[R2M4] Venefica's Tier 7 Tourney: Haruka vs Cinner

[VeneficaAuthor]

Original Tourney Thread
Tourney Bracket
Votes

Character	Key	Votes
Haruka​	Base	4
Cinner	Pure Form mastery	2
Inconclusive		0

This is the last match of the second round of the VeneficaAuthor Tier 7-A/High 7-A tourney! It's Haruka from Bakuhatsu: Starting Live Over With a Boom! vs Cinner from Supreme Duelist Stickman! Winner faces the winner of Asuna vs Spagmatron.

40 meters starting distance with equal speed..

Haruka is at 7-A.
Cinner is at 7-A.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Cinner is gonna be coming in swinging with acrobatics to force his way into Haruka’s guard and 50000 degree extension to take her out even with her slight 1.7x AP advantage. I also wonder what skill feats she has to combat this. Cinner knows multiple martial arts and has invented one and has fought exceptionally gifted assassins and giants with centuries of experience plus enough skill to competently dual wield weapons. He also has his esp and analytical prediction to constantly make Haruka second guess herself as he is attacking with power moves like Shield Piercer and Lightning Breaker. He’ll be able to launch her and use his speed and agility to follow up while she’s midair, effectively pinballing her.

 

[Rayfire]

Cinner seems to be more experienced, but haruka is extremely skilled too in her own right, and possesses acrobatics of her own. He seems to have an AP advantage, but in haruka’s fight against Shizu, it was evident that she prefers to attack from a distance, though she’s more than capable of fighting at a close range as well, and can transform her scythe to meet whatever the situation calls for. Cinner might not get the opportunity to use any of the skills he has considering his limited range.

I would like to know how Cinner would deal with the void of despair? It’s basically a JJK domain expansion, and once Cinner is inside it, he’ll be subjected to his worst nightmares at the max. Conveniently enough, Cinner has a fear of water, so once inside the void of despair, he’d probably experience a tsunami washing over him or being forcefully submerged in the ocean. How would Cinner resist and escape in time before he either succumbs or gets possessed here?

 

[MintyBoi1]

Cinner seems to be more experienced, but haruka is extremely skilled too in her own right, and possesses acrobatics of her own. He seems to have an AP advantage, but in haruka’s fight against Shizu, it was evident that she prefers to attack from a distance, though she’s more than capable of fighting at a close range as well, and can transform her scythe to meet whatever the situation calls for. Cinner might not get the opportunity to use any of the skills he has considering his limited range.

I would like to know how Cinner would deal with the void of despair? It’s basically a JJK domain expansion, and once Cinner is inside it, he’ll be subjected to his worst nightmares at the max. Conveniently enough, Cinner has a fear of water, so once inside the void of despair, he’d probably experience a tsunami washing over him or being forcefully submerged in the ocean. How would Cinner resist and escape in time before he either succumbs or gets possessed here?

Cinner has plenty of experience fighting people with long range like Kernel who used a sniper rifle and even Mask who he fought at the very beginning who wielded an energy gun. And scythes are very familiar to Cinner considering his closest friend Streak uses one with dura neg capabilities and Cinner beat him. Sure Haruka’s can transform but some extra blades can’t beat out Cinner’s superior acrobatics and experience. Cinner can casually do flips and mid air jumps and his acrobatics have been enhanced by Pure Form Mastery, letting him push off the air itself to make his movement swifter.

The Void Of Despair is stated to be easily broken with enough willpower. Cinner has enough willpower to tie his life force into his staff which in verse takes immense amounts of fighting spirit and has fought with bones and organs damaged. He either sees through the illusion somehow or straight up overpowers it with his willpower and resistance to fear so great it inflicts a paralyzing fear of death upon the average person. I imagine being trapped in a void of his own fears would tick Cinner off enough to make him pound Haruka without a word who likely wouldn’t expect that technique to be broken out of.

 

[Rayfire]

Cinner can casually do flips and mid air jumps and his acrobatics have been enhanced by Pure Form Mastery, letting him push off the air itself to make his movement swifter.

Haruka should be capable of similair acrobatics feats, if not greater. We know this, since Haruka fought against Shizu in the adventurers tournament with relative ease, who could expertly dodge tens of thousands of debris in Vol 1, Chapter 3, when she and Asuna fought Kedron, which, in terms of acrobatic skill, speaks for itself, And Haruka claimed that her skill was “nothing” in comparison. Which is consistent, As Haruka frequently managed to disappear from her sight, despite similair speeds.

Therefore, I think Haruka should at least be on a similar level in terms of skill.

The Void Of Despair is stated to be easily broken with enough willpower. Cinner has enough willpower to tie his life force into his staff which in verse takes immense amounts of fighting spirit and has fought with bones and organs damaged. He either sees through the illusion somehow or straight up overpowers it with his willpower and resistance to fear so great it inflicts a paralyzing fear of death upon the average person.

It’s more to do so with willpower to overcome their fears, which is how Shizu broke out of it (Though she needed emotional amps to do it) Which, even if Cinner fears water slightly less than he used to, he hasn’t been subjected to massively huge amounts of it to the point where he’ll basically drown to my knowledge, and if he really could power through a fear like that so easily, then why is it listed as a fear of his in the first place? It seems kind of inconsistent to me

 

[MintyBoi1]

Haruka should be capable of similair acrobatics feats, if not greater. We know this, since Haruka fought against Shizu in the adventurers tournament with relative ease, who could expertly dodge tens of thousands of debris in Vol 1, Chapter 3, when she and Asuna fought Kedron, which, in terms of acrobatic skill, speaks for itself, And Haruka claimed that her skill was “nothing” in comparison. Which is consistent, As Haruka frequently managed to disappear from her sight, despite similair speeds.

Therefore, I think Haruka should at least be on a similar level in terms of skill.

