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I'm taking a break from spamming inFAMOUS to spam Steven Universe. I'll changethe Digimon being used if this is unfair.
Both at High 6-B
Speed Equalized.
Both at High 6-B
Speed Equalized.
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Rose Quartz vs. WarGreymon
- Thread starter The_Wright_Way
- Start date
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ohboy
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- Thread starter
- #3
Bump.
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>WarGreymon
The 3-C...?
The 3-C...?
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Okay then they should actually be relatively equal AP-wise. Rose scales to people who casually oneshot baseline High 6-Bs and MetalGreymon is stronger than Greymon, who is baseline, to the point that the latter doesnt even compare.
How does Greymon's power null work?
How does Greymon's power null work?
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Greymon doesn't have it, I think that's the Wargreymon key based on it stating he can combine with MetalGarurumon to become Omnimon. MetalGreymon should be the third key in the Powers and Abilities section, since it mentions his ability to fire missiles. The key structure in that section makes it somewhat more confusing but I'm fairly positive that key is for the form we're using here.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something, this form has Large Star level AP, due to being superior to Wendigomon(it's listed as Wendimon in the justification though, likely an error). I shall try to explain my reasoning below.
The previous key in the AP section refers to being an X-Antibody form, and the one before that says it scales from Champions like Meramon which implies it's the Folder Greymon variant. Looking at the keys after it, we can see that the next refers to a Folder variant of MetalGreymon, with the next one being obviously for Skullgreymon. Based on the key structuring, I think it's likely that the form we're using has Large Star level AP.
It might be preferable to use a Folder Greymon.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something, this form has Large Star level AP, due to being superior to Wendigomon(it's listed as Wendimon in the justification though, likely an error). I shall try to explain my reasoning below.
The previous key in the AP section refers to being an X-Antibody form, and the one before that says it scales from Champions like Meramon which implies it's the Folder Greymon variant. Looking at the keys after it, we can see that the next refers to a Folder variant of MetalGreymon, with the next one being obviously for Skullgreymon. Based on the key structuring, I think it's likely that the form we're using has Large Star level AP.
It might be preferable to use a Folder Greymon.
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Oy...
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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I think the powernull is in the Wargraymon key.
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Okay then what does MetalGreymon have here?
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MetalGreymon also has flight and much higher range than Greymon so it's probably for the best that it's switched to Folder Greymon since MetalGreymon oneshots if my deduction is correct. If I'm wrong then Metal is a fine opponent, but just in case I'll post a bit about Greymon.
Greymon likely starts with Acceleration Boost to double the power of his next attack and either closing distance to hit with Horn Crash or burning at range with Nova Flame. He's smart enough by this point to modify strategies if something doesn't work, or abandon something that is shown not to work at all. Greymon is essentially just a smaller, weaker, MetalGreymon with lower overall stats and worse attacks.
MetalGreymon is the same, except with missiles and metal claws as well. The missiles are organic, if it helps to know that. He also has much higher durability thanks to Chrome Digizoid armour.
Greymon likely starts with Acceleration Boost to double the power of his next attack and either closing distance to hit with Horn Crash or burning at range with Nova Flame. He's smart enough by this point to modify strategies if something doesn't work, or abandon something that is shown not to work at all. Greymon is essentially just a smaller, weaker, MetalGreymon with lower overall stats and worse attacks.
MetalGreymon is the same, except with missiles and metal claws as well. The missiles are organic, if it helps to know that. He also has much higher durability thanks to Chrome Digizoid armour.
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Greymon is baseline High 6-B, Rose is equal to people who can casually oneshot baseline High 6-Bs
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Then it's not really equal either way. It's a shame but the match doesn't seem possible at the moment.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Looks like Fire Manipulation, Self Information Manipulation and Reactive Evolution via Overwrite, Soul Manipulation and Mind Manipulation with every hit, resistance to said previous manips, Statistics Amplification, Flight, Missiles and Poison Manipulation.
take too long and ya get super ninja'd
take too long and ya get super ninja'd
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They should actually be relatively equal AP-wise. Rose scales to people who casually oneshot baseline High 6-Bs and File Island MetalGreymon is stronger than Greymon, who is baseline, to the point that the latter doesnt even compare.VindictiveLoser said:
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That key should be the one referring to Greymon X, not MetalGreymon. MetalGreymon is Large Star level. The justification says that X-Antibody versions of digimon are so strong the base forms cannot compare, while MetalGreymon scales above a feat done by Wendigomon.
