Regarding Chara and Flowey

[MarvelFanatic119]

I was on a thread made by Crazystarf about Chara's Tier . And while everyone was arguing about the tier, myself included, I had to wonder, why IS God Flowey stronger than Chara?

I mean in his profile it says:

"Flowey also performed Chara's game destroying feat, and was directly stated to be more powerful than the child"

Where does this statement come from? Toby Fox? A developer of the game?

 

[Lina_Shields]

Here in this wiki feats > word of god usually. Unless this rule changes after universal, there is enough evidence Chara did much more damage without the human souls compared Flowey with six souls.

If you believe that you gave away your own soul to make Chara omnipresent, Chara would probably rank even higher. I know you made a comparison with Marvel characters breaking the 4th wall, but this was the only moment of significance where Chara actually appears, thus it needed to be addressed.

Edit: I think the best comparison for this is that Chara is Devil Homura while the characters in that game are regular people.

 

[Talonmask]

I believe it's the adding up of Flowey stating that that his plan would make him more powerful than Chara, and the fact that God Flowey is the combination of his own determination and six human souls, whereas Chara is technically a single, powerful one.

Chara can only seem to feed off of souls that are similar to theirs, seeing as you get booted off the Genocide route after you spare an enemy.

By the game's logic, Chara can't grow more powerful after they've reached their maximum, since humans cannot absorb other human souls whereas monsters can, dependent on the monster.

 

[Lina_Shields]

By the game's logic, Chara can't grow more powerful after they've reached their maximum, since humans cannot absorb other human souls whereas monsters can, dependent on the monster.

Chara broke the game logic completely when he crashed your game and installed a file in your system. This actually means that Chara went out of the game's programming to actually interact outside the game. By the game logic, this is absolutely not allowed.

Anyways, Asriel and Flowey had threatened to do it, but the fact that Chara actually broke the game logic itself means Chara > Asriel. And feats should be taken preference over words in this case (as with all other cases).

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

>Implying the file is canon

Stop, it's not. It's just a way for the game to track Genocide. Unlike any other 4th wall breaking in the game there is nothing hinting at it being canon.

Also Flowey ALSO crashed the game, so I don't see what Chara did more than Flowey there.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

>Implying the file is canon
Stop, it's not. It's just a way for the game to track Genocide. Unlike any other 4th wall breaking in the game there is nothing hinting at it being canon.

Also Flowey ALSO crashed the game, so I don't see what Chara did more than Flowey there.

As i was debating with Azathoth in the other thread. The only reason why Photoshop Flowey is considered stronger than Chara is because Flowey himself states, at the beggining of the route. That his plan (steal the six souls) would make him stronger than Chara's plan. But, as i was saying there. Flowey's statement doesn't disregard any possibility of Chara being stronger than he thought. Also, Photoshop Flowey only crashes the game, while Chara herself states that she erased the world. Which Photoshop Flowey never do and is never stated that he did it. The only two people who destroyed the world (And with world we refer to the total existence) were Chara and Asriel. So, yeah, it is stated in screen that Chara DID more than Flowey.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It wasn't stated that Flowey DIDN'T destroy the world either tho. In fact, considering that the whole battle is in a void like Chara's and Asriel's, it is likely that he did it.

And other than that, the only power hint is Flowey stating to be stronger than Chara.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

It wasn't stated that Flowey DIDN'T destroy the world either tho

That's not how arguments works. If Flowey destroyed the world we need something that proves it. Not the other way around. Also, again, it was never stated that the void where they fight is the same void that we see at the end of geno run. Since, well, while we are there we can see Flowey destroy a SAVE (meaning that at least something exist) and after the fight, the world seems at least partially intact.

And as i say before. Flowey's statement is highly debatable. We shouldn' take it as an absolute proof that he is stronger than Chara. Specially when Chara's feats are better.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well the world wouldn't be intact at all if he destroted even one timeline.

Also you argument isn't really better. Despite statement against it, you are saying that Chara > Flowey through an ambigous feats. And note that Chara WANTED to destroy the world, Flowey was just playing with Frisk.

 

[SomebodyData]

It wasn't stated that Flowey DIDN'T destroy the world either tho. In fact, considering that the whole battle is in a void like Chara's and Asriel's, it is likely that he did it.
And other than that, the only power hint is Flowey stating to be stronger than Chara.

