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Record of Ragnarok Revision Round 2

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Maybe I'll hold out on the profiles as the new Lu Bu side manga chapter is out tomorrow. Considering he is going up against 100 000 men, surely something interesting would happen.
 
PowerToScale said:
Maybe I'll hold out on the profiles as the new Lu Bu side manga chapter is out tomorrow. Considering he is going up against 100 000 men, surely something interesting would happen.
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Where do you find the Lu Bu manga chapters to read?
 
Hercules said that human weapons are not capable of scratching God. I think you need to put the Gods durability City + (and Volund too) (And so Poseidon and Sasaki will have a level above "wall")
 
Yeah, low ball Herc, Jack (Vokund), Poseidon and Kojiro (Volund) would be "At least City+" as gods in general are above humans, which would include no volund Lu Bu.
 
HajimexYue forever said:
By the way I heard everyone is moving to another forum is there a way for me to transfer over to that one can you post a link?
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You're gonna have to ask Antvasima about that
 
I mean, his brother did gather people to fight him if I remember. Also I was thinking of scaling Zeus last to compare with the rest of the warriors.

After @HajimexYue forever mentioned it, I looked back at chapter 3 and it makes it just sound that divine weapons are just stronger than normal weapons. So maybe we remove the Invulnerability from the gods?
 
Their abilities are weird but invulnerability is probably the best way to describe it. Like, even when Lu Bu and Thor were more or less comparable in strength, Lu Bu wouldn't have been able to kill or damage him without a divine weapon, so there is something going on here
 
Woland gives high strength, not ignoring the durability of the Gods, because Jack can break the wall with a small stone with a slight movement, although Jack is physically at 9-C level
 
Rather than invulnerability I think it's closer to the modern weapons immunity that the fate/servants have. If they were invulnerable I don't think Adam would have been able to slice that snake god with his bare hands so easily even by copying his technique. It could just by that you need a certain amount of physical power to injure the gods I'm not sure if any of you have watched anime like Arifureta or Danmachi but monsters in those series possess tough skin that normal weapons couldn't hope to scratch which may be what's going on here I could be wrong though that's just a theory of mine.
 
It could be the opposite as well, since Jack was able to harm herc with basically just turning his blood into a divine weapon, so they do also seem to have a durability negation aspect. Maybe it's both invulnerability and durability negation
 
Also, if Gods are able to kill other Gods without divine weapons, then Adam replicating their own techniques could be able to bypass their potential invulnerability
 
I wouldn't say that volume have durability negation. Jack's blood was became stronger to the point of harming Herc.
 
Like, in what way did it get "stronger" tho? It didn't get sharper, it didn't have more force behind it, there wasn't more energy to it, it didn't become harder, etc.

He just coated his hands in a liquid, made a liquid a "divine weapon," and then suddenly the hand which wasn't able to harm Herc up to that point was suddenly able to harm him via using that liquid as a medium.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Like, in what way did it get "stronger" tho? It didn't get sharper, it didn't have more force behind it, there wasn't more energy to it, it didn't become harder, etc.
He just coated his hands in a liquid, made a liquid a "divine weapon," and then suddenly the hand which wasn't able to harm Herc up to that point was suddenly able to harm him via using that liquid as a medium.
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In the same way that he made the pebble stronger. Like when he turned to pebble into a divine weapon and flung it, causing it to create a crater on the side of big ben. he turned a below average level weapon into a wall to small building level weapon (Whatever results i would yield)
 
I think we should not add invulnerability to the gods profiles until we understand more about the gods and divine weapons. I think Jack's volund may work as a enchant of some sort for example Jack threw a pebble and it put a big dent in a fallen tower despite him only being nowhere near that strong physically. Until we understand more about the divinity in shuukatsu no Valkyrie we should put off adding invulnerability to their profiles.
 
I feel like Herc and Adam's is about tie in the "Impact" really.

