Re:Zero Moon+ Calc Downgrade

[MrTayman616]

The calculation: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_bloghantomØ4/Re:_Zero_Starting_And_Ending_Blizzards_In_Another_World#Reinhard_clears_the_sky

This is a thread to remove the current distance accepted for the calculation.

Spoiler: The current assumption

There’s also a better version of this feat where Puck drops the temperature down to absolute zero form what should be a much greater distance though it is unknown by how much exactly. However, Subaru in the novel had thought that even if he could contact Reinhard the 4 1/2 days that he had would never be enough for Reinhard to arrive because he was too far away . In this feat Reinhard noticed on his own and showed up to slay Puck (if only Subaru knew Reinhard could just run that distance in minutes...). So now, considering that Subaru would have contacted with an immediate life or death (world ending even???!?!?!!?!?1111) and that Reinhard can go on 7 days without rest...

Q: Happy Birthday, Reinhard! Also, Happy New Year! A question: If Reinhard tried to pull an all-nighter without sleeping, how many days could he do it? A: I thought of saying as many days as he wants, but that's too much even for him. I think he could stay up for around a week, but he's sleep like normal after that. It's just, even if you try a surprise attack when he's sleeping, a blessing would wake him up so you can't defeat him.

There is a few problem with this in my opinion.

First of all, like the problem with the first assumption, this assumes that the character will go straight to the mansion. This is inaccurate as Subaru's belief here is that "first he has to reach Reinhard, then Reinhard will go to the Capital from Astrea house, and then he'll go to the mansion from there". We don't know how long it'd take for Subaru to contact Reinhard as well, so it shouldn't work based on this assumption.

It has another problem like the first assumption here again (what the second assumption fixed). Normally it doesn't even take long if you go directly, which is around 6 hours based on the description. The road is not usable, which is why Subaru and Rem took a longer route. Even in later loops, he still consider the timing based on the longer path.

Also, it doesn't make sense considering Reinhard left the Capital two days ago. If we say he follows the accepted route, It'd take at worst two days for him to come back, and an extra 6 hours to complete the entire distance which is half the current assumption.

It doesn't make sense for Reinhard to take the shortest path (from Subaru's expectations), and even if he did, he would reach a lot sooner regardless. We can say something about how long it takes to contact Reinhard, but that works both ways as that would actually shorten the time Subaru thinks they have.

The last one is, as far as i know, Subaru doesn't even know Reinhard can last that long without any sleep. (Especially around this time of the story)

Edit:
We don't know how Reinhard became aware of it at all. Did the storm reach him? Someone contacted him through media? His intuition? He went somewhere else and saw it? Maybe the storm moves extremely slow and people actually had enough time to contact Reinhard before it even reached Astrea Mansion.

So, assumptions here are wrong regardless since there is no proof that the storm even reached there.

Edit 2: There isn't even a mention of Reinhard actually pushing the clouds in the novel as far as i'm aware. For anime and manga version: in the manga, the clouds move but not the entire mass, they're slashed and then slowly move apart(most of it doesn't even appear to be based on his slash alone). In the anime, We don't see it being the case as well, the clouds move but clearly not all mass or similar to the way in the calc.

Based on these, i don't think the current assumptions should be used.

 

[Kachon123]

Do you have any alternative methods in mind?

 

[MrTayman616]

Do you have any alternative methods in mind?

I had some thoughts but none of them covers everything.

At worst, we'll have to use the values of this assumption since using the distance between the mansion and capital is a guaranteed result.

 

[Kachon123]

So around 6-A to High 6-A.

 

[Drite77]

Don't really know Re Zero so I'll wait for more input

 

[Arkenis]

Could I message you about something else?

Edit: In regards to the blog

 

[MrTayman616]

Could I message you about something else?

Edit: In regards to the blog

If you're referring to me, sure. send DM.

 

[Arkenis]

No it's okay, I decided this thread would also take it into account so I'll just say here.

Okay so reading the novel page for Reinhard's cloud split. His sword isn't just some strong slash sword, it's got tons of hax involved like law hax, spatial hax, cm2 hax, etc. Unless the anime is strict canon and we're ignoring what the sword's power is as stated in the novel it does way more, why are we treating his attack as if he's just pushing the clouds? He's deadass erasing it and the novel says as much.

