Rimuru vs Han

[FloweryAlex]

Rimuru Tempest (Light Novel)

Han Jee-Ha

Speed Equal

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Oh for god's sak- oh, it's light novel Rim.

Yeah, he does't seem to have much on Han.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

^

My exact reaction.

Flowery, ya gotta stop giving Risci heart attacks.

 

[FloweryAlex]

That's no fun tough.

And let's be honest, I need to get ridicolous to find a good much for Han.


Also, ricsi, do give reasonings just so that I can count the vote.

 

[NeoSuperior]

This battle is dead. Rimuru just got upgraded to High 7-A.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

AP hardly changes things.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

How does Han handle Rimuru's regen?

And what stops Rimuru from absorbing him?

 

[Dragopentling]

^what Celestial said

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Ways for getting around regen off the top of my head:

Magical shackles of binding into sleep manip

Spatial distortion bullets may or may not do the trick


He also has mind manip.

One form has a several meter distance where he flicks his palm up and releases magical light at his opponent that turns them into a vegetable if they don't have resistance.

He can also summon an imaginary creature that drives insane anyone who sees it.


That's all I can think of right now. As for getting past absorption, it depends on how it works.

 

[PaChi2]

How does Han handle Rimuru's regen?

And what stops Rimuru from absorbing him?

The answer is: Douchery.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Sleep manipulation won't work cause Rimuru is a slime thus doesn't need it.

Mind manipulation Rimuru resists.

Rimuru can absorb a person with glutton, he points and a wave/tornado thing comes out of his hand and absorbs you, it even works on intangible beings. After which Rimuru will analyze and gain all Han's abilities.

 

[Dragopentling]

Han isn't resisting the Analysis ability.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Han and co don't need to sleep either, doesn't stop it from working on them.

What's his vest resistance feat? Han has at least a million, possibly planetary mindhax.

There is no way he can analyze his gamer's powers, and if he did Gaia would take them away anyways. That means Han looks at his resistances, and unless his mind rwesistance is better than his profile implies, Han just mindhaxes.

Copying his hound would drive him crazy. Absorbtion can be teleported away from, and a jojo pose makes him unable to move to begin with.

Han also move faster than him too with passive and active stat amps, and

 

[NeoSuperior]

Rimuru's mind is protected by his Unique Skill Great Sage, a self-aware, AI-like abstract existence that resides within Rimuru's soul. It managed to partially "hack" part of the "Voice of the World" to use its voice function. The Voice of the World is the system of the multiverse, hence at least 2-C. That, by the way, also means that Rimuru wouldn't be affected by Gaia, since he is under a different system to begin with.

Everything else becomes an AP stomp. Rimuru's Multilayer-Barrier harmlessly makes everything bounce off off him since he is 10000x stronger. Rimuru shots a few Modelwill bolts that break through all of Jee-Han's shields and resistances and instantly kills Jee-Han. Absorption isn't even neccessary.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

If he tried to copy Gaia's powers what system he's under would be a non-factor, and I don't see resistance to fate manip, which is explicitly stated to be needed to resists Han's enslavement spell.

Spatial manip is also part of the everything else, and Rimuru would have plenty problems catching Han. He might just think he's a demon and leave him in a ID to begin with.

 

[NeoSuperior]

By the time Rimuru would absorb Jee-Han's powers, Jee-Han would already be dead anyway so I don' think we have to delve too much into it. Though if Rimuru eats Magic with Glutton, he is able to "reverse-engineer" it and use it by himself - and in a form that scales to his own powers.

Unique Skills are the shape of the mind itself and the Unique Skills are located within the soul. So you need to have some sort soul hax to alter or bind Rimuru's mind like that. And Rimuru's soul is strong enough to resist all the comsic forces when traveling between Universes by itself.

Also Rimuru got his Extra Skill Control Magic which enables him to influence or even control the magic and magical energy in his surroundings (the range would scale to 300 meters) on molecular level.

As for IDs, if those would even affect Rimuru considering he isn't part of Gaia's power system, he'd still be able to escape via Spatial Motion.

On the other hand, any attack by Rimuru would instantly obliterate Jee-Han just by touching it. AP difference of 4 tiers, about 10000x the power of Jee-Han.

Anyway, this is pointless. Rimuru's current key will likely still be expanded soon, in about 2 weeks since the 5th volume of the LN will be released in English. In addition he'll get his second key for this version as well.

But thank you of reminding me of The Gamer. I have almost forgotten about it. Time to catch up with it.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

@NeoSuperior

Catching up? I hope you enjoy it.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

But he cannot absorb Han's Gamer's powers, and most of his abilities completely depend on that.

