you have to insert headcanon, guess, assume, or preface with an "if", for the chain to function.
You basically just dumped Latin buzzwords hoping the aesthetics would cover the lack of an actual counter lad, nice try, like it or not, burden of proof is on you now, and will continue to be so. Stacking a dozen interpretations just to get a specific conclusion is the exact type of shit we don't allow here.
Oh btw I can do that too, here's what I was actually replying to, but given you're saying it's good enough and you agree, well it is what it is.
1. Appeal to Ignorance / Speculation-Stacking
"After that incident, none of the fighters or even the gods could sense Goku’s presence...
We can even assume that the Grand Priest and Zeno faintly sensed Android 17’s presence, unlike Goku, which could explain why they perceived Android 17 as still existing somewhere with their senses"
Literally filling every gap with "we can assume" and "which could explain", then treating that as if it’s evidence.
1.2 Appeal to ignorance:
"We don’t see / don’t know what happened > so my regen explanation is valid".
Not seeing what happened off-screen does not make this explanation true or even likely.
1.3. Speculation stacking:
"We can even assume GP/Zeno faintly sensed 17" – not stated, not shown, just "I want this to be true so I’ll assume it". Then uses that assumption as a premise to contrast with Goku, but we have no idea why they didn't blip 17 off, whether GP did know or whether it's bad writing, Zeno himself would have no idea, he simply doesn't have the feats dictating as much, has anti-feats even.
And hilariously, it's portrayed the exact same way as Goku's, like why don't see 17's body? Oh he hid under some rocks? That's cool, and nobody saw him do it?
2. Non Sequitur / Hasty Conclusion
"Next, the gods—including the Grand Priest—believed Goku’s body had been vaporized by the Spirit Bomb. This explains why his body was completely missing from the crater... Yet suddenly, he reappears... his body looks like it’s glitching..."
"…It makes sense, though, if in that phase Goku was reforming his body and was underground at the same time that the massive energy surge appeared".
Yeah nah, missing some steps there dude. Even if I humor this and we go;
They thought he was vaporized, the body wasn’t visible in the crater, he comes back with a weird visual effect,
NONE of that logically forces "he was regenerating underground". That’s just conjecture and extrapolation off something with a dozen other more likely explanations.
That is both a Non sequitur; the conclusion (regen) does not follow from the premises (hence the need to prove it...), and a Hasty conclusion; going from "situation with deliberately not much info" to "therefore high regen" without excluding simpler explanations (buried, 0 ki, off-screen absorption, oh hey that 3rd is outright stated...).
3. Faulty AnalogyFalse Equivalence
"It’s also worth noting that the Spirit Bomb has been shown to destroy Kid Buu’s body and even Fusion Zamasu…
Maybe this was just a dramatic moment created by Toei, and Whis did explain that Goku absorbed the Spirit Bomb—but what if his body was actually vaporized and then regenerated by absorbing the surrounding Spirit Bomb energy?"
Ignoring how that right there is another "what if" not "proof". That's equating Buu and Zamasu being targets destroyed by the Spirit Bomb with Goku being the one who absorbs that Spirit Bomb and thus somehow regenerates.
Completely different set-ups there lad, the very foundation differs.
In Buu/Zamasu, the SB is functioning as a destructive attack, with killing intent, and it hits them, they fail to stop it, null it, absorb it, and it just acts as an extremely powerful ki attack, because that's exactly what it is. They could have accomplished the same thing with an equally powerful normal ki blast even.
Yet, in Goku’s case, it’s explicitly stated that he absorbs it and that triggers UI.
Thus, "SB destroyed those dudes" + "SB hit Goku and we don't see him for a lil bit" = "Goku must’ve been erased then regen’d using it (despite the fact he took it into himself)".
That’s a Faulty analogy / false equivalence, you're treating different contexts (attack vs absorbed power-up) as identical enough to support full-blown regen.
And let's not get into cases such as Vegeta or Frieza who have both tanked a Spirit Bomb and survived it just fine, this isn't even just a false equivalence, it's also cherry picking and ignoring the very reason why it killed some and not the others (it's simply a power output issue, not some abstract underlying ability unique to it).