But okay anime shows the clouds instead being moved omnidirectional. Phantom's calc accounts for two parts pushed away like the novel implies, but uses anime timeframe for the omnidirectional push. If the feat's still to be used with the anime's depiction, this should be accounted for.

 

[PhantomØ4]

I notified Zabzab, most of the info/assumptions I got from them. I also had an issue with the calc but they said they'd try to upgrade Rein anyways so I did not bother.

 

[Huesito88]

I notified Zabzab, most of the info/assumptions I got from them. I also had an issue with the calc but they said they'd try to upgrade Rein anyways so I did not bother.

Upgrade how?

 

[PhantomØ4]

Upgrade how?

I dunno. I just help now and then with things I get told cuz I am curious about the series but I’m anime only casual. Zabzab said they were busy with fixing profiles first though.

I dunno if you lot would consider the anime scene to be useful if you do end up considering the slash’s effects to be hax. It seems to me like it’s before he swings the sword, just the activation of the beam generating that much force since it seems like it’s due to the shockwave it generates and the clouds actually get thicker as the mass piles up despite getting further from the camera.

I can recalculate it based on that and only the anime visuals.

 

[PhantomØ4]

but uses anime timeframe for the omnidirectional push. If the feat's still to be used with the anime's depiction, this should be accounted for.

Actually, the calc for splitting in two parts uses 5 seconds. I just forgot to delete the frame method or left it there as part of the process, I don't really remember. Just look at the actual math.

I assumed 5 seconds initially and then CGMs told me to use Anime timeframe but then took back that statement so it was a bit confusing.

 

[Zabazab]

We couldn't directly find how far the Astrea Domain was before, but it should be possible now. To clarify: I'm in favour of the 4.5 days used in the calculation remaining, just for different reasons, as Reinhard would be at least that far away once Puck started the apocalypse. Puck's storm could expand faster or slower than a dragon carriage, but that an unknown increase to the size of the storm. Bottom line is that the current distance is the lowest assumption and the reasoning just has to change to reflect that.

Roswaal's 1st mansion is 6 hours north/north-east of the Royal Capital as stated in the OP. The Royal Capital is roughly in the center of Lugunica, and crossing (nearly) all of Lugunica from west to east takes around 30 days (10 days from the western-most city to Roswaal's 2nd mansion, 20 days from Roswaal's 2nd mansion to eastern-most town) by dragon carriage.

In arc 9, Aldebaran was ambushed 10 kilometers west from the sand dunes 6 hours after he dealt with Reinhard. The people who ambushed them were Felt's Camp alongside people from Flanders, a city which is several hours away from the Astrea Mansion, where the Felt Camp was originally.

This all means that the Astrea mansion where Reinhard was at in arc 3 was like at most 12 hours west/south-west of the sand dunes, which in turn is about 15 days travel from the Royal Capital. Basically a two-week journey between Astrea Mansion and Roswaal's 1st mansion by dragon carriage, aka Reinhard and Puck's locations.

(Will add scans today, was caught a bit unprepared but Just Trust Me on my info)

 

[Lilybitdun]

We couldn't directly find how far the Astrea Domain was before, but it should be possible now.

Roswaal's 1st mansion is 6 hours north/north-east of the Royal Capital as stated in the OP. The Royal Capital is roughly in the center of Lugunica, and crossing (nearly) all of Lugunica from west to east takes around 30 days (10 days from the western-most city to Roswaal's 2nd mansion, 20 days from Roswaal's 2nd mansion to eastern-most town) by dragon carriage.

In arc 9, Aldebaran was ambushed 10 kilometers west from the sand dunes 6 hours after he dealt with Reinhard. The people who ambushed them were Felt's Camp alongside people from Flanders, a city which is several hours away from the Astrea Mansion, where the Felt Camp was originally.

This all means that the Astrea mansion where Reinhard was at in arc 3 was like at most 12 hours west/south-west of the sand dunes, which in turn is about 15 days travel from the Royal Capital. Basically a two-week journey between Astrea Mansion and Roswaal's 1st mansion by dragon carriage, aka Reinhard and Puck's locations.

