Regarding Beyond-Dimensional Existence current standards

[Jozaysmith?]

Hey everyone hmm firstly idk what to say for real and giving this is mostly a question it can be moved later if there's no point in answering it or clearing the air about things regarding BDE

Regarding Ultima BDE revision​

@Ultima lately revised the idea of beyond dimensional existence type 2 being the case of R>F here and removed BDE2 from some of the characters not meant to have it, but here's something that doesn't feel right, many of the profiles with BDE2 in the past don't happen to have qualitative superiority over spatial-temporal dimensions but they actually have a significant relevance towards surpasing all kinds of spatial-temporal aspect of existence, rather than seeing it as a dream, or in a book or some sort they of course naturally exist outside time and space and is superior to it in nature like being gods who play with the timelines and so on.

Beyond dimensional existence type 1 just doesn't sit right​

Now on to BDE1 explanation it said

Type 1: Characters whose nature is defined by lacking spatiotemporal features without necessarily being superior to any of them. As a result they aren't limited to existing within spatiotemporal realms and are often unaffected by Spatial Manipulation and Time Manipulation or can at least defend against it by leaving spacetime at will. They are usually Acausal (Type 1) as a result of being outside of regular time.

Here is the problem, like i said before some don't have the R>F quality but do exist naturally outside time and is superior to it in nature like some kind of God, the way type 1 is necessary described and the current standards of type 2 both don't fall with some characters like FF, slime, probably puella magical and some others who by nature exist outside time, superior to time and so the more qualifications but doesn't dream it or say its part of a book or have other R>F redemption
So it's like some kind of middle liner
To make it quite clear Ultima also mentioned this in this thread

Good examples of 1-As are SMT characters, I'd say. Seeing the world as an illusion to which you are "reality" is a staple of a lot of things in that tier. Aslan is a good example of a 1-A, too.

Which by all definition is BDE2
I find it hard why existing naturally above or beyond time and space= exist within but just immune and can leave out will

Is there anything you'll like to propose then jozay?​

Yeah, i have 2 suggestions

The first suggestion​

We simply re adjust the qualifications of BDE1 and those who have it via the previous qualifications can just get immunity or unconventional resistance to Space and time manip, with ig acca1, although this is a rather unqualified way of going about things because re adjusting the acausality type 1 justifications naturally also affect the proposal i thought of
The very introduction of BDE clearly explains my point anyways

Beyond-Dimensional Existence on this wiki refers to the state of being of characters who exist outside, and are independent of, space and its dimensions.

The type 1 justification and type 2 doesn't fit this bill

My second suggestion​

Let's create a separate type of BDE, the R>F kind becomes type 3, the other becomes Type 2 then the immunity becomes type 1, although i prefer the first option in rearragnging the qualifications

Someone with a third suggestion i guess????​

Yeah, someone might be like "yeah, nah, this isn't it, you're not HIM, do something else with yourself"- don't misunderstand, what am trying to say is after all this it could be a misunderstanding on my part however it doesnt look like so.

Do you have a TL;DR jozay​

Yes BDE itself as an ability page needs revision, cleanup, better wordings and so the more.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Here is the problem, like i said before some don't have the R>F quality but do exist naturally outside time and is superior to it in nature like some kind of God, the way type 1 is necessary described and the current standards of type 2 both don't fall with some characters like FF, slime, probably puella magical and some others who by nature exist outside time, superior to time and so the more qualifications but doesn't dream it or say its part of a book or have other R>F redemption

"I see spacetime as a dream/illusion/book" isn't really the only qualifier for 1-A, as of the revisions. The tier is primarily focused around transcending physical composition (With "physical" here not being restricted to like, atoms and particles and whatnot, mind you) and getting to the point where your superiority over things is based on ontology, and not "size" in the same way lower tiers have. If your "I am beyond space and time" statement has indications of such a thing, then, cool, it is indeed 1-A.

So, "not having a qualitative superiority over spacetime" just means you aren't actually 1-A to begin with. Superiority over spacetime under the parameters described above is qualitative.

Overall, though, I doubt many "Beyond spacetime" things actually fit the bill for that kind of stuff, so I don't know that the examples you give actually mean much. On the whole, the BDE page does need repairs, but these will come after the revisions are finished, not now.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

"I see spacetime as a dream/illusion/book" isn't really the only qualifier for 1-A, as of the revisions. The tier is primarily focused around transcending physical composition (With "physical" here not being restricted to like, atoms and particles and whatnot, mind you) and getting to the point where your superiority over things is based on ontology, and not "size" in the same way lower tiers have. If your "I am beyond space and time" statement has indications of such a thing, then, cool, it is indeed 1-A.

So, "not having a qualitative superiority over spacetime" just means you don't actually have BDE to begin with. Superiority over spacetime under the parameters described above is qualitative.

Overall, though, I doubt many "Beyond spacetime" things actually fit the bill for that kind of stuff, so I don't know that the examples you give actually mean much. On the whole, the BDE page does need repairs, but these will come after the revisions are finished, not now.

Okay so this is the suggestion 3 part where i just made a thread of me tweaking ig that makes sense, but isn't the whole revision of 1-A to tier 0 already Been confirmed and revised to the fullest?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Okay so this is the suggestion 3 part where i just made a thread of me tweaking ig that makes sense, but isn't the whole revision of 1-A to tier 0 already Been confirmed and revised to the fullest?

There's still a few things to settle, so, no.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

In any case, closing this now.