Re:Zero: Od abstraction

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Spoiler: Mind

Info:

• Subaru's consciousness is clouded by a weird feeling. The feeling is similar to the one he gets when Beatrice collects mana from him.
• Subaru is kind of aware the Earth Spider is a spirit, due to its heavy interference with his Od. The Earth Spider is trying to tell Subaru something, but he does not know what it is. –The Three Idiots Set Out! Earth Spider Episode, Summary

“Is this your first time borrowing her body?”

“No, this is the fourth time. But this is the first time there has been any issue going back. It’s never happened before, so I have no clue what the cause might be… I’ve stopped being able to extract myself from her body. As a result, Ana’s consciousness is sleeping in the depths of her Od.”

Eridna spoke as she touched her chest, as if the Od were inside her, and then she looked at the scarf lying limp on the roundtable. –Volume 20, Chapter 7

Abel: “As for your case, the issue is that you have lost your ability to comprehend and your creativity. The details of Olbart’s technique are unknown, but one theory would be that the body reflects the ups and downs of its own Od.”

Subaru: “T-the Od’s ups and downs…?”

Abel: “It means that there is a connection between the Od and the body, their growth and decay. So to speak, we can assume that Olbart has meddled with your… or rather, all of your Ods.”

Abel looked over at Subaru, Al, and Medium, whose bodies remained shrunk.

That explanation didn’t ring a bell to Subaru. As was the case with his broken Gate, which was used for magic, he had no real sense of the explanation about Mana and Od, whose existence he had originally been unaware of. –Volume 29, Chapter 4

and emotions

Through the art of flying dragon taming, Balleroy and Carillon were tied to each other’s existences through their souls―― through the merging of Od with Od. Subjugating the innately ferocious flying dragons through that process, was the secretive technique of flying dragon taming.

Given that relationship, any wavering in Balleroy’s thoughts and feelings was directly transmitted to Carillon. The inverse also held true, so Balleroy had also sensed Carillon’s thoughts. –Volume 37, Chapter 4

Spoiler: Fate and Info type 1

Julius: "The phenomenon itself is exceedingly simple. Everything comprising the caster's soul– their memories, experiences, and most likely, elemental character and destiny– are seared onto the soul of another person." –Volume 9, Chapter 1

Spoiler: Info type 2

Subaru: “To begin with, borrowing her body? What kind of situation is that?”

“Anastasia”: “To put it simply, I overwrite my existence in Ana’s Od, and I borrow her freely, that is the situation. In this state, I am able to control Ana’s body at will, I can also manipulate Ana’s Gate, which is defective from the start, and use magic.” –Volume 20, Chapter 7

They stated that changing the soul is like copy/paste a computer file. (Don't they live in a world of sword and magic ?)

Spoiler: Conceptual nature

Defined one's existence

The Memories eaten by Gluttony did not remain extant within the person concerned, the Names eaten by Gluttony did not remain extant within other people. That was because the Authority tore them off from the soul, which defined one’s existence in the world.

The proper cleansing of the soul by Od Lagna, which was practiced in the Hall of Memories―― acting as its agent of its own accord, the Authority of Gluttony would usurp it in stealth.

Therefore, the Memories and Names snavelled by Gluttony did not remain present within anyone.

Restrictively, though there had been ones who had only Memories or only Names stolen away, respective negative effects got applied.

If the Memories were stolen then said person, if the Name was stolen then other people, could no longer remember the person concerned. That could not be altered as long as the disposition of the soul remained within the protection of Od Lagna.

Yet, Natsuki Subaru did remember.

Did remember the ingredient, the soul which had been rendered naked, having Memories and Name both stolen. –Volume 25, Chapter 3

"Depth of a being"

――That what was termed as Synesthesia, operated via the Ods of two differing individuals being connected.

What was termed as the Od, was the source of power existing in the depths of a human being―― it could also be synonymous for the soul.

Though on instances it was also used in place of Mana as power for utilizing magic, originally, the Od was the pure property itself that made a human, human.

The consequence of having a domain that could not be trespassed by anyone, linking those born of the same womb mutually, perhaps resulted in Synesthesia, so propounded theory.

In the end, it came to be determined as folklore, and was not something that had been proven.

However, since it had been left in the Forbidden Library, it surely was not some phony spiel either. Above all else, Ram personally had taken a liking to that theory.

