Reid Astrea vs Accelerator

[Robo432343]

Reid Astrea

Reid Astrea was the first generation Sword Saint and one of the key figures in the sealing of the Witch of Envy 400 years ago. He is famous throughout history as both a hero who saved the world, and as the greatest swordsman to have ever lived due to being the sole existence to have ever reached...

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vs

Accelerator

The Accelerator is the name used to refer to the 1st-ranked Level 5, the strongest esper currently residing in Academy City. First appearing chronologically in Toaru Majutsu no Index as an antagonist, he later becomes the second protagonist of the series and primary male protagonist of the...

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SBA
Speed =

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Where did this wild idea come from?

I think Reid is too ridiculous, we are talking about a guy who is infinitely more skilled than Cecilus who can dodge raindrops, and slow down his perception of time to such a ludicrous degree, not to mention info analysis and analytical prediction.

Sure Alan could fire off High 4-C to 3-B stuff, but he doesn't start with that, and I don't think he will get the chance.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I don't think he really has a starting move, it can be whatever, from what I remember, he just doesn't start with the high ap stuff.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

if that is the case then Reid just swings his sword and the AP is enough to end the fight....

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Well this matchup is asking the question of
"would accelerator be able to manipulate cm type 2 EE slash"
if its a no then he loses instantly
if its a yes, then he can survive till Reid grows exponentially and blitzes him

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

pop

To be fair to Accelerator, he just needs to think and he can immediately pin Reid down with immeasurable lifting strength. Granted, he doesn't resist power nullification, so it is very likely Reid could just slash away Accelerator's vector shield and just breathe hard on Accelerator to disintegrate him through sheer AP, so meh.

that's all from me.

unpops

 

[MasterOwOgay]

what does Accelerator start with?

 

[Rez]

isn't accelerators vector shield 11-D?

Yes it is

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

isn't accelerators vector shield 11-D?

Yes. But. One way to get around it entirely is for a person to charge at Accelerator, punch him and simply pull back at the last second for Accelerator's vector shield to propel said fist towards Accelerator and hit him instead of reflecting it. Mind you, this is a "special move" that only a martial artist that knows Accelerator's power to a T could perform... safely.

A random assassin w/o much notable skill nor not much knowhow about Accelerator's power, 'sides knowing the trick itself existed, could do it. Albeit some damage was reflected back at his hand but he could continue fighting just find, IIRC.

All of these peps are random, mundane martial artist-and Reid is a skill god among skill gods in Re:Zero with instincts and combat knowhow, he could probably pull it off. Even in the worst case, he can still bypass Accelerator's barrier to land a single hit and Accelerator gets utterly wiped via sheer AP difference.

what does Accelerator start with?

Would probably try to engage in CQC, but he would likely won't be able to touch Reid through due to his sheer skill. And all of his dura-neg moves are touch-based, i.e, his blood reversal trick requires him to dig his fingers inside a person's wound to actually perform it.

From here, Reid simply needs to wait out Accelerator for 30mins until his power runs out and he turns into back into a cripple w/o power OR he just needs to force Accelerator unground/bury him in enough rubble to block his choker from getting a signal to disable him entirely that way as per the latest volume of ToAru.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Yes. But. One way to get around it entirely is for a person to charge at Accelerator, punch him and simply pull back at the last second for Accelerator's vector shield to propel said fist towards Accelerator and hit him instead of reflecting it. Mind you, this is a "special move" that only a martial artist that knows Accelerator's power to a T could perform... safely.

A random assassin w/o much notable skill nor not much knowhow about Accelerator's power, 'sides knowing the trick itself existed, could do it. Albeit some damage was reflected back at his hand but he could continue fighting just find, IIRC.

All of these peps are random, mundane martial artist-and Reid is a skill god among skill gods in Re:Zero with instincts and combat knowhow, he could probably pull it off. Even in the worst case, he can still bypass Accelerator's barrier to land a single hit and Accelerator gets utterly wiped via sheer AP difference.

