Rayquaza's destructive capacity and durability should be dropped.

[Davy0]

Me and Uncle had a debate on this in the Rayquaza page and though he agreed with me, here are my two reasons why it should.

First off: There are too many variables about the lore of Rayquaza we don't know about. For instance, Kyogre and Groudon were intrigued and fought over the first meteoroid that came from space. Yet Rayquaza could already defeat the two beforehand with its power as its base. We don't know how strong Kyogore and Groudon were in their primal forms before the meteoroid hit in the first incident of combat against them. All we know is that, they were more powerful than in base as they were at their "peaks" of power.

Second off: Rayquaza was also known to have the ability to "frighten" the base versions of the Super-Ancient Pokemon, as seen in Emerald. Who is to say that Rayquaza could not have performed a similar feat in the first confrontation, much like how it did against the two in Emerald. Though that is less important as their is no evidence behind that and it is more of a theory.

Thoughts and responses, should Rayquaza's destructive capacity and durability become "At Least" Large Continent Level+.

 

[Quincy_King]

I don't think his stats should be dropped

 

[Antvasima]

Could you clarify why exactly you want the character placed at "Large Continent level" specifically?

 

[Davy0]

I don't want to have to try to explain it again. The Primal Reversions of Kyogre and Groudon may not have been as powerful as the versions that showed up in the battle you have with them. Why? Because the Meteoroid supplied them with enough power to change into their primal reversion forms in the third Super-Ancient Pokemon incident, and because in the second incident they were fighting for its power. Why would they fight for its power unless said meteoroid had enough power to bolster their own supplies of power. So how strong were Kyogre and Groudon in the first incident? And how do we know they were that strong?

 

[Quincy_King]

He should stay at moon level consider that Groundon and Kyogre are moon level in there base form and Rayquza casually stomped them both in his base form aslo.....

 

[Quincy_King]

And i don't know if this well mean anything but the odb has him at moon level also http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/index.php/8-character-profiles/2453-character-profile-rayquaza

 

[Davy0]

No, because Large Continent Level and Planetoid Level are two entirely different things. Hell he could only be Multi-Continent Level and we wouldn't know. And if there's an inconsistency we don't know if that's right or not. The OBD has been wrong before, the only reason why I use them is only if it makes sense, or theirs not an nconsistency in their critical thinking skills.

There is in this instance as again, we don't know the power they had before the first meteoroid came. All we do know is that once they reached it, they were capable of beating base Rayquaza until in the eleventh hour, Rayquaza gained his Mega Form.

Then how strong were they before that incident, as it easily beat THOSE VERSIONS not the versions that gained the meteoroids power. All we know is that the Primal Forms were stronger than their base forms.

 

[Kavpeny]

@Davy0:

"First off: There are too many variables about the lore of Rayquaza we don't know about. For instance, Kyogre and Groudon were intrigued and fought over the first meteoroid that came from space. Yet Rayquaza could already defeat the two beforehand with its power as its base. We don't know how strong Kyogore and Groudon were in their primal forms before the meteoroid hit in the first incident of combat against them. All we know is that, they were more powerful than in base as they were at their "peaks" of power."

Agreed. Primal Groudon and Kyogre's power levels were unknown prior to the meteor.


"Rayquaza was also known to have the ability to "frighten" the base versions of the Super-Ancient Pokemon, as seen in Emerald."

Common sense dictates that a character is scared of another character only when the other character is stronger...


@Quincy King:

"He should stay at moon level consider that Groundon and Kyogre are moon level in there base form and Rayquza casually stomped them both in his base form aslo....."

Base Groudon and Kyogre are not Moon level.

"And i don't know if this well mean anything but the odb has him at moon level also http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/index.php/8-character-profiles/2453-character-profile-rayquaza"

That profile is listed on the basis of the underlying assumption that base Rayquaza > Primal Groudon and Kyogre, which is exactly what Davy0 is calling out.


After reading the discussion between Davy0 and Unclechairma on the Rayquaza page, I have come to the conclusion that the queries raised hold merit, and I believe the appropriate new rating for base Rayquaza's Attack Potency and Durability would be: "At least Large Continent level+, possibly Moon level".

Any objections?

 

[Quincy_King]

yes....