Double negative, your arguement relies on the lack of evidence or in other words mere speculation, any reality warping can change the setting of the battle, just saying.

The statement can be wrong as even Flowey isn't as knowledgeable of the six souls as he thought he was (ie look at his defeat)

 

[MirthfulDoggedness]

Flowey's determination is MASSIVE, massive enough to overpower Frisk's own. And considering her could command six human souls by a great margin, Flowey's stronger than Chara anyways. There's also the whole "LV 9999" deal. No contest in my eyes.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

Flowey's determination is MASSIVE, massive enough to overpower Frisk's own. And considering her could command six human souls by a great margin, Flowey's stronger than Chara anyways. There's also the whole "LV 9999" deal. No contest in my eyes.

What are you refering with "Her"? Frisk? You should know that by the time that Frisk falls to the Underground, all the souls are dead. So the only contests is between him and Flowey. Also, Frisk wasn't exactly at her best against Flowey considering the circunstances. And Chara not only relies in Determination (Which is also massive. Since she doesn't even need SAVE Points at all) but also in LOVE.

The "LV 9999" Is inconsistent to say the least. Could be very well Flowey messing with reality to mock you.

 

[Jesterofgames]

>Implying the file is canon
Stop, it's not. It's just a way for the game to track Genocide. Unlike any other 4th wall breaking in the game there is nothing hinting at it being canon.

Also Flowey ALSO crashed the game, so I don't see what Chara did more than Flowey there.

As i was debating with Azathoth in the other thread. The only reason why Photoshop Flowey is considered stronger than Chara is because Flowey himself states, at the beggining of the route. That his plan (steal the six souls) would make him stronger than Chara's plan. But, as i was saying there. Flowey's statement doesn't disregard any possibility of Chara being stronger than he thought. Also, Photoshop Flowey only crashes the game, while Chara Themself states that they erased the world. Which Photoshop Flowey never do and is never stated that he did it. The only two people who destroyed the world (And with world we refer to the total existence) were Chara and Asriel. So, yeah, it is stated in screen that Chara DID more than Flowey.

Flowey destroyed frisk's save file

Crashed the game

Crashes the game MORE if you die

Has 6 soul's

he is a void and there is nothing around after obliterating the save file

he renames the game flowey tale cause why the ***k not


Also Flowey obliterates the save file ..... Chara only minorly affect's it

so yeah Omega flowey should be stronger then Chara

 

[Jesterofgames]

also, small off topic thing that doesn't matter but are yall referring to Frisk and Chara as girl's cause that's your Head cannon to the gender they are?

or is there another reason

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

>Implying the file is canon
Stop, it's not. It's just a way for the game to track Genocide. Unlike any other 4th wall breaking in the game there is nothing hinting at it being canon.

Also Flowey ALSO crashed the game, so I don't see what Chara did more than Flowey there.

As i was debating with Azathoth in the other thread. The only reason why Photoshop Flowey is considered stronger than Chara is because Flowey himself states, at the beggining of the route. That his plan (steal the six souls) would make him stronger than Chara's plan. But, as i was saying there. Flowey's statement doesn't disregard any possibility of Chara being stronger than he thought. Also, Photoshop Flowey only crashes the game, while Chara Themself states that they erased the world. Which Photoshop Flowey never do and is never stated that he did it. The only two people who destroyed the world (And with world we refer to the total existence) were Chara and Asriel. So, yeah, it is stated in screen that Chara DID more than Flowey.

Flowey destroyed frisk's save file
Crashed the game

Crashes the game MORE if you die

Has 6 soul's

he is a void and there is nothing around after obliterating the save file

he renames the game flowey tale cause why the ***k not


Also Flowey obliterates the save file ..... Chara only minorly affect's it

so yeah Omega flowey should be stronger then Chara

1.-Chara destroyed the reality of the game. Casually.

2.-Chara did it too, and it was stated to be even worse (See above)

3.-(See above)

4.-Irrelevant. Frisk only had one and she still hold her own against Asriel, even if it was only a fraction of his power. And even after using his true power Frisk prevents him from reset

5.-Void that after you defeat him you see that there is still a world. Also, he refers to monsters and humans as beings that still exist ("I will show them the true meaning of this world") in other words. It isn't the same void.