It’s more to do so with willpower to overcome their fears, which is how Shizu broke out of it (Though she needed emotional amps to do it) Which, even if Cinner fears water slightly less than he used to, he hasn’t been subjected to massively huge amounts of it to the point where he’ll basically drown to my knowledge, and if he really could power through a fear like that so easily, then why is it listed as a fear of his in the first place? It seems kind of inconsistent to me

She might be on a similar level of acrobatics, but she won’t be able to move as fluidly as Cinner given his pushing off the air. And Cinner dealt with High-Flyer who also had comparable acrobatics with his unpredictable grapple moves.

In this scenario Cinner should be able to find the will to overcome his fear given the consequences if he doesn’t. He has fought in places with water with just discomfort, though the void will be harder to deal with. If he’s just suddenly drowning, he’s not gonna let himself succumb to it. He’s gonna fight his way out of it even if he has to struggle with it and in turn get to Haruka. Cinner has overcome enough fear to freeze a man, so I think he should overpower his fear here. The way I see it a fear is something to be beaten, like if I see a spider, to the shoe.

 

[Rayfire]

She might be on a similar level of acrobatics, but she won’t be able to move as fluidly as Cinner given his pushing off the air. And Cinner dealt with High-Flyer who also had comparable acrobatics with his unpredictable grapple moves.

Funnily enough, Haruka can also move around in the air like she can on the ground, so this probably puts them on equal footing again. (Vol 1 Chapter 7)

Also, In case you’re wondering, all of these scans involving fighting Haruka are from Shizu’s perspective, since the novel briefly switched to her POV ^

In this scenario Cinner should be able to find the will to overcome his fear given the consequences if he doesn’t. He has fought in places with water with just discomfort, though the void will be harder to deal with. If he’s just suddenly drowning, he’s not gonna let himself succumb to it. He’s gonna fight his way out of it even if he has to struggle with it and in turn get to Haruka. Cinner has overcome enough fear to freeze a man, so I think he should overpower his fear here.

I see. If Cinner could break out of the void of despair, Haruka wouldn’t really really be surprised by it like you mentioned earlier, since Shizu broke out of it, which isn’t really what Haruka was hoping for, but she wasn’t taken off-guard in the slightest. The same could be said for Cinner if he does wind up breaking out. However, I feel as though the void of despair might not be entirely useless even if it’s that the case, as I’ll explain soon enough.

Moving on, I feel as if I should point these out after briefly looking over cinners’ profile:

Weaknesses: It takes a lot for him to get entirely serious, especially in the excitement of a battle. An Object Bond User’s bonded item being destroyed disables the user as a part of them is lost, usually unconsciousness follows

Pure Form requires great focus and as such he can’t use forcefields in it as it’d overtax his brain

If Haruka see’s Cinner attacking with his bonded item, she’d definitely try to destroy or at least disable it somehow, and it seems that this key of Cinner requires a lot of mental focus and is technically on a time limit (He can’t just focus forever to my knowledge) so, if Cinner escapes from the void of despair after being submerged in water completely or something like that, I think even if he powers through it, it could still put him under stress, which might lead to him becoming weaker or slower. How would Cinner deal with/counter this?

 

[MintyBoi1]

Funnily enough, Haruka can also move around in the air like she can on the ground, so this probably puts them on equal footing again. (Vol 1 Chapter 7)

Also, In case you’re wondering, all of these scans involving fighting Haruka are from Shizu’s perspective, since the novel briefly switched to her POV ^

I see. If Cinner could break out of the void of despair, Haruka wouldn’t really really be surprised by it like you mentioned earlier, since Shizu broke out of it, which isn’t really what Haruka was hoping for, but she wasn’t taken off-guard in the slightest. The same could be said for Cinner if he does wind up breaking out. However, I feel as though the void of despair might not be entirely useless even if it’s that the case, as I’ll explain soon enough.

Moving on, I feel as if I should point these out after briefly looking over cinners’ profile:

Weaknesses: It takes a lot for him to get entirely serious, especially in the excitement of a battle. An Object Bond User’s bonded item being destroyed disables the user as a part of them is lost, usually unconsciousness follows

Pure Form requires great focus and as such he can’t use forcefields in it as it’d overtax his brain

If Haruka see’s Cinner attacking with his bonded item, she’d definitely try to destroy or at least disable it somehow, and it seems that this key of Cinner requires a lot of mental focus and is technically on a time limit (He can’t just focus forever to my knowledge) so, if Cinner escapes from the void of despair after being submerged in water completely or something like that, I think even if he powers through it, it could still put him under stress, which might lead to him becoming weaker or slower. How would Cinner deal with/counter this?

Cinner is a bit different as he can somewhat freely move in the air, pushing to different directions like he starts in front of you then does some mid air jumps to get behind and beside you.

Destroying Lifeline is gonna be a very hard thing to achieve given its dura scales somewhere above Cinner as it’s constantly taking attacks for him. I don’t think Haruka has any options that would really let her do it. As for Cinner’s limit, he’s pushed it from hours to days in Pure Form so getting him out of his focused state also won’t be easily achievable when he can power through injuries that would disable a normal person. Once he’s out of the Void, I think he’ll be more on edge which might make him a bit more predictable. Still, he has his moves and he should be able to pull himself back together if he’s losing even if it takes a few hits for that.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Does Haruka have any counters for Lightning Breaker which simultaneously gets Cinner close to Haruka and lets him deal two devastating attacks? I also think Shield Piercer and Metal Crush would need her to stay constantly on guard to avoid the extension. Haruka shouldn’t be able to easily tell when Cinner’s about to use it, and any hit means taking on the temperature of lightning so it’s really important she can avoid it.

 

[Rayfire]

Destroying Lifeline is gonna be a very hard thing to achieve given its dura scales somewhere above Cinner as it’s constantly taking attacks for him. I don’t think Haruka has any options that would really let her do it.

Well, if it’s constantly taking hits for him (And it can resist slicing/piercing weapons, which I’m very sure it can) What would happen if Haruka Used nullify to negate it specifically?

• Power Nullification (Via “Negate” Skill. Can use this to prevent the usage of a skill that an opponent is currently using, such as using it to disable a forcefield, stop an attack from reaching her, etc. However, this has a cooldown, and cannot be used on more than one ability at a time.)