Would probably try to engage in CQC, but he would likely won't be able to touch Reid through due to his sheer skill. And all of his dura-neg moves are touch-based, i.e, his blood reversal trick requires him to dig his fingers inside a person's wound to actually perform it.

From here, Reid simply needs to wait out Accelerator for 30mins until his power runs out and he turns into back into a cripple w/o power OR he just needs to force Accelerator unground/bury him in enough rubble to block his choker from getting a signal to disable him entirely that way as per the latest volume of ToAru.

Voting Reid based on this

 

[Doggo]

To be fair to Accelerator, he just needs to think and he can immediately pin Reid down with immeasurable lifting strength. Granted, he doesn't resist power nullification, so it is very likely Reid could just slash away Accelerator's vector shield and just breathe hard on Accelerator to disintegrate him through sheer AP, so meh.

Would his powernull even work on esper powers? Seems like its only magic-based.

Yes. But. One way to get around it entirely is for a person to charge at Accelerator, punch him and simply pull back at the last second for Accelerator's vector shield to propel said fist towards Accelerator and hit him instead of reflecting it. Mind you, this is a "special move" that only a martial artist that knows Accelerator's power to a T could perform... safely.

A random assassin w/o much notable skill nor not much knowhow about Accelerator's power, 'sides knowing the trick itself existed, could do it. Albeit some damage was reflected back at his hand but he could continue fighting just find, IIRC.

All of these peps are random, mundane martial artist-and Reid is a skill god among skill gods in Re:Zero with instincts and combat knowhow, he could probably pull it off. Even in the worst case, he can still bypass Accelerator's barrier to land a single hit and Accelerator gets utterly wiped via sheer AP difference.

It will still take him time to figure it out. The moment his sword touches reflection, it either breaks or snaps his arm.

Would probably try to engage in CQC, but he would likely won't be able to touch Reid through due to his sheer skill. And all of his dura-neg moves are touch-based, i.e, his blood reversal trick requires him to dig his fingers inside a person's wound to actually perform it.

From here, Reid simply needs to wait out Accelerator for 30mins until his power runs out and he turns into back into a cripple w/o power OR he just needs to force Accelerator unground/bury him in enough rubble to block his choker from getting a signal to disable him entirely that way as per the latest volume of ToAru.

Once Accelerator realizes the skill gap, he will simply resort to aoe or range attacks which he has a lot. He also can control vectors from a distance so he probably duranegs without needing to touch.

oh since it's SBA, Accel one shots to oblivion if a mere scratch even touched Reid

 

[Rez]

Would his powernull even work on esper powers? Seems like its only magic-based.

No the powernull won't work since the vector manip is 11D but fanta's other arguments about reid just being so skilled that he will figure out vector shields weakness will.

Once Accelerator realizes the skill gap, he will simply resort to aoe or range attacks which he has a lot. He also can control vectors from a distance so he probably duranegs without needing to touch.

oh since it's SBA, Accel one shots to oblivion if a mere scratch even touched Reid

He can control vectors from distance but that's very out of character, I am not keeping up with gt, but in the ot and nt books I remember him only doing it once, of course their might be some other instances that I am just not remembering, but that still means the amount of times Accel has done it is very small.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Would his powernull even work on esper powers? Seems like its only magic-based.

It's comes from a form of concept manipulation type 2, I would wage the power-null would work since Accelerator has never faced any form of concept manip.

It will still take him time to figure it out. The moment his sword touches reflection, it either breaks or snaps his arm.

Would wager the latter since Reid's sword is noted to be unbreakable and has been unaffected by space-time dura hax.

Once Accelerator realizes the skill gap, he will simply resort to aoe or range attacks which he has a lot. He also can control vectors from a distance so he probably duranegs without needing to touch.

oh since it's SBA, Accel one shots to oblivion if a mere scratch even touched Reid

How did that go against Touma, again? Right, he managed to evade and/or reduce the impact of Accelerator's blows by redircting them to parts that aren't his head or legs. Reid is millions of times more skilled than Touma and having potent battle-focused Reactive Evolution and Awakened Power essentially makes it so that Reid can "anime" it and get a potent speed boost right in the middle of battle to further reduce the chances of Accelerator landing a blow on him.