(Will add scans today, was caught a bit unprepared but Just Trust Me on my info)

Man that's some crazy detective work to find distance, non audio-visual verses really have it tough lmao

What would a two-week journey mean for Reinhard? I know like 99% of the verse scales to superhuman in traversal speed. Also since he can at max stay up for a week that means rest is going to have to be factored in as well

 

[Zabazab]

What would a two-week journey mean for Reinhard?

He travelled that exact distance and then-some in a couple of minutes. Carried a carriage from the Royal Capital to the Astrea Domain, dropped it off and ran to the Pleiades Watchtower at the eastern edge of the sand dunes:

After that, it was a race against time, as Felt worked Reinhard as hard as possible.

Carrying the dragon carriage that Grassis and the others had found, Reinhard went from the Royal Capital to the Augria Sand Dunes in a single flight, sending them to the Astrea Domain en route.

Reinhard: [I am leaving now, Felt-sama!]

Felt: [Go make a show of it and beat him down a hundred times over!!]

Truthfully, even with Reinhard’s Divine Protection of Wind Evasion, she had not wanted to experience that emergency trip again, but it had undoubtedly been worthwhile to make the detour. —Arc 9 Chapter 18

 

[MrTayman616]

We couldn't directly find how far the Astrea Domain was before, but it should be possible now.

Roswaal's 1st mansion is 6 hours north/north-east of the Royal Capital as stated in the OP. The Royal Capital is roughly in the center of Lugunica, and crossing (nearly) all of Lugunica from west to east takes around 30 days (10 days from the western-most city to Roswaal's 2nd mansion, 20 days from Roswaal's 2nd mansion to eastern-most town) by dragon carriage.

In arc 9, Aldebaran was ambushed 10 kilometers west from the sand dunes 6 hours after he dealt with Reinhard. The people who ambushed them were Felt's Camp alongside people from Flanders, a city which is several hours away from the Astrea Mansion, where the Felt Camp was originally.

This all means that the Astrea mansion where Reinhard was at in arc 3 was like at most 12 hours west/south-west of the sand dunes, which in turn is about 15 days travel from the Royal Capital. Basically a two-week journey between Astrea Mansion and Roswaal's 1st mansion by dragon carriage, aka Reinhard and Puck's locations.

This has the exact problem, no?

Also it's logically not possible as Reinhard+Felt camp left two days ago. So that would be wrong regardless. Subaru thought the entire process had a very low chance, he still believes he could actually reach to Reinhard who's in the Astrea Mansion.

We don't even know if Puck's storm even reached the Astrea House as well, we have no info about it(as far as i know). We don't even know how Reinhard became aware of it either.

So, even saying it actually reached Astrea House isn't really accurate here.

(I'll still wait for the scans :d)

 

[Zabazab]

Also it's logically not possible as Reinhard+Felt camp left two days ago.

If they left two days ago, then that adds two days of travel to the minimum distance I suppose.

Subaru thought the entire process had a very low chance, he still believes he could actually reach to Reinhard who's in the Astrea Mansion.

This isn't saying Subaru actually could reach Reinhard, he's speaking hypothetically because he thinks that, even if he could somehow contact Reinhard, he'd be too far away to actually reach Roswaal Mansion in time.

We don't even know if Puck's storm even reached the Astrea House as well, we have no info about it(as far as i know). We don't even know how Reinhard became aware of it either.

It doesn't have to get to the Astrea Domain if it reached Felt's Camp on the road to Astrea Mansion, which it would have done if Puck began the apocalypse 4 (or 6?) days after they hit the road. And I think the simplest way for Reinhard to become aware of it is just to see the expanding storm. Even if he's superhuman, I doubt Reinhard's vision lets him see things more than like ten-odd kilometers away.

 

[MrTayman616]

If they left two days ago, then that adds two days of travel to the minimum distance I suppose.

To which timeframe? Or you're just saying it'd at least take two days overall?

This isn't saying Subaru actually could reach Reinhard, he's speaking hypothetically because he thinks that, even if he could somehow contact Reinhard, he'd be too far away to actually reach Roswaal Mansion in time.

