Reality Equalization is a lie

[StrymULTRA]

Permission for this thread given to me by @Qawsedf234.

The problem​

Basically, this has been an issue that a lot of people have been noticing from a while, and this thread in particular made me realize that this wiki has been very inconsistent with how we treat the whole deal with Reality Equalization.

For those who want a TLDR, it is basically a rule that we have where we have to treat characters who are within fictional mediums (like videogames or dreams) in-universe as having regular statistics and not being slapped a 10-C/Tier 11 tier due to said fictional mediums being where the setting of the story is mainly focused on, thus being the "baseline reality" which is the equivalent of the "main universes" of other franchises in order to ensure a fair indexing.

However, while this idea seems to be fine on a surface level, it brings a lot of problems rooted in double standards, as this excuses some verses as having normal stats while others are instead with a 10-C/Tier 11 despite the surrounding context is completely the same. For the following list I won't really use scans (besides segments where I think a little clairification is needed), but will just show the overall context:

Examples of characters with "normal" stats:​

• Characters from OMORI: The beings within HEADSPACE are given Tier 8 to 2 stats despite being all part of Sunny's dream, who is a normal teenager in-universe. Sunny's world, FARAWAY TOWN, is fairly explored in the story too a decent amount of times alongside the dream world, and it's portrayed just like one would expect to show a normal town.
• Ralph: The entire point of the movie is exploring the world within arcade machines. Characters are consistently shown to be just physical, small data in-verse, as shown by them traveling inside electric cables multipletimes and this is shown also in the sequel.
• Characters from Sword Art Online: The stories are all based on Kirito and co. playing these VR games with a normal headset which used to be dangerous in the first arc of the story due to it literally locking the players in a state of constantly playing the game with no way out, and straight up killing also in real life whoever gets a game over by using electric shocks to the brain. Similarly to OMORI, the Real World is also displayed multiple times as a relevant location in the story that is also central in certain moments.
• Characters from The Amazing Digital Circus: Same as SAO, the entire premise of the show is that the characters are trapped through a VR headset in this virtual world. WoG also doesn't believe that Caine can defeat "normal" characters due to him being just a computer character.
• Monomi: Has normal stats despite the fact that the Neo World Program is also just a VR with game avatars which are supposed to reset one's consciousness.

Examples of characters with super low stats:​

• Daikoku Fuwa: 11-C from being just a dream in a normal human's mind.
• Senpai: He is 10-C due to him being just sentient data, and pretty much said stated and shown.
• Amanda: 10-C due to being just a tape in-universe within what's a regular world otherwise.
• Gene: 10-C for being data... because the trailer ALONE shows that the world in question is inside a normal phone.
• Buttercup: 10-C for being an AI program inside a computer

Some verses are genuinely weird because of this as well, given that Mita gets for some reason two keys, one for the "Real World" where she's just data, but another for the "Game World" where she has normal stats.

Now, let's get to the standards given from the RE page, and why they're inconsistent with how the wiki indexes characters:

Generally, Reality Equalization should only apply in cases of reality-fiction differences between two characters, as it gives a better approximation to real-world statistics than other types of layers of reality. These layers of reality also tend to be a lot more subjective in their powers rather than objective. Characters are only considered strong from a certain perspective.

However the R>F page mentions this:

• Reality Equalization as a concept equalizes the 'baseline reality' to be the reality that is most prominent within the story, being treated as a normal 3-D reality. For verses that mostly take place in an in-universe video game or story, this would logically allow the characters who exist beyond that world to be Tier 2 or above, even if they are mostly normal humans otherwise.
  However, this is not the case for every setting. In certain situations, we would not grant a R>F Transcendence to those who exist in the 'real world' compared to the game. Whether we do or not, it has to do with the perspective of the story. For the R>F transcendence to be indexed, the portrayal of the transcendence must be taken into account.
  If the transcendence is treated as sufficiently portrayed and is important to the story (i.e. being the literal author of the world with complete control over it), then it's valid. If it is not sufficiently portrayed as transcendence compared to the fictional world, then we would not index it as such and would simply tier it as if no R>F transcendence was involved.

