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Prototype AP downgrade

The_Christian_Nerd

The_Christian_Nerd

121
11
This thread isn't regarding the Low 7-C rating, rather it is about 8-A altogether. Alex Mercer is 8-A because he tanked the explosion of a military base calced here:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Assaltwaffle/Prototype:_Warehouse_redux_Raw

First, there are some problems with it, which are brought up in the comments:

1. Using Violent Fragmentation. It doesn't look AT ALL like violent fragmentation. I don't even think fragmentation is right. Parts break of and then the building collapses.

2. Assuming that he tanked the ENTIRE energy of the blast. It was many blasts, and none of them were point blanks. He wouldn't of taken the entire energy.

Second, one of the points brought up in previous revisions (back when a former staff member tried to calc stack Mercer to High 7-C) is that almost every other feat in the series is 9-A to High 8-C. No other feat in the series even comes close to 8-A. Even in inFAMOUS there are at least 4 City level feats in the first game alone to back up their ratings. In addition, one of the calc group members calculated the energy of the nuclear explosion that would've affected Alex (due to Square Inverse Law) at around 8-A+. An explosion which completely vaporized him (see Regenerationn section of abilities or recent CTR).

So, in conclusion, ranking Alex as 8-A due to a single calc is rather dubious. It would probably be better to rank him as Building level for being able to destroy tanks, helicopters, bring down military buildings overtime, and defeat Elizabeth Greene in her giant form.

For Prototype 2 and the Low 7-C rating, it should probably be "At least Building level" or "Large Building level" for being superior to before and creating enough bio-mass to cover Manhattan.
 
Well after the building collapsed there seemed to be some follow up explosions that completely ripped the building pieces to shreds. I would guess that's where the v frag came from.

You probably have a point about it not being a single explosion though.
 
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1291190

You have implications that you have read the past revisions, but you skipped the revision that was discussed by basically all levels of staff (as well as others from the most recent thread) touching on the same exact points you brought up here.

1. Game mechanics.

2. He does, through the thermobaric tank that one-shots buildings in the same manner as the above, and consuming Greene who used a fraction of her biomass to fortify a building that same energy could only put a crack in.

3. The nuke feat is considered an outlier durability-wise and isn't used for anything. To put this in perspective, it takes slightly less than 300 megajoules (3e8 joules) of energy to vaporize a normal person. The guy who made the nuke calc found the energy being applied to Alex at his distance was 0.44 tons (1.8e9). This implies the same guy who takes two missiles to the face in the opening of the game is only 6 times harder to kill than a normal person, despite the fact that he literally has thousands of people inside of him, among other things.

There's nothing new here.
 
Callsign Castle said:
The guy who made the nuke calc found the energy being applied to Alex at his distance was 0.44 tons (1.8e9). This implies the same guy who takes two missiles to the face in the opening of the game is only 6 times harder to kill than a normal person, despite the fact that he literally has thousands of people inside of him, among other things.

There's nothing new here.
Click to expand...
There's also the fact that the nuke that Mercer survived was outright stated in the game of being capable of wiping Manhattan off the map (I don't know the exact AP for that, so that should be baseline 7-B at the very least), so it likely didn't even reach its maximum blast radius before it engulfed Mercer (which should render attempts to calc its true destructive output moot as we didn't even get a full look at the range of the nuclear explosion). 8-A sounds pathetically weak for a nuke (even weaker than the Little Boy, which has flattened Hiroshima, giving it a tier of 7-C), especially for one that is supposed to "wipe Manhattan off the map", so I highly doubt the scene we see about the nuclear explosion going off was its maximum blast radius (and the cutscene cut off right at the moment Mercer got engulfed by the explosion).
 
For nukes as far as I understand, there's the fireball radius, 20 PSI overpressure radius, and 5 PSI, not entirely too sure on the last two, but we use the 20 PSI radius for overall destructive power. I think.

There was a lot of conflicting values for the actual nuke value though. For instance if you consider the upper half of Manhattan was nuked (The dead zone), and the credits in Prototype 1 said the nuke detonated 10-15 miles off the coast of Manhattan, that would imply the bomb had a radius of 15 miles which is...colossal.
 
And from the previous CRT thread, you've said that Mercer has only gotten away a few hundred meters from the centre at most before the explosion reaches him.

1 mile is already over the 1000 meters range.

Not only would Mercer definitely have gotten caught in that, but he is likely much closer to the centre at the nuclear explosion than what some would think (some users outside this site have lowballed Mercer's feat of surviving the nuke by stating that he "got reduced to mush because of the shockwave of the nuke, thus he can only survive the kinetic explosion of the nuke and not the fiery blast" or some nonsense like that. We definitely know that the nuclear explosion in that scene hasn't reached its maximum blast radius). That blast radius is more than the blast radius of the Ivy Mike Bomb (which is a 7-B nuclear bomb), which is roughly 9.4 miles. The nuke in Prototype 1 should definitely be tier 7-B based from that.
 