6.-Absolutly irrelevant


Again, Chara erased the world. Feat who only Asriel could par. Destroying a SAVE File is nothing. She destroyed the compilation of all reality.

And i refer to both Frisk and Chara as girls. Mostly because while i was playing Undertale i imagine both as girls. So yeah, you could say that i headcanon them as girls.

 

[MirthfulDoggedness]

Flowey's determination is MASSIVE, massive enough to overpower Frisk's own. And considering her could command six human souls by a great margin, Flowey's stronger than Chara anyways. There's also the whole "LV 9999" deal. No contest in my eyes.

What are you refering with "Her"? Frisk? You should know that by the time that Frisk falls to the Underground, all the souls are dead. So the only contests is between him and Flowey. Also, Frisk wasn't exactly at her best against Flowey considering the circunstances. And Chara not only relies in Determination (Which is also massive. Since she doesn't even need SAVE Points at all) but also in LOVE.
The "LV 9999" Is inconsistent to say the least. Could be very well Flowey messing with reality to mock you.

"Her" was a typo that you were so kind to point out, I didn't even notice. If you didn't notice, Flowey was toying with Frisk the entire fight. He could've obliterated Frisk at any point in time, as shown at the end of the fight, as shown with the repeated spam of SAVE and LOAD with the beam. Sufficient Determination overpowers LOVE, as shown with Undyne the Undying, and I think no one can argue Undyne is more determined than Frisk. Determination (Sufficient enough) completely overrides any form of damage, by absolutely denying death. Overpowering Frisks' Determination is no joke, as it's less than or equal to Chara's.

Flowey and Chara both crashed the game, so there's that. The saves being invaded by Chara IS merely the game tracking Genocide. So I hope this can be ignored.

 

[SomebodyData]

I feel like it should be stated that SAVE and LOAD for Chara becomes DETERMINATION instead. Something not even Omega Flowey was capable of, so I would say that Chara may be leagues above Flowey

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

Flowey's determination is MASSIVE, massive enough to overpower Frisk's own. And considering her could command six human souls by a great margin, Flowey's stronger than Chara anyways. There's also the whole "LV 9999" deal. No contest in my eyes.

What are you refering with "Her"? Frisk? You should know that by the time that Frisk falls to the Underground, all the souls are dead. So the only contests is between him and Flowey. Also, Frisk wasn't exactly at her best against Flowey considering the circunstances. And Chara not only relies in Determination (Which is also massive. Since she doesn't even need SAVE Points at all) but also in LOVE.
The "LV 9999" Is inconsistent to say the least. Could be very well Flowey messing with reality to mock you.

"Her" was a typo that you were so kind to point out, I didn't even notice. If you didn't notice, Flowey was toying with Frisk the entire fight. He could've obliterated Frisk at any point in time, as shown at the end of the fight, as shown with the repeated spam of SAVE and LOAD with the beam. Sufficient Determination overpowers LOVE, as shown with Undyne the Undying, and I think no one can argue Undyne is more determined than Frisk. Determination (Sufficient enough) completely overrides any form of damage, by absolutely denying death. Overpowering Frisks' Determination is no joke, as it's less than or equal to Chara's.
Flowey and Chara both crashed the game, so there's that. The saves being invaded by Chara IS merely the game tracking Genocide. So I hope this can be ignored.

I've never contradict the fact that Flowey was toying with Frisk. Which also doesn't invalidate any of my arguments. Also, Determination doesn't "overpowers LOVE" (i don't even know what you are trying to infer with that) Mostly because Undyne ended up dying. Determination only helped her to raise her stats and put a fight. Also, Frisk Determination don't override anyform of damage (Since her soul can still be damaged) but only negates dead. Also, i think you are really lost with that argument. Are you trying to infer that Flowey > (End of Pacifist) Frisk? Because Frisk at the end of pacifist route has MUCH more Determination than Frisk at the end of neutral run. Specially because of the circunstances.

Also, Flowey only crashed the game. Chara's feat it is stated in screen to be more massive. I don't even know why they are putting them at the same level because "Both crashed the game"

 

[Promestein]

Talk about this on the other thread. You're literally just having the same debate here.