But we technically SHOULD do this for characters like Ralph or Kirito, due to them being the "baseline realities", and yet being just small data to the "real world" characters, but we do not grant Tier 2 stats for these beings for simply not being videogame characters. BUT at the same time we do that to the Player from Imscared just because it sees the reality of the game as just bytes on a desktop.

The story should focus, in large part, on the virtual world in question. While it is not required for the entire verse to take place inside the virtual world, it should be major or recurrent enough to be considered too important to leave out entirely.

So do the characters from the Emoji Movie, and the entire thing takes place inside a normal phone in-universe.

The moments of the story focused on the virtual world should preferably be from the perspective of the virtual characters. This is due to the fact that Reality Equalization bases itself around the perspective of the character, as such, if this perspective isn't used in the original fiction, it has little to no point to be featured in the character's page. Those cases should simply be rated as Tier 11 if they fit the previous criteria.

As mentioned above, the entire plot point of these verses above are that they are data compared to the real world and that they would not make sense if they're just "it's a videogame only from the outside but not the inside", the story in itself features the digital nature of these things.

Unacceptable examples:

• .GIFfany and Rumble McSkirmish, while both being virtual characters, are portrayed as simple sentient programs and do not inhabit a full, fictional world. On top of this, little to none of the series they hail from takes place in their perspective.

Not only this is like, wrong, but inhabiting a data world did not stop Senpai and Gene from being 10-C.

So, for a TLDR, verses that should be 10-C for being fictional are arbitrairly treated as not being made of such for simply being "relevant" to the story due to most of the story being around them, even when a key element of said story is right around them being fictional to the real world, and (most) of characters who do not have the luxury of being story relevant instead are shown as completely fodder to these other fictional characters despite the context being literally the same.

In a fight between Ralph and Senpai, on this wiki the latter would be treated as literally atom-sized compared to the former despite the fact that both are virtual beings who live inside game consoles as electricity. It literally makes no sense and leads to insane conclusions given that a normal person who is not restricted to these insane wiki rules would normally think of these characters as comparable to each other due to them being virtual beings.

Suggestions?​

There I am indeed split. On one hand, one would want to index stuff fairly, as just slapping out a super low tier because of them being fictional is dumb.

Looking at SAO, for example, Kirito has 3 profiles per era, each with a ton of keys, so slapping a 10-C to all of his keys just because feels wrong, given he has feats, abilities and stuff and the story is obviously focused on that.

BUT at the same time it would also feel wrong to also apply uber literally a R>F gap to beings of the real world just because they're technically bigger than the fictional universe (still on SAO, saying that Kirito in the Real World is Low 2-C when he's shown as just a common human there is also kinda just wrong. I get the incredulity fallacy and all, but we have limits on that too, I hope).

Trying to make like Mita and making keys for the real and the digital world kinda sucks too given that we'd be forcing people to essentially say that a character is not small data only when it's convenient for cross-verse fights, other than it being just unfeasible for dudes like Kirito.

Because of this, I am kinda split here, and I'll let the staff to speak, but it's clear that we do have a double standard that has to be fixed.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm kind of feeling like case by case is the real way to go. As discussed on a previous thread, in the case of Wreck It Ralph, it does state being 9 feet tall and weighing 643 pounds is his size. So treating his universe as regular physics seems reasonable as well as scaling his surroundings. Unsure how it would effect Emoji movie. But we should perhaps do the opposite in making characters tiny if they are specifically stated to be "Micro" or "Nano" sized. But there are indeed plenty of examples that are difficult to pin point exact effects, though I can also think of cases where program or digital characters generally have caused massive amounts of effects to things in the real world.

 

[StrymULTRA]

As discussed on a previous thread, in the case of Wreck It Ralph, it does state being 9 feet tall and weighing 643 pounds is his size.