That. and due to how speed equal works, Reid will still have his Massively Hypersonic+ travel speed, so he can move much further distances away from Accel and he'll have a hard time catching up. Which helps Reid in waiting for Accelerator to time-out win-con, I suppose.

 

[Robo432343]

It's comes from a form of concept manipulation type 2, I would wage the power-null would work since Accelerator has never faced any form of concept manip.

Accelerator has never faced concept manip but i don't think Reid can null something like 11-D vector stuff either
wouldn't Accelerators vector stuff work on Reid's CM 2 because its 11-D??
its 50/50

 

[XDragnoir]

Yes. But. One way to get around it entirely is for a person to charge at Accelerator, punch him and simply pull back at the last second for Accelerator's vector shield to propel said fist towards Accelerator and hit him instead of reflecting it. Mind you, this is a "special move" that only a martial artist that knows Accelerator's power to a T could perform... safely.

A random assassin w/o much notable skill nor not much knowhow about Accelerator's power, 'sides knowing the trick itself existed, could do it. Albeit some damage was reflected back at his hand but he could continue fighting just find, IIRC.

All of these peps are random, mundane martial artist-and Reid is a skill god among skill gods in Re:Zero with instincts and combat knowhow, he could probably pull it off. Even in the worst case, he can still bypass Accelerator's barrier to land a single hit and Accelerator gets utterly wiped via sheer AP difference.

Would probably try to engage in CQC, but he would likely won't be able to touch Reid through due to his sheer skill. And all of his dura-neg moves are touch-based, i.e, his blood reversal trick requires him to dig his fingers inside a person's wound to actually perform it.

From here, Reid simply needs to wait out Accelerator for 30mins until his power runs out and he turns into back into a cripple w/o power OR he just needs to force Accelerator unground/bury him in enough rubble to block his choker from getting a signal to disable him entirely that way as per the latest volume of ToAru.

Reid doesn't have prior knowledge about Accelerator to know about that, wtf? And there aren't any similar abilities in his verse to even compare Accelerator to AFAIK.

Accel can fight after the base 30mins time limit with his Wings, PW specifically can be activated with just a thought unlike the other 2.

Voting Reid based on this

None of those are saving Reid here, Accel can activate PW with a thought and vector hax him to not be able to move.

 

[Doggo]

How did that go against Touma, again? Right, he managed to evade and/or reduce the impact of Accelerator's blows by redircting them to parts that aren't his head or legs. Reid is millions of times more skilled than Touma and having potent battle-focused Reactive Evolution and Awakened Power essentially makes it so that Reid can "anime" it and get a potent speed boost right in the middle of battle to further reduce the chances of Accelerator landing a blow on him.

That. and due to how speed equal works, Reid will still have his Massively Hypersonic+ travel speed, so he can move much further distances away from Accel and he'll have a hard time catching up. Which helps Reid in waiting for Accelerator to time-out win-con, I suppose.

There is a LOT of context regarding Touma's fights with Accelerator

1st figth: This is against a very inexperienced and arrogant Accel, who for the first time finds someone who can bypass his reflection. He spent a lot of the fight toying with him before he finally got hit in the face. Even then he still kicked Touma"s butt the moment he pulled out his wind manip
2nd: Accel was literally on a rampage and not thinking straight. Touma's precog is likely better than Reid's if his feats against Othinus are anything to consider.
3rd: Accel willingly threw it lmao

That. and due to how speed equal works, Reid will still have his Massively Hypersonic+ travel speed, so he can move much further distances away from Accel and he'll have a hard time catching up. Which helps Reid in waiting for Accelerator to time-out win-con, I suppose.

He is a sword fighter...trying to move farther away just makes things worse for him. Like I previously said, the moment his blade touches Accel, his arm goes bye-bye. Regarding speed, Accel can simply fly away and spam AOE attacks like a maniac. He also wouldn't immediately know he has to wait 30 minutes to win and Accelerator's wing forms remove the limit

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

snip

snip

It's literally just a matter of skill.