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Agumon | Agumon X | Greymon (File Island) | Greymon (Folder Continent) | MetalGreymon (File Island) | MetalGreymon (Folder Continent) | SkullGreymon | WarGreymon | WarGreymon X Digimon
High 8-C | High 8-C | High 6-C | High 6-B | At least High 6-B | At least High 4-C | 4-B | 4-B | 4-B | 3-C | At least 3-C
High 8-C | High 8-C | High 6-C | High 6-B | At least High 6-B | At least High 4-C | 4-B | 4-B | 4-B | 3-C | At least 3-C
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...When you realize there are 9 keys name wise but 11 keys stat wise
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Yeah the key structuring on the page seems like maybe as more forms were added the keys weren't updated. It made it much more difficult to determine which forms were meant to adhere to which ratings, but context clues for most sections help a lot. Powers and Abilities however...that's a bit more difficult, as it seems to be missing keys.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
He/Him- 7,236
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It looks like someone forgot to name the X versions of Graymon and MetalGraymon.
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Where is Dragon when you need him?
If I'm not wrong Metalgreymon keys are the "At least High 4-C" for File Island, and both "4-B" for Metal and Skullgreymon respectively
The "At least High 6-B" should be Greymon-X
The "At least High 6-B" should be Greymon-X
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Yeah, methinks Dragon messed up the keys a bit
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If this match can happen with Greymon X then I guess a little information wouldn't hurt.
Grey X is basically just a much stronger Greymon. He should have nearly all the same attacks and abilities as his base form, just with the added stat boost of the X-Antibody. I vaguely recall X Digimon resisting existence erasure but I'm not certain so take that information with a grain of salt. I know they can resist the program of Yggdrasil meant to erase them all, but if that translates to a resistance to the ability in general is something I'm not aware of.
Lorewise they're Digimon that weren't meant to survive the deletion program so it's explicitly stated that Yggdrasil wanted them gone, but they resisted it's effects forcing it to send the RK after all unintended survivors. The profile states that all X-forms have resistance so I suppose we can apply it here, though I doubt it's going to be too useful.
Grey X is basically just a much stronger Greymon. He should have nearly all the same attacks and abilities as his base form, just with the added stat boost of the X-Antibody. I vaguely recall X Digimon resisting existence erasure but I'm not certain so take that information with a grain of salt. I know they can resist the program of Yggdrasil meant to erase them all, but if that translates to a resistance to the ability in general is something I'm not aware of.
Lorewise they're Digimon that weren't meant to survive the deletion program so it's explicitly stated that Yggdrasil wanted them gone, but they resisted it's effects forcing it to send the RK after all unintended survivors. The profile states that all X-forms have resistance so I suppose we can apply it here, though I doubt it's going to be too useful.
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Okay, does he have anything that can get past Rose's High 6-A shield and bubble?
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Isn't that what Overwrite is? I'm not super in the digimon loop, so I'm probably wrong.
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I don't see mention of that specifically on her profile but I'm going to assume that amounts to multi-continental durability. The answer is probably no. Greymon has never been a hax fighter and more often than not relies on beating down enemies with raw power. Strategies aren't out of the question, but he doesn't have anything that bypasses barriers or allows him to bypass durability. He has stat amping with overwrite, which is unreliable for a Digimon like him, or his Acceleration Boost that doubles the power of his next attack. It's not exactly out of the question that he'd eventually break it, but there's no way for me to say he can for sure at the moment.
@Apies overwrite is a passive stat amp that allows Digimon to increase their abilities with strong emotions. I know a bit more about it but it's not super relevant here.
@Apies overwrite is a passive stat amp that allows Digimon to increase their abilities with strong emotions. I know a bit more about it but it's not super relevant here.
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Yes its muldi-continent level durability
Rose should easily outslass him in the skill and strategy department
Rose should easily outslass him in the skill and strategy department
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Yeah that makes it tough to say whether he can break it then. Acceleration Boost alone is a 2x amp, with Overwrite I'd say maybe at best and at worst he still falls short by quite a bit. Any hits he will get should be quite effective thanks to the whole mind/soul damage thing Digimon can do, but getting past the shield during melee combat is his biggest issue.