The issue is that visuals clearly contradict that unless electricity inside the cables and Wi-Fi signals is that big, making the normal humans in that verse Tier 2 or something.

I can also think of cases where program or digital characters generally have caused massive amounts of effects to things in the real world.

They mostly do that through indirect effects like with SAO, rather than the digital character literally popping out of the game to beat up the player, which then it'd make a Reality Equalization redundant.

following

Not to mini-mod but this is a staff thread lol.

 

[Arceus0x]

Permission granted by @Armorchompy to speak.

So, I think one could solve this by separating the tiers in the digital realm and in the physical with a mark of sorts.
An example is
Jax is 9-A* instead of just 9-A. "*" would signify that the tier is for the lower reality equivalent rather than that of reality itself.
This is just an example of a potential solution so we could do anything else like adding a note instead or an annotation of sorts.

 

[Armorchompy]

I think what above all we should focus on is actually representing the fiction of the setting. So I don't think it's automatically something to be fixed if some characters in similar contexts end up rated different. It'd be silly to rate Neo from the Matrix as 10-C when 95% of the movies' action scenes happen in the Matrix, but it's also understandable to rate a character that just sort of exists as a videogamey gag in an otherwise real setting as 10-C. I'm not opposed to some screws being tightened so that our standards are a little better, of course

 

[Tllmbrg]

Make everyone 10-C.

 

[Planck69]

Yeah, Armor said it best. We can technically slap 10-C/11-A on all of this and call it a day but I find that a very reductive way of looking at fiction. At most, I'd support putting tighter standards on it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@FinePoint the sole user listed here.

 

[FinePoint]

I think what most of the people using this concept on the wiki incorrectly are misunderstanding is that when we apply reality equalization we're not actually outright dismissing the notion that these characters, as data, are in a literal sense 10-C.

Consider this: if Wreck it Ralph were truly just data, only rendered on an arcade machine, then why are they portrayed as 3D characters moving in a full virtual world? Why are we not just seeing electrons moving around, or why is the entire setting not the screen of an arcade machine?

The answer is that we're actually dealing with two separate but connected stories here. Similar to the way that we don't dismiss a book's characters as 10-C for just being ink on paper, we don't dismiss a virtual character for just being data- even if in the text itself it was meta-textually established that the story is just a book.

That is to say, Wreck it Ralph tells two different fictional stories. One is a story about the characters represented in the arcade machines, and one is the story about the data/AI of these arcade machines acting out this story internally.

From the narrative logic of the story TOLD by the arcade machines, Ralph is 9-A, and a certain height in feet, and a certain weight in kilograms.
From the meta-textual narrative surrounding those arcade machines, he's just a 10-C program.

We can't fully separate them as properties, so instead we just list a rating for both stories. Something like: 10-C in the real world, 9-A in the virtual world.
For the sake of making a match, in a way you're actually picking between two different characters but from the same property.
Except, sometimes the real world rating is so utterly irrelevant from the property's perspective that we just cut it out entirely, and thus we are left with calling him 9-A.

The same is true for TADC. Yes, the story hammers home that their bodies aren't real, that this is a program on a computer- but in reality this virtual world doesn't actually exist as we see it in the computer, it would only be represented abstractly through code. Therefore, we once again have created two different stories and characters entirely.

Tl;dr: there's a big difference between "the code" and "the story told by the code", and when we do reality equalization we're simply adding a key for the latter.

Now, I do think this could be made clearer. The page itself could elaborate on how this would look on a profile, and we could certainly get more strict on actually requiring both keys to be listed in more cases.

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

I was given permission by FinePoint on their profile wall to make a post.

There is something relating to Reality Equalization with Virtual / Game Worlds that I have given some thought for some time, primarily in regards to how the standards also doesn't mention certain relationships unique to those settings, primarily that being how "Developers, Admins, Game-Masters, etc." are treated in the worlds.

