Quick Makima CRT

[GunshyFever]

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[GunshyFever]

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[GunshyFever]

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[GunshyFever]

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[GunshyFever]

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[GunshyFever]

Forgot about this, bump.

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump

 

[GunshyFever]

bump

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump...

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

OP looks fine to me.

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump, could someone alert staff?

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump

 

[Mommyleona]

Disagree, this looks no different from other primal fears taking a second or 2 to regen after receiving heavy damage, and i also disagree with "Invulnerability" stuff, since all Makima said is "no attacks in the darkness will work", which might just mean that Santa Claus will keep regenerating in the dark, i dont see how that 1 statement proves outright Invulnerability, there's no feats to back that up either, worse even, we clearly saw Santa Claus being hurt in the darkness by Quanxi as someone already mentioned

 

[GunshyFever]

Disagree, this looks no different from other primal fears taking a second or 2 to regen after receiving heavy damage, and i also disagree with "Invulnerability" stuff, since all Makima said is "no attacks in the darkness will work", which might just mean that Santa Claus will keep regenerating in the dark, i dont see how that 1 statement proves outright Invulnerability, there's no feats to back that up either, worse even, we clearly saw Santa Claus being hurt in the darkness by Quanxi as someone already mentioned

Your points were already brought up and discussed/debunked with the very first opposition in this thread. I suggest you take time to read through the thread, considering you wouldn't have brought up these point had you completely read through. However, invulnerability is only considered iffy because the Darkness Devil already has multiple defense systems, that's it. My previous points show that invulnerability still works as an ability in general to be considered.

Discussion is practically covered, what's being determined is interpretation.

 

[Mommyleona]

Your points were already brought up and discussed/debunked with the very first opposition in this thread. I suggest you take time to read through the thread, considering you wouldn't have brought up these point had you completely read through. However, invulnerability is only considered iffy because the Darkness Devil already has multiple defense systems, that's it. My previous points show that invulnerability still works as an ability in general to be considered.

Discussion is practically covered, what's being determined is interpretation.

Dont worry, i read it, and i did say someone else already made those points, but still, none of the arguments you made solidly prove either of those(for me), there's no feats of invulnerability and there's very little evidence to this being an actual regeneration negation

If Santa were completely surrounded by darkness, she would have entered her "night" state. Notice how you mention that she's in a darkened alleyway, she's actually in a building that has windows and even the hole she punched through the floor lets in some light.

for example the point you're making here doesnt work, she enters her night state, because its night duh, not because its completely dark, there still would be light in the city, from buildings and lamps on the streets

and so on, therefore im not convinced, but i digress since my opinion matters very little anyway

 

[GunshyFever]

Dont worry, i read it, and i did say someone else already made those points, but still, none of the arguments you made solidly prove either of those(for me), there's no feats of invulnerability and there's very little evidence to this being an actual regeneration negation

for example the point you're making here doesnt work, she enters her night state, because its night duh, not because its completely dark, there still would be light in the city, from buildings and lamps on the streets

and so on, therefore im not convinced, but i digress since my opinion matters very little anyway

Well yeah, the invulnerability doesn't come from a feat but from a statement. Makima says that conventional attacks do not work on Santa while she is within the darkness, requiring a light based counter to bypass this invulnerability.

In your example, regardless of your point, the entire OP is discussing a nighttime version of Santa Claus in contrast to the daytime version. Your argument clearly doesn't hold up because if being inside that building and being out in the nighttime were treated as the same level of darkness, Santa Claus would have entered her night form the first time and gained her invulnerability then. You're bringing up a version of her that isn't being discussed and doesn't even have invulnerability and using that to make your point is strawmanning.

As for regeneration negation, the entire point is that Makima shouldn't have been able to harm the Darkness Devil, given his layered regeneration which is instantaneous as the OP shows through nighttime Santa Claus, who only contains a pinch of the Darkness Devil’s flesh.

It was pointed out by @FinePoint (no pun intended) that this might be a minor inconsistency in the fiction. However, I still believe it's plausible that Makima should be granted invulnerability negation. And given the context of the feat, I'm still inclined to think it's regeneration negation or at the very least, enhanced biological manipulation, considering she was able to severely disrupt the Darkness Devil's biology, despite his ability to freely manipulate it as shown in the OP.

 

[Mommyleona]

Well yeah, the invulnerability doesn't come from a feat but from a statement.

Which is very iffy, its just 1 vague statement

counter to bypass this invulnerability

see heres the problem, makima only says that attacks wont work, which as i said earlier, might just mean that she wont stop regenerating in the darkness, not that she's outright INVULNERABLE

if being inside that building and being out in the nighttime were treated as the same level of darkness

why do you assume that her night state activates based on the level of darkness, and not because the night comes? is that stated anywhere? thats my point

You're bringing up a version of her that isn't being discussed and doesn't even have invulnerability

based on??? who said that she only gained this supposed invulnerability when night came?(as you are proposing) all makima said is that "in the darkness" attacks wont work on her, then we have Santa claus herself say that she's in a darkness when they fell though the floors and she heals. there's no statement that says she gains invulnerability specifically in her night form, or that "more" darkness is needed for it to work

the entire point is that Makima shouldn't have been able to harm the Darkness Devil, given his layered regeneration which is instantaneous as the OP shows through nighttime Santa Claus

why would regeneration not allow her to hurt darkness devil?

