Raven's Durability should have a separate rating for her magical shields. Also, her tier should be listed as "varies, up to Low 7-C at peak."

[Goodyfresh]

Just what it says in the title. Whlie it is true that Raven's PHYSICAL durability is Building Level+, the fact is that she can use just as much magic power/dark energy to create a shield around herself as she can when attacking. Thus, if her AP with magic is Low 7-C, then her durability with Magical Shields should be Low 7-C as well. Her magic definitely has the same amount of potential power regardless of whether she uses it for attack or defense.

I am arguing that we should edit her page so her durability says: "Building Level+ physically, up to Small Town Level with magic shields."

The other, much bigger edit that I am proposing we make to her page, is the fact that her tier varies depending on her emotional state. The fact is that she is USUALLY depicted as being on-par with the other four Titans, i.e. somewhere around Building Level+. Her tier is only Low 7-C when at her actual peak, which is dependent upon her emotions and her current condition. This is very similar to the original version of Raven from the comics, whose tier varies extremely widely depending on the given situation.

So I am arguing that we edit her tier and Attack Potency to say "Varies. At Least 8-C/Building Level+, Up To Low 7-C at her peak."

Does anyone object to this, or should I go ahead and do the edits?

Edit: Due to some points made by Wokistan, I am going to propose that we NOT revise her overall tier, but still do revise her durability rating. See below.

 

[Wokistan]

Makes sense to me

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

I agree with the Shields part, Raven it's (despite superhuman physically) clearly a glass cannon.

However, the tier thing seems kinda iffy. Can't say much about it neither as it has been I while since I watch the show anyways.

 

[Goodyfresh]

I agree with the Shields part, Raven it's (despite superhuman physically) clearly a glass cannon.
However, the tier thing seems kinda iffy. Can't say much about it neither as it has been I while since I watch the show anyways.

Well the tier thing seems pretty obvious to me. I am an avid fan of the show and have seen most episodes several times. And I can tell you that Raven is usually portrayed as being the most powerful of the five main Titans, but at the same time being generally on-par with them rather than MUCH more powerful than them, given the fact that she fights the same enemies as them and still has plenty of trouble in a lot of those fights. Meaning that her usual levels are building-level+ or possibly Large Building level. HOWEVER, under certain circumstances when her emotions run high enough, her powers fluctuate and become far greater than usual, as was the case with the Small Town Level feat where she and Terra held up Titans Tower. This all makes tons of sense when you consider how her powers work; It is a known fact that they fluctuate with her emotions.

And oh yeah, she is most definitely a glass-cannon. But then, it is extremely common for magic-users and psychics in fiction to be glass-cannons, ya know?

So, who on here has enough authority to approve me making these edits?

 

[Wokistan]

Raven just doesn't usually use a tier 7 amount of power due to actively suppressing herslef and is usually more on par with the others. Her cutting loose is generally portrayed as incredibly destructive and dangerous, but even suppressed she's genrally above the others.

 

[Goodyfresh]

Raven just doesn't usually use a tier 7 amount of power due to actively suppressing herslef and is usually more on par with the others. Her cutting loose is generally portrayed as incredibly destructive and dangerous, but even suppressed she's genrally above the others.

Ahhhhhhhhh, good point, I didn't think of it that way. Very true that she usually holds back because it can be dangerous for her to truly cut loose. A couple of examples of this would be: That time she totally freaking curb-stomped a Trigon-empowered resurrected Slade who had just stomped the rest of the Titans, and who had stomped HER just a few episodes earlier when she was holding back like she usually does. Or, that time when she casually one-shotted Plasmus with her soul-self when she got serious, even though Plasmus would USUALLY give the Titans a difficult, long and drawn-out fight.

So I think you're right. She normally restricts herself to around the same tier as her teammates, and this is something she does intentionally so as to avoid potentially killing anyone or causing unintended consequences to her surroundings. So I am going to take back what I said about revising her overall tier, and instead just stick with revising her durability to have separate ratings for her physical body and her magical shields.

So, Wokistan, as a mod, do you have the authority to give me your approval to make the edit to her durability rating?

 

[Wokistan]

This is pretty clear cut, so I'd think you'd be fine to edit her defensive magic to her offensive capabilities. Wouldn't be a key, just a "Small Town level with shields".

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Well the tier thing seems pretty obvious to me. I am an avid fan of the show and have seen most episodes several times. And I can tell you that Raven is usually portrayed as being the most powerful of the five main Titans, but at the same time being generally on-par with them rather than MUCH more powerful than them, given the fact that she fights the same enemies as them and still has plenty of trouble in a lot of those fights. Meaning that her usual levels are building-level+ or possibly Large Building level. HOWEVER, under certain circumstances when her emotions run high enough, her powers fluctuate and become far greater than usual, as was the case with the Small Town Level feat where she and Terra held up Titans Tower. This all makes tons of sense when you consider how her powers work; It is a known fact that they fluctuate with her emotions.

Well, I gues that if you put it in that way, I can agree. However

Ahhhhhhhhh, good point, I didn't think of it that way. Very true that she usually holds back because it can be dangerous for her to truly cut loose. A couple of examples of this would be: That time she totally freaking curb-stomped a Trigon-empowered resurrected Slade who had just stomped the rest of the Titans, and who had stomped HER just a few episodes earlier when she was holding back like she usually does. Or, that time when she casually one-shotted Plasmus with her soul-self when she got serious, even though Plasmus would USUALLY give the Titans a difficult, long and drawn-out fight.

So I think you're right. She normally restricts herself to around the same tier as her teammates, and this is something she does intentionally so as to avoid potentially killing anyone or causing unintended consequences to her surroundings. So I am going to take back what I said about revising her overall tier, and instead just stick with revising her durability to have separate ratings for her physical body and her magical shields.

Shouldn't then this just be placed in her weaknesses instead then?

 

[Goodyfresh]

So I think you're right. She normally restricts herself to around the same tier as her teammates, and this is something she does intentionally so as to avoid potentially killing anyone or causing unintended consequences to her surroundings. So I am going to take back what I said about revising her overall tier, and instead just stick with revising her durability to have separate ratings for her physical body and her magical shields.

Shouldn't then this just be placed in her weaknesses instead then?
Good point. I am going to edit her durability as we discussed, and will also add to her weaknesses "usually holds back the majority of her power so as to be on-par with her teammates and most enemies, due to fear of the harm that her unchecked full power may cause." Seems legit.

Edit: I am also going to create a second key for her weaknesses corresponding to her White Raven key. The reason being that in her White Raven state, she no longer has her weakness from before, as her emotions are fully balanced and under-control when she is White Raven. That's kind of the whole point of the "true" White Raven state (the one we saw against Trigon, NOT the one we saw against Malchior), after all: It is the state that she enters ONLY under the special condition that all of her emotions are perfectly controlled and in balance with each other. Thus, her emotions are not a weakness in that state. The overall weakness of the White Raven state, however, is that it is very very difficult for her to enter the state at all, given that her emotions normally ARE a weakness. But once she is in fact in that state, then her emotions stop being a weakness.

@Wokistan: If you feel there is nothing else to add and that none of the edits I've made should be disputed, then can you go ahead and close this thread?

 

[Wokistan]

Sure. Just changed the wording for a thing a little bit.