Subaru claims even if he were to reach Reinhard somehow and then uses the capital's distance to Astrea House.

If we say contact which is very likely i guess, they're still already considered to be in the Astrea House, the timeframe of two days here and Subaru's limited time doesn't change. (Since Reinhard can come back in two days at most, and use the shortest distance for 6 hours which would be 54 hours, or say the longer route which is 2.5 day which suits Subaru's expectations of it being a low chance i guess? So i guess using 54 hours fits)

It doesn't have to get to the Astrea Domain if it reached Felt's Camp on the road to Astrea Mansion

It doesn't have to the same way it doesn't even have to be visible to Reinhard. We have no way of knowing anything about this, maybe someone else said it, maybe contacting via special methods, even possible Reinhard himself just figured it out based on a "hunch" which he's actually able to do. There are many possibilities, which the storm itself reaching to the Astrea Domain isn't better or worse than any other assumption.

(If we were to say Reinhard only became aware of it when it reached Astrea Mansion like how the calculation assumes, we can use two days + 6 hours for the timing since it took at most two days for Felt Camp to go from Capital to Astrea House, and the shortest known path between capital and mansion is six hours which Reinhard doesn't even need to use here since the point is to find the distance i guess?)

I guess two days and six hours might fit.

If so, it'd be

Radius: 4540.90909 km
Area: 64779186128510 m^2
Mass: 171,300,936,955,414,600 kg
Speed: 908181.818 m/s
Energy = 7.0644011e28 Joule

If i didn't make any mistake.

 

[Zabazab]

To which timeframe?

The currently-used one.

Subaru claims even if he were to reach Reinhard somehow and then uses the capital's distance to Astrea House.

If we say contact which is very likely i guess, they're still already considered to be in the Astrea House, the timeframe of two days here and Subaru's limited time doesn't change. (Since Reinhard can come back in two days at most, and use the shortest distance for 6 hours which would be 54 hours, or say the longer route which is 2.5 day which suits Subaru's expectations of it being a low chance i guess? So i guess using 54 hours fits)

This is all true but a bit of an unrelated train of thought to the actual topic (Reinhard dispersing Puck's storm); Subaru can't contact Reinhard, Reinhard wasn't contacted, and Puck doesn't start the apocalypse for another 4.5 days from that point in time. It's not related to Puck.

It doesn't have to the same way it doesn't even have to be visible to Reinhard. We have no way of knowing anything about this, maybe someone else said it, maybe contacting via special methods, even possible Reinhard himself just figured it out based on a "hunch" which he's actually able to do. There are many possibilities, which the storm itself reaching to the Astrea Domain isn't better or worse than any other assumption.

Cecilus was in the middle of experiencing the Great Disaster, and then followed his hunch to find the perpatrator. Not really the same situation. Especially since Reinhard didn't act despite the world-ending nature of Sphinx's Great Disaster.

If we were to say Reinhard only became aware of it when it reached Astrea Mansion

I'm saying it likely did not reach Astrea Mansion, because Astrea Mansion is around a fortnight's travel from the Capital based on detective work. Reinhard would have detected Puck's storm wile on the road to the Astrea Mansion, given he was at most 6.5 days travel away from the Capital when Puck started the apocalypse.

 

[MrTayman616]

The currently-used one.

Huh, that wouldn't add anything to it though?

This is all true but a bit of an unrelated train of thought to the actual topic (Reinhard dispersing Puck's storm); Subaru can't contact Reinhard, Reinhard wasn't contacted, and Puck doesn't start the apocalypse for another 4.5 days from that point in time. It's not related to Puck.

He can't contract him, but Subaru's thinking is based on "If i could reach Reinhard somehow" which is the entire basis of the calculation itself. (4.5 days is justified here based on this)

Cecilus was in the middle of experiencing the Great Disaster, and then followed his hunch to find the perpatrator. Not really the same situation. Especially since Reinhard didn't act despite the world-ending nature of Sphinx's Great Disaster.

Reinhard law :d (Not saying that's the reason or anything)

I was just giving an example for how much likely situation there can be.

