Sanji Raid Suit Revision

[Eseseso]

1. So Sanji is currently scaled to Base King (w/o his sword) in base due to matching his kick. However, he was using the raid suit for this.

The Raid Suit is pretty clearly a power-booster, with one sign of this being how the Germa soldiers were shocked at Base Sanji matching Raid Suit Judge without any Raid Suit of his own.

Also, the Vinsmoke Siblings without the Raid Suits couldn't break free from Perospero's Ice, but with it they could smash Pero's Candy Wall with a combined attack.

Also, Sanji said the Raid Suit had "the power" to help him quickly beat Page One.

Thus, Onigashima Raid Sanji should be "High 6-A, higher with Diable Jambe, even higher with Raid Suit", and Early Wano Sanji would be "Perospero level in base, higher with Diable Jambe, Zoan Tobiroppo level with Raid Suit".

 

[SnookB]

2. On nearly all the profiles with Haoshoku Infusion, the Haoshoku Infusion is viewed as above their Zoan forms (or All-Homies for Big Mom), even though there's not really anything that proves this.

Most of Kaido's Haoshoku Infusion feats come from when he's already Hybrid (so his profile should say "higher with Hybrid + Haoshoku" instead of just saying Haoshoku Infusion), Yamato with hao infusion hurt base Kaido but that's not really above her Zoan forms' power, and BM's only real Hao Infusion feat is matching Kaido's own Hao Infusion when both of them were in base.

Big Mom did OHKO Pageone with hao infusion and no homies. Pretty sure she can stack hao on Napoleon, who is a boost to her AP in turn.
Kaido also used Hao infusion when he smashed Kinemon after knocking Luffy out. It's a boost to their base AP and stacks on their stronger forms.

 

[Eseseso]

Big Mom did OHKO Pageone with hao infusion and no homies. Pretty sure she can stack hao on Napoleon, who is a boost to her AP in turn.
Kaido also used Hao infusion when he smashed Kinemon after knocking Luffy out. It's a boost to their base AP and stacks on their stronger forms.

But we don't know if it is stronger by itself than Zoan forms.

We should at least say "Higher with Zoan Forms + Haoshoku Infusion" or something like that.

 

[SnookB]

But we don't know if it is stronger by itself than Zoan forms.

We should at least say "Higher with Zoan Forms + Haoshoku Infusion" or something like that.

Why the +? He's stronger in zoan, even stronger in hybrid, and far higher with haoshoku amp.
If he uses haoshoku on base then it's his base then far higher with haoshoku.
I think it's just specified that way because haoshoku is an amp that can be stacked on his stronger forms

 

[Eseseso]

Why the +? He's stronger in zoan, even stronger in hybrid, and far higher with haoshoku amp.
If he uses haoshoku on base then it's his base then far higher with haoshoku.
I think it's just specified that way because haoshoku is an amp that can be stacked on his stronger forms

His incapacitation of Luffy with Ragnarok and him badly damaging Zoro and Law were both done with Hybrid and Haoshoku together.

 

[SnookB]

His incapacitation of Luffy with Ragnarok and him badly damaging Zoro and Law were both done with Hybrid and Haoshoku together.

that doesn't mean he can't use hybrid without acoc. His hybrid is stronger than his base, and Acoc buffs it to even greater degrees.

 

[Eseseso]

that doesn't mean he can't use hybrid without acoc. His hybrid is stronger than his base, and Acoc buffs it to even greater degrees.

Yes, but to say he only used Haoshoku Infusion (which on his profile implies he used Base + Infusion on Zoro, Law, and luffy, which is not true) is inaccurate.

What do you think about the raid suit revision?

 

[Eminiteable]

1. So Sanji is currently scaled to Base King (w/o his sword) in base due to matching his kick. However, he was using the raid suit for this.

The Raid Suit is pretty clearly a power-booster, with one sign of this being how the Germa soldiers were shocked at Base Sanji matching Raid Suit Judge without any Raid Suit of his own.

Also, the Vinsmoke Siblings without the Raid Suits couldn't break free from Perospero's Ice, but with it they could smash Pero's Candy Wall with a combined attack.

Also, Sanji said the Raid Suit had "the power" to help him quickly beat Page One.

Thus, Onigashima Sanji should be "High 6-A, higher with Diable Jambe, even higher with Raid Suit", and Early Wano Sanji would be "119.4 gigatons in base, higher with Diable Jambe, 477.6 gigatons with Raid Suit".

Sure.

2. On nearly all the profiles with Haoshoku Infusion, the Haoshoku Infusion is viewed as above their Zoan forms (or All-Homies for Big Mom), even though there's not really anything that proves this.

Most of Kaido's Haoshoku Infusion feats come from when he's already Hybrid (so his profile should say "higher with Hybrid + Haoshoku" instead of just saying Haoshoku Infusion), Yamato with hao infusion hurt base Kaido but that's not really above her Zoan forms' power, and BM's only real Hao Infusion feat is matching Kaido's own Hao Infusion when both of them were in base.

Thus, I feel like a minor rehash of where Hao Infusion stands in the power level of most of the Hao Infusion characters (minus Luffy) could be helpful.

Seperating hao infusion like that is ugly to look at on the profiles and overall redundant.

 

[Nierre]

Definitely agree with the first point about Sanji.

Neutral about Hao.

 

[Eseseso]

Btw, the raid suit revision would nerf Base Sanji to scaling above his previous key since yes he hurt Zoan Page One but that was a surprise attack.