Yoohwa can rip her soul out of her body and out it into another one. I'd say that his powers coming from the soul would still need to overcome fate manip regardless. The whole tier 2 thing is also completely missing from the profile.

Demons aren't part of gaia, that has nothing to really do withit. And ID's on Han's level can resist spatial manipulators.

That doesn't mean that much at all. He was going up against peeps that one-shot him the whole time.

Any new keus he hets aren't much of a factor here either.

All that, and Han does move much faster becase of his amos.

 

[NeoSuperior]

As I said, absorption isn't going to take place before Jee-Han is dead anyway.

It's a verse equalization issue it seems. If it's absorption TheGamer-verse takes priority so Rimuru can't use his Skill in the manner he usually does? Enslavement spell, again TheGamer-verse takes priority, Rimuru can't resist because Rimuru has to operate under TheGamer-verse's system now? IDs which were made by Gaia, for individuals under Gaia give a free BFR for any relevant TheGamer-verse character? Basically the entire argument here seems to be "Gaia does something so Rimuru loses and Rimuru can't do anything because he fully operates under TheGamer-verse rules now." Verse-equalization didn't mean to one-sidedly give preference to one side, you know. (As for why stuff is missing? The profile is incomplete because recent split of WN/LN profiles. Actual Magic is missing for example)

Again refer to above. It's basically all home turf advantage for Jee-Han when nothing in the OP would indicate that. It sounds more and more like this is actually Rimuru vs Gaia now. I remember that Protective Spaces (or whatever that was called), which includes Jee-Han's Instant Dungeons, are actually made and maintained by Gaia, no? and resistance? Rimuru's Skills scale to himself and the Spatial Motion is shown to be able to escape from a space that's completely disconnected from regular space. Unless you want to refer to Gaia once again, High 7-A wins over High 7-C, infact it's about 10000x stronger.

I haven't caught up to where I stopped before my current read from the beginning yet, but I remember that most who can potentially one-shot him were usually fightining someone else before or at the same time, while others had high attack power but low enough defenses. for Jee-Han to make a dent, which isn't the case here.

I mean he is going to get a change to THIS key we are using right now.

Jee-Han moving faster is irrelevant because of Speed=

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Don't really have much of a take on the match here. But some key points:

Verses can only be equalized if the aspects are similar enough. Seeing as how the verses seem to be treated so differently, it may be best not to equalize them, or at least this particular aspect.

Additionally, speed being equalized doesn't account for stat amps, so Han could indeed be faster.

Lastly, ya gotta catch up Neo, lol. Jee-Han is far from needing help. I don't think he's really needed help in a 1v1 since season 1 with one or two exceptions. Even in season 1, he took care of a lot of things himself, minus the fight against The President of course.

I'm also unsure about Yoohwa ripping her soul out of her body.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

...


No, it isn't. There is no verse equal going on. His powers are bestowed by a deity that is willing to forcefully take them away if needed, and said deity backs up his enslavement. As long as someone can't break fate manip, they can't break Han's enslavement regardless of tier and abilities they have.

IDs are not made for individuals under Gaia's influence, if they were transcendent like Harem King and Arc Company couldn't use them, which would be a massive problem (tough, the latter can make his own dimensions, admittedly). ID is specified to be a spatial manipulation spell. They borrow Gaia's power, and use it as a battleground more often than not, but it can be used however one wishes beyond that.

There is no verse equalization going on at all. Well, there is, but not due to SBA but due to Han's power, as they automatically warp reality to "gamify" things, as Seeker described it. You seem to be misunderstanding the mechanics of Han's powers. IDs aren't verse specific, and non-supernaturals and those completely unaffected by Gaia can use them. Enslavement is not a verse thing either, it's Han's power saying that anyone that doesn't transcend fate will be forcefully subdued by Gaia's fate manip. Kind of like how "mana" as far as he is concerned is: ki, mental energy, negative dimension energy, soul energy, soul fire energy, and many more. Another example is how fool's act paralyzes the enemy. It's so dumb looking that the enemy is dumbfounded, regardless of the fact that no massively hypersonic would be shocked for several seconds, because his powers say so.


See above. It's not verse equal, it's simply how his powers work. Han's IDs are specifically the exception to the rule, being actual physical pocketdimensions, as opposed to illusory realities. Wheater Gaia constantly empowers him, or she simply slapped the power onto him and left him as is is unknown, so it's also unknown if she maintains his stuff. Spatial Manipulation is not something you can put a tier on.