If Haruka figured that out (Which she should, she has genius intelligence) Then one the lifeline is gone, Haruka is gonna be able to damage him directly, which should be doable, since the AP difference isn’t too big, and this would also disable most, if not all of his abilities, I presume? This would prevent Haruka with plenty of opportunities to attack and deal damage.

(The desc of Negate here is vague, since haruka’s profile was initially kinda rushed, so I should also mention that it only lasts a brief period of time, AKA 30 seconds)

As for Cinner’s limit, he’s pushed it from hours to days in Pure Form so getting him out of his focused state also won’t be easily achievable when he can power through injuries that would disable a normal person.

Fair enough, though Haruka can very likely do the same thing

Once he’s out of the Void, I think he’ll be more on edge which might make him a bit more predictable. Still, he has his moves and he should be able to pull himself back together if he’s losing even if it takes a few hits for that.

Okie dokie

Does Haruka have any counters for Lightning Breaker which simultaneously gets Cinner close to Haruka and lets him deal two devastating attacks? I also think Shield Piercer and Metal Crush would need her to stay constantly on guard to avoid the extension. Haruka shouldn’t be able to easily tell when Cinner’s about to use it, and any hit means taking on the temperature of lightning so it’s really important she can avoid it.

She has negate to disable it before it even hits her as explained above ^

She also has this:

• Forcefield Creation (Via “Absolute Defense“ Skill. Can create an invisible forcefield around her, which can stop an attack that can overwhelm her from reaching her, though she seemingly cannot attack back in this state.)

This:

• Attack Reflection, Damage Reduction, & Invulnerability (Via Blocking and parrying)

(Above is pretty vague, but think video game physics)

And a little bit of dat:

• Portal Creation (Can create dark holes in the ground to teleport herself or others anywhere she can think of, similarly to Asuna’s Riftways.)

So, she can defend or avoid those pretty easily. Lifeline has very limited range compared to Haruka, who can do a lot of things from outside cinners range, so he’d have to move in to get close, which Haruka will see and counter. And she’s also tanked a lot of heat without any trouble (Withstood Flame Magic from Emotion-amped shizu) That might not sound like a lot, but Haruka has taken hits from Shizu’s thunder magic before with zero issues before as well, so she should be more than capable of withstanding that heat from the lightning, too.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Well, if it’s constantly taking hits for him (And it can resist slicing/piercing weapons, which I’m very sure it can) What would happen if Haruka Used nullify to negate it specifically?

• Power Nullification (Via “Negate” Skill. Can use this to prevent the usage of a skill that an opponent is currently using, such as using it to disable a forcefield, stop an attack from reaching her, etc. However, this has a cooldown, and cannot be used on more than one ability at a time.)

If Haruka figured that out (Which she should, she has genius intelligence) Then one the lifeline is gone, Haruka is gonna be able to damage him directly, which should be doable, since the AP difference isn’t too big, and this would also disable most, if not all of his abilities, I presume? This would prevent Haruka with plenty of opportunities to attack and deal damage.

(The desc of Negate here is vague, since haruka’s profile was initially kinda rushed, so I should also mention that it only lasts a brief period of time, AKA 30 seconds)

Fair enough, though Haruka can very likely do the same thing

Okie dokie

She has negate to disable it before it even hits her as explained above ^

She also has this:

• Forcefield Creation (Via “Absolute Defense“ Skill. Can create an invisible forcefield around her, which can stop an attack that can overwhelm her from reaching her, though she seemingly cannot attack back in this state.)

This:

• Attack Reflection, Damage Reduction, & Invulnerability (Via Blocking and parrying)

(Above is pretty vague, but think video game physics)

And a little bit of dat:

• Portal Creation (Can create dark holes in the ground to teleport herself or others anywhere she can think of, similarly to Asuna’s Riftways.)

So, she can defend or avoid those pretty easily. Lifeline has very limited range compared to Haruka, who can do a lot of things from outside cinners range, so he’d have to move in to get close, which Haruka will see and counter. And she’s also tanked a lot of heat without any trouble (Withstood Flame Magic from Emotion-amped shizu) That might not sound like a lot, but Haruka has taken hits from Shizu’s thunder magic before with zero issues before as well, so she should be more than capable of withstanding that heat from the lightning, too.

I suppose she could try that if we’re counting the staff as a skill, though then she has to deal with Cinner’s acrobatics and martial arts skill plus his Heat aura still. I think he could force her into turning it off and pick his weapon back up. Also she may just negate the staff’s extension instead of the whole thing which would be inconvenient but not the end of the game. And if it’s only for 30 seconds, I think Cinner is fine with his prediction of her moves and experience with scythes.

Her disabling that could make things tough plus her other options, but she still has to find a way to hit a Cinner on his absolute A game. Sure she has range, but that’s not exactly the best when she can’t seem to compete while he’s up close and he can move at breakneck speeds towards her. I think once he finds out she can disable his extension, he’d try moving in more sporadic ways she couldn’t see coming like mentioned above where he starts in front then comes behind her. Throwing a feint in there could work wonders as now while she thinks disabling the extension has saved her, she’s hit in the face with a full power swing. Cinner could also try going straight above her and coming down with the momentum to stop her stopping him. And if all that fails he has

• Air Manipulation (His aura can pull people in like a Mushroom Cloud using nearby air).

Haruka doesn’t have any passive options so she’ll have to be defending from each new approach Cinner tries perfectly to not take damage. And is that thunder magic the same as natural lightning or does it just look like that because I think it needs to be specified to reach that temperature.

 

[Rayfire]

I suppose she could try that if we’re counting the staff as a skill, though then she has to deal with Cinner’s acrobatics and martial arts skill plus his Heat aura still. I think he could force her into turning it off and pick his weapon back up. Also she may just negate the staff’s extension instead of the whole thing which would be inconvenient but not the end of the game. And if it’s only for 30 seconds, I think Cinner is fine with his prediction of her moves and experience with scythes.