I'm saying it likely did not reach Astrea Mansion, because Astrea Mansion is around a fortnight's travel from the Capital based on detective work. Reinhard would have detected Puck's storm wile on the road to the Astrea Mansion, given he was at most 6.5 days travel away from the Capital when Puck started the apocalypse.

Reinhard is already considered to be in Astrea Mansion by Subaru here. (He literally considers the distance of Astrea Domain here as well, while knowing they left two days ago which just shows that to be the case)

 

[Zabazab]

Huh, that wouldn't add anything to it though?

2 days + 4.5 days = 6.5 days.

but Subaru's thinking

just for different reasons, as Reinhard would be at least that far away once Puck started the apocalypse. Puck's storm could expand faster or slower than a dragon carriage, but that an unknown increase to the size of the storm. Bottom line is that the current distance is the lowest assumption and the reasoning just has to change to reflect that.

Reinhard law

He showed up in Kararagi without any hesitation in breaking the law.

Reinhard is already considered to be in Astrea Mansion by Subaru here. (He literally considers the distance of Astrea Domain here as well, while knowing they left two days ago which just shows that to be the case)

First, Subaru does not know where the Astrea Mansion is if no one has told him— even being two days away would be fatal in Subaru's mind, since it would take 2 days to send a message there, 2 days to return to the Capital, and 2.5 days to take to detour to Roswaal Mansion.

Second, even if the Felt Camp is still travelling, naturally catching up is much harder since you're effectively closing zero distance until they arrive at Astrea Mansion.

 

[MrTayman616]

2 days + 4.5 days = 6.5 days.

Not what i meant. 4.5 day already covers it.

just for different reasons, as Reinhard would be at least that far away once Puck started the apocalypse. Puck's storm could expand faster or slower than a dragon carriage, but that an unknown increase to the size of the storm. Bottom line is that the current distance is the lowest assumption and the reasoning just has to change to reflect that

It isn't the "least" though since it's mistaken in day count.

He showed up in Kararagi without any hesitation in breaking the law.

Felt was there (Still doesn't change anything. Just giving example)

First, Subaru does not know where the Astrea Mansion is if no one has told him— even being two days away would be fatal in Subaru's mind, since it would take 2 days to send a message there, 2 days to return to the Capital, and 2.5 days to take to detour to Roswaal Mansion

Subaru literally adds the distance of Astrea Mansion in his thinking process.

Also that's not it. It's 2 days to send the message, 2 days to return to the capital and 6 hours to go to the mansion.

The longer path doesn't affect the actual distance. Just the distance Reinhard has to travel which doesn't affect the radius of the storm.

It would take at least 54 hours for Reinhard to go there normally, not 108(the current value)

Second, even if the Felt Camp is still travelling, naturally catching up is much harder since you're effectively closing zero distance until they arrive at Astrea Mansion.

I didn't say they're still travelling... right? (since it doesn't make sense entirely :d)

 

[Zabazab]

You keep speaking in terms of Subaru hypothetically contacting Reinhard which does not matter, because in no loop did that actually happen. Basically nothing Subaru thinks matters to this calculation anymore.

Reinhard was not contacted. He left 2 days ago. Another 4 and a half days pass until Puck starts the apocalypse. Therefore Reinhard is 6 and a half days away. He would then keep travelling, although we don't know how far given we don't know how fast Puck's frozen world expands— that's why we would use that minimum distance.

 

[MrTayman616]

You keep speaking in terms of Subaru hypothetically contacting Reinhard which does not matter, because in no loop did that actually happen. Basically nothing Subaru thinks matters to this calculation anymore.

The entire basis of the calculation is this.

However, Subaru in the novel had thought that even if he could contact Reinhard the 4 1/2 days that he had would never be enough for Reinhard to arrive because he was too far away

Reinhard was not contacted. He left 2 days ago. Another 4 and a half days pass until Puck starts the apocalypse. Therefore Reinhard is 6 and a half days away. He would then keep travelling, although we don't know how far given we don't know how fast Puck's frozen world expands— that's why we would use that minimum distance.

This is wrong regardless if someone contacted Reinhard or not.

I'm not claiming that they contacted him or anything. Reinhard being contacted is irrelevant.