enhanced biological manipulation, considering she was able to severely disrupt the Darkness Devil's biology

that sounds more reasonable

 

[GunshyFever]

Which is very iffy, its just 1 vague statement

see heres the problem, makima only says that attacks wont work, which as i said earlier, might just mean that she wont stop regenerating in the darkness, not that she's outright INVULNERABLE

That's reasonable.

why do you assume that her night state activates based on the level of darkness, and not because the night comes? is that stated anywhere? thats my point

Because Santa Claus has never had any correlation to day or night, simply to darkness, in the way the concept of darkness does. I'm not at all sure what you're trying to say here. When night comes, that part of the Earth is facing away from the sun, so naturally it's going to be much darker than the previous scenario. You're not making much sense here.

based on??? who said that she only gained this supposed invulnerability when night came?(as you are proposing) all makima said is that "in the darkness" attacks wont work on her, then we have Santa claus herself say that she's in a darkness when they fell though the floors and she heals. there's no statement that says she gains invulnerability specifically in her night form, or that "more" darkness is needed for it to work

I'll refer you to read this over.

It's also important to note that Santa Claus sent her dolls to fight Denji and Quanxi while she remained behind the scenes, absorbing knowledge of the darkness and learning how to use her power. She stated that she was deepening her wisdom with the power of darkness and that she would eventually evolve through it.

What am I trying to convey? Simply put, at the time Santa Claus regenerated her arm, she had only recently acquired her powers and had not yet begun to deepen her understanding of how they truly worked. Over time, she becomes more intelligent and gains a better grasp of the power she wields as she continues to cultivate it.

Meaning, using Santa Claus as an argument against her own regen before she could fully comprehend how it functions is flawed.

As for what Makima said, all you have to do is look at context. We already went over the changes in Santa Claus regarding the disparity in darkness, so I won't press fourth considering I was clear above.

why would regeneration not allow her to hurt darkness devil?

Harm for extended periods of time. My bad.

 

[Mommyleona]

Because Santa Claus has never had any correlation to day or night, simply to darkness

things in csm can be vague and even tho its "darkness devil", he also can represent night itself (as its associated with darkness, the primal fear of darkness partially comes from our fear of the night), same as how falling devil also represents falling into depression etc

I'll refer you to read this over.

I've even re read the whole fight with the Santa claus just to be sure, this still seems like a BIG stretch

 

[GunshyFever]

things in csm can be vague and even tho its "darkness devil", he also can represent night itself (as its associated with darkness, the primal fear of darkness partially comes from our fear of the night), same as how falling devil also represents falling into depression etc

Night is not the only form of darkness, that would be counterintuitive, to make such a claim you'd need at least a clear statement. The best you could rely on in an analytical scenario is the amount of darkness she is surrounded by, which is exactly what she herself states while cultivating her power, meaning that's clearly the narrative which Fujimoto went for.

I've even re read the whole fight with the Santa claus just to be sure, this still seems like a BIG stretch

It's less about the fight itself and more about the fact that using Santa Claus as an argument against her regeneration before she even fully understood how it works is fundamentally flawed. Even when you do read the fight, there's no contradiction or flaw in her regeneration, in fact, that was one of the main plot points throughout. If you see that as a stretch and I mean no offense that reflects a lack of solid reading comprehension.

 

[Mommyleona]

The best you could rely on in an analytical scenario is the amount of darkness she is surrounded by

there's also no clear statement for that, Qanxi says that the situation is bad because of the fact that night came, she doesnt say "oh no its getting darker", and logically there's still light on the streets in the night

Santa Claus as an argument against her regeneration before she even fully understood how it works is fundamentally flawed

where was i talking about her regen? we were talking about her invulnerability

You're bringing up a version of her that isn't being discussed and doesn't even have invulnerability

based on??? who said that she only gained this supposed invulnerability when night came?(as you are proposing) all makima said is that "in the darkness" attacks wont work on her, then we have Santa claus herself say that she's in a darkness when they fell though the floors and she heals. there's no statement that says she gains invulnerability specifically in her night form, or that "more" darkness is needed for it to work

I'll refer you to read this over.

I've even re read the whole fight with the Santa claus just to be sure, this still seems like a BIG stretch

saying its a stretch was me putting it lightly even, she definitely does not have invulnerability

 

[GunshyFever]

there's also no clear statement for that, Qanxi says that the situation is bad because of the fact that night came, she doesnt say "oh no its getting darker", and logically there's still light on the streets in the night

You just proved my point once again. "Magnificent, my wounds healed instantly in the darkness" the entire point is that the more darkness Santa Claus is surrounded by, the stronger she gets. We even get an entire page showing the sky going dark as the sun sets. Santa got stronger because the darkness became far more prominent.

The lights on the streets are also going to be far less prominent than the darkness in contrast to when covered by smoke during the day while the sun is illuminating the Earth's surface. You're clinging to a headcanon here.

where was i talking about her regen? we were talking about her invulnerability
saying its a stretch was me putting it lightly even, she definitely does not have invulnerability

I...already agreed that we should ditch the invulnerability, I'm talking about layered regeneration here.

That's reasonable.

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

hmm imma bump