It's safe to assume if he tried to go for ranged attacks she'd just bubble and wait for him to stop. Seeing that he'd move in for melee while buffing his next attack. I'm running with the assumption that she'll use the other form for combat as she's apparently more of a figher than Steven was, but her defense skill is likely sufficient to block most of his attacks anyway.
As for his other abilities, there's nothing really versatile enough to catch her off guard and nothing powerful enough to bypass the shield so he'd have to resort to tricking or overwhelming her, which will be tough with largely equal stats and attack reflection. His best bet would be if she were to try entering his mind, but that'd leave her body unguarded so her trying this is unlikely.
I'm not entirely sure, but I'm leaning on the side of Greymon losing via getting tired before dealing enough damage to kill her. Dragon might say something different since he probably knows more about Digimon than I do, but that's my take on it.
It's safe to assume if he tried to go for ranged attacks she'd just bubble and wait for him to stop. Seeing that he'd move in for melee while buffing his next attack. I'm running with the assumption that she'll use the other form for combat as she's apparently more of a figher than Steven was, but her defense skill is likely sufficient to block most of his attacks anyway.
As for his other abilities, there's nothing really versatile enough to catch her off guard and nothing powerful enough to bypass the shield so he'd have to resort to tricking or overwhelming her, which will be tough with largely equal stats and attack reflection. His best bet would be if she were to try entering his mind, but that'd leave her body unguarded so her trying this is unlikely.
I'm not entirely sure, but I'm leaning on the side of Greymon losing via getting tired before dealing enough damage to kill her. Dragon might say something different since he probably knows more about Digimon than I do, but that's my take on it.
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Semi on/off topic, for profiles like these (not even my final form), would it be possible to separate the keys into their own tabs like we do for the images. Trying to read some of these is killer on the eyes.
@Vin
How long are you thinking it would take Greymon to wear her down?
@Vin
How long are you thinking it would take Greymon to wear her down?
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Longer than he has, though how long that is exactly I'm not sure. Her durability should be high enough that one or two attacks won't be enough to deal enough damage, and with her shield as an added bonus it becomes even more difficult. If he had any sort of deletion skill he'd be able to bypass the shield in an instant, but Greymon X is more or less a strength fighter. He relies on being stronger than his opponents to overwhelm them with powerful fire blasts and horn/claw attacks. His AP is an unknown amount above the Large Country level of Greymon, but we know it's enough of a boost that a regular Greymon isn't even comparable to Grey X.
Were he able to hit her a few dozen times his ability to attack the mind and soul should be capable of putting her down for good, but I don't see that happening before he runs out of stamina from fighting a mainly defensive fighter.
Keep in mind this analysis of mine is assuming she's mainly going to shield and won't attack much, so if that's not her in-character behaviour the result might change.
Were he able to hit her a few dozen times his ability to attack the mind and soul should be capable of putting her down for good, but I don't see that happening before he runs out of stamina from fighting a mainly defensive fighter.
Keep in mind this analysis of mine is assuming she's mainly going to shield and won't attack much, so if that's not her in-character behaviour the result might change.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
He/Him- 7,236
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Well, Weekly will likely correct me, but I'm pretty sure Rose is a more offensive fighter then her son Steven. Personally, I feel like she'd have to be since she started the war on earth. She's likely very skilled in gureilla warfare, since her army originally was just her and Pearl. The only time we ever see her fighting is in flashbacks, though she did seem like a fan of the old Sword and Board technique.
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Rose is a fairly balanced fighter, not purely offensive but not purely defensive, although highly adaptive and resourceful in combat. She's a tactical genius, having the skill to lead her small ragtag army to victory over the entire force of Homeworld, an entire planet's army that outnumbered them by several hundred to one and was far more technologically advanced, to the point that the combined forces of two Diamonds were forced to flee and even veteran soldiers like Jasper who was quite literally created to be the ultimate quartz warrior that fought against Rose's armies developing a respect for her tactical skill in combat.