Yada yada Re:Zero works on a sorta of "skill-chain", in short, a skilled fighter has all of the abilities that lesser skilled fighters has via the flow method (Re:Zero's magic system). And Reid stands at the very topic of this skill chain.

In essence, Reid, though this skill-chain, can immediately deduce a fighter's capabilities by looking at a person, can predict a person's future attack by just looking at how their bodies move (i.e, like Touma's own precog), dodge attacks faster than his eyesight by reading a person's intent. Also, smth smth, Reid has access to white rays that only he can see that shows him the optimal path to victory, so they might just show him how to "beat" Accelerator and all he needs to do is follow them.

Also, there is his perception crud that can accelerate (heh) his thought to slow down his perception of time for more time to think, that is upscaling from two very skilled swordsmen. Or how Reid's reaction time can get faster if he just focuses.

... Basically, barring the higher tier peps like Slime, Re:Zero is among the strongest light novel verses through sheer skill bullshit.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Satella can explain more in-depth about Re:Zero stuff as I am a casual at best. But I do think I gave the general idea on how "skilled" Reid is.

 

[Zabazab]

If, by knowing the trick of Vector manipulation, you can "counter" it by say pulling back your attack at the last second, Reid most definitely takes this.

Reid himself deduced via intuition that an imperceptable soul-connection that was consigning Ram's physical burden to Subaru must exist, and that he should cut it. Even more insane is that Cecilus, whom is vastly below Reid, identified the nature of Al's Authority by sheer guesswork.

 

[Doggo]

I hate re:zero skill scaling (love the show tho)

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I hate re:zero skill scaling (love the show tho)

Blame Re:Zero having a peak VSBW community that has peps helping it grow and thrive /jk

 

[Zabazab]

I hate re:zero skill scaling (love the show tho)

Blame the novels for having pure unfiltered skillslop hiding within them.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Reid doesn't have prior knowledge about Accelerator to know about that, wtf? And there aren't any similar abilities in his verse to even compare Accelerator to AFAIK.

Accel can fight after the base 30mins time limit with his Wings, PW specifically can be activated with just a thought unlike the other 2.


None of those are saving Reid here, Accel can activate PW with a thought and vector hax him to not be able to move.

Reid would easily adapt to smth as simple as changing vectors since Ram (according to statements even an infinite amount of training wouldnt get her to Theresia's Level, who in turn could spend multiple eternities and never reach Reid's skill) could manipulate her environment and herself in a similar way to limited vector manipulation via her wind magic making herself completely unreadable to Ley Batenkaitos who is a skill god in his own right (his shit is too deep to explain but basically he is the culmination of multiple transcendents and he excelled at EVERYTHING to a degree which wouldnt ever be seen again)

Also worth mentioning Reid can straight up create new forms/techniques for any given situation
For eg. he once perfected "the technique required to move flawlessly through a falling tower", his adaption is also instant due to his perception speed being so comically high (scales from cecilus who spent casually having an entire schizophrenic episode talking to an older/younger version of himself and then training with a sword and swinging it hundreds of millions of times in the instant he touched the sword mid-combat)

There is a LOT of context regarding Touma's fights with Accelerator

1st figth: This is against a very inexperienced and arrogant Accel, who for the first time finds someone who can bypass his reflection. He spent a lot of the fight toying with him before he finally got hit in the face. Even then he still kicked Touma"s butt the moment he pulled out his wind manip
2nd: Accel was literally on a rampage and not thinking straight. Touma's precog is likely better than Reid's if his feats against Othinus are anything to consider.
3rd: Accel willingly threw it lmao

Give me some of his precog feats (although fanta already addressed why Accel probably isnt as good at it as Reid)

He is a sword fighter...trying to move farther away just makes things worse for him. Like I previously said, the moment his blade touches Accel, his arm goes bye-bye. Regarding speed, Accel can simply fly away and spam AOE attacks like a maniac. He also wouldn't immediately know he has to wait 30 minutes to win and Accelerator's wing forms remove the limit