"He left 2 days ago. Another 4 and a half days pass until Puck starts the apocalypse. Therefore Reinhard is 6 and a half days away." What kind of logic is that? This heavily depends on the fact that Reinhard is still on the road and moving rather than being in Astrea Domain, which is wrong as even Subaru who includes the distance of Astrea Domain for his plan and considers that Reinhard+Felt camp already reached there based on it.

Saying "But they didn't contact him" doesn't matter since distance is still the same regardless.

The distance between Capital and Reinhard takes two days, the distance between capital and mansion takes 6 hours.

The correct timeframe here is 2 days and 6 hours.

 

[Zabazab]

The entire basis of the calculation is this.

Read my first message again, I did quote it too.

"He left 2 days ago. Another 4 and a half days pass until Puck starts the apocalypse. Therefore Reinhard is 6 and a half days away." What kind of logic is that? This heavily depends on the fact that Reinhard is still on the road and moving rather than being in Astrea Domain, which is wrong as even Subaru who includes the distance of Astrea Domain for his plan and considers that Reinhard+Felt camp already reached there based on it.

Obviously he was still on the road because Astrea Domain is like 2 weeks travel away. Subaru is ignorant about even more basic things in this world like the five great cities, and obviously does not know where Astrea Domain is, nor does anyone tell him where it is.

All he knows is that Reinhard already left 2 days ago, which means there's not enough time for Reinhard to return (4.5 day limit). Don't argue about the highway blocked by mist by the way, Subaru doesn't consider it an option (says he effectively only has 2 days since the detour is 2.5 days) in volume 6 until after he's already failed to get help from the candidates and recruits the merchants in A Pig's Greed (resulting in total failure due to the White Whale attack).

 

[MrTayman616]

Read my first message again, I did quote it too.

You mean this one, no?

I'm in favour of the 4.5 days used in the calculation remaining, just for different reasons, as Reinhard would be at least that far away once Puck started the apocalypse. Puck's storm could expand faster or slower than a dragon carriage, but that an unknown increase to the size of the storm. Bottom line is that the current distance is the lowest assumption and the reasoning just has to change to reflect that.

Obviously he was still on the road because Astrea Domain is like 2 weeks travel away. Subaru is ignorant about even more basic things in this world like the five great cities, and obviously does not know where Astrea Domain is, nor does anyone tell him where it is.

"considering the distance between capital and astrea mansion"

Subaru not knowing about other cities etc is irrelevant since he has no reason to even care about those. This one is different, Subaru specifically searches for Reinhard and needs him. His thought process quite literally shows that he's aware of the distance. (Any other way doesn't make sense since that even means Reinhard could have been just a kilometer away from the capital and Subaru would still think Reinhard can't do anything here since he knows absolutely nothing which is contradictory to every claim)

All he knows is that Reinhard already left 2 days ago, which means there's not enough time for Reinhard to return (4.5 day limit). Don't argue about the highway blocked by mist by the way, Subaru doesn't consider it an option (says he effectively only has 2 days since the detour is 2.5 days) in volume 6 until after he's already failed to get help from the candidates and recruits the merchants in A Pig's Greed (resulting in total failure due to the White Whale attack).

I'm not saying Reinhard will follow that route, i said it for the size of the storm. Subaru not considering the shortest path since it being not usable is irrelevant since using the longer path doesn't affect the actual distance between mansion and capital.

To make it more clear. The distance between Mansion and Capital is 504.545455 kilometers. This will not change regardless of how many hours it'd take for Reinhard to the mansion from the capital.

 

[MrTayman616]

Also, even then assumptions are still wrong.

We don't know how Reinhard became aware of it at all. Did the storm reach him? Someone contacted him through media? His intuition? He went somewhere else and saw it? Maybe the storm moves extremely slow and people actually had enough time to contact Reinhard before it even reached Astrea Mansion.

So, assumptions here are wrong regardless since there is no proof that the storm even reached there.

 

[Zabazab]

"considering the distance between capital and astrea mansion"

Subaru not knowing about other cities etc is irrelevant since he has no reason to even care about those. This one is different, Subaru specifically searches for Reinhard and needs him. His thought process quite literally shows that he's aware of the distance.