I think it's a strong likelihood that this is similar to Jojo stands of being immune though. For the invul part. Can't explain it well rn
 
HajimexYue forever said:
I think we should not add invulnerability to the gods profiles until we understand more about the gods and divine weapons. I think Jack's volund may work as a enchant of some sort for example Jack threw a pebble and it put a big dent in a fallen tower despite him only being nowhere near that strong physically. Until we understand more about the divinity in shuukatsu no Valkyrie we should put off adding invulnerability to their profiles.
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Jack's Volund is making things into Volunds, which I think would come under empowerment

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Empowerment
 
Jack isn't strengthening himself with Volond he's granting inanimate objects divinity which allows those objects to harm the gods in this series. He might be able to make his body into a Volond with the gloves though. Is there a ability on this site that's used to describe powers that grant objects powers?
 
PowerToScale said:
In the same way that he made the pebble stronger. Like when he turned to pebble into a divine weapon and flung it, causing it to create a crater on the side of big ben. he turned a below average level weapon into a wall to small building level weapon (Whatever results i would yield)
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Pebbles can be made harder, liquid cannot be. Blood has no structure at all, and it isn't like he granted it anyway either
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Pebbles can be made harder, liquid cannot be. Blood has no structure at all, and it isn't like he granted it anyway either
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I didn't say it made it harder or solidified the blood, but stronger. He made stronger that it can destroy a wall. Lets say Herc is Island level for this example. By turning his blood into a volund he is able to hurt him, meaning getting hit by his blood is the same as getting hit by a Island level weapon or attack.
 
Blood has no "strength" in the sense that you mean it then, nor can it be granted "strength." "Strength" isn't anything on its own, and what you describe isn't possible without durability negation, since dealing "fixed" damage would be, in and of itself, durability negation. For something to deal damage, or have "strength," would require a means to transmit energy, sustain/project damage, or something like that. Blood, and Liquid in general, has no means to do this unless it is something like Kiyomasa's Blood (granted structure and speed), Wilhelm's Blood Spikes (solidifies it into spikes, or hards it into crystalize), Blastoise's water cannons (Fires water with concussive force), Kuriyama's Blood sword (forms it into swords and shields), etc.

Luffy coating his fists in Blood to be able to hit Crocodile is the closest thing I can think of to the situation at hand, but even then, that was about him coating his hands to be able to hit him, all the "strength" came from the force projected through the blood by Luffy's fist.

So tell me, if I have misunderstood you, what do you mean by "strength"? By what means was the blood granted "strength" beyond just making it a divine weapon? Otherwise, the only alternative is that divine weapons in and of themselves negate durability in some way, and/or negate the invulnerability of the gods, but even then it cannot just be the latter, as Jack has no "strength" to hurt Herc.
 
Blood, and liquids, do have strength. A droplet of water has strength, but it isn't very strong. Droplets of water can't hurt us but that doesn't mean they don't have strength. Jack just increases the strength of the blood, making cause more damage. Blood and liquids have structure. Bloods and liquids don't have to be shaped or formed into objects or weapons to have structure.

The Luffy situations you described is basically what Jack did... I think. I don't know the full context behind it, except he hit Herc with blood that is stronger than normal blood. Jack of courses needs to put some force behind the blood, its not like Herc just touching it will hurt him. Let's try this example.

"You have a sword with a strength level of 10 and there is a huge rock with a strenght level of 100. You swing at the rock but it does nothing to it, no damage. The next day you come back to the rock. However, this time you have a different sword with a strength level of 110. Between the previous day and this moment nothing has changed, all your stats are the same, just the new swords strength is 110, compared to yesterdays 10. You face the rock again and attack, with the same speed and the same force behind yesterdays swing, the same everything. This time the results are different, yopu completely slice through the rock. The new sword didn't negate the rocks durabilty, it just cut through it."

The is the same with Jack using his blood, normal blood would be the strenght level 10 sword and Herc would be the level 100 rock. However, when turned into a volund it became 110 (the new sword) and hurt Herc, not becuase it negated his durabilty, because it became stronger.

TL;DR: Jacks volund blood is same as using a weapon with a stronger strength level that the one you have so you can do more damage, not negating his durablity.
 