 

[The_Everlasting]

That sounds good, but was the calculation for Groudon and Kyogre's rankings in the exatons? Because if it wasn't they'd be Continent Level, not Large Continent Level.

 

[Kavpeny]

@Quincy King: Kindly elaborate.

 

[Davy0]

I understand that them being frightened by Rayquaza means that it is superior, does not mean that it's a "Moon Buster" it means that it has a power that could be considered much higehr than their own, and that's undisputed, but Moon Level could possibly be pushing it.

Otherwise yep, I getcha. No objections on this end.

 

[Quincy_King]

It was calced at 74.04 exatons

 

[The_Everlasting]

I meant for their bases, as according to their profiles, Groudon raised entire continents, but I don't know if the calc had exatons as the conclusion or petatons.

 

[Quincy_King]

It's just that Groundon and Kyorge are moon level in there base froms and rayquaza stomped them both in his base form....

 

[The_Everlasting]

But Groudon and Kyogre in base are Large Continent Level.

 

[Antvasima]

74.04 exatons is Multi-Continent level afaIk.

 

[Quincy_King]

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=24970 , we're using there ORAS Versions

 

[The_Everlasting]

Actually 74.04 exatons is Moon Level, I just wanted to know how powerful their base was.

 

[Quincy_King]

There Moon level in Base, since the feat happend when groundon was in his base form

 

[The_Everlasting]

Well it appears no one updated their profiles.

 

[Davy0]

Did you thoroughly read the lore of the Primal Reversion Super Ancients, Quincy? They were in their Primal Reversion forms, yes. However, before the Meteoroid came, they weren't as powerful as they were in their first confrontations with one another. Why? Because they were fighting over gaining the power of the Meteoroid for themselves, which means that they used the power the Meteoroid possessed to INCREASE their power. The same thing they do in the third Super-Ancient Confrontation. Meaning that the Meteoroid could have made them the level we know them as today.

 

[Antvasima]

7.404 x 10^19 tons of TNT = Moon level. Right you are. Sorry.

 

[Quincy_King]

^it's fine

 

[SwordSlayer99]

Moon level starts at 20 Exatons.

 

[Kavpeny]

Hmm...then it turns out that Kyogre and Groudon's profiles have not been updated instead?

 

[Quincy_King]

^IMO none of those profiles need to updated there fine the way they are

 

[Davy0]

Uh... Houston, you have an issue .

 

[Sheoth]

I think they were fine honestly...

 

[Davy0]

Except again, and it's still an issue. How strong were they before the meteoroid came? How strong was Rayquaza before fighting against their enhanced forms after increasing? Again, even after that, I just posted up the profile for Groudon, and the point still stands, they even state the artificial sun into the reason it gains Continent Level + in the first place.

So once more, I will ask. Can anyone tell me how strong Kyogre and Groudon are in Primal Forms before the Meteoroid incident. Because there's still changing to be done if you can't, nothing changes about what I posted.

 

[Davy0]

Come on guys, it's a quick fix.

 

[Sheoth]

Hmm... I will post some more on this. However, I will do so tomorrow, due to it being a bit late for me at present.

 

[Unclechairman]

So, downgrade or no downgrade?

 

[Davy0]

I say Downgrade unless someone can prove how strong they were.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't know enough about the franchise to make a call. My mind is too splintered and distracted from focusing on too many things here at once to take the time to digest the matter thoroughly.

 

[Antvasima]

What do the rest of you think?

 

[Quincy_King]

I say no downgrade

 

[Davy0]

Then you need to show proof of how strong they are Quincy because I just showed Groudon being only Large Continent Level when you stated that in base they were Moon Level. There is no reference to how strong they were before the meteoroid in Pokemon, only after the fact when Groudon destroyed the sun it created in its Primal Form. And I'm thinking you have nothing to show for it being a downgrade because I just read thoroughly again Zinnia's references.

 

[Antvasima]

All right. I have mostly forgotten the basis for this discussion by now, so please forgive a stupid question, but if the characters that Rayquaza is power-scaled from were calculated as Moon level, why do you still wish to downgrade it?

 

[The_Everlasting]

It was because he fought Primal Groudon and Kyogre when they were much weaker than they were when they had Moon Level feats.