Haruka Can tank the heat of thunder magic (Lightning), so she’ll have no problem dealing with the heat aura. And as mentioned earlier, Haruka’s acrobatics and skill are no joke either, (Easily competing with Shizu, who, skill-wise, does impossible things like dodging very intense danmaku, whilst strategising, trying to figure out where Asuna and Kianna were since they got split up, and attacking all at the same time, etc.) and even if he has experience with scythes, he hasn’t seen multi-bladed ones before, that’s for sure. And, in general, Hands > Scythes anyways.

Furthermore, I highly doubt Haruka would make the mistake of just disabling the extension. She’s intending, in her mind, to disable the lifeline entirely, not just a specific part of it.

Her disabling that could make things tough plus her other options, but she still has to find a way to hit a Cinner on his absolute A game. Sure she has range, but that’s not exactly the best when she can’t seem to compete while he’s up close and he can move at breakneck speeds towards her. I think once he finds out she can disable his extension, he’d try moving in more sporadic ways she couldn’t see coming like mentioned above where he starts in front then comes behind her. Throwing a feint in there could work wonders as now while she thinks disabling the extension has saved her, she’s hit in the face with a full power swing. Cinner could also try going straight above her and coming down with the momentum to stop her stopping him. And if all that fails he has

Speed is equalised, so I’m not sure about Cinner moving that fast

Haruka has reactive evolution, both for stats and strategy. Even if Cinner started moving around unpredictably, there’s no reason to believe Haruka all of a sudden stands no chance of hitting him, especially with Superhuman Precision in her arsenal. You seem to think Haruka will just be dumb and fall for everything Cinner throws at her, which she probably won’t.

The only reason she got hit by Shizu after she broke out of the void of despair was because she was putting on a persona that she would stand a chance at beating her, which worked out well for Haruka. This means that, Haruka was secretly expecting all of Shizu’s moves and skills during their fight, and Haruka predicted the actions of an emotional shizu ahead of time. I don’t think Cinner moving around in random directions will be very effective for very long here. This is why she is listed as “Genius”.

• Air Manipulation (His aura can pull people in like a Mushroom Cloud using nearby air).

Haruka doesn’t have any passive options so she’ll have to be defending from each new approach Cinner tries perfectly to not take damage. And is that thunder magic the same as natural lightning or does it just look like that because I think it needs to be specified to reach that temperature.

Haruka also has air manipulation (AKA Pseudo-Telekinesis) And Dark holes to teleport herself out of the aura range. Even if Haruka can’t avoid it, she has nullify to disable it.

To answer your question, yeah, it’s real, natural lightning basically. It’s not like demon slayer where they’re just effects, since they clearly have an effect on people and the environment.

 

[MintyBoi1]

And, in general, Hands > Scythes anyways.

Furthermore, I highly doubt Haruka would make the mistake of just disabling the extension. She’s intending, in her mind, to disable the lifeline entirely, not just a specific part of it.

Speed is equalised, so I’m not sure about Cinner moving that fast

Haruka has reactive evolution, both for stats and strategy. Even if Cinner started moving around unpredictably, there’s no reason to believe Haruka all of a sudden stands no chance of hitting him, especially with Superhuman Precision in her arsenal. You seem to think Haruka will just be dumb and fall for everything Cinner throws at her, which she probably won’t.

The only reason she got hit by Shizu after she broke out of the void of despair was because she was putting on a persona that she would stand a chance at beating her, which worked out well for Haruka. This means that, Haruka was secretly expecting all of Shizu’s moves and skills during their fight, and Haruka predicted the actions of an emotional shizu ahead of time. I don’t think Cinner moving around in random directions will be very effective for very long here. This is why she is listed as “Genius”.

Haruka also has air manipulation (AKA Pseudo-Telekinesis) And Dark holes to teleport herself out of the aura range. Even if Haruka can’t avoid it, she has nullify to disable it.

To answer your question, yeah, it’s real, natural lightning basically. It’s not like demon slayer where they’re just effects, since they clearly have an effect on people and the environment.

You’re right. But for real, even if she can tank his aura, I’m not sure her darkness oriented attacks will fare the best against fire and NPI and I’m certainly not sure she can win with just 30 seconds of disabling Lifeline.

He’s rapidly pushing off the air with self-momentum which isn’t possible for Haruka so he should be able to move a decent bit faster just for the frequency of it.

I don’t think Haruka would have the option of tricking Cinner and she wouldn’t be able to predict him like that. Like said it was an emotional Shizu and Cinner has more experience/likely skill and analytical prediction on him. Sure Haruka might not fall for everything, but she’s also not gonna be dodging everything and one powerful hit could do some good damage like possibly a concussion from a headshot she’d need to heal from and in turn take less time defending from other attacks.

Her air manipulation seems more limited in scope/aoe than Cinner’s so it shouldn’t overpower his. And to get to the portals she’d have to overpower the force pulling her in. She’s possibly Class T so maybe it works but if she’s just Class G here Cinner could do it. And if she nullifies it that’s the staff back and her nullification on cooldown.

 

[Rayfire]

You’re right. But for real, even if she can tank his aura, I’m not sure her darkness oriented attacks will fare the best against fire and NPI and I’m certainly not sure she can win with just 30 seconds of disabling Lifeline.

If this is like Pokémon where certain elements work the best/worst against certain opponents, then this is kind of a paradox, since all magic in Bakuhatsu generally does the same damage, lol

He’s rapidly pushing off the air with self-momentum which isn’t possible for Haruka so he should be able to move a decent bit faster just for the frequency of it.

Well, again, Haruka can basically do the same thing with flight, and even if she isn’t as manoeuvrable somehow (Though I think she should be, since she can easily out skill Shizu, who’s literally dodged danmaku that touhou players would have nightmares about) I think she could definitely at least keep up.

I don’t think Haruka would have the option of tricking Cinner and she wouldn’t be able to predict him like that. Like said it was an emotional Shizu and Cinner has more experience/likely skill and analytical prediction on him. Sure Haruka might not fall for everything, but she’s also not gonna be dodging everything and one powerful hit could do some good damage like possibly a concussion from a headshot she’d need to heal from and in turn take less time defending from other attacks.

