Regarding Parliaments, Swamp Thing, and Animal Man (Post-Crisis)

[Antvasima]

Thank you @Sandman31. That seems fine then.

Would you be willing to help out with properly updating the Swamp Thing profile page please?

 

[Y3kthunder]

Thank you @Sandman31. That seems fine then.

Would you be willing to help out with properly updating the Swamp Thing profile page please?

So wait a minute mars is just as strong as the voice now? An earth is multiversal now? That dont sound right. Literally alls swamp thing did in that story was become the soul of the earth. An became more akin. To the other planets souls such as the soul of mars and oa. The soul of rao etc. This all needs way more justification. He never rewrote creation nor was it ever implied. And tbh despite his holy quest to take down the voice there is literally no evidence he is anywhere close to its power

 

[Antvasima]

What do the rest of the knowledgeable members here think about the above post?

 

[Overlord775]

So wait a minute mars is just as strong as the voice now? An earth is multiversal now? That dont sound right. Literally alls swamp thing did in that story was become the soul of the earth. An became more akin. To the other planets souls such as the soul of mars and oa. The soul of rao etc. This all needs way more justification. He never rewrote creation nor was it ever implied. And tbh despite his holy quest to take down the voice there is literally no evidence he is anywhere close to its power

The Word treats Swamp as a threat and the Parmiaments themself have been shown countless times to operate on a scale vastly above just Earth, so him becoming one with the planet means nothing about his power, it's just a state of being

also there's the fact that the DC multiverse is pretty much Earth-centric, so just calling it a planet like any other is very much false

 

[Y3kthunder]

The Word treats Swamp as a threat and the Parmiaments themself have been shown countless times to operate on a scale vastly above just Earth, so him becoming one with the planet means nothing about his power, it's just a state of being

also there's the fact that the DC multiverse is pretty much Earth-centric, so just calling it a planet like any other is very much false

Yes he said he was a threat though despite them words hollands wife was the one who said holland couldn't beat the word. An yes your right the parliaments have shown vastly above planetary capabilities in other storys theres nothing to suggest they were anything but planetary in that story heck the greatest one in that story was the parliament of fire which was the sun.
An if holland was truly a threat to the voice would one not think he would show up an intervene instead of letting his weaker aspect fight his battle? Holland in said story went on a quest to get rid of the voice an to kinda eradicate humanity. Eventually when he became the champion of each of the parliaments he became an illuminated world and joined his place amongst the other illuminated worlds. To which nothing suggests he was anymore powerful than his peers. Or that his scope of power reach any further than planetary. Vs the voice who can speak throughout anything or anyone in creation. An Honestly the greatest feat wasnt even done by him in that story it was by his daughter an tbh that wasnt all that impressive when you consider superman did something similar to darkseid. So i think there needs to be more evidence that he was actually a threat to the voice cause to be frank he didn't even beat his servant

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, other than Y3k, would the rest of you be fine with if Sandman31 updates the Swamp Thing profile page?

 

[Y3kthunder]

Anyway, other than Y3k, would the rest of you be fine with if Sandman31 updates the Swamp Thing profile page?

Look i think a 1 A swampy could be more than fine with proper backing my issue here is that theyre people arguing that god swamp thing is literally amongst one of the most powerful beings with no proper backing. In that story He never rewrote creation. He didn't show anything on a galactic scale nevertheless universal or higher. The parliaments were never suggested to be anywhere close to the power that they have been shown in other stories. Again your arguing earths ocean an sun are multiversal in this story. Your arguing that he actually revivaled the voice in power when he never beat one of his aspects nevertheless actually fought an took him on. When really alls he was trying to do was to change a religion. I mean he literally said he wants mankind to not blindly follow the voice and how do they even do that? Through religious views. And again at the end of the day. He became the soul of the earth. When he describes what he became nothing there suggested he was anything beyond planetary he legit says he became the earth an took his place amongst the soul worlds who gained a better understanding of god and the universe. There was nothing to suggest he was anymore powerful then them either so again you be saying these beings are 1A as well

 

[Overlord775]

Yes he said he was a threat though despite them words hollands wife was the one who said holland couldn't beat the word.

you don't take the words of a normal woman over those of a cosmic entity

An yes your right the parliaments have shown vastly above planetary capabilities in other storys theres nothing to suggest they were anything but planetary in that story heck the greatest one in that story was the parliament of fire which was the sun.