Reid Asstrea can simply follow a flying accelerator via skill (and air walking)
His Godly intuition would let him know that he needs to outlast Accel to win at the very least if not straight up tell him how to defeat Accelerator altogether

 

[Doggo]

Give me some of his precog feats (although fanta already addressed why Accel probably isnt as good at it as Reid)

Good enough for him to react to MFTL+ arrows despite only peak human speed

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Good enough for him to react to MFTL+ arrows despite only peak human speed

as someone who had to deal with the Ram downgrade...its either him being MFTL+ or an outlier

 

[XDragnoir]

That. and due to how speed equal works, Reid will still have his Massively Hypersonic+ travel speed, so he can move much further distances away from Accel and he'll have a hard time catching up. Which helps Reid in waiting for Accelerator to time-out win-con, I suppose.

Also, that's not how speed equal works at all.

 

[Zabazab]

as someone who had to deal with the Ram downgrade...its either him being MFTL+ or an outlier

If I can't have bullshit speed-gap-nullifying analytical precog skillslop... no-one can.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

as someone who had to deal with the Ram downgrade...its either him being MFTL+ or an outlier

If I can't have bullshit speed-gap-nullifying analytical precog skillslop... no-one can.

Insert crying emoji.

Also, that's not how speed equal works at all.

It is. If there is a separate category of speeds, it won't be affected by speed equal. That's why Stand Users can keep their MFTL+ reactions and have MFTL+ stands despite speed equal being applied. IIRC, this is to prevent gun user's shots from becoming Average Human level in speed if the gun themselves has a stated speed for example.

So Reid gets to keep his MHS+ travel speed... or Reid's MHS+ travel speed gets equalized to Accel's speed... but his FTL+ reactions gets to stay, if I am not mistaken.

 

[XDragnoir]

If, by knowing the trick of Vector manipulation, you can "counter" it by say pulling back your attack at the last second, Reid most definitely takes this.

You need knowledge about Accelerator's calc patterns to pull it, alongside the nature of his and esper powers in general, the first alone Reid won't have, much less the others.

Reid himself deduced via intuition that an imperceptable soul-connection that was consigning Ram's physical burden to Subaru must exist, and that he should cut it. Even more insane is that Cecilus, whom is vastly below Reid, identified the nature of Al's Authority by sheer guesswork.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the vector shield and the Kihara Counter, at best that means he would know Accel has an aura around him and he would either try to cut the aura or know to not touch it, neither of which are going to work.

 

[Zabazab]

So Reid gets to keep his MHS+ travel speed... or Reid's MHS+ travel speed gets equalized to Accel's speed... but his FTL+ reactions gets to stay, if I am not mistaken.

If Reid's travel speed is 300x lower than his combat speed, after equalization his new travel speed would still be 300x lower than his new combat speed.

 

[XDragnoir]

Insert crying emoji.

It is. If there is a separate category of speeds, it won't be affected by speed equal. That's why Stand Users can keep their MFTL+ reactions and have MFTL+ stands despite speed equal being applied. IIRC, this is to prevent gun user's shots from becoming Average Human level in speed if the gun themselves has a stated speed for example.

So Reid gets to keep his MHS+ travel speed... or Reid's MHS+ travel speed gets equalized to Accel's speed... but his FTL+ reactions gets to stay, if I am not mistaken.

"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight, etc."

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You're completely misunderstanding how the rule works.

 

[Zabazab]

You need knowledge about Accelerator's calc patterns to pull it, alongside the nature of his and esper powers in general, the first alone Reid won't have, much less the others.

He'd guess and be correct.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the vector shield and the Kihara Counter, at best that means he would know Accel has an aura around him and he would either try to cut the aura or know to not touch it, neither of which are going to work.

He'd guess what it does and be correct.

 

[XDragnoir]

He'd guess and be correct.


He'd guess what it does and be correct.

Vector shield doesn't work like the soul connection or whatever does, they aren't comparable much less equivalent.

What you're saying is literally "he will simply do it" with no good feat backing it up.