Well, Shizu being emotional meant that she was super unpredictable, and Haruka just… could still predict what she was going to do, she just feigned falling for some of her attacks to lure her in

Haruka can operate well out of cinners’ range to heal herself if need be, and even if she can’t, who’s saying she can’t continue dodging whilst doing it? It’s easy to use multiple skills (Like 3-4) at once as an adventurer, provided you have enough skill and focus to do so, which Haruka has a lot of.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Well, Shizu being emotional meant that she was super unpredictable, and Haruka just… could still predict what she was going to do, she just feigned falling for some of her attacks to lure her in

I would figure being emotional actually leads to higher predictability. For instance, being angry likely makes for much more straightforward attacks. I can't see how this would lead to unpredictability.

 

[MintyBoi1]

If this is like Pokémon where certain elements work the best/worst against certain opponents, then this is kind of a paradox, since all magic in Bakuhatsu generally does the same damage, lol

Well, again, Haruka can basically do the same thing with flight, and even if she isn’t as manoeuvrable somehow (Though I think she should be, since she can easily out skill Shizu, who’s literally dodged danmaku that touhou players would have nightmares about) I think she could definitely at least keep up.

Well, Shizu being emotional meant that she was super unpredictable, and Haruka just… could still predict what she was going to do, she just feigned falling for some of her attacks to lure her in

Haruka can operate well out of cinners’ range to heal herself if need be, and even if she can’t, who’s saying she can’t continue dodging whilst doing it? It’s easy to use multiple skills (Like 3-4) at once as an adventurer, provided you have enough skill and focus to do so, which Haruka has a lot of.

I’m not using Pokemon logic, just generally darkness is beaten out by light and stuff like that. Cinner also has non physical interaction to knock her stuff away and experience blocking trained snipers with enhanced technology. One of his first feats is blocking a bullet up close casually.

What flight? The most I see on her profile is hyper mobility. She doesn’t have self-momentum so I’m assuming she still needs to accelerate normally even midair. She can keep up but I don’t think she’d overturn Cinner in terms of maneuvering.

Emotional also means sloppy, so maybe it’s different for Shizu like rage power but generally it seems like that made her easier to predict.

How exactly is she getting outside of his range though? I can buy her being able to use multiple skills, but she’s gonna be getting rushed the whole time and they’re already comparable.

 

[Rayfire]

I’m not using Pokemon logic, just generally darkness is beaten out by light and stuff like that. Cinner also has non physical interaction to knock her stuff away and experience blocking trained snipers with enhanced technology. One of his first feats is blocking a bullet up close casually.

Ah, Okay. Even still, I think Haruka should be comparable at the very least. Easily beating someone that can dodge a huge amount of debris raining at them for several minutes is no joke in terms of skill either. And like i said earlier, all magic in bakuhatsu generally does the same amount of physical damage, so i don't think it'll just be blocked out by fire and light.

What flight? The most I see on her profile is hyper mobility. She doesn’t have self-momentum so I’m assuming she still needs to accelerate normally even midair. She can keep up but I don’t think she’d overturn Cinner in terms of maneuvering.

I suppose I forgot to add it to her profile, but it’s shown here. Asuna also has flight in this regard, but I suppose I just forgot to add it to haruka’s profile (I did tell venefica that it wasn’t finished, but it was accepted anyways, so lol)

Haruka also has a bunch of acrobatics abilities, including self-momentum because of the flight, but I forgot again to update that when it I did it with Asuna. Whoopsies

Emotional also means sloppy, so maybe it’s different for Shizu like rage power but generally it seems like that made her easier to predict.

I would figure being emotional actually leads to higher predictability. For instance, being angry likely makes for much more straightforward attacks. I can't see how this would lead to unpredictability.

I suppose I can see where you two are coming from, but when Shizu became emotion-amped after breaking out of the void of despair, she was now fully willing to use every surprise she had in her arsenal, but she wasn’t, like, going completely crazy either, she was still using a whole lot of strategy and quick-thinking in that fight, like using nullify to disable haruka’s absolute defence, attempting to trick her every chance she could, etc. it’s not like an angry child in real life, who would just swing about randomly. Shizu was still using common sense, even if she was pushing herself to her absolute limit.

How exactly is she getting outside of his range though? I can buy her being able to use multiple skills, but she’s gonna be getting rushed the whole time and they’re already comparable.

Like I mentioned earlier, she can always teleport away (Similairly to Asuna’s riftways) to get distance if need be or sumthin like that

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I feel like Cinner’s experience is being underestimated

 

[MintyBoi1]

Ah, Okay. Even still, I think Haruka should be comparable at the very least. Easily beating someone that can dodge a huge amount of debris raining at them for several minutes is no joke in terms of skill either. And like i said earlier, all magic in bakuhatsu generally does the same amount of physical damage, so i don't think it'll just be blocked out by fire and light.

I suppose I forgot to add it to her profile, but it’s shown here. Asuna also has flight in this regard, but I suppose I just forgot to add it to haruka’s profile (I did tell venefica that it wasn’t finished, but it was accepted anyways, so lol)

Haruka also has a bunch of acrobatics abilities, including self-momentum because of the flight, but I forgot again to update that when it I did it with Asuna. Whoopsies


I suppose I can see where you two are coming from, but when Shizu became emotion-amped after breaking out of the void of despair, she was now fully willing to use every surprise she had in her arsenal, but she wasn’t, like, going completely crazy either, she was still using a whole lot of strategy and quick-thinking in that fight, like using nullify to disable haruka’s absolute defence, attempting to trick her every chance she could, etc. it’s not like an angry child in real life, who would just swing about randomly. Shizu was still using common sense, even if she was pushing herself to her absolute limit.