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In that case there's a possibility Grey X can win, as his mind and soul damage isn't something she resists judging by her profile meaning he can destroy them both with any attacks, provided he hits her enough. Assuming his AP is somewhat equal to her body's durability it shouldn't take too many direct hits to kill, as he'll also keep buffing himself with Acceleration Boost and very rarely get another buff from Overwrite.
If he were an ancient species like Veedramon Overwrite would be a bigger advantage than it is here, but as far as I know Greymon isn't one of them. Sadly not all overwrites are created equal, though anyone familiar with the RK probably alreadt knows that.
It's actually much tougher to decide here now. Greymon is a bigger target and would have difficulty evading her attacks, but likewise attacking him will leave her more open to counters with his horns, claws, or fire. It's safe to assume he won't attack recklesly upon learning how good she is at guarding and the fact that she does try attacking regularly means he's likely to adapt a more defensive and reactive fighting style. Were it a less intelligent Digimon he'd be more likely to just keep attacking, but Greymon are generally fairly intelligent. He's hardly a genius in any regard but knowing not to attack something he can't damage is a pretty basic strategy so I have no doubt he could formulate such a plan himself.
As for who wins...I'm not sure anymore. It was obvious before, but upon learning my assumption was incorrect it became much harder to judge. Greymon himself shouln't have any massive in-character flaws that she could take advantage of and her strategies in this fight will be more limited by her opponent being something she's never fought before, and lacking the common weaknesses of her primary enemies.
Other than that, speed equalized means neither should be outpacing the other here so following her movements should be relatively simple. If she tries something basic like running around his legs to lose line of sight, he'd just attack the ground with flames to smoke her out or stomp the ground to destabilize and disrupt her footing.
Digimon in general are aware of their ability to affect mind and soul data so he can most likely determine fairly quickly that she has on Digicore, and no natural defenses to that facet of his attacks, and trying to exploit that advantage is something I can picture happening. He won't be ripping her soul out or anything too crazy like that, but his attacks will eventually destroy it completely likely netting him a win.
Yeah I don't know, I'm kinda stumped.
If he were an ancient species like Veedramon Overwrite would be a bigger advantage than it is here, but as far as I know Greymon isn't one of them. Sadly not all overwrites are created equal, though anyone familiar with the RK probably alreadt knows that.
It's actually much tougher to decide here now. Greymon is a bigger target and would have difficulty evading her attacks, but likewise attacking him will leave her more open to counters with his horns, claws, or fire. It's safe to assume he won't attack recklesly upon learning how good she is at guarding and the fact that she does try attacking regularly means he's likely to adapt a more defensive and reactive fighting style. Were it a less intelligent Digimon he'd be more likely to just keep attacking, but Greymon are generally fairly intelligent. He's hardly a genius in any regard but knowing not to attack something he can't damage is a pretty basic strategy so I have no doubt he could formulate such a plan himself.
As for who wins...I'm not sure anymore. It was obvious before, but upon learning my assumption was incorrect it became much harder to judge. Greymon himself shouln't have any massive in-character flaws that she could take advantage of and her strategies in this fight will be more limited by her opponent being something she's never fought before, and lacking the common weaknesses of her primary enemies.
Other than that, speed equalized means neither should be outpacing the other here so following her movements should be relatively simple. If she tries something basic like running around his legs to lose line of sight, he'd just attack the ground with flames to smoke her out or stomp the ground to destabilize and disrupt her footing.
Digimon in general are aware of their ability to affect mind and soul data so he can most likely determine fairly quickly that she has on Digicore, and no natural defenses to that facet of his attacks, and trying to exploit that advantage is something I can picture happening. He won't be ripping her soul out or anything too crazy like that, but his attacks will eventually destroy it completely likely netting him a win.
Yeah I don't know, I'm kinda stumped.
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Actually she does resist it, Gems dont have minds in a conventional sense and they dont have souls at all, theyre essentially AI with their gemstones as their databank and a projected body of light.
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It being an unconventional mind doesn't necessarily protect her from Digimon mind attacks since they're able to interact with data anyway. It's not really attacking the mind as much as it is attacking mind data. The reason it works on non Digimon is because to a Digimon, everything is just another form of data they can affect. If she lacked a mind at all or had some form of advanced firewall akin to Digimon that'd qualify as resistance, but just being an AI shouldn't be enough to protect her from this.