 

[XDragnoir]

Reid would easily adapt to smth as simple as changing vectors since Ram (according to statements even an infinite amount of training wouldnt get her to Theresia's Level, who in turn could spend multiple eternities and never reach Reid's skill) could manipulate her environment and herself in a similar way to limited vector manipulation via her wind magic making herself completely unreadable to Ley Batenkaitos who is a skill god in his own right (his shit is too deep to explain but basically he is the culmination of multiple transcendents and he excelled at EVERYTHING to a degree which wouldnt ever be seen again)

Actually what? You're really treating wind magic to actual macro-quantum reality manipulation? For real?

There's no adapting to be done here, he can't resist Accel's vector hax.

Also worth mentioning Reid can straight up create new forms/techniques for any given situation
For eg. he once perfected "the technique required to move flawlessly through a falling tower", his adaption is also instant due to his perception speed being so comically high (scales from cecilus who spent casually having an entire schizophrenic episode talking to an older/younger version of himself and then training with a sword and swinging it hundreds of millions of times in the instant he touched the sword mid-combat)

He definitely could pull the Kihara Counter, sadly he won't ever get to know about it and will die before having a chance to use it.

Give me some of his precog feats (although fanta already addressed why Accel probably isnt as good at it as Reid)

Touma has the precog, not Accel.

Reid Asstrea can simply follow a flying accelerator via skill (and air walking)
His Godly intuition would let him know that he needs to outlast Accel to win at the very least if not straight up tell him how to defeat Accelerator altogether

It's definitely not doing the latter, he won't get to do the former once the wings appear.

 

[Zabazab]

Vector shield doesn't work like the soul connection or whatever does, they aren't comparable much less equivalent.

What you're saying is literally "he will simply do it" with no good feat backing it up.

They can just guess things and always be right. "He will simply do it" is exactly it– it's bullshit, and that's the point.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Reid would easily adapt to smth as simple as changing vectors

NLF, the vector thing is 11-D. You using an example of Ram is laughable.

No matter Re:Zero's skill scaling chain, it's still limited to 3-D (or 4-D if it has something on the back)

 

[Zabazab]

NLF, the vector thing is 11-D. You using an example of Ram is laughable.

No matter Re:Zero's skill scaling chain, it's still limited to 3-D (or 4-D if it has something on the back)

Dimensionality isn't even a factor. Idc about the Ram argument, it's just yap, but Countering The Ability (pulling back your punch, apparantly) can be done by anyone.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Dumb thought... Couldn't Reid just cut the connection/signal between the Misaka Network and Accelerator like what he did with Cor Leonis?

That shit isn't 11-D like Accelerator's vector shield and it essentially works like internet signal-to the point that going underground without proper preparation can outright disrupt Accelerator's power. So concept manip might work on that. Idk for sure, tho.

 

[Zabazab]

Dumb thought... Couldn't Reid just cut the connection between the Misaka Network and Accelerator?

That shit isn't 11-D and it essentially works like internet signal-to the point that going underground without proper preparation can outright disrupt Accelerator's power.

Probably

 

[XDragnoir]

They can just guess things and always be right. "He will simply do it" is exactly it– it's bullshit, and that's the point.

Because doing things without sufficient feats to back it up is exactly how VSBW works, definitely.

Dimensionality isn't even a factor. Idc about the Ram argument, it's just yap, but Countering The Ability (pulling back your punch, apparantly) can be done by anyone.

It can't be done by "anyone", you need actual understanding of the math and the physics behind his powers at a minimum and definitely some level of understanding about the reality warping nature of it.

You're literally comparing oranges to apples and pulling NLFs as if it was a good argument.

Dumb thought... Couldn't Reid just cut the connection/signal between the Misaka Network and Accelerator like what he did with Cor Leonis?

That shit isn't 11-D like Accelerator's vector shield and it essentially works like internet signal-to the point that going underground without proper preparation can outright disrupt Accelerator's power. So concept manip might work on that. Idk for sure, tho.

Which doesn't really matter given the Wings don't require the signal from the choker as we see when he first awakens them (and in his manga there was a pretty similar case).