Like I mentioned earlier, she can always teleport away (Similairly to Asuna’s riftways) to get distance if need be or sumthin like that

It seems Cinner will have to avoid the dark magic then. Haruka has her precision but like said Cinner has dealt with amazing precision and range beyond his before. Also gonna note that his extension goes beyond Haruka’s scythe, so she’ll need magic to beat it out.

Cinner does have Strong Leap and Lightning Breaker so he can still threaten her even while she’s midair and of course he can jump up himself and force a clash in which she’ll have it disable his staff and start it all over again. He could also maybe get a throw to bring her back to the ground and chain it into a strong hit with comparable LS and acrobatics. Though she does have portals to prevent that given she falls through in time. And he actually has fought giants with the Portal Gun, so teleporting from one spot to the next isn’t going to entirely stop him. And she can’t get the drop on him due to air sensing.

Ok so a mental block was released, that’s a better wording.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Ah, Okay. Even still, I think Haruka should be comparable at the very least. Easily beating someone that can dodge a huge amount of debris raining at them for several minutes is no joke in terms of skill either. And like i said earlier, all magic in bakuhatsu generally does the same amount of physical damage, so i don't think it'll just be blocked out by fire and light.

I suppose I forgot to add it to her profile, but it’s shown here. Asuna also has flight in this regard, but I suppose I just forgot to add it to haruka’s profile (I did tell venefica that it wasn’t finished, but it was accepted anyways, so lol)

Haruka also has a bunch of acrobatics abilities, including self-momentum because of the flight, but I forgot again to update that when it I did it with Asuna. Whoopsies

Plus how many things were forgotten? Remember that things not on the profile are illegal to use, as I made it so profiles can’t be updated mid tourney for purposes of avoiding extra powers being added that can sway matches that weren’t there when I allowed them in

(I did tell venefica that it wasn’t finished, but it was accepted anyways, so lol)

It’s self explanatory that the profile wasn’t finished since it looks like your story has pretty much just started (for instance zero of my profiles are technically finished), but even so, ‘forgetting’ important abilities to add and waiting to bring them up right now is interesting. All this acrobatics stuff should ideally have been added prior to round 1, but since it wasn’t it should have been added between her match with rotten sewage and the start of this one, and I should’ve been informed about them. I don’t remember it being brought up during the first round which means that even though she was dodging rotten’s stuff, it didn’t matter back then, so why wait to bring it now?

 

[Rayfire]

It’s self explanatory that the profile wasn’t finished since it looks like your story has pretty much just started (for instance zero of my profiles are technically finished), but even so, ‘forgetting’ important abilities to add and waiting to bring them up right now is interesting. All this acrobatics stuff should ideally have been added prior to round 1, but since it wasn’t it should have been added between her match with rotten sewage and the start of this one, and I should’ve been informed about them. I don’t remember it being brought up during the first round which means that even though she was dodging rotten’s stuff, it didn’t matter back then, so why wait to bring it now?

I wouldn't regard acrobatics as 'important' but yeah, i think i should have cleared that up beforehand, which is why i was unsure of putting an unfished profile here in the first place, though you accepted it. I only brought it up now because it came to mind, and acrobatics on it's own was probably enough to dodge rotten sewage's attacks, which is why i didn't bring up the more varied parts of it, let alone think of it, But I think i Should take a bit of time to fix that up? Mb

I meant unfinished as in, it has a few things missing, but you accepted it, so i thought it was fine until now

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I wouldn't regard acrobatics as 'important' but yeah, i think i should have cleared that up beforehand, which is why i was unsure of putting an unfished profile here in the first place, though you accepted it. I only brought it up now because it came to mind, and acrobatics on it's own was probably enough to dodge rotten sewage's attacks, which is why i didn't bring up the more varied parts of it, let alone think of it, But I think i Should take a bit of time to fix that up? Mb

I meant unfinished as in, it has a few things missing, but you accepted it, so i thought it was fine until now

It seems OP since you’re claiming it’s comparable to Cinner, and acrobatics is part of his whole thing, and according to more recent matches he’s good enough to go toe to toe with Ako (and this Cinner is definitely more advanced considering this is pure form master) it just seems pretty hard to believe that she can match it with mere flight, especially with Cinner most likely having tons more experience, and of course on top of this she has comparable Magics with Asuna

It’s not like I have a BIG problem with it, it just doesn’t sound accurate to me. How experienced is Haruka?

 

[MintyBoi1]

It seems OP since you’re claiming it’s comparable to Cinner, and acrobatics is part of his whole thing, and according to more recent matches he’s good enough to go toe to toe with Ako (and this Cinner is definitely more advanced considering this is pure form master) it just seems pretty hard to believe that she can match it with mere flight, especially with Cinner most likely having tons more experience, and of course on top of this she has comparable Magics with Asuna

It’s not like I have a BIG problem with it, it just doesn’t sound accurate to me. How experienced is Haruka?

I will say I’m not the best at laying out acrobatics feats and scaling besides laying out Cinner can do flips and has plenty of midair mobility. But yeah he has been enhanced to the point he can do sporadic movements in the air he couldn’t before. I just can’t really come up with stuff beyond that, but basically imagine him as Sonic in Frontiers because that’s what I did when adding to the form. Stuff like at 2:09 is representative of what I meant when saying he can rapidly change direction.

 

[Rayfire]

It seems OP since you’re claiming it’s comparable to Cinner, and acrobatics is part of his whole thing, and according to more recent matches he’s good enough to go toe to toe with Ako (and this Cinner is definitely more advanced considering this is pure form master) it just seems pretty hard to believe that she can match it with mere flight, especially with Cinner most likely having tons more experience, and of course on top of this she has comparable Magics with Asuna

I wasn’t saying she could match Cinner, I was trying to say that I don’t think she’d be completely outmatched in acrobatics or skill given that she can outmatch people who do things that’d be outright impossible for real life humans. Cinner slicing bullets is no joke either, I just don’t think it’s something completely out of her league.

It’s not like I have a BIG problem with it, it just doesn’t sound accurate to me. How experienced is Haruka?