Within the context of digital worlds there's a difference between seeing a virtual game world as fiction in a meta-narrative sense, and actually being able to affect that world at all tangibly from the "Real World", ex. the difference between being a player and being an admin, developer, etc.
The average player may see a virtual world as virtual, but they can't do anything meaningful to affect it in a way that would qualify for true R>F because the average player doesn't have permissions over the simulation or anything to actually effect it. I believe this would strip any possible R>F they could have as they simply interact with the world through avatars but don't have any true influence over it outside of that.

However, using Sword Art Online as an example, the various game worlds have real life characters, such as "Akihiko Kayaba" the developer of the game, who ultimately has full control on the world and it's functions, and in settings like "The Amazing Digital Circus" outside forces can affect the world via a command prompt or other means. This is a lot different than simply just "turning off a server" or "unplugging the video game" and by all means isn't really addressed on how to categorize this feat-wise, or statistic-wise.

I think Reality Equalization's current standards also misses the mark in terms of addressing this, as technically by all means if a developer has total control over a virtual world, would our current standards not allow that developer, in-game or not to simply be Tier 0?
I do think that if this thread goes down the path of revising or refining the current standards, this should be a concern.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Tl;dr: there's a big difference between "the code" and "the story told by the code", and when we do reality equalization we're simply adding a key for the latter.

Now, I do think this could be made clearer. The page itself could elaborate on how this would look on a profile, and we could certainly get more strict on actually requiring both keys to be listed in more cases.

I can largely get the sentiment behind it, but for some profiles doing this is kinda tricky.

For Kirito and Neo we do have a key for their Real Life version, but all the other keys are just treating it as if they're normal, non-digital characters despite being only a VR avatars in-verse, and having a whole other set of keys spamming 10-C just because "lol digital" kinda makes the profiles ugly.

Same with Junko for her 3rd Key, given that she has a whole set of powers she has only in the VR game due to being the admin there, but she cannot do that in the real world.

I think Reality Equalization's current standards also misses the mark in terms of addressing this, as technically by all means if a developer has total control over a virtual world, would our current standards not allow that developer, in-game or not to simply be Tier 0?

Tbf Tier 0 has much strictier shit than just having a complete control, but I can get the idea of having arbitrairly high stats.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I think tiering characters like Kirito and Neo as 10-B/10-A in the real world via being humans and 11-A/10-C in their avatar forms via being digital characters is basically the worst way to handle this issue. At that point they basically don't even warrant a profile, and the feats from their actual story are not even being indexed.

I have a thought though, if it's really an important issue, what about just having a note that clarifies that their avatars can't interact with the real world? It could be possibly noted as a weakness too.

 

[Antvasima]

I think tiering characters like Kirito and Neo as 10-B/10-A in the real world via being humans and 11-A/10-C in their avatar forms via being digital characters is basically the worst way to handle this issue. At that point they basically don't even warrant a profile, and the feats from their actual story are not even being indexed.

I have a thought though, if it's really an important issue, what about just having a note that clarifies that their avatars can't interact with the real world? It could be possibly noted as a weakness too.

I agree with this.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I have a thought though, if it's really an important issue, what about just having a note that clarifies that their avatars can't interact with the real world? It could be possibly noted as a weakness too.

Something like this was already addressed here, but I wouldn't mind remaking the note for Deltarune characters given that the context is almost the same as VR games needing virtual avatars (only that instead is in an illusory world given form from the lack of light in this case, but that's just semantics).

 

[FinePoint]

I think tiering characters like Kirito and Neo as 10-B/10-A in the real world via being humans and 11-A/10-C in their avatar forms via being digital characters is basically the worst way to handle this issue. At that point they basically don't even warrant a profile, and the feats from their actual story are not even being indexed.

I was mostly speaking on our current standards. I do agree that there should probably be a better way of handling it. I just wanted to dissuade the notion that it was either 'the main characters are 10-C' or 'the real life characters are Low 2-C'. It's possible by this standard that both keys are 10-B, for example.

Right now, as mentioned, many profiles exclude the real world key if it's not relevant, but they don't then make it clear we're doing that.

