Question about fusions.

[IDrey]

Since we know that the fusion is the power of the warriors multiplied, it would not mean that the power of a fusion is actually much higher? For example, it think base Goku and Vegeta from Buu saga are at least star level in their base forms, if we multiplie thier power the result would be 5.693x1041 x 5.693x1041 = 3.2410249e+86 wich is multi galaxy level. It works like that? Sorry, i dont know much about the system.

 

[Akreious]

I think it works more like (Fighter 1 + Fighter 2)x(Unspecified and Unknown Multiplier) = Result?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Base dance fusions are twice as strong as the user's max power and potara are 100x that. It's evident in the manga and daizenshuu so I'll bring it up later.

 

[IDrey]

Base dance fusions are twice as strong as the user's max power and potara are 100x that. It's evident in the manga and daizenshuu so I'll bring it up later.

Ok, thank you.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

By 100x I mean 50x the fusee's max power together.

 

[IDrey]

Bump.

 

[Ovrhide]

retcon to be the same as of now. daizenshuu is outdated

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

retcon to be the same as of now. daizenshuu is outdated

Hype.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

At 16:47 Old Kai claims that Vegito wouldn't need ssj. And when Vegeta arrives on earth Buuhan says that fusion face between Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be strong enough. There's also Base Kefla being many times stronger than full power Kale but Gogeta was only slightly stronger than Goku in base.

 

[Omegas03]

That's just cockyness on Buuhan's part. Remember an Hypothetical Z Gogeta would be way stronger than (SSJ3 Goku+SSJ2 Vegeta)*x opposed to Gotenks who is just (SSJ Kids*x). We have no more indication on Hypothetical Z Gogeta's power and Buuhan's statement can be easily dismissed lol.

Btw, Base Gogeta was way stronger than SSB Goku. He could no sell and actually not get blitzed by SSJ Broly while SSB Goku was barely on Ikari Broly's league... Not to mention Goku and Vegeta barely had any chance to fight/escape SSJ Broly and Gogeta could just fight him like nothing. Base Gogeta and Kefla were way stronger than their fusees max power in the same way.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I mean even when Goku fused with Vegeta against Buu he wasn't sure how'd they do against Buu and as Vegito he was very surprised on how strong he was.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I've been doing some thinking and, it's possible that I'm wrong. All the points that I brought up are from Z not Super, but I'll elaborate later.

 

[PowerToScale]

I remember there was some guides that said it was Fighter x Fighter. I it was also mentioned in the anime that it was a multipler between fighters.

Edit: I found this post that has the scans

https://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2289299-namekian-fusion-multiplier-multiplication/

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Come to think of it, are we sure the retcon is legit? In DBS base Kefla is many times stronger than Kale and Caulifla, who were way weaker than SSG Goku together while base Kefla washed him. In DBS: Broly, Gogeta needed to go SSJ to fight SSJ Broly and was even comparable him. All base Gogeta did was defect a few Ki blasts, something SSB Goku was able to do.

 

[LordTracer]

Well, Kale was able to somewhat swap hands with SSG Goku at times, although it was very clear she was his inferior.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Well, Kale was able to somewhat swap hands with SSG Goku at times, although it was very clear she was his inferior.

Point is Potara > Dance.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Didn't Champa say that the power increase was tens of times? So it would be (Fighter 1 full power + Fighter 2 full power)*tens of times= Potara fusion base form

I might be wrong though...

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Yes it's the max power of fusee 1 + the max power of fusee 2 x tens of times = base Potara Fusion.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

So if we we're to use this to try and get Z Vegito's power it would be: (1 Kilofoe + 1 Kilofoe)*20 (Tens of times at minimum means 20, not 10)= 40 Kilofoe base Vegito.

This is a slight low ball since Goku is much stronger than 1 kilofoe in the majin buu saga while Vegeta is slightly above 1 kilofoe as well, but this is the best we will get.

 

[Ovrhide]

Well, Kale was able to somewhat swap hands with SSG Goku at times, although it was very clear she was his inferior.

Point is Potara > Dance.

retcon to be the same. and that is how it has been treated for ever in different medias.


just like how potara had a time limit retcon, fusion dance had a power boost one. and it goes well with how base vegito was shown on the level of fused zamasu in the manga, who was Perfect ssjb level.