4. Begging the Question (Circular Reasoning)
Ironically, in that earlier wall, OP effectively argues
"…what if the Spirit Bomb’s energy was capable of regenerating Goku’s body? … then what if the same principle applies here? What if absorbing the Spirit Bomb allowed Goku to break through that ‘shell’ and regenerate his entire body? Is it possible that we could propose Possibly Regeneration (High) for Goku in this scenario?"
That’s trying to use "what if he regenerated" to justify "maybe we can say he has regen". The premise is "what if the Spirit Bomb regenerated him" yet the conclusion is "so maybe we can assign him regen"? That’s begging the question, and it's the very thing ya'll actually need to prove, yet regen from SB is placed into the premise ("what if that’s what happened") and never actually proven.
5. Appeal to Ignorance (again) on the "0 Ki" / sensing stuff
"We also don’t understand why Goku’s energy had to be completely emptied… It makes sense, though, if in that phase Goku was reforming his body..."
Which reads "We don’t understand X, therefore Y (regen) makes sense" is pure appeal to ignorance.
Lack of a full in-universe spoonfeed doesn’t mean you just start guessing, "We don’t know why his ki was gone” does not automatically lead to "because he was reforming his erased body" as a serious candidate, that doesn't even work because of the whole absorb thing, but also souls can sill be sensed, etc, so either way. Plenty of other options exist here, none of them require giving things never stated, shown, or implied.
6. Overextension / Non Sequitur 2
"We also see that Goku was able to regenerate his burned skin after absorbing Super Saiyan God into himself and turning it into his own power. This implies that Goku can regenerate after absorbing a certain type of energy and converting it into his own".
"Local burn disappears thus can regenerate after absorbing certain types of energy" = "therefore full-body regen from near-vaporization is on the table".
That’s a Non sequitur and a false equivalence too, a minor, local repair doesn’t justify a leap to full reconstitution from fuckall, and massive upscaling with zero intermediate steps.
If this logic were allowed, any character who heals a scratch after a power-up (Frieza on Namek explicitly) = auto "possibly high regen". Which is obviously not how we treat anything, you need actual backing and canon elaboration to jump that extra step.
Oh but I hear you say, that's a false equivalence, it isn't the same! Yeah, that's exactly my point, why is a Spirit Bomb suddenly the same as SSJG? If the argument is just "absorbed energy", they do that constantly yet this healing never happens, and they can output more energy than said SB later, yet even still. So either it's just energy and then there's a whole slew of holes or SSJG is just doing it's own thing, because that's what we see (again note, many times throughout DB, they absorbed energy that exceeds SSJG there yet didn't heal, despite having taken in more energy, so, ya know, bit of a red flag).
7. Argument from Assertion (Fallacy-List Spam)
This one is you lad.
"Then you committed a whole bunch of fallacies Strawman, False Equivalence, Appeal to Ignorance, Plurium Interrogationum"
You just assert I committed these without: quoting what I said, showing how they apply, or explaining the structure.
That’s an argument from assertion, you declaring "you/I did fallacies", as if that means anything doesn’t prove it, and ironically almost ad lapidem ("this is inadmissible because I say so") since you used the labels to dismiss instead of actually rebutting shit.
8. Shifting the Burden of Proof / Special Pleading
"Mr. Chariot demands explicit proof when visual proof is sufficient, especially when trying to discredit something without paying attention to the number of fallacies. You invalidate a hypothesis by demanding a type of proof that is not necessary"
Two issues here my dude
1. Trying to flip burden of proof.
YOU'RE adding a brand new ability (possibly High regen).
I'm asking for actual evidence that doesn't need to be prefaced with ten "maybes".
Yet you complain that I'm "invalidating" this by expecting proof as if... Look where you are, this is an indexing wiki, if you want to make your own there's other wiki's for that.
2. Special pleading
You want weaker standards for this specific claim, aka "visual proof is sufficient" (even though we don’t actually see the regen to begin with so there IS no visual proof for the part that matters), "you don’t need explicit proof", etc. Which directly contradicts normal wiki standards where new hax needs solid support, not speculation, yet that seems to be a running thing as of late with these DB threads ngl.
