Question about Abstract Existence

[JoshSSJGod]

I am curious about something. The page for Abstract Existence states "Abstract Existence is the ability to embody an abstraction, such as a concept, thought, or an information".

• What exactly does being the embodiment of information mean? Could it be something like an A.I? Or is it something else?

• What exactly does it mean to be the embodiment of a thought?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

bump

 

[Antoniofer]

AE is just the power to represent a concept, quality, universal force, etc, whatever being its incarnation or what powers grant depends of the verse.

 

[Neverwanted2be]

so like stands

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah, Stands are embodiments of their user's life-force (or willpower? Don't remember).

 

[Ywlrvl]

No. We treat stands as Summoning.

 

[Antoniofer]

One ability do not contradict the other, one can summong an incarnation of something/someone.

 

[Ywlrvl]

What?

We don't treat stands as abstract existence. The mere lack of Abstract Existence on any JoJo character's page already proves that, and as far as I know, a Stand is a visual manifestatio of the user's life energy, not the embodiment of a concept such as time.

 

[Antoniofer]

Manifestation, personification, embodiment, all those are synonims, and those doesn't need to be related to concepts, it can be something as "simple" as an element, quality or emotions, in this case, the "life energy" of the user.

But if Abstract Existence here means that characters can only represent concepts, then according to our standard, they do not qualify as such.

 

[Ywlrvl]

But if Abstract Existence here means that characters can only represent concepts, then according to our standard, they do not qualify as such.

Yes, this is what I'm trying to say. Stands do not fit into the category of AE within VSBW standards. The topic of whether or not stands are abstract beings is debatable, but will not qualify here.

Despite being the manifestation of "the user's lifeforce", they lack all crucial standards for AE:

1. Lack of immortality due to embodying/manifesting/being the incarnation of said concept (in this case, the user's lifeforce)

2. Lack of control over abstraction/embodiment (lifeforce)

3. Able to be affected by abilities that don't target the abstraction

And, directly quoted from the AE page:

Embodying a concept is not enough to obtain this ability, an abstract needs feats or reliable statements proving that the concept they represent grants them Immortality/Regenerationn or control over the abstraction.

And, as shown by Notorious B.I.G., Anubis, Super Fly, and Cheap Trick who all continued to function by themselves as their own entities despite the user dying, they cannot be abstract entities.

At most they still count as Summoning or Lifeforce Manipulation.

 

[Antvasima]

@Antoniofer

Do we need to rewrite the definition somewhat to make it easier to understand?

 

[Antoniofer]

In the way the power is described, only beings that embody something and are immortal because of it should have it, so, even though Stands embody something, they aren't immortal.

I would add stuff like character that embody emotions and universal forces should also have this, they may embody something like Time, but not Time as a concept, but as a universal force (I believe Doki-Doki is like that); same way like emotions, like the case of Parallax and Ion (in fact, they have AE despite not representing a concept, bthey represent an emotion as a type of energy).

 

[Antvasima]

I meant that should we remove the "an information" part of the description? It seems vague and confusing.

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah, it sounds weird, I believe it refer to objects/entities that incarnate stuff like history or science, but don't think think "information" is the best word.

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed. I would appreciate help to solve this problem. You can ask some other staff members for help if you wish.

 

[Andytrenom]

Information on its own is abstract, but things like AI and virtual characters are typically assumed to be things information is stored in instead and don't qualify. Pure information should still count as abstract existence

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

@Andy

Would you be willing to slightly rewrite the page so it turns easier to understand?

 

[Andytrenom]

I think it's fine as is

 

[Antvasima]

Even the "an information" part?

 

[Andytrenom]

Yeah

 

[Ywlrvl]

I think this thread has reached its conclusion. The OP's question has been answered, and all loose ends have been tied.

Might be good to close it now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.