I think having a note on these kinds of profiles explaining that this is assuming their virtual reality is the baseline but we recognize they're 'not real' in the story itself would be a great idea.

Otherwise, if both versions ARE relevant, we should just have the two keys I think.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Otherwise, if both versions ARE relevant, we should just have the two keys I think.

I can largely get the sentiment behind it, but for some profiles doing this is kinda tricky.

For Kirito and Neo we do have a key for their Real Life version, but all the other keys are just treating it as if they're normal, non-digital characters despite being only a VR avatars in-verse, and having a whole other set of keys spamming 10-C just because "lol digital" kinda makes the profiles ugly.

Same with Junko for her 3rd Key, given that she has a whole set of powers she has only in the VR game due to being the admin there, but she cannot do that in the real world.

Again, how do we handle this if the digital versions have multiple keys?

 

[FinePoint]

Again, how do we handle this if the digital versions have multiple keys?

I suppose you could compound a qualifier, like: "9-A in Demon Form in the virtual world."

 

[StrymULTRA]

I suppose you could compound a qualifier, like: "9-A in Demon Form in the virtual world."

I don't think I got what you meant, could you elaborate a bit more?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I suppose you could compound a qualifier, like: "9-A in Demon Form in the virtual world."

I think what he meant is if there are things similar to Super forms (Examples being Super Saiyan forms from Dragon Ball, or Demon forms reminiscent of other Shounen verses) but those typical Shonen like forms are exclusively used in Digital/Virtual Worlds. But I suppose the approach to that is multiple tiers within the Digital World key or multiple Digital World keys.

 

[FinePoint]

But I suppose the approach to that is multiple tiers within the Digital World key or multiple Digital World keys.

Yeah, basically.

If we're worried about it looking bad just move the "in the real world" parts to the keys section instead of the tier section.

Or perhaps only specify for the real world key and have the rest then implied to be in the virtual one.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I agree with Armorchompy. A lot of this should really be a common-sense thing based on portrayal. We want to index characters the way people would think of them in a fight.

I will add that this not only includes possibly treating similar cases of different verses differently based on portrayal, but also to put limits on reality equalization in the same verse where it makes sense. Like, in SAO we would want to rank the virtual selves as not 10-C or less, but by their feats as if they were real However, I would find it silly to then extend that notion to the point that a regular human smashing the game server was Tier 1. Basically, I think one character in a fiction can have reality equalization applied to them and another can't, depending on whether they act more from a fiction or reality perspective.
Usually, if a character invoked reality equalization first, it in my eyes becomes very questionable to then give stats via R>F transcendence specifically.

In the end I'm not sure if there are good hard rules to have here or if we perhaps should just describe the spirit of the rules and leave it to case-by-case evaluation.

 

[Armorchompy]

I honestly do think there's some value to at least discussing Arceus' proposal. It might be too much work but I think it's an interesting idea, thoughts?

 

[SomebodyData]

I'm also in agreement with ArmorChompy and FinePoint here; case-by-case dependent on the context of the verse is the way to go but we should elaborate on the profiles what is virtual, what is real, and have a note when the real world part of the profile is not present.

That said,

Yeah, basically.

If we're worried about it looking bad just move the "in the real world" parts to the keys section instead of the tier section.

Or perhaps only specify for the real world key and have the rest then implied to be in the virtual one.

Yeah, given FinePoint's example above in the thread, thinking specifying only the real world key is better.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Or perhaps only specify for the real world key and have the rest then implied to be in the virtual one.

Yeah, so to get this correct:

• Kirito has 1 Real World Key and 6 Game World keys. In this case, we can make the keys like this:
  • 10-A [called "Real life (physical body)] | 10-C [called "Real life (game avatars)"], and then all the rest indexed the same as it is, with a Note somewhere saying that the 10-C is for how all of these Tier 8/7 keys would be viewed from the perspective of a human outside those games due to these being still technically just electronic data.
• Characters who are technically just imagination who also have multiple keys like Aubrey, similairly to Kirito get a 11-C key for how their world is viewed from outside of it.
• Senpai, Gene, Ralph and TADC characters all get "Real World | Game World" keys similairly to how Mita does rn. Daikoku also gets something similar given he's exclusively a dream character.