9. Appeal to Ignorance (yet again) in the "visual proof".
"Mr. Chariot demands explicit proof when visual proof is sufficient… You invalidate a hypothesis by demanding a type of proof that is not necessary"
All this is saying is "Because we don’t see what else happened, my visual reading is enough to justify regen".
So again; Appeal to ignorance; "we don’t have explicit data, so my favored interpretation wins".
When the correct response under lack of data ot not knowing tf happened is "go with the safest route that requires the least amount of guesswork" not "guess fifty things, pray they line up, and only then do we result in this specific option and use it".
10. Ad Hominem / Poisoning the Well
"Everything you say is meaningless and not even admissible given the semantic errors you make."
You ain't addressing the actual points here. All you're doing is attacking me ("meaningless", "not admissible") instead of the argument itself. Trying to poison the well: "anything Chariot says can be dismissed because I’ve labeled it semantically wrong". That’s textbook ad hominem and poisoning the well. No content, just a insult-as-argument, which needless to say, that isn't gonna fly here, you prove your claims or you drop them, it's really just that easy.
11. Appeal to Personal Belief / Headcanon Admission
"I agree with Regen, honestly, conditionally, like a source of energy"
This is just "I personally agree with Regen, on a conditional, hypothetical basis", That’s not evidence, it’s literally an appeal to personal belief. "I think it’s cool/plausible" isn't a feat or actual showing or even a statement. It also basically admits the whole thing is conditional, not something grounded in solid scans and only works under specific conditions, but that very condition has been met dozens of times in the show yet it never happened, which both cycles back to SSJG being its own thing given just taking in energy doesn't heal 99% of the time, which in turn takes away one of the arguments for this in the first place as if simply taking in energy doesn't always heal, we have no reason to assume the SB would do the same by default.
Like if you wanna start playing the fallacy game, you got appeal to ignorance all over, non sequiturs and hasty conclusions, faulty analogies, circular reasoning, shifting burden of proof, ad hominem/poisoning the well, and more, honestly I could go on but people will complain the reply became to run-on so I shall refrain.
Meanwhile, there isn’t a single explicit statement or clear visual of Goku being erased and then regenerating, and the simpler explanation matches what Whis actually says anyway.
Mr. Chariot demands explicit proof when visual proof is sufficient, especially when trying to discredit something without paying attention to the number of fallacies.
Already tackled a bit above but, no, I’m demanding positive evidence before you add a whole new hax to a character, that's never mentioned in a single piece of medium ever.
"Visual proof" in this context would be actually seeing his body disintegrate into nothing, and then reform, or clear narration / dialogue about him being destroyed and then regenerating. If that happened it'd be fine.
Neither happen, neither exist, which is precisely why your entire argument is a chain of maybes and not "is". And if even one of those like 8 maybes is wrong? It collapses and doesn't work.
What we actually have is simple,
1. no body in frame for a bit,
2. no ki detected for a bit,
3. weird aura when he comes back,
4. Whis saying he absorbed the Genkidama and it caused UI.
That supports "he almost died, fell into the bomb, the energy merged with him, UI popped", not "he ceased to exist physically and regrew from scratch". You’re asking to tag "possibly high regen" off literal tension screenplay. That’s not "visual proof", that’s vibes.
Oh and the worst part? It's an oxymoron too, how did Goku absorb it into his body, if his body got deleted? What did he absorb it into exactly?
Thanks for proving my point; "a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation." - Hypothesis definition according to 5s search.
So cool, thanks for admitting your supposed explanation has limited evidence and you still need to actually investigate solid proof.
So... Yeah, I am invalidating a hypothesis I guess you could say, because a hypothesis isn't good enough. If you wanna theory craft that's cool, but you can take it off wiki or to the discussion thread or F&G, but as long as you're here, you're gonna need proof otherwise you don't get anything. And that includes "possibly", that's for things that still have substantial backing, not what is a stack of presumptions.