To have one’s own self and someone else be connected together by birth, was a lovely thing. –Volume 25, Chapter 7

"Root of self" and "essence"

Abel: “――As I stated. The Soul Marriage Technique involves ceding a portion of one’s soul to another. By soul, that would be the very root of one’s self, the Od.”

Al: “Ceding… Od.”

Ruminating on the words, Al’s voice trembled at the realization.

Od was, as Abel had stated, the root of one’s being―― the center of not only the body, but also the more spiritual part of the being, the origin of one’s Mana.

In this world, it was often treated as it was the same as the soul. So, perhaps the Soul Marriage Technique could also be called the Od Marriage Technique. Although Subaru wasn’t too sure of this.

Subaru: “But why do souls become stronger when they’re joined together?”

Abel: “A similar example would be the relationship between a Spiritual Arts User and a Spirit. By entering into a contractual relationship, User and Spirit connect to each other’s essence. Thus, those connected can be said to draw power from one another. Physical separation has nothing to do with it. This ought to ring a bell.” –Volume 29, Chapter 3

And whatever this is

Soul aflame, life fading to ash, his very destiny was on the cusp of its terminus.

All were engulfed in the blaze, and as Rowan’s self was blurring into the realm after death, he entered into a domain untread by living and undead both―― the interval between life and death, the point that ought to be called the beyond.

That was tantamount to uncovering the very nature, the true essence, of life and the soul.

A few more seconds, real as they might be, the final significance of Rowan Segmunt’s existence would overflow. –Arc 8, Chapter 64

Spoiler: Possible Nonexistent nature

Od came from nothingness

——An abominable technique left behind by the Vicious Old Man, Olbart Dunkelkenn.

By meddling with the Od of others, the Shinobi’s secret infantilization technique could remarkably reverse the growth of one’s body.

All living beings were naught more than containers for that which came into existence from nothingness, the Od. Depending on the shape of the Od, the size and form of the container would vary accordingly.

Therefore, all living creatures would don different appearances, and establish themselves as unique life forms.

If this theory was correct, that the body only served as a container for the Od, then by altering the shape of one’s Od, the form of its container could be altered freely.

By compressing one’s Od, then the body, serving as the container, could also be shrunk—— –Volume 31, Chapter 2

Life manipulation:

Beatrice: [It can’t be helped, so Betty will give an explanation, in fact. Od is the core of life….it’s a source of magical power that spirits, humans, witchbeasts, and any other type of life have within them, no doubt about it, I suppose. Od is like a type of vessel for magical power, so it’s also an organ that saves up the mana taken in from a Gate, in fact.]

Subaru: [Huh, huh, a vessel that stockpiles magic. Go ahead and continue.]

Beatrice: [The way you’re speaking is irritating, I suppose… Anyways, we’re dealing with a great amount of mana of outstanding Od, in fact. However, there’s a limit to any type of vessel’s capacity, I suppose. And the mana that overflows because of the Od meeting its limit… it’s necessary to disperse it before that happens, in fact.]

Subaru: [Bring it out before your stomach explodes inside, huh. ….So something like constipation?]

Beatrice: [Think about how you word it, I suppose!] –Tanpenshuu 2, Chapter 5Possi

Possible pocket reality manipulation? (Need more context)

“Anastasia”: “Having ceded the body over to me, and temporarily lying dormant in your Od, you are in a state wherein you will not receive any interference from the outside world―― Because the Od, is a world of a certain kind of peculiarity.”

And by her own volition, she had secluded herself away in that place.

The reason being obvious―― Should she come outside, she would incur the effects. The abhorrent Authority of the Sin Archbishop of Gluttony, she would incur its effects.

She would forget what she wished to never forget, relinquish what she wished to never relinquish.

Anastasia Hoshin would forget Julius Juukulius. –Volume 25, Chapter 6

Conclusuion:
Od is AE(Type 1; Consciousness, Emotion, Memory, Fate, Info1&2 and Concept) and interacting with the whole thing will qualify as manipulation of said aspects alongside life and pocket reality manipulation.

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Agree:

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[Zabazab]

Od (Soul) does not embody any abstraction to obtain immortality, ergo it's not Abstract Existence. It's just a soul, it also being the mind while containing emotions or memories or life energy doesn't grant such abilities for those with a soul. It'd be like giving everyone Soul Manip just for having a soul. And even someone manipulating the soul does not necessarily equate manipulating Memories (the sediment stuck to the soul's surface) or destiny (which is unknown in how Od Lagna enforces the laws of fate upon the souls in its disposition).