I honestly do think there's some value to at least discussing Arceus' proposal. It might be too much work but I think it's an interesting idea, thoughts?

Given that you know some of the verses I have mentioned here, any thoughts on this?

 

[Armorchompy]

I dunno about having 10-C keys for data stuff we also index as real, it feels like it's just bloating the profile with a whole key of fairly useless information. Some more minimalist way to get that information across would be preferable

 

[StrymULTRA]

I dunno about having 10-C keys for data stuff we also index as real, it feels like it's just bloating the profile with a whole key of fairly useless information. Some more minimalist way to get that information across would be preferable

I mean, that was @FinePoint's suggestion, and that'd be only a single key.

Plus it is something we already do technically.

 

[Planck69]

I dunno about having 10-C keys for data stuff we also index as real, it feels like it's just bloating the profile with a whole key of fairly useless information. Some more minimalist way to get that information across would be preferable

Maybe a note on the Reality Equalization page? Because it really is quite pointless information in terms of indexing the more I think on it.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I'm firmly of the opinion that the virtual characters are often what should be indexed, and that the fact it's a virtual entity can be covered in a note rather than needing its own key.

I'm also certain that almost anyone who checks Neo or Kirito's page wants to read about their VR self as if it were real, and see their feats from there indexed, not to read about how they're a normal human with an avatar that is lower dimensional via being data.

 

[Planck69]

Also, maybe an extra note on Reality-Fiction Transcendence? I do agree that there should be something to better clarify that us taking the lower world as a point of reference for feats does not mean that regular Kirito is 1-A or something.

 

[FinePoint]

I mean, that was @FinePoint's suggestion, and that'd be only a single key.

Provided it's relevant at all. Otherwise I think we could just leave a note on the page.

Also, maybe an extra note on Reality-Fiction Transcendence? I do agree that there should be something to better clarify that us taking the lower world as a point of reference for feats does not mean that regular Kirito is 1-A or something.

There is a note about it already.

While in theory, this would grant real-world beings Tier 2 or higher statistics, these beings should only be granted such statistics if they follow the criteria mentioned before. Thus, the real-world beings would need to have a direct influence on the virtual world and be relevant from the perspective of the virtual world in order to be allowed such statistics.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Provided it's relevant at all. Otherwise I think we could just leave a note on the page.

Define "relevant" here, because if it's something akin to "the real world exists but it's so little in the story it might as well not exist", we do not give 10-C keys to stuff like Undertale, EarthBound or OFF just because they all happen to be canonically videogames with a Player residing in a real world.

The things I have mentioned here however do that.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Regarding Reality-Fiction Transcendence page, it's actually quite specific on what qualifies for transcendence to reach 1-A. It's outright stated that merely perceiving a Macrocosm as fiction in itself isn't evidence of R>F transcendence that qualify as 1-A as opposed to perceiving a Macrocosm as contained within a small medium; such as being contained in a book, a CD, or a Game Cartridge. In the case of Sword Art Online, the virtual world is physically located all over the internet, and is genuinely much larger than physical world residents realize. It's not like destroying a single CD, a single computer, or nearly every computer, smart phone, tablet on the planet will simply get rid of the Macrocosm. Hence why real world residents aren't 1-A there. It's a different story for characters who perceive entire Low 2-C or above Macrocosms are perceived as being physically located as just one of multiple safe files on a 3DS game cartridge, and a verse legit treats deleting the save file as a Tier 2 or above destruction feat in lore. Like what this guy does.

But I noticed the page is unfinished, there is a list of unacceptable examples, but acceptable examples are blank.