You don't read a story that takes place in a continuity as a separate thing, you need to see the whole

An if holland was truly a threat to the voice would one not think he would show up an intervene instead of letting his weaker aspect fight his battle?

first, there's the whole Presence machinating fate, so for all we know he acting in the background

also, we are currently proposing him for 1-A because of the whole re-creating reality and because of that the Word should scale to the True form of the Spectre

Holland in said story went on a quest to get rid of the voice an to kinda eradicate humanity. Eventually when he became the champion of each of the parliaments he became an illuminated world and joined his place amongst the other illuminated worlds. To which nothing suggests he was anymore powerful than his peers. Or that his scope of power reach any further than planetary. Vs the voice who can speak throughout anything or anyone in creation. An Honestly the greatest feat wasnt even done by him in that story it was by his daughter an tbh that wasnt all that impressive when you consider superman did something similar to darkseid. So i think there needs to be more evidence that he was actually a threat to the voice cause to be frank he didn't even beat his servant

completly missing how the Word was unwilling to fight the Swamp Thing before he got his powers removed, i see.

also completly missing how said humanity includes several cosmic-level beings or with cosmic-level importance

also his daughter didn't as much as do the Superman thing, as replicating the Voice's voice, so it's different

 

[Y3kthunder]

you don't take the words of a normal woman over those of a cosmic entity


You don't read a story that takes place in a continuity as a separate thing, you need to see the whole


first, there's the whole Presence machinating fate, so for all we know he acting in the background

also, we are currently proposing him for 1-A because of the whole re-creating reality and because of that the Word should scale to the True form of the Spectre


completly missing how the Word was unwilling to fight the Swamp Thing before he got his powers removed, i see.

also completly missing how said humanity includes several cosmic-level beings or with cosmic-level importance

also his daughter didn't as much as do the Superman thing, as replicating the Voice's voice, so it's different

It wasnt just her though it was his daughter who said the word plans to murder him an im the only one who knows how to stop him.
To ur second point alls im saying is that authors have different dipections for each character some stories maybe more powerful than others. And unfortunately they did nothing to spectacular in said story. So if you want to prove theyre by all means find me scans of said era where theyre at the power your saying theyre.
As for your third point for all we know the presence didn't so kinda mute.
As him recreating reality can i ask when he did this because it certainly wasnt in the story im talking about. And as for him matching the word ill admit on a quick second look he did seem confindent in beating him an so didn't blake. But gain tefe stated only she could stop him. Granted maybe it was because she knew there plan. So you may have a point here.
As for your last point none of the cosmic beings that live upon the earth should be a match for the voice. Again if he was threatened he should've stepped in unfortunately he didn't and alec became a little enlightened about the voice. Also he literally said his influence was that of just the earth so again planetary. And i was comparing the similarities between what tefe did an what superman did. She roughly mimicked the opposite frequencies that brought the word into being. While supermans voice messed with the strings or something like that of darkseid

 

[Y3kthunder]

you don't take the words of a normal woman over those of a cosmic entity


You don't read a story that takes place in a continuity as a separate thing, you need to see the whole


first, there's the whole Presence machinating fate, so for all we know he acting in the background

also, we are currently proposing him for 1-A because of the whole re-creating reality and because of that the Word should scale to the True form of the Spectre


completly missing how the Word was unwilling to fight the Swamp Thing before he got his powers removed, i see.

also completly missing how said humanity includes several cosmic-level beings or with cosmic-level importance

also his daughter didn't as much as do the Superman thing, as replicating the Voice's voice, so it's different

I just want to show you anyone else who may care
Here we have swamp thing state he is the world the earth spinning on its axis
Later on when he speaks to the other worlds. mars confirms he had indeed become the earth.
He confirms this once again shown Here.
Now i know what ur gonna say weve been over this its just a state of being. Well how about this an i quote. I control 3 of the 4 elements on THIS EARTH tonight i will gain the 4th and i will be able to shape this world as i please, the word doesnt stand a chance
There you hv it its thats not confirmation of what i said idk what is

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, other than Y3k, would the rest of you be fine with if Sandman31 updates the Swamp Thing profile page?