Honestly the most difficult part to determine there is the data being stored in the gemstones, but even then unless the gem is hidden inside her body and protected like a digicore attacking her mind should remain a possibility. Even trying to hide or defend it better would just draw his attention there.
Yeah, that alone shouldn't really be an issue for Greymon X.
Honestly the most difficult part to determine there is the data being stored in the gemstones, but even then unless the gem is hidden inside her body and protected like a digicore attacking her mind should remain a possibility. Even trying to hide or defend it better would just draw his attention there.
Yeah, that alone shouldn't really be an issue for Greymon X.
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Its on her belly button but he's going to have a hell of a time trying to hit it
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True enough, but getting overly defensive of it would be a massive weakness that Greymon X could exploit easily. His ranged attacks also all have decent AoE so in their fight, which should be in mid-range for most of it until she closes the distance, he shouldn't have too much trouble getting a hit or two in. Though, as I said before, just that shouldn't destroy her mind.
I wish I knew more about how their bodies worked, then I might know how exactly the data affecting ability would interact with their unique physiology. Are their minds stored entirely in the gems? Are the minds in the gems the only copies or are they backups for when the body is destroyed? Can the mind data be moved between the gem and hardlight projection? Her ability to astral project suggests data stored in this manner can be moved, but would destroying the projection in that situation be akin to destroying the gem...It's a little interesting, but somehow I doubt the answers are all in the show so I can't know for sure.
Using the astral projection as a starting point, that ability at least implies that mind data stored in gems can be moved or copied to another place, likely at risk of said data. However, if nobody else in the verse could interact with it they'd likely be invincible in such a state to anyone they might try interacting with. In such a case that she tried to enter Greymon's mind, he might actually be capable of destroying the projected mind data...but that's all theoretical. I happen to like thinking about mechanics in Digimon, because they can be so interesting.
Ignore this, it's just my rambling. Lore states that a MetalGreymon is a Greymon that upgraded it's body with robotic parts stolen from Andromon, but the greater size would imply it's an older Greymon, and there was actually an instance of that happening in V-tamer with a Greymon trashed by Neo. It returned after upgrading itself to grow stronger and appeared to be of average Greymon size, which would further imply it didn't take the time necessary to grow to that level naturally. However, in the shows and games that never occurs. A digimon recieves enough data to reach a higher stage and digivolves, ususally after either a long amount of time or getting help from humans providing them with Digisoul. In such a case we see the metal parts appear immediately and the size change happens at the same time. Using the lore as a base, it seems to mean that the changes that happen to previous generations are stored as data for that being to reach with less effort, as though they were getting a NG+ bonus after dying and being reverted to a Digitama. I used to love overthinking this kind of stuff when I was younger.
Sorry about that wall of text, it's not too large but I got a little carried away. I could go on longer but I'll spare you all the bother, I just had to get that one out.
And I'm still not sure who wins, but I'm starting to lean back towards Rose. I don't know, it's kinda jumbled in my head right now so I'm gonna take time to think it over. I'd prefer to be absolutely sure before making a vote.
I wish I knew more about how their bodies worked, then I might know how exactly the data affecting ability would interact with their unique physiology. Are their minds stored entirely in the gems? Are the minds in the gems the only copies or are they backups for when the body is destroyed? Can the mind data be moved between the gem and hardlight projection? Her ability to astral project suggests data stored in this manner can be moved, but would destroying the projection in that situation be akin to destroying the gem...It's a little interesting, but somehow I doubt the answers are all in the show so I can't know for sure.
Using the astral projection as a starting point, that ability at least implies that mind data stored in gems can be moved or copied to another place, likely at risk of said data. However, if nobody else in the verse could interact with it they'd likely be invincible in such a state to anyone they might try interacting with. In such a case that she tried to enter Greymon's mind, he might actually be capable of destroying the projected mind data...but that's all theoretical. I happen to like thinking about mechanics in Digimon, because they can be so interesting.