All I'm getting from this is "I don’t have scans to back this, so I’m going to declare not just your standards invalid, but how the wiki as a whole works too wrong".
You’re the one trying to push he was nearly vaporized, reformed his entire body, and it is tied directly to an energy absorption mechanic,
And yet despite that
1. Goku never uses this supposed ability again even though he could have
2. Later fights very clearly show he doesn’t have that ability
3. And the official explanation just says "he absorbed the Spirit Bomb and awakened UI" not "he regenerated his erased body", which in and of itself, disproves your stance because if he absorbed it, it means he still had a body to absorb it into to begin with, after all, it isn't like Goku could be destroyed by it, then absorb it randomly after it was already gone, it had to happen before the attack was finished, in fact the "finish" is retroactively the absorption.
That’s not me making "semantic errors", that’s you trying to slip what is esssentially pure conjecture and guesswork in with "well, it could have happened off-screen".
I agree with Regen, honestly, conditionally, like a source of energy
And that right there is the problem, you don’t have a solid feat, you have a conditional conjecture.
You need all of this to line up at once:
1. He was actually vaporized (never shown, only assumed).
2. No one sensing him = "he doesn’t exist", not "his energy state is weird", "his ki is to low to detect", or even "he's basically dead, ki is negligible, and dudes like Jiren are 5ft from him as if that wouldn't complicate sensing".
3. The glitch effect = visual for regeneration, not just UI dramatization, literal aura, or a million other things (that fx is legit used again later in a completely different situation, it doesn't mean a thing).
4. SSG healing = proof of full-body reconstruction from nothing/energy equates to physical regen because "energy absorption" (as if there isn't a million cases of energy being absorbed in DB and it not doing what is stated here, in fact last I checked the SSJG thing was due to God Ki).
5. The series somehow forgets this god-tier regen exists in every later fight even though Goku and pals are throwing out attacks with a million times more energy than this SB had and could just heal each other or themselves whenever.
If any one of those steps doesn’t hold, your whole "possibly high regen" collapses. That’s exactly why I called it too assumption-heavy: not because “"regen is impossible", but because your case needs like five unspoken things all lining up just right just to be maybe right. Thinking on it, there's more, but that's what's been argued at least.
Meanwhile, a simpler explanation exists that matches what Whis actually says, fits the visuals, doesn’t contradict later showings, doesn’t require things that have never been stated let alone shown (given if it was shown we wouldn't even be arguing this).
Between "low-assumption explanation that fits the text" and "high-assumption explanation that gives bro new hax", I’m going with the former, idk what you expect here. You can like your hypothesis all you want, but it's not proof, it's not evidence, it's guesswork, and that's all it ever will be unless you bring actual evidence instead of trying to dodge the burden.
TL;DR:
You’re trying to push a whole new hax (possibly High regen) off pure vibes, off-screen gaps, and a chain of maybes.
Your argument literally needs all of this to be true at once:
Despite never seeing Goku’s body actually get vaporized/never see his body actually reform/Whis only says "he absorbed the Spirit Bomb and awakened UI", which already implies his body was still there to absorb it.
1. He was fully vaporized (not shown/not stated).
2. "No ki sensed" = "no body", instead of "0 ki"/"weird state"/"planted"/"whatever".
3. The glitch FX = "regenerating" instead of "literally anything else".
4. SSG healing o a much lower scale = energy absorption heals physical damage and thus works the same way as the Spirit Bomb despite times it don't.
5. The series just forgets this forever, despite later in the same saga (and beyond), Goku gets his shit rocked by normal injuries with zero sign of this supposed regen ever existing despite it being readily available if simply absorbing energy at a certain threshold enables it.
If even one of those steps is wrong, your whole "possibly High regen" falls apart. So no, "conditional regen headcanon you like" is not enough to slap this on his profile. You want a new ability? Bring actual evidence, not tension shots and Latin buzzwords, or god forbid actual discussion.