Well, it’s implied that she’s a lot more experienced than your average adventurer if she got this strong seemingly on her own (Shizu is also fairly experienced, but she couldn’t get out of her comfort zone doing quests, so she was kind of stuck being super weak until Asuna came along) So I’d say a couple of years or so, which is a super long time for any adventurer given the extremely hostile environment, let alone one that goes on their own, which is why Haruka is seemingly so skilled in her fight with Shizu.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I wasn’t saying she could match Cinner, I was trying to say that I don’t think she’d be completely outmatched in acrobatics or skill given that she can outmatch people who do things that’d be outright impossible for real life humans. Cinner slicing bullets is no joke either, I just don’t think it’s something completely out of her league.

Well, it’s implied that she’s a lot more experienced than your average adventurer if she got this strong seemingly on her own (Shizu is also fairly experienced, but she couldn’t get out of her comfort zone doing quests, so she was kind of stuck being super weak until Asuna came along) So I’d say a couple of years or so, which is a super long time for any adventurer given the extremely hostile environment, let alone one that goes on their own, which is why Haruka is seemingly so skilled in her fight with Shizu.

I see, still though, I believe Cinner has far more experience, but this does clear stuff up

 

[MintyBoi1]

I wasn’t saying she could match Cinner, I was trying to say that I don’t think she’d be completely outmatched in acrobatics or skill given that she can outmatch people who do things that’d be outright impossible for real life humans. Cinner slicing bullets is no joke either, I just don’t think it’s something completely out of her league.

Well, it’s implied that she’s a lot more experienced than your average adventurer if she got this strong seemingly on her own (Shizu is also fairly experienced, but she couldn’t get out of her comfort zone doing quests, so she was kind of stuck being super weak until Asuna came along) So I’d say a couple of years or so, which is a super long time for any adventurer given the extremely hostile environment, let alone one that goes on their own, which is why Haruka is seemingly so skilled in her fight with Shizu.

Yeah, Cinner won’t be expecting her to be keeping up with his midair game considering High-Flyer and Rinser were some of the only people who could. She could definitely last for a while before he takes advantage of his skill and experience to land some devastating swings or kicks

So she’s lasted in a dangerous profession, definitely good. I will say Cinner has about 12 years of experience adding him training from 7 to 19 and has 2 years worth of fighting opponents not set up by his grandpa. Think like Korra, he was fighting but he wasn’t out there so he couldn’t fully push himself which is why taking on 70 men wasn’t that big a deal for him by the start of the story. But then there’s the tournament where he fights 5 highly trained and experienced foes, managing to conquer each one and then the timeskip where he fights the giants. There’s also his fights against Fetter and Rinser who both alone could take out the rest of the cast leaving Cinner the last line of defense.

 

[Rayfire]

Okie dokie I’ll probably just update haruka’s profile a bit to avoid confusing stuff like this. Once again, mb

 

[Froggytron]

It seems OP since you’re claiming it’s comparable to Cinner, and acrobatics is part of his whole thing, and according to more recent matches he’s good enough to go toe to toe with Ako (and this Cinner is definitely more advanced considering this is pure form master) it just seems pretty hard to believe that she can match it with mere flight, especially with Cinner most likely having tons more experience, and of course on top of this she has comparable Magics with Asuna

I have to agree with Vene on this, Cinner is one of the strongest profiles on the whole fc/oc site I have seen in terms of melee skill, and this is the strongest 7-A key Cinner we are talking about, having even more experience than the version fighting Ako

Okie dokie I’ll probably just update haruka’s profile a bit to avoid confusing stuff like this. Once again, mb

Then again we are in the middle of a tourney and in the middle of a match, so it should at maximum add more description to already mentioned abilities and skills she possesses on the profile, no new powers and no 100% new so far unmentioned uses of them, or explanations defining them

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Okie dokie I’ll probably just update haruka’s profile a bit to avoid confusing stuff like this. Once again, mb

Yeah it’s fine just needed clarification. Feats of skill for Haruka compared with Cinner would clear this all up

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Bump

 

[MintyBoi1]

Think enough time has passed for a quick TLDR.

Cinner is gonna be rushing with at least a decent bit better acrobatics and skill/experience advantage. He also has ESP and analytical prediction to read Haruka’s next move and act accordingly no matter how far she is. Haruka has a slight AP advantage, range, and hax with light darkness danmaku and portal creation. The crux of these is Cinner has seen both portals and scythe’s plus has non-physical interaction and can block trained snipers whose precision should at least be somewhat comparable to Haruka’s. Haruka also has her nullification to disable Cinner’s use of Lifeline leaving him with bare hands and heat aura which she can take for a while and air pulling her in she can potentially portal away from. Also both have regen, though Haruka’s is more instant and low-mid as opposed to high-low. Cinner can regenerate cuts basically instantly and bone damage relatively quick but organ damage should take a few hours if it ever comes down to that.

 

[Rayfire]

Yeah it’s fine just needed clarification. Feats of skill for Haruka compared with Cinner would clear this all up

I was busy earlier, but i'll get on it now

 

[MintyBoi1]

Bump

 

[Rayfire]

Think enough time has passed for a quick TLDR.

Cinner is gonna be rushing with at least a decent bit better acrobatics and skill/experience advantage. He also has ESP and analytical prediction to read Haruka’s next move and act accordingly no matter how far she is. Haruka has a slight AP advantage, range, and hax with light darkness danmaku and portal creation. The crux of these is Cinner has seen both portals and scythe’s plus has non-physical interaction and can block trained snipers whose precision should at least be somewhat comparable to Haruka’s. Haruka also has her nullification to disable Cinner’s use of Lifeline leaving him with bare hands and heat aura which she can take for a while and air pulling her in she can potentially portal away from. Also both have regen, though Haruka’s is more instant and low-mid as opposed to high-low. Cinner can regenerate cuts basically instantly and bone damage relatively quick but organ damage should take a few hours if it ever comes down to that.

Will reply in a sec

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Will reply in a sec

Anticipation

 

[Rayfire]

Think enough time has passed for a quick TLDR.