 

[ZERO7772]

Dnace power got recton, Gogeta's actual feats are way more impressive than Vegito in super and anything that you may bring only factor in during the Z era

 

[WarriorofMite]

It was stated by Vados to be "the sum of both fighters, multiplied tens of times" during the ToP. So it should be (A+B) x 20-90.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Fusion is as strong as the plot demands. Generally, you can safely assume the Base fusion will surpass the fusee's strongest forms but not much else.

Vados's Potara explanation works for SS Vegito stomping Buu, but not Base Vegito. It's also nonsensical relative to Base Gogeta taking on SS Broly briefly, when SSB Goku was only as strong as Wrath Broly.


To add further, Vegito Blue isn't much stronger than Goku Blue considering Goku penetrated Zamasu's Holy Wrath with all his strength and Vegito seemed to actually have some difficult against Zamasu. Basically, Potara is overpowered in Z with Dance taking a backseat but Potara is underpowered in Super with Dance taking over. It overall makes little sense when linking Z and Super (which are both canon) and their inconsistent fusions.

 

[Ovrhide]

Fusion is as strong as the plot demands. Generally, you can safely assume the Base fusion will surpass the fusee's strongest forms but not much else.
Vados's Potara explanation works for SS Vegito stomping Buu, but not Base Vegito. It's also nonsensical relative to Base Gogeta taking on SS Broly briefly, when SSB Goku was only as strong as Wrath Broly.


To add further, Vegito Blue isn't much stronger than Goku Blue considering Goku penetrated Zamasu's Holy Wrath with all his strength and Vegito seemed to actually have some difficult against Zamasu. Basically, Potara is overpowered in Z with Dance taking a backseat but Potara is underpowered in Super with Dance taking over. It overall makes little sense when linking Z and Super (which are both canon) and their inconsistent fusions.

you are underestimating the boost in power fused zamasu got with his fap arm.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I have harnessed the power of the Fap Force for many a year, and no man gains such a Fap Boost from another man. That is fake AND gay.

Regardless, claiming Zamasu grew thousands of times stronger in that time-span from half his body being screwed up is honestly pretty ridiculously. I guess you can claim he had constant zenkais but I don't recall such a thing ever being brought up in the anime regarding Merged Zamasu or even people indicating he was growing stronger.

 

[Ovrhide]

I have harnessed the power of the Fap Force for many a year, and no man gains such a Fap Boost from another man. That is fake AND gay.
Regardless, claiming Zamasu grew thousands of times stronger in that time-span from half his body being screwed up is honestly pretty ridiculously. I guess you can claim he had constant zenkais but I don't recall such a thing ever being brought up in the anime regarding Merged Zamasu or even people indicating he was growing stronger.

the boost was consciderable. definitely not thousands tho. but that episode was a all over the place in terms of scaling. even trunks could almost go toe to toe with F.zamasi before the spirit bomb formed

 

[Ovrhide]

manga made the whole (base stronger than strongest fusee form) well. base vegito was shown blowing half of merged zamsus body away. in a way its in similar scale to base gogeta swiftly dodging and knocking aside ssj brolys attack

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Yeah, Super screwed up badly with powerscaling. Vegito doesn't come off as insanely stronger than Goku or Vegeta, Potara being sum multiplied by dozens is weak compared to Z Potara and the Dance (Kale was already competing with SSG Goku with SS2. If she fused with Caulifa and became upwards to 100x stronger then it isn't far-fetched for Base Kefla to surpass SSG Goku) and Dance is just insanely overpowered in the Broly film.

I really don't think we should treat Fusion as consistent. It's filled with inconsistencies across the entire franchise.

 

[Ovrhide]

Yeah, Super screwed up badly with powerscaling. Vegito doesn't come off as insanely stronger than Goku or Vegeta, Potara being sum multiplied by dozens is weak compared to Z Potara and the Dance (Kale was already competing with SSG Goku with SS2. If she fused with Caulifa and became upwards to 100x stronger then it isn't far-fetched for Base Kefla to surpass SSG Goku) and Dance is just insanely overpowered in the Broly film.
I really don't think we should treat Fusion as consistent. It's filled with inconsistencies across the entire franchise.

it never is conscistent, but at last it being > fusees strongest form has applied in all of them since introduction.