And ya'll wanna talk about precedence? As said, there's been times a non dead character has had so little ki they couldn't be sensed even with characters actively trying to look for them (Gohan after Buu laid him out, even when characters are told he died and they try to sense him they come up empty), so that's already precedence for "next to no ki means negligible sensing", and before anyone even attempts to say "oh but GP/Whis!", so? They aren't omniscient, and they're still only bound to the feats shown, if Whis can't sense him, nothing actually says he should when in either situation, Goku's ki is allegedly so low it's imperceptible which WOULDN'T happen even if his body was destroyed if you're arguing if he still had something to absorb it into, so having no ki sense, ergo him being sensed or not isn't evidence for or against, it doesn't actually mean he was vaped because his could be sensed either way.
Obviously already mentioned the whole "absorbed into his body" doesn't work if his body was allegedly vaped.
But you want to talk about guesswork? Why vaporization, why not BFR?
DB has plenty of precedence of a powerful attack basically knocking someone into an alt dimension, iirc something almost verbatim like that happens in GT, in the same saga Anilaza and others can punch or attack so hard they break through dimension walls, and we all know the Buu stuff, and some more here and there.
Why regen? Why not BFR and then he just came back because any DB dude tier 4 and above can?
That's rhetorical, because they never say he was BFR'd, much like how they never say his body was destroyed and he healed it after he shows back up, yet they're equal interpretations working off the exact same info ("they cant sense his ki so he must be elsewhere (again see GT, or even the Rosat which can't be sensed by someone like Goku)", "we dont see his body right away so he can't be there", "he emerges from an explosion and Beerus could sense him "coming" (coming implicates arrival, if Goku was healing, he wouldn't be showing up, he was already there)", "ki attacks can knock others into alt dimensions if strong and this was a very powerful attack (basically the same as your SSJG healing, there's "precedence" and "same mechanics"), honestly I can go on but you see the problem yes?
We'd never run with that, yet you can come to that same conclusion off the same pieces of info being used for regen, and is somehow equally valid, if not more so given at least that one doesn't have oxymoronic contradictions like Goku absorbed a Spirit Bomb into his non-existent body.
Let's not even get into the fact Goku shows up still scuffed and bruised, so what, did he just forget to heal a few scratches when reforming 99.999% of his body? There's so much wrong here that I'm tempted to make a thread regarding the proof requirements for DB CRT's as this is a constant thing at this point.
But honestly, having just went back to check the episode, this whole argument shouldn't even be a thing. When Whis explains how he ate the SB, we get a continued visual from the earlier scene, that keeps going after he was hit by it, showing him change from blue to UI, as he absorbed it into his body. Which is to say, no he didn't get destroyed, we straight up see his ass not get destroyed and the form shift + a statement saying he took it into his alleged destroyed body + he kept his wounds when emerging. Big for importance.
Post actual proof (or well don't, as above we know he didn't get destroyed as we see him), I'm so tired of these constant CRT's where people just throw things at a wall and pray they stick. Like it isn't hard, and if it is hard take that as a cue to think twice before making the CRT in the first place.
Ngl I think this should rather qualify for some form of Unconventional Regeneration maybe?
since in theory he did regenerate because of the spirit bomb after all and it's not like it's an everyday thing for Goku, So a better wording would be something like,
if that doesn't get a green light maybe he could get another extra layer of Resistance to extrasensory perception?
Since none of the deities could sense his Ki post the explosion, and I'm ngl I think the first option is the safest one as the latter wouldn't even make sense since the Angels should easily be able to detect his Ki unless it's PIS/outlish or rather that he did infact get vaporized and then regen'd and that explains why the angels couldn't sense his Ki since well how come they could sense a nonexistent ki lmao, still gonna wait to see what the others have to say but I don't think there are any other explanations tbh. Additionally, the OP has already explained most things.
Also, I'd like to point that he his body was "completely missing" because he had collapsed. He was on the ground. The official episode summary describes Goku as "taoreteita" (倒れていた), which translates as "fallen down" or "collapsed", and when he "reappears", he is literally emerging from the ground; he is straightening his posture and rising up from a prostrate position.
I know this is a joke, but we actually do see Goku shift from blue, to UI, in a flashback within the SB later in the EP after he emerged, as in, we see him very much not get destroyed and instead just eat the thing.