 

[Y3kthunder]

How can you justify the swamp thing of that particular story as 1A when he strictly says he is planetary. An his powers come from the elements of a singke planet like those are his words. I can shape the world referring to singular planet given the context. Also where is the evidence of rewriting creation cause it wasnt apart of that story he became a single earth an reached illumination

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

How can you justify the swamp thing of that particular story as 1A when he strictly says he is planetary. An his powers come from the elements of a singke planet like those are his words. I can shape the world referring to singular planet given the context. Also where is the evidence of rewriting creation cause it wasnt apart of that story he became a single earth an reached illumination

Alright, how is any super version of a character going to be weaker then their base. Even the nerfed swamp things could beat him

 

[Y3kthunder]

Alright, how is any super version of a character going to be weaker then their base. Even the nerfed swamp things could beat him

Look my guy im just saying what the book itself said i even posted the scans swampy became an illuminated world and gained knowledge on god an the universe. He was repeatedly said to be the earth an he himself stated his powers came from the elements of a singular planet. That he coukd shape the world that he became. Again where did it state he could reshape creation? if you could provide that at the least that woukd be awesome. Like i said im not against a 1A swamp thing but with proper backing that would be nice

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Look my guy im just saying what the book itself said i even posted the scans swampy became an illuminated world and gained knowledge on god an the universe. He was repeatedly said to be the earth an he himself stated his powers came from the elements of a singular planet. That he coukd shape the world that he became. Again where did it state he could reshape creation? if you could provide that at the least that woukd be awesome. Like i said im not against a 1A swamp thing but with proper backing that would be nice

Once again, he literally remade creation. With only 3 parliaments, he was equal to god, and the word claimed that he was going to go above the presence. The Word is literally an aspect of the presence

 

[Overlord775]

It wasnt just her though it was his daughter who said the word plans to murder him an im the only one who knows how to stop him.

except the world refused to directly confront him untill he was depowered

To ur second point alls im saying is that authors have different dipections for each character some stories maybe more powerful than others. And unfortunately they did nothing to spectacular in said story. So if you want to prove theyre by all means find me scans of said era where theyre at the power your saying theyre.

characters scale across stories, as they are not separate bubbles but a whole

also there's the whole being an higher dimensional being

As for your third point for all we know the presence didn't so kinda mute.

do we now ?

As him recreating reality can i ask when he did this because it certainly wasnt in the story im talking about. And as for him matching the word ill admit on a quick second look he did seem confindent in beating him an so didn't blake. But gain tefe stated only she could stop him. Granted maybe it was because she knew there plan. So you may have a point here.

You sure love using for proof the word of human characters over the goddamn cosmic entities that are being talked about

also the Word himself said he's at that level

As for your last point none of the cosmic beings that live upon the earth should be a match for the voice.

proves he's not just planetary

Again if he was threatened he should've stepped in unfortunately he didn't and alec became a little enlightened about the voice. Also he literally said his influence was that of just the earth so again planetary. And i was comparing the similarities between what tefe did an what superman did. She roughly mimicked the opposite frequencies that brought the word into being. While supermans voice messed with the strings or something like that of darkseid

God works in mysterius ways

also being the Earth =/= Being limited to just Earth

and also yeah, she mimicryed the voice of a 1-A entity beyond the concept of sound which alone is snought to create other 1-A beings

kinda of a big deal

 

[Y3kthunder]

Once again, he literally remade creation. With only 3 parliaments, he was equal to god, and the word claimed that he was going to go above the presence. The Word is literally an aspect of the presence