Cinner is gonna be rushing with at least a decent bit better acrobatics and skill/experience advantage. He also has ESP and analytical prediction to read Haruka’s next move and act accordingly no matter how far she is. Haruka has a slight AP advantage, range, and hax with light darkness danmaku and portal creation. The crux of these is Cinner has seen both portals and scythe’s plus has non-physical interaction and can block trained snipers whose precision should at least be somewhat comparable to Haruka’s. Haruka also has her nullification to disable Cinner’s use of Lifeline leaving him with bare hands and heat aura which she can take for a while and air pulling her in she can potentially portal away from. Also both have regen, though Haruka’s is more instant and low-mid as opposed to high-low. Cinner can regenerate cuts basically instantly and bone damage relatively quick but organ damage should take a few hours if it ever comes down to that.

Well, considering haruka’s whole weapon is about slicing and dicing people, I feel as if organ damage is inevitable for Cinner sooner or later, and nullify will leave him vulnerable to attacks that could pull that off. Haruka could also use ultimate darkness strike to cause a massive explosion that will deal a lot of damage to Cinner regardless if she can get in close or not. Considering how many years he’s been in action, the slight experience/skill edge is probably fair, though again Haruka is no slouch either, so I don’t think she’d be completely overwhelmed. Cinner is experienced with most things Haruka has as well, obviously, but I don’t think he’s encountered anything like the shadow tendrils.

• Shadow Tendrils (Can summon what is described as 'dark tendrils' out of her back, which can restrain and toss opponents around.)

And she is also shown to use multiple of these. Even if we assume she has bare minimum Class G LS, If Cinner gets caught in this, it could leave him in trouble, and his ESP won’t really matter, since Haruka could also disable his abilities through nullify, and she’ll probably attempt to decapitate him or something then. How would Cinner deal with this?

 

[MintyBoi1]

Well, considering haruka’s whole weapon is about slicing and dicing people, I feel as if organ damage is inevitable for Cinner sooner or later, and nullify will leave him vulnerable to attacks that could pull that off. Haruka could also use ultimate darkness strike to cause a massive explosion that will deal a lot of damage to Cinner regardless if she can get in close or not. Considering how many years he’s been in action, the slight experience/skill edge is probably fair, though again Haruka is no slouch either, so I don’t think she’d be completely overwhelmed. Cinner is experienced with most things Haruka has as well, obviously, but I don’t think he’s encountered anything like the shadow tendrils.

• Shadow Tendrils (Can summon what is described as 'dark tendrils' out of her back, which can restrain and toss opponents around.)

And she is also shown to use multiple of these. Even if we assume she has bare minimum Class G LS, If Cinner gets caught in this, it could leave him in trouble, and his ESP won’t really matter, since Haruka could also disable his abilities through nullify, and she’ll probably attempt to decapitate him or something then. How would Cinner deal with this?

Maybe but she’d have to work hard to get that deep a hit on him and it’s not like organ damage would be the end with his endurance. He’s taken having his stomach sliced open and used that as motivation to lock in and win the fight. And what’s ultimate darkness strike? If it’s just an explosion of darkness, that sounds like something Cinner has the durability to tank and his heat aura should mitigate damage a bit by burning it away. He can straight up nullify other people’s aura in verse, so if we’re doing any sort of equalization like magic to ki we’re good. Then again magic also exists in verse so maybe nullification won’t come into play and the aura just has to carry.

I’m not sure if I would call Cinner’s experience/skill edge slight. He has a plethora of feats like beating Kaint who has plenty on his own page and mastering Pure Form which itself is a big achievement especially considering he did it over the course of an intense battle. He had to learn all those new abilities and utilize them against someone with his weapon, unique abilities like energy sapping, and his own stuff like acrobatics and analytical prediction. I was also thinking Rinser would have some projectiles in the form of earth coating his staff that could be fired off. And correct me if this is illegal Vene, but I elaborated more and added a feat from Cinner vs Rinser where he uses his air pulling and acrobatics to trick Rinser into predicting an attack and dodging only for Cinner to change direction midair and hit him. Haruka definitely is impressive beating monsters and people with high tier hax and acrobatics, but Cinner has been through it.

Actually, he fought Fetter who used his chains to wrap people just like that. Though there he could just burn them away by the time he tapped into Pure Form, he was fighting Fetter before that and weaving around a bit. Haruka does have a LS advantage, but again heat aura should at least be able to threaten her shadows and I imagine a grab would be a bit choreographed to Cinner’s air sensing. Also he could use his aura’s air pulling to throw Haruka slightly off balance and make it easier to dodge the tendrils and engage. If they’re like Kaneki’s Kagune where there’s 4 tentacles, he should have it covered given he’s reacted to Streak’s Death Call which sends out 3 orbs that phase through one’s guard with his extension. Strong Leap could be a get out of jail free card.

And if she has a bare minimum Class G LS, Cinner is over a hundred times stronger than her since Pure Form Mastery should scale to/above High end 4th key Cinner. Also how exactly is Haruka supposed to know about Cinner’s ESP? This isn’t a JJK fight where we’re explaining powers, sensory abilities are very subtle. It would be a massive handicap if she managed to take it, but then Cinner still has Lifeline and all his other abilities and is still very competent in a fight. Like said he fought people like Kaint and Fetter before he even realized the form once plus the giants.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Maybe but she’d have to work hard to get that deep a hit on him and it’s not like organ damage would be the end with his endurance. He’s taken having his stomach sliced open and used that as motivation to lock in and win the fight. And what’s ultimate darkness strike?

Apparently large enough to encompass a huge part of rotten sewage in our thread

 

[MintyBoi1]

Apparently large enough to encompass a huge part of rotten sewage in our thread

Real shame he can’t use forcefields then. But still it’d have to straight up kill him for things to end there

 

[Rayfire]

Apparently large enough to encompass a huge part of rotten sewage in our thread

Will reply again later, but yeah, the radius of ultimate darkness strike is at least 5 miles if haruka wants to contribute to the crater feat