 

[Eseseso]

Sure.

Seperating hao infusion like that is ugly to look at on the profiles and overall redundant.

Definitely agree with the first point about Sanji.

Neutral about Hao.

Added minor third extra revision proposal to OP

 

[Eminiteable]

3. Base Kaido's justification says that he matched Oden blow-for-blow in Base, except IIRC he only fought Oden in Dragon form and only used base to knock Oden out, so this should be changed.

No it shouldn't

 

[Eseseso]

No it shouldn't

Ok nvm. Somehow forgot about that panel.

 

[Eseseso]

Bump

 

[Eseseso]

Ok so Hao point looks like a no but Raid Suit seems like a yes so a few more agreements for that and I'll edit Sanji's page.

 

[Eseseso]

Bump for Raid Suit

 

[Eseseso]

Bump for Raid Suit

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Early Wano Sanji would be "Perospero level in base,

My reaction to this information

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Also, the Vinsmoke Siblings without the Raid Suits couldn't break free from Perospero's Ice, but with it they could smash Pero's Candy Wall with a combined attack.

.. Ice? Didn't know he used Ice.
Besides that typo this sounds good

 

[Eseseso]

BUMP

 

[XDragnoir]

1. So Sanji is currently scaled to Base King (w/o his sword) in base due to matching his kick. However, he was using the raid suit for this.

The Raid Suit is pretty clearly a power-booster, with one sign of this being how the Germa soldiers were shocked at Base Sanji matching Raid Suit Judge without any Raid Suit of his own.

Also, the Vinsmoke Siblings without the Raid Suits couldn't break free from Perospero's Ice, but with it they could smash Pero's Candy Wall with a combined attack.

Also, Sanji said the Raid Suit had "the power" to help him quickly beat Page One.

Thus, Onigashima Raid Sanji should be "High 6-A, higher with Diable Jambe, even higher with Raid Suit", and Early Wano Sanji would be "Perospero level in base, higher with Diable Jambe, Zoan Tobiroppo level with Raid Suit".

That's wrong, the only AP increasing part of the Raid Suit are the speed boosters as we saw during his fight with Paypay (speed amped attack sent P1 flying, non amped didn't anything to him).

Against King there was no sign of the boosters being active.

As for anything else you said:

They were shocked because they didn't know how strong Sanji was, so facing a Germa Suit without a Germa Suit was a crazy good feat.

As you just said, it was a combined attack against 1 wall, we have no idea what a combined attack without the raid suits would result.

Yes it had the power, which he used, and i call that power invisibility + speed boosters.

 

[Eseseso]

That's wrong, the only AP increasing part of the Raid Suit are the speed boosters as we saw during his fight with Paypay (speed amped attack sent P1 flying, non amped didn't anything to him).

Against King there was no sign of the boosters being active.

In the anime IIRC Sanji was shown to use them against King.

 

[XDragnoir]

In the anime IIRC Sanji was shown to use them against King.

In the anime Queen was shown to damage Marco in his base form, if you want to use one we will have to use the other.

As well as Perospero tanking Marco, lol that scene was crazy

 

[Eseseso]

In the anime Queen was shown to damage Marco in his base form,

Technically he just easily blocked Bluebird in base but same thing. Shame it ain't canon.

if you want to use one we will have to use the other.

Oh wait, nvm, was thinking of the wrong part of Sanji vs King. Nvm,even in the anime part of him matching King's kick he used no booster.

As well as Perospero tanking Marco, lol that scene was crazy

If only that were canon

 

[Fireld]

In the anime Queen was shown to damage Marco in his base form, if you want to use one we will have to use the other.

As well as Perospero tanking Marco, lol that scene was crazy

Marco was pretty tired atm. IIRC that feat happen after the flames he was sharing with the alliance ran out.

Perospero blocked an casual kick rather than "tanked" it. Besides Marco was questioning him, so it would be dumb for Marco to require info from sb while at the same time hitting with the power to KO them.

Technically he just easily blocked Bluebird in base but same thing. Shame it ain't canon.
If only that were canon

Marco wasn't at fullpower in either of these scenes, so would it change that much?

 

[Eseseso]

Marco was pretty tired atm. IIRC that feat happen after the flames he was sharing with the alliance ran out.

Fair, though Marco seemed pretty pissed when he attacked Queen with that Bluebird

Perospero blocked an casual kick rather than "tanked" it. Besides Marco was questioning him, so it would be dumb for Marco to require info from sb while at the same time hitting with the power to KO them.

Makes sense.

Marco wasn't at fullpower in either of these scenes, so would it change that much?

Maybe.

 

[Eminiteable]

In the anime Queen was shown to damage Marco in his base form, if you want to use one we will have to use the other.

As well as Perospero tanking Marco, lol that scene was crazy

Anime is only considered secondary canon for scenes that happened in the manga:

we've decided to take the anime as canon in the areas where it perfectly or similarly represents the manga, and the scenes not shown in the manga that are represented in the anime will be deemed as filler.

 

[XDragnoir]

Anime is only considered secondary canon for scenes that happened in the manga:

I know, the problem is that he was taking Sanji's filler scenes as proof.

 

[Eseseso]

I know, the problem is that he was taking Sanji's filler scenes as proof.

I was thinking of the wrong anime scene for the Raid Suit, you were right.

 

[Fireld]

Fair, though Marco seemed pretty pissed when he attacked Queen with that Bluebird

True, but that doesn't take away from from his fatigue & injuries. He was already tiring in previous episode.