" Blood, and liquids, do have strength. A droplet of water has strength, but it isn't very strong. Droplets of water can't hurt us but that doesn't mean they don't have strength. Jack just increases the strength of the blood, making cause more damage. Blood and liquids have structure. Bloods and liquids don't have to be shaped or formed into objects or weapons to have structure. "

You saying that doesn't make it true, especially given how you define "strength" below. Strength isn't some factor in and of itself, its a composite of multiple different factors. How does blood have structure on any significant scale exactly? Blood and liquids flow for the exact reason that they have no structure, and the blood on jacks hands still dripped, which proves it lacks any kind fo structure

" The Luffy situations you described is basically what Jack did... I think. I don't know the full context behind it, except he hit Herc with blood that is stronger than normal blood. Jack of courses needs to put some force behind the blood, its not like Herc just touching it will hurt him. Let's try this example. "

For the context of the Luffy vs Crocodile fight, Luffy coated his fists in blood because Croc can turn into sand, but can't become intangible if he is in contact with a liquid. Croc had already absorded all the water luffy had with him, so Luffy took the blood from his injuries to bypass his intangibility. the difference between this situation and the jack situation is that Blood is just the medium for the force that Luffy himself was using to attack; Jack doesn't have the strength to put into the blood to begin with, and he isn't modifying the physical properties of blood in any meaningful way.

The example you just gave is completely different from blood. A sword can have "strength" that comes from its sharpness, but blood has no such factor to be amplified without giving it some kind of structure or greater force behind it. That's my point, where does the "strength" of the blood come from exactly? I now understand for sure what you mean by strength, but this confirms to me that you have misunderstood that "strength" cannot exist in a vacuum
 
Liquids have structure. The structure of a liquid intermediate to that of a solid and a gas, which allows the molucules to move around more. Despite it being different, it still has structure and isn't strutureless. [1]. Therefore blood would have structure as well. Even comparing blood to a liquid is wrong as blood in itself is not 100% a liquid and contains a solids. [2] [3]. Red blood cells themselve also have their own structure [4]. To say that either liquids or blood do not have structure is wrong.

Blood and liquids would naturaly have strength as all physical things do. Without it they wouldn't be able to function, or even exist. It liquids and bloods they would be ableto exists due to forces like gravity. Blood and blood cells have to travel through the body, meaning they would need to with stand the the force of travelling throughtout the body, without strength they wouldn't be able to. Doing the math a single blood cell weights 2.7e-14 kg (27 picograms) [5] and blood travels on an average of 1.34112 m/s (3 mph)[6]. 0.5x2.7e-14x1.34112^2= 2.4281139e-14 J. Low levels, but still needs strength to withstand the force.

Okay, so the Luffy example isn't really the same. Yes, Luffy is hitting with his own force, where as Jack hit with the force of Volund Blood.

I showed above how bood has strength and sword's strength doesn't only come from it's sharpness. Blood has physical form, mass and structure, so it does have factors.
 
You completely missed my point. I don't mean structure as in molecular shape or physical form, I mean it in the sense of a geometric, for lack of a better word, structure. Also, let me take a double take, are you claiming that blood isn't actually a liquid?

What you are talking about then is durability, not strength, from that description. Besides, what you describe is only durability for the smaller components of the blood, not the mass as a whole.

It's the closest thing to it, but you still haven't shown me where the AP of the blood supposedly comes from.

You showed that the individual components of blood have durability, but that's it. Let me remind you that Jack's blood Volund was still weak enough to drip, so even something like basic gravity violated its grand scale geometric structure.
 
I don't think I completely understand what you are saying, correct me if I am wrong with what I am assuming. Are you saying that blood lacks shape? Blood does shape, or are you referring to it not having structure due to not being made into a weapon? The blood does not need to be shaped or formed into another structure to cause harm.

No, I claiming that blood isn't 100% a liquid. Not that none of it isn't.

The durabilty would also be it's strength as that is the the force you're hit with blood traveling those speeds. Unlike Jack's Volund blood which just naturally does more damage regardless of it's speed and mass. Like the example before.

"Two swords. Made the same way, same material, same mass, exact same everything. When the two swords are used they are used the exact same way, same speed, same technique, same air resistence, on the same object. However one doesn't cut through the object, whereas one does. Thats just because that one sword's strength, it's power, is just higher than the others, regardless of them being identical in terms or mass and proportions and being identically used the same way."

I could try calculate every component of blood, although it doesn't really matter. It dripping because of gravity doesn't really mean anything or matter. I guess Mjlonir is pretty weak for falling due to gravity.
 
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