There are tier 6 gods in verse, their spatial manip is still inferior to the High 7-C Seeker. Unless he actually overcame pocket dimension that resist being broken out of, that is that.


I'm guessing you stopped at season 1? Because he stopped getting help, and was the main fighter after that. He just does everything in his power to not get close range with the enemy unless needed. And for the matter, yes there is someone else to help him. He has hundreds of golems, and his elemental too.


Well, that depends on what changes will be made. Until then, things don't really change.


Stat amps>Speed Equal

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I also doubt that you can equate tier with mindhax, even with tier 2. "Hacking" into a tier 2 doesn't mean you can counter tier 2 (or lower) mindhax by it's own.

 

[NeoSuperior]

I finally caught up with The Gamer to the most recent chapter after re-starting from the beginning. It's really a great and fun series and I do enjoy reading it a lot, but I feel like you are being dishonest here, Risci.

First off, none of the powers "scale up to Gaia" unless explicitly stated so and no, "granted by Gaia" or "managed by Gaia" does not mean a user of such power can create something on AP scale equal to Gaia. Innate Powers granted by Gaia are "exceptional", yes, but nowhere does it actually say that the skills scale up to Gaia's AP through that. The only thing that DOES get said is that it grants the ability to penetrate the absolute effects of other "Gaia approved" innate abilities, e.g. Gamer's Mind vs Divine Connection. But while they are granted by Gaia they don't scale up any techniques to that.

Infact I have evidence of the contrary. The ID for example. The system outright tells that "any magic power lower than that of Jihan-Han cannot damage the barrier", which in turn means anyone with equal or higher magic power can. With the enormous AP gap there is not even a question about that since Rimuru is 10000x stronger. So it can be broken through with brute force alone. In other words even something that's "managed by Gaia" doesn't grant you Gaia's AP.

And this is the most important of them all: Your claim about the enslavement power needing Fate Manipulation resistance to defend against. That's non-sense. I was already suspicious just from the description, but reading the relevant passages in the story myself, I know that it doesn't work like that.

What DOES need the Fate Manipulation resistance is the AFTER, not the BEFORE of the spell. If you are bound by it already, then the only way to free yourself is by obtaining Resistance to Fate Manipulation. However the spell "Forced Contract of Subordination" itself doesn't have that sort of power. It's just a "normal" Hexa Spell that can be easily dealt with by the enourmous AP difference in place here plus Rimuru's "Control Magic", plus the Magic Resistance within both Rimuru himself and his passive Multilayer Barrier. Moreover there are two lines from the webtoon that show that it's usually a very difficult spell to use:

1. It needs to be used on a "weakened" opponent.
2. In the one case Jee-Han used it, it only even worked to well because they were in the "imaginative realm" and is much harder to use outside.

So THAT won't be getting anywhere with Rimuru.

Stat amps would scale with AP, so... Rimuru's own are 10000 times stronger than Jee-Han's?

I know you are passionate about wanting to bridge this AP gap, but it's clearly not going to work.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Bariers can be damaged by a specific skill made to do exactly that, a skill than han perfected to the point where he can cherry pick which parts to destroy. That doesn't mean that any normal attack will damage it (the main reason why Han went for mindhax instead of smashing Changheon's pocket dimension), and teleportation has no inherent AP at all.


And... no. The magical contract itself is enforced by Gaia. If he gets to actually activate it, it stays as it is.


Speed amps don't scale with AP, not sure where you get that of all things from.

 

[NeoSuperior]

I am just citing what the story actually says. I don't care if you try to ignore that just because you find it inconvenient. Infact Jee-Han gained that skill simply by emitting his mana a bit, which means it's the basis of Barrier Destruction, simple enough. Rimuru who can learn Skills almost as easily as Jee-Han would be able to optimize that process with Great Sage easily with its "All of Creation" Ability. With Rimuru's 10000x stronger than Jee-Han's magic power, destroying the barrier itself would be easy enough even if the process were still a bit clumsy after just having learned it.

You still think the forced contract would work? Do I really need to screencap the parts where he states that it not only "worked so well" because it was in the imaginative realm where mindhax are enhanced, but also only works against "weakened" opponents? What I am saying it wouldn't successfully activate in the first place, because

1. He wouldn't be able to "weaken" Rimuru in the first place.
2. His magic wouldn't get through Rimuru's magic control field.
3. He wouldn't get through Rimuru's barrier or innate magic resistance.

To put it simply, a scenario where it would successfully activate is pretty much impossible.

Rimuru's enhancements, escpacially the Art/Aura ones, do scale with his AP, definitly.