So what are the conclusions here?
 
The nuke is an outlier durability feat for Mercer (as well as all of the evidence of the nuke in Prototype linking to it in being tier 7-B in AP), and all the points the OP brought up has already been discussed by practically all levels of the staff in the past, with the discussion concluding Prototype 1 Mercer being tier 8-A.

Basically, the conclusion is that all the points the OP has brought up has already been discussed and settled in the previous threads (which means arguments for 9-A to High 8-C Mercer has already been debunked, making the arguments for the AP downgrade in this thread moot).
 
No more than two people have argued against the revision and the OP hasn't even had a chance to reply yet. I don't think anythings concluded here.
 
The nuke would have killed Mercer, he wasnt even anywhere near the blast and he got pasted nearly to death, he only survived due to absorbing a bird
 
Then we'll be wait for the OP to reply.

However, If the OP doesn't reply by 24 hours from now, this thread is as good as concluded. Just to let you know.
 
Andytrenom said:
Mind telling me where you got this rule from?
Click to expand...
Not a rule per say. Just saying that if the OP never replies, then we basically have a dead thread if we keep on waiting for them.
 
Well, if this has been extensively discussed by the staff previously, I don't want to impose any ill-informed sudden changes.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
The nuke would have killed Mercer, he wasnt even anywhere near the blast and he got pasted nearly to death, he only survived due to absorbing a bird
Click to expand...
Where were you for this thread? It sure would've been nice to settle this if your arguments were in that thread (and all the agreed points in that thread contradicts everything you've just said).
 
@Death The nuke feat has been discussed to death and what i described is widely accepted on this wikia
 
The points of which has been recently overwritten due to the previous CRT. Not everything remains the same, and new points has been made that has given a new look to that feat.
 
>Given a new look to the feat

Unless there was some rehashing of the feat in the game itself there is nothing new about it to discuss, Mercer was still turned to paste and basically killed despite being nowhere near the blast
 
WeeklyBattles said:
>Given a new look to the feat

Unless there was some rehashing of the feat in the game itself there is nothing new about it to discuss, Mercer was still turned to paste and basically killed despite being nowhere near the blast
Click to expand...
Read that CRT please. The points made in it contradicts what you've just said (especially in regards to "being nowhere near the blast" and his overall Regenerationn).
 
AguilaR101 said:
How does that make sense exactly? Being able to regen doesn't really warrant him scaling to it at all.
Click to expand...
It scales due to the scale of damage the nuke has done to him, and the fact that he was able to survive such damages and recover later.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Except he wouldnt have survived it if not for that crow giving him enough biomass to regenerate
Click to expand...
Make that argument in the other thread please. You can try to argue that after you've read it and make counter arguments for the agreed points.
 
It scales due to the scale of damage the nuke has done to him, and the fact that he was able to survive such damages and recover later.


Makes sense, but for AP-Dura scaling purposes it can't be used unless someone has damaged him to the same extent
 
AguilaR101 said:
It scales due to the scale of damage the nuke has done to him, and the fact that he was able to survive such damages and recover later.


Makes sense, but for AP-Dura scaling purposes it can't be used unless someone has damaged him to the same extent
Click to expand...
Yes, which is why it is agreed that it doesn't scale to Mercer in regards to durability. Regenerationn is Regenerationn, we scale that by the extent of the damage the character can heal from.
 
The nuke, even more than the rest of the points in the thread, is a non-issue. It isn't used for a single statistic, and even if we did use it as a gauge for durability, it wouldn't make sense with any other feat in the series.

It serves as nothing more than a distraction.
 
We already discussed most of this in the previous thread. We should probably close this discussion.
 
@Ant When was the building destruction not being violent fragmentation and not being a single blast discussed before?
 
Andytrenom said:
@Ant When was the building destruction not being violent fragmentation and not being a single blast discussed before?
Click to expand...
It was previously discussed and established by others as game mechanics. Especially when compared to the other thermobaric explosions.
 
Callsign Castle said:
The calculation also takes into account that it comes from multiple explosions.
Click to expand...
It doesn't account for the smaller ones but those can be overlooked as they didn't seem to compromise the structure, however the calc by Assalt uses the full volume from the original (399013.96075344m^3) assumes 80% hollowness but doesn't take into account that only half of the building was destroyed. (going from the cutscene depicting the explosion), so the result might need to be halved
 
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