Basically your premise is faulty, you haven't actually explained how these quotes indicate the abilities you suggest, and we don't even have the full lore on souls as of Volume 43 since we're only about to start arc 10, meaning there's three more major arcs to come.

 

[Zabazab]

The Od is not a character. It's just a character's soul. The character does not exist purely as an abstraction or lack a physical form.

And just repeating your OP does not change my critique of your logic. If someone messes with memories they'll get memory manip, emotions then empathic manip, etc.

 

[Noobish2006]

can they resurect/regen from od tho?

 

[VortechsTG]

can they resurect/regen from od tho?

They can be resurrected but they can't on their own. They still need a body to inhabit. Spirits just need their Od to be in tact though.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

ig this would affect puck and the other spirits in that case?

it would also affect people like Reinhard, or soul manipulation users like Sirius

 

[PhantomØ4]

You lot need to stop taking words at face value for power-scaling terminology.

All living beings were naught more than containers for that which came into existence from nothingness, the Od. Depending on the shape of the Od, the size and form of the container would vary accordingly.

Od (soul) is immaterial, i.e nothingness when speaking about the material plane as the passage is given is describing the bodies of living beings.

Subaru: “To begin with, borrowing her body? What kind of situation is that?”

“Anastasia”: “To put it simply, I overwrite my existence in Ana’s Od, and I borrow her freely, that is the situation. In this state, I am able to control Ana’s body at will, I can also manipulate Ana’s Gate, which is defective from the start, and use magic.” –Volume 20, Chapter 7

This would be info manipulation for the given character... not the soul nor make the soul info manipulation type 2 in nature. Info manipulation type 2 by nature presumes it's a fundamental building block of reality and as such it's obvious that souls would have it as a building block. You are literally trying to scale souls to be equal to another abstraction via being affected by the alteration of it but that in no way means it IS that abstraction or you affect that abstraction by affecting it.

Julius: "The phenomenon itself is exceedingly simple. Everything comprising the caster's soul– their memories, experiences, and most likely, elemental character and destiny– are seared onto the soul of another person." –Volume 9, Chapter 1

The characters destiny (fate) is marked onto the Od of that character. Od is not manipulating fate in any way here, why would it be given fate manipulation? You could make a case for limited fate manipulation for the preforming this technique that would change it. Every character in fiction is assumed to have a destiny to begin with, if that is seared unto the soul it does not automatically make it cable of altering it not does it mean it's made up of fate as an abstraction as it just has it inscribed.

Defined one's existence

This whole section is the worst offender of taking words literally for power scaling. We know that the Od fully shapes the body, has the caster's memories, experiences, elemental character and destiny... so it's obviously defining who the characters are, you don't need to pull another abstraction to treat existence as a concept. If you can change the body, memories, personality, consciousness, and set destiny of someone, are they really themselves anymore?

Those two make complete sense knowing what is already known about the Od and would actually make no sense if they said the opposite despite all the other info.

The last excerpt is a nothing burger? I'm guessing you only put it there because it says "essence' lol.

Life manipulation:

This one genuinely confused me. Where is the life manipulation? All living beings having ods = life manipulation? ESL moment?

Possible pocket reality manipulation? (Need more context)

He consciousness is being stored within the Od? That's all. We know that's like a intrinsic feature of the od... it's not creating a separate enclosed space.

Conclusuion:
Od is AE(Type 1; Consciousness, Emotion, Memory, Fate, Info1&2 and Concept) and interacting with the whole thing will qualify as manipulation of said aspects alongside life and pocket reality manipulation.

I know you are doing this so it's harder to interact with the OD... so the distinction is extremely important.

Conclusion
Od houses but is not consciousness, emotions, memories, and the set fate of said characters and thus interacting with an abstraction of consciousness, emotion and memories should be akin to interacting with the soul to a limited degree, not backwards.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Zab and Phantom make a lot more sense here.

 

[Vietthai96]

I agree with the Zab and Phantom take

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

He consciousness is being stored within the Od? That's all. We know that's like a intrinsic feature of the od... it's not creating a separate enclosed space.

dont really care about the rest, but for more context. It was stated that Ana's Od was like an entire world of its own and she forced herself inside of it to escape from gluttony's affect which erased Julius from history. This implies that inside of her soul she was immune to the reality altering authority of gluttony

I personally DO think its a separate enclosed space since the only other time this happened was with Beatrice's library which existed in a different space entirely