This doesn't actually say how far it is, just says the distance is fatal. And yeah a fortnight's journey IS fatal. There is no mention of how far or long it takes to get to Hakuchuri hence why we need to find out using arc 9 info.

Subaru not considering the shortest path since it being not usable is irrelevant

You keep flip-flopping on what you're talking about, and you keep getting confused between Subaru's thought process and true distance. Subaru saying there's not enough time if Reinhard already left two days ago makes sense because Subaru is taking the detour into account— I'm telling you this is not related to actual distance, the size of Puck's storm, or Reinhard's actual route (a logical straight line).

I will tell you for a final time: Subaru's thoughts DO NOT MATTER. Hakuchuri is around two weeks away by deduction, the smallest distance if Reinhard detects the storm by sight (the simplest option) is the two days he travelled plus the four and a half days until the apocalypse starts.

Also, even then assumptions are still wrong.

Repeating yourself again isn't helpful. You're just arguing there shouldn't be a calc at all with that line, which if that's your real opinion just argue that instead.

 

[MrTayman616]

This doesn't actually say how far it is, just says the distance is fatal. And yeah a fortnight's journey IS fatal. There is no mention of how far or long it takes to get to Hakuchuri hence why we need to find out using arc 9 info.

Except Subaru's reasoning for calling it fatal isn't even remotely comparable to "fortnight's journey is fatal".

Reinhard+Felt Camp left two days ago. Subaru thinks the possibility of success of "Reach Reinhard, Reinhard will go from Astrea Mansion to Capital, and then to Roswaal's Mansion from there" is very low, very low within 4.5 days. Reinhard is already considered to be in Astrea Mansion here after two days.

Assuming they contacted immediately and happened in an instant, 2 days to come back, 2.5 days to go from the longer path which barely fits. Assuming contact takes longer(which it would), it would be desperatingly low as Subaru says.

You keep flip-flopping on what you're talking about, and you keep getting confused between Subaru's thought process and true distance. Subaru saying there's not enough time if Reinhard already left two days ago makes sense because Subaru is taking the detour into account— I'm telling you this is not related to actual distance, the size of Puck's storm, or Reinhard's actual route (a logical straight line).

Subaru taking the detour into account doesn't even change it

Also completely illogical. Since Reinhard left two days ago, he can come back the same.

Assuming they contacted immediately and happened in an instant, 2 days to come back, 2.5 days to go from the longer path which barely fits. Assuming contact takes longer(which it would), it would be desperatingly low as Subaru says. Unless space warps itself at some point to make the distance higher or something.

Subaru himself thinks it based on the actual distance, so i don't even understand why it'd be like that.

I will tell you for a final time: Subaru's thoughts DO NOT MATTER. Hakuchuri is around two weeks away by deduction, the smallest distance if Reinhard detects the storm by sight (the simplest option) is the two days he travelled plus the four and a half days until the apocalypse starts.

The simplest option is wrong then. Since we don't even know how Reinhard came to find out about it.

Repeating yourself again isn't helpful. You're just arguing there shouldn't be a calc at all with that line, which if that's your real opinion just argue that instead.

Not my argument at all. My claim is that the current assumption is wrong. None of my arguments even imply "there shouldn't be any calc about this" or anything

We don't know how Reinhard became aware of it at all. Did the storm reach him? Someone contacted him through media? His intuition? He went somewhere else and saw it? Maybe the storm moves extremely slow and people actually had enough time to contact Reinhard before it even reached Astrea Mansion.

So, assumptions here are wrong regardless since there is no proof that the storm even reached there.

These are valid imo. At the very least, Reinhard's distance to Puck can't even be used.

 

[Naito-desu]

I was asked to comment. If the current assumptions are wrong or erroneous, may I be reminded of what the new assumptions being proposed, sorry, I don't have time to read the thread in detail.

 

[MrTayman616]

I was asked to comment. If the current assumptions are wrong or erroneous, may I be reminded of what the new assumptions being proposed, sorry, I don't have time to read the thread in detail.

I mean, they're wrong imo (not saying everyone claims it's wrong or anything). I have two proposal.