When? he didn't remake creation in that story he wanted to eradicate humanity and remake them. He said an i quote again i control 3 of the 4 elements of this earth tonight i will gain the 4th an i will be able to shape this world as i please referring to the world he would become not the universe. Then he said the word woukd stand no chance ive posted this scan. Then once he reached illumination he couldn't bring himself to kill humanity away.
With three parliaments he was stated to rival the voice unfortunately talk is cheap how many times has surfrr said to have the power to best galactus but really didn't. Like i said the voice didn't even try to intervene which id think he would if he was in any reall danger an after swampy reached illumination. He learned god was the primordial atom that split into the universe and worlds coukd only reach him when they reached Illumination ive posted this to.
The word is an aspect of an aspect. Even going by swampy being stronger than him again swampy said alls it woukd take is the 4 elements on a singular planet to beat him his words not mine

 

[Y3kthunder]

@antivisma
Would it be better if i got either sandman or deagon to check what i was saying? You seem to trust there word
Sorry i dont know how to tag and it seemingly wont allow me to reply to you anti boyo.

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

Anyway, other than Y3k, would the rest of you be fine with if Sandman31 updates the Swamp Thing profile page?

I'd be fine with it.

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Anyway, other than Y3k, would the rest of you be fine with if Sandman31 updates the Swamp Thing profile page?

Yeah

 

[Antvasima]

@Sandman31

If I unlock the Swamp Thing profile page for you, would you be willing to handle this?

 

[Overlord775]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody else here willing and able to properly apply the conclusions reached by @Sandman31 ?

 

[Malomtek]

Is somebody else here willing and able to properly apply the conclusions reached by @Sandman31 ?

I possibly can. What will be the justifications?

 

[Antvasima]

I do not remember well anymore. My apologies. However, if you read all of Sandman31's posts above, you should probably be able to write a draft that you can show to us.

 

[Malomtek]

I do not remember well anymore. My apologies. However, if you read all of Sandman31's posts above, you should probably be able to write a draft that you can show to us.

Can you call him here so he can put it down for us? This thread has been a garbled mess so far, and I'm not going to tax myself trying to parse "cosmic comic metaphysics debate" #2769.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

@Sandman31

WOuld you be willing to help us out here please? We would appreciate the help.

 

[Overlord775]

bump

 

[Sandman31]

Okay.

@Sandman31

WOuld you be willing to help us out here please? We would appreciate the help.

Just change the possibly higher to possibly 1-A

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody knowledgeable able to apply what Sandman31 has decided please?

I would prefer if he is willing to handle it himself though.

 

[Malomtek]

Is somebody knowledgeable able to apply what Sandman31 has decided please?

I would prefer if he is willing to handle it himself though.

I might be willing.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. Please write a draft text here so he can evaluate it.

 

[Malomtek]

Thank you. Please write a draft text here so he can evaluate it.

For the "God Swamp Thing" key.

Tier: Low 1-C, possibly 1-A
Attack Potency: Low Complex Multiverse level, possibly Outerverse Level (potentially equal to the Voice itself, was going to replace Yahweh and recreate the whole of Creation, absorbed all of the Parliaments, exists as the full embodiment of the Green, a conceptual power equivalent to the Red, a completely nonphysical and transcendental "implicate order" of ideas and imagination from which the "explicate order" of physical reality merely unfolds from).

 

[Antvasima]

For the "God Swamp Thing" key.

Tier: Low 1-C, possibly 1-A
Attack Potency: Low Complex Multiverse level, possibly Outerverse Level (potentially equal to the Voice itself, was going to replace Yahweh and recreate the whole of Creation, absorbed all of the Parliaments, exists as the full embodiment of the Green, a conceptual power equivalent to the Red, a completely nonphysical and transcendental "implicate order" of ideas and imagination from which the "explicate order" of physical reality merely unfolds from).

@Sandman31

What do you think?

 

[Sandman31]

That looks fine

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you.

We preferably need some story source references and linked embedded images in the wiki profile page statistics justifications text as well though.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So this never got concluded.

 

[Antvasima]

@Sandman31 told me that he has been very busy with school lately, but will help with this and other revisions afterwards.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

so can this be added now

 

[Antvasima]

We havent reached any clear conclusions yet.

@Sandman31 @Deagonx @LuciferDC099 @Firestorm808

Would any of you be willing to help out here please?