 

[StrymULTRA]

In the case of Sword Art Online, the virtual world is physically located all over the internet, and is genuinely much larger than physical world residents realize. It's not like destroying a single CD, a single computer, or nearly every computer, smart phone, tablet on the planet will simply get rid of the Macrocosm. Hence why real world residents aren't 1-A there. It's a different story for characters who perceive entire Low 2-C or above Macrocosms are perceived as being physically located as just one of multiple safe viles on a 3DS game cartridge, and a verse legit treats deleting the save file as a Tier 2 or above destruction feat in lore.

I do not think this is the reason why SAO people are not 1-A. It's more due to them being portrayed as just normal humans within a realistic world and not some space-time transcendent gods who are beyond any amount of physical dimensions, otherwise Basil of the Real World would be 1-A due to him being more real than the 2-C Headspace which is basically just a dream.

Like what this guy does.

I do not see any kind of R>F here ngl. The Player of Imscared could have been a better example, but the underlying issue is that is not enough. We all know that the Undertale and Deltarune worlds are canonically videogames that are downloaded from the internet on your desktop in-universe, but that is not granting to the UTDR Player any real R>F, as the evidence simply being insufficient to grant a 1-A rating, we have even downgraded the OFF Player from Tier 1 for the same reason.

But I noticed the page is unfinished, there is a list of unnacceptable examples, but acceptable examples are blank.

That deserves its own thread, but I'll just say that the DDLC thing should be removed given that none here or off-site has really argued that the DDLC Player should be Tier 1, but that Monika should be 11-C instead, when that is just not true given that both the game and real world have explicit evidence of being the same in existence, making DDLC more fitting as an example for the Reality Equalization page (especially given that the Gravity Falls example there is wrong given that dimensionality doesn't really impact the stats, 2D beings were about to kill the 9-A Stanford after that his head intersected in their 2D plane for example).

 

[Vesxpura]

Permission given by Plank

I believe that all of the problems mentioned here can be addressed by simply changing the the RE page's standards. Here is what i suggest:

Since the OPs problem arises from the RE page itself and the consistency of the imposed rules, as explicitly stated by him and given what the staff like DarkDragonMedeus have said about them treating these scenarios case by case. i propose we revamp the rules of RE with how staff currently index them, this can be done through these 3 things.

1. It is explicitly stated that each use of reality equalization will be dependent on the individual series and its context(Case by Case). This addresses the disparity between the character stats the OP mentioned.

2. It is looked at through different priorities, with the first priority being explicit cosmological statements. As with the current standards, a full fictive space‑time(that is, its explicitly stated to be a conventional 4 dimensional space-time contiuum) can be treated as Tier 11 when it is not prominent (although this shouldnt qualify to be equalized in the first place, this has been brought up by SOME relevant people in threads before). Therefore it shouldnt apply to already established space-times being treated as fictional and therefore "needing" equalization.

which doesnt make any sense given what DT said about it being indexed through the context of a fight(which itself is somewhat based on the narrative aswell) which should be the second priority or it could just go hand in hand with the first one. The third priority should then be narrative and perspective, as per the original rules. This tighter standard should allow for consistency for the profiles.

Given this i am also proposing that the idea that reality equalization applies to higher planes of existence be removed completely as i cannot think of any situation where one would intend to equalize a higher reality being outside of very specific presuppositions and SBA, not to mention as far as i know(i could be wrong) there isnt a single profile that does infact follow this.

3. This is up for discussion, but as of now, some profiles are assumed to have their reality equalized while others dont, this can be addressed by number 1. but for the profiles that do have their reality equalized, i dont think its necessary to reference what its stats would be if it werent proposed since frankly, the profiles whole purpose was to be that way(the way people want to use it in a fight).

And as for the non equalized profiles, they simply didnt qualify for one reason or the other, this can be up for discussion depending on what is agreed upon. This resolves the problem of having extra keys. So to put it simply, RE should be treated as a kind of qualification for characters who meet the criteria to be allowed to fight in regular standards. Although it wouldnt hurt to put a note saying that the stats are already equalized.