The first one is simply using 504.545454545 kilometers, the distance to the Capital for mansion, which is probably the best one imo since we don't really know anything about how fast the storm moves or how Reinhard came to find out about it.

The results would be:
Radius = 504.545454545 km
Mass = 2,114,826,383,007,636
Speed = 100909.091 m/s
Energy = 1.07672628e25 Joule

The second one is the same way the current calc assumes, but using two days and six hours. Still doesn't fix these problems though imo.

We don't know how Reinhard became aware of it at all. Did the storm reach him? Someone contacted him through media? His intuition? He went somewhere else and saw it? Maybe the storm moves extremely slow and people actually had enough time to contact Reinhard before it even reached Astrea Mansion.

Radius: 4540.90909 km
Area: 64779186128510 m^2
Mass: 171,300,936,955,414,600 kg
Speed: 908181.818 m/s
Energy = 7.0644011e28 Joule

No it's okay, I decided this thread would also take it into account so I'll just say here.

Okay so reading the novel page for Reinhard's cloud split. His sword isn't just some strong slash sword, it's got tons of hax involved like law hax, spatial hax, cm2 hax, etc. Unless the anime is strict canon and we're ignoring what the sword's power is as stated in the novel it does way more, why are we treating his attack as if he's just pushing the clouds? He's deadass erasing it and the novel says as much.

But okay anime shows the clouds instead being moved omnidirectional. Phantom's calc accounts for two parts pushed away like the novel implies, but uses anime timeframe for the omnidirectional push. If the feat's still to be used with the anime's depiction, this should be accounted for.

How would we account this?

 

[Naito-desu]

I think Arkenis is suggesting that anime and novel feats should be calculated separately. This does kinda make sense if we're going to disregard that the novel has a ton of feats and powers that complicate the claim that the cloud is moved through pure kinetic energy. So if we were to recalculate this, use omnidirectional KE with the anime timeframe.

 

[Arkenis]

I think sword calc should just be discarded and scale off the cloud itself or whatever else it may scale to.

There's no sense in ignoring the sword's hax and argue around it about how this time, where Reinhard did use it's magic, he only shot a beam of heat and pushed it away. The the novel tells us how the "parted world was mended", and it describes the feat as bringing the world to an end but also its rebirth and how it simultaneously erased puck.

 

[MrTayman616]

I think sword calc should just be discarded and scale off the cloud itself or whatever else it may scale to.

If the novel shows it as destruction/erasure, this would be the route ig, just adding far higher along with it. (It would be more trouble some if he were to actually push them since this doesn't actually stop Puck's storm, no?)

We can use the anime version maybe, but it doesn't even show us that Reinhard himself actullay pushes the clouds in that scale, same for it's speed.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I think sword calc should just be discarded and scale off the cloud itself or whatever else it may scale to.

There's no sense in ignoring the sword's hax and argue around it about how this time, where Reinhard did use it's magic, he only shot a beam of heat and pushed it away. The the novel tells us how the "parted world was mended", and it describes the feat as bringing the world to an end but also its rebirth and how it simultaneously erased puck.

Reinhard cannot use magic

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Reinhard cannot use magic

Isn’t bro supposed the master of all traits

 

[MrTayman616]

Reinhard cannot use magic

He's talking about hax, not saying "magic" in terms of Re Zero's. Though just saying "hax" would be better to not confuse :d

Isn’t bro supposed the master of all traits

Except Magic.

 

[Arkenis]

Reinhard cannot use magic

where Reinhard did use it's magic

Limited Magic (The Dragon Sword Reid is an Enchanted Sword, and the most magical sword in the world)

 

[Naito-desu]

Just the fact that he can't use Magic traditionally doesn't mean his attacks can't have hax, especially if it comes from a magic sword

 

[PhantomØ4]

If hax is the issue I think calculating the kinetic energy of Reinhard splitting the planet and it sliding after he actually swings (using manga visuals) might be better at this point and usable. Whilst the act of it splitting can be from dura negating hax the force of the two pieces moving up and down wouldn’t be from any of Reinhard’s hax.

Wanted to confirm if anyone had any issue with that before doing it.