Vegito > ssj3 Goku

Kefla > ssj god goku > ssj kale

gogeta > Blue Goku


tho as of now, Gogeta has been the first to truly show an insane humongous gap in power.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I don't count Vegito's fight in the Anime because of the inconsistencies.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

SS Vegito >> Buuhan >> Buutenks = Gohan >> Super Buu = SS3 Gotenks >> SS3 Goku >/= SS Gotenks >> SS2 Goku >> SS Goku is a pretty huge freaking gap.

Compare that to SSB Vegito >/= Corrupted Zamasu > Merged Zamasu >> SSB Goku

Or SS2 Kefla > SS Kefla >> SSB Goku >> Kefla > SSG Goku > Kale

Now look at Gogeta with his scaling being: SSB Gogeta >> FPSS Broly >/= Beerus >>> SS Broly = SS Gogeta >> Golden Frieza > X20 SSB Goku >> SSB Goku

SS Vegito and SSB Gogeta are pretty similar in their ridiculous powerscaling but Kefla and SSB Vegito are relatively much weaker looking, which obviously makes zero sense.

All we can really say is that fusion is way stronger than the strongest forms of the fusees combined but the degree to which is extremely inconsistent and varies wildly.

 

[ZERO7772]

Fusion is as strong as the plot needs it to be, It was never given a fixed multiplier and its likely that it doesn't have one at all and it's simply scales to the fuses strongest form.

Vados explanation doesn't really work when you have Gogeta performing better than Blue Goku in his BASE which easily makes him thousands of times stronger than Goku

To be fair, the only pathetic fusion we saw in DB was DBS era anime Vegito and that was Toei wanting to insert Vegito in any way possible into the arc while still wanting to give Trunks the finishing blow.

 

[ZERO7772]

-Vegito in Z was stronger than SSJ3 Goku in base

-Gotekns is stronger than the kids SS form in his base.

-Manga Vegito is stronger than Blue Goku in base.

-Kefla is stronger than Kale in base

-Gogeta in Broly is stronger Blue Goku in base

-Hearts implied that Base Gogeta was stronger than Blue Goku in the anime

Only outlier is anime Vegito....

 

[Ovrhide]

-Vegito in Z was stronger than SSJ3 Goku in base
-Gotekns is stronger than the kids SS form in his base.

-Manga Vegito is stronger than Blue Goku in base.

-Kefla is stronger than Kale in base

-Gogeta in Broly is stronger Blue Goku in base

-Hearts implied that Base Gogeta was stronger than Blue Goku in the anime

Only outlier is anime Vegito....

ah super anime... the things it doesnt mess up... i wish i could find them.

 

[Omegas03]

-Vegito in Z was stronger than SSJ3 Goku in base

-Gotekns is stronger than the kids SS form in his base.

-Manga Vegito is stronger than Blue Goku in base.

-Kefla is stronger than Kale in base

-Gogeta in Broly is stronger Blue Goku in base

-Hearts implied that Base Gogeta was stronger than Blue Goku in the anime

Only outlier is anime Vegito....

I mean, Vegito just went SSB and fought a Corrupted Zamasu that got much stronger than when he was kicked out by SSBKK Goku via LoJ. You can still say Anime DBS Base Vegito is stronger than Black Arc Blue Goku.

 

[ZERO7772]

Same Zamasu was having issues with Rage Trunks, hard to believe Zamasu would become thousands of times stronger of all sudden.

His show in Zamasu arc was just really "meh" compared to how OP the fusions are usually portrayed.

 

[BlastX]

Barely related but I find it funny Base Vegerot's performance in the DBS Manga is similar to his performance in the DBZ Anime

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

How bout we just say base fusions are at least 20x stronger than the fusee's max power? After all it is tens of times according to Vados.

 

[ZERO7772]

That would make base Gogeta like as strong as SSBKKx20 Goku. Heck if you takes her words literally then Gogeta would be stronger than SSBE Vegeta in base as well.

 

[DMB_1]

In my opinion, the Manga is more trustable in the way it treats Vegito, as in the Broly movie (the script of which was actually written by Toriyama) portrays Base Gogeta as stronger than Goku at full power (excluding Ultra Instinct, but that's another can of worms entirely).