In addition to this, for characters beyond such virtual worlds, while yes it should be decided what tier they are on a case by case basis, but on a foundational level, this should apply

It should be noted that this is not to be applied to all characters in verses involving virtual characters or planes of reality

That is, if only the specific character is equalized, then to characters beyond them and the virtual world, the specific character would be no different to how they would be treated as unequalized. for example, since we have kirito as an accepted profile which has its reality equalized, this should not suggest anything about the humans outside of the virtual world as their profiles would not assume the same equalized reality as kiritos profile unless it is also proposed that the humans have equalized profiles.

This should address the problems of the OP with the consistency between the profiles, and account for the resolutions proposed by the staff

 

[StrymULTRA]

bump?

 

[KLOL506]

Me personally, I am not in favor of discarding feats just because they happened in a digital plane.

On the other hand, if their real life counterpart has no feats to talk of then there is no point in giving it a key to begin with. Just stick with the data world feats.

 

[Vietthai96]

Nah, this is just based on what the base reality is. In SAO, the real world and the virtual world are both equally base reality. Stuff happens mostly in the game world, but they are the acknowledgment of the real world, and stuff does happen in it, and the game world is just a game world. There is also a verse I'm currently playing called Aether Gazer, in which, while there was a (destroyed) real world in the lore, all stuff happens in the simulation world, so if I'm going to powerscaling this verse, I definitely can't just scale them at 2D level cause they are in a simulated world. So either we have two separate keys for real world and virtual world, in the case of SAO, or we just scaling them normally and write a note that explain their existences are virtual but for the sake of indexing and scaling we treat the virtual world as base reality, equal to normal real world

 

[FinePoint]

Nah, this is just based on what is the base reality, in SAO, real world and virtual world are both equally base reality, stuff happens mostly in game world, but they are the acknowledge of the real world and stuff do happen in it and game world is just a game world. There are also verse i'm currently playing called Aether Gazer which while there was a (destroyed) real world in lore, all stuff happens in the simulation world, so if i'm going to powerscaling this verse, definitely i can't just scaling them at 2D level cause they are in a simulated world. So either we have teo separate keys for real world and virtual world in the case of SAO, or we just scaling them normally and write a note that explain their existences are virtual but for the sake of indexing and scaling we treat the virtual world as base reality, equal to normal real world

You seem to have a solid understanding of the standard, and this is a pretty good summary.

It's less that we're picking a single reality to be the baseline no matter what, and more that we're saying the story of the virtual world is significant enough to be considered its own baseline too. The page specifically mentions it being added as a key.

Speaking of, I am currently the only knowledgeable member listed, so if anybody else feels they have a solid understanding it would be great if they added themselves to the list.

 

[Planck69]

You seem to have a solid understanding of the standard, and this is a pretty good summary.

It's less that we're picking a single reality to be the baseline no matter what, and more that we're saying the story of the virtual world is significant enough to be considered its own baseline too. The page specifically mentions it being added as a key.

Speaking of, I am currently the only knowledgeable member listed, so if anybody else feels they have a solid understanding it would be great if they added themselves to the list.

Maybe for relevant profiles we can have a note at the bottom explaining why we index them as such, and link it to our Reality Equalization page.

"For information on why we index this character's statistics this way, see here."

 

[KLOL506]

Nah, this is just based on what is the base reality, in SAO, real world and virtual world are both equally base reality, stuff happens mostly in game world, but they are the acknowledge of the real world and stuff do happen in it and game world is just a game world. There are also verse i'm currently playing called Aether Gazer which while there was a (destroyed) real world in lore, all stuff happens in the simulation world, so if i'm going to powerscaling this verse, definitely i can't just scaling them at 2D level cause they are in a simulated world. So either we have teo separate keys for real world and virtual world in the case of SAO, or we just scaling them normally and write a note that explain their existences are virtual but for the sake of indexing and scaling we treat the virtual world as base reality, equal to normal real world

In which case, give keys to both the Real World side and SAO world side, assuming the IRL feats are significant enough. I am not a fan of treating the "other world" side feats as any less valid than if they were to be performed IRL.