Ignore this, it's just my rambling. Lore states that a MetalGreymon is a Greymon that upgraded it's body with robotic parts stolen from Andromon, but the greater size would imply it's an older Greymon, and there was actually an instance of that happening in V-tamer with a Greymon trashed by Neo. It returned after upgrading itself to grow stronger and appeared to be of average Greymon size, which would further imply it didn't take the time necessary to grow to that level naturally. However, in the shows and games that never occurs. A digimon recieves enough data to reach a higher stage and digivolves, ususally after either a long amount of time or getting help from humans providing them with Digisoul. In such a case we see the metal parts appear immediately and the size change happens at the same time. Using the lore as a base, it seems to mean that the changes that happen to previous generations are stored as data for that being to reach with less effort, as though they were getting a NG+ bonus after dying and being reverted to a Digitama. I used to love overthinking this kind of stuff when I was younger.
Sorry about that wall of text, it's not too large but I got a little carried away. I could go on longer but I'll spare you all the bother, I just had to get that one out.
And I'm still not sure who wins, but I'm starting to lean back towards Rose. I don't know, it's kinda jumbled in my head right now so I'm gonna take time to think it over. I'd prefer to be absolutely sure before making a vote.
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She can make her shield grow to tens of meters in diameter, and her bubble is able to protect her (Technically steven but she scales) from the AoE of the entire ocean being dropped on her.
Yes, their mind is stored entirely in their gemstone, their physical body does not have an actual brain as they are artificial constructs. The body can be destroyed over and over again and nothing will happen but if their Gem is destroyed their mind is fragmented (Not completely destroyed though as shard still retain part of their mind and even if their gemstone is ground into dust their mind still exists). The part about the Astral Projection thing im not sure of, its still a new concept in the show so we dont know how it works yet so there's no clear answer as of yet.
Rose cant use her astral projection as in leaving her body behind and moving solely as a projection unless she's unconscious, however she is able to sense and attack others on an astral level.
Yes, their mind is stored entirely in their gemstone, their physical body does not have an actual brain as they are artificial constructs. The body can be destroyed over and over again and nothing will happen but if their Gem is destroyed their mind is fragmented (Not completely destroyed though as shard still retain part of their mind and even if their gemstone is ground into dust their mind still exists). The part about the Astral Projection thing im not sure of, its still a new concept in the show so we dont know how it works yet so there's no clear answer as of yet.
Rose cant use her astral projection as in leaving her body behind and moving solely as a projection unless she's unconscious, however she is able to sense and attack others on an astral level.
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Yeah, her shielding ability is the main reason I'm tipping over to her side. No matter how many times I think it over, it seems that Greymon doesn't have the tools to really get around her main abilities. The regenerating from gemstones after dying isn't an issue as he only needs to attack it to destroy the mind data within, but it storing her mind means attacks to the body shouldn't have a direct impact on the mind data. That was his main advantage here and the only realistic way he could win, so without that being as easy it's much harder.
Even with the ability to increase the shield size she won't be able to block every attack, it just means they'll resort to melee even more than I expected before. Disarming won't work since the shield can likely be remade or retrieved easily, and destroying it isn't realistic unless he triggers an insane overwrite which isn't likely. Her limitless stamina means the longer the fight drags on for the more likely she is of winning, and being able to reflect attacks makes it dangerous for Greymon to attack too often.
If I had to guess Greymon's only real way of winning is to try catching her off guard. Being able to double the damage he deals keeps him in the fight since he doesn't need as many hits to win, and he'll be able to deal with the gem regen fairly easily so he doesn't need to worry about that. However, I'm still having trouble ascertaining the victor.
How exactly does she act in combat? More information about her will make the decision easier. I think I know enough about Greymon in this case, but lacking knowledge about Rose is hindering my decision making ability.
Even with the ability to increase the shield size she won't be able to block every attack, it just means they'll resort to melee even more than I expected before. Disarming won't work since the shield can likely be remade or retrieved easily, and destroying it isn't realistic unless he triggers an insane overwrite which isn't likely. Her limitless stamina means the longer the fight drags on for the more likely she is of winning, and being able to reflect attacks makes it dangerous for Greymon to attack too often.
If I had to guess Greymon's only real way of winning is to try catching her off guard. Being able to double the damage he deals keeps him in the fight since he doesn't need as many hits to win, and he'll be able to deal with the gem regen fairly easily so he doesn't need to worry about that. However, I'm still having trouble ascertaining the victor.
How exactly does she act in combat? More information about her will make the decision easier. I think I know enough about Greymon in this case, but lacking knowledge about